The rise and fall of The SNP.

[Салатные палочки]

20 minutes ago, Natural Orders said:

why not

she has done a decent job

 

Will you be clapping? 

Will you be wearing a facemask? 

What's the parking like? 

Will there be a pub open? 

[Cade]

If some people want to celebrate her 50th, that's up to them.

Some people chose to celebrate Boris' 6th child as if it was the 2nd coming of Christ and that was also up to them.

 

It's all very cringey.

 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

30 minutes ago, Salad Fingers said:

 

Will you be clapping? 

Will you be wearing a facemask? 

What's the parking like? 

Will there be a pub open? 

Yes probably - why not

 

unless I’m in a shop or on public transport then no

 

dont act like a child

 

irrelevant  

[Nucky Thompson]

I never clapped for Bojo either.

As somebody already posted, why would anyone clap appreciation for any politician.

 

Cringey and weird, but it's the age of social media when people are clapping nearly every week at the football for fans who have passed away

[Don Dan]

azithromycin + ceftriaxone.  👏🏼👏🏼😷

[Des Lynam]

Clap and wave your wee flags. 
 

Roll up, roll up next stop Pyongyang. 
 

 

[Jeff]

Was Sunday there was it not?

[graygo]

1 hour ago, Natural Orders said:

why not

she has done a decent job

 

Ever seen her wearing a mask? As far as I can tell she has worn one once, selfish twit that she is.

[AlimOzturk]

Yeah naw. 
 

 

[The Natural Order]

Natzis more likely getting clap from her than clapping for her.

[ri Alban]

[Dawnrazor]

16 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Got your face paint ready?!

[ri Alban]

Just now, Dawnrazor said:

Got your face paint ready?!

[Dawnrazor]

3 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

👍

[jake]

7 hours ago, Hugh Phamism said:

 

Don't think so. Maybe some gas lines connecting to England, but the Forties line ends at Grangemouth. 

 

 

6 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

As far as I know this is correct, Grangemouth is the end point for that line. There are other end points for North Sea oil but not via Grangemouth.

 

Thanks lads.

Every day a school day .

I worked around Falkirk years ago and there was certain exclusion zones to avoid pipelines that ran from Grangemouth .

So not sure what was being carried .

 

Anyway happy to be corrected .

😄

Again 

[Dawnrazor]

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/18578777.thomas-kerr-latest-resignation-councillor-snp-group-sends-clear-message/?ref=fbshr

[Unknown user]

9 hours ago, jake said:

 

Thanks lads.

Every day a school day .

I worked around Falkirk years ago and there was certain exclusion zones to avoid pipelines that ran from Grangemouth .

So not sure what was being carried .

 

Anyway happy to be corrected .

😄

Again 

I'm pretty sure we send north sea gas down south via pipeline, but I don't know if that's via Grangemouth.

 

I lived in the G for a while last year while waiting for this place, I think the exclusion zones are more to do with potential leaks and explosions, there's a LOT of petrochemical refinery stuff going on there. FWIW Grangemouth doesn't get a great press as a place to live but I quite liked it apart from the utter reek and the vague feeling of evil at the edge of town.

[ri Alban]

7 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/18578777.thomas-kerr-latest-resignation-councillor-snp-group-sends-clear-message/?ref=fbshr

There are some career politicians in Westminster, anaw. Some are far too cosy with what they have and know an SNP ticket is easy money. 

 

The way I see it, they shouldn't be in the SNP for power, they should be achieving independence.  Holyrood success is too comfortable to let go for some and sometimes I think Nicola Sturgeon likes being FM too much, but I'll give her a chance to prove me wrong by the next Scottish Parliament election and implementation of Scotref. For me  she's had enough mandates, but I suppose a majority win at Holyrood is either terms for a referendum, (But if WM refuse) or a UDI could be sought with a big win. 

 

As for Glasgow council, Renfrewshire isn't any better. 

Edited July 14, 2020 by ri Alban

[Marty Byrde]

10 hours ago, Smithee said:

I'm pretty sure we send north sea gas down south via pipeline, but I don't know if that's via Grangemouth.

 

I lived in the G for a while last year while waiting for this place, I think the exclusion zones are more to do with potential leaks and explosions, there's a LOT of petrochemical refinery stuff going on there. FWIW Grangemouth doesn't get a great press as a place to live but I quite liked it apart from the utter reek and the vague feeling of evil at the edge of town.

 

It's straight to Teeside via the CATS pipeline. There's also a pipeline from UK/Norway fields for oil there too.

 

It's a question of the future rather than the past for me. The image before includes a few platforms that no longer produce (BP Miller, Brae Bravo, Ninian North) and one's that don't have that long to go but aren't listed (Tartan Alpha, Piper Bravo) plus more. One or two new one's missing too.

 

We need a better discussion on how important this industry will be in 10, 20, 30 year's because the glory day's are long gone. For example, one older platform I was on recently pumped on average 1200 barrells  per day so at the oil price now that make's £51000 a day. That's not much when you factor in wages etc and flights mon-fri.

 

 

There's no argument it's in decline and the moment has passed so to speak.

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Marty Byrde

[Frank]

 

Gorgie, 8pm. 

[AlphonseCapone]

When does the fall start? 

[jake]

On 14/07/2020 at 04:07, Smithee said:

I'm pretty sure we send north sea gas down south via pipeline, but I don't know if that's via Grangemouth.

 

I lived in the G for a while last year while waiting for this place, I think the exclusion zones are more to do with potential leaks and explosions, there's a LOT of petrochemical refinery stuff going on there. FWIW Grangemouth doesn't get a great press as a place to live but I quite liked it apart from the utter reek and the vague feeling of evil at the edge of town.

 

On 14/07/2020 at 14:20, Marty Byrde said:

 

It's straight to Teeside via the CATS pipeline. There's also a pipeline from UK/Norway fields for oil there too.

 

It's a question of the future rather than the past for me. The image before includes a few platforms that no longer produce (BP Miller, Brae Bravo, Ninian North) and one's that don't have that long to go but aren't listed (Tartan Alpha, Piper Bravo) plus more. One or two new one's missing too.

 

We need a better discussion on how important this industry will be in 10, 20, 30 year's because the glory day's are long gone. For example, one older platform I was on recently pumped on average 1200 barrells  per day so at the oil price now that make's £51000 a day. That's not much when you factor in wages etc and flights mon-fri.

 

 

There's no argument it's in decline and the moment has passed so to speak.

 

So it's fair to say the piping of any resource is not only viable but doable .

 

Thanks for the info.

 

[Unknown user]

4 hours ago, jake said:

 

So it's fair to say the piping of any resource is not only viable but doable .

 

Thanks for the info.

 

Indeed. I'd also add that it's not true that Scotland ran out of water during that drought BJ mentioned, we ran out of infrastructure  

[manaliveits105]

10 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said:

When does the fall start? 

started no one clapped for Krankie 

[manaliveits105]

On 13/07/2020 at 21:28, Dawnrazor said:

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/18578777.thomas-kerr-latest-resignation-councillor-snp-group-sends-clear-message/?ref=fbshr

Cracks appearing 

( the nick of the leader of the weeg btw)

[AlphonseCapone]

30 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

started no one clapped for Krankie 

 

Glad that's keeping you going. Must be difficult times for you just now;

 

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/john-curtice-yes-side-favourites-win-scottish-independence-referendum-first-time-ever-2917520

 

 

[manaliveits105]

Russian involvement in Scottish Independence campaign - probably explains recent poll 

 

 

Salmond with Russian TV slot

Salmonds replacement Agent Caviare  - Ms Sturgeon - coincidence I think not 

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

Russian involvement in Scottish Independence campaign - probably explains recent poll 

 

 

Salmond with Russian TV slot

Salmonds replacement Agent Caviare  - Ms Sturgeon - coincidence I think not 

If the Russians have meddled in it then surely it must be re-run? 
Only fair🤷🏽‍♂️

[Alan_R]

On 08/07/2020 at 22:54, hmfcbilly said:

The 3 examples are only of benefit if you use or qualify for them. Free prescriptions great if you have ongoing health issues but if you have a virus or infection surely it would save a decent sum of money if we still paid for the odd antibiotic? Free bus pass from 60 is a nice perk but my understanding is folk in Wales (although the Welsh plan to increase the age) and NI also get free bus travel at 60 and even londoners get free tube and bus travel from 60 too. As for free university, thats nice too but what percentage of people actually benefit from that? Also, I struggle to understand how every EU citizen gets free University education if they come to study in Scotland but students from NI, England and Wales have to pay🤷‍♂️

 

I'm no fan of Boris Johnson and I think he has handled this whole pandemic terribly and almost criminal at times.  I am also open minded when it comes to Independence but I think all too often some folk focus too much solely on getting Independence rather than what we (Scotland) would do with it if it became a reality. 

 

I like your last point about the sovereign energy fund. We have a lot of natural resources that, if managed correctly, could be a good source of income for a Scottish economy 

 

For me that part is very simple. It would be for us to decide. In a nutshell its a matter of self determination. It only even becomes and argument if you believe boris and co are better at deciding the needs of the scottish people or carrying out or wishes. Which has been repeatedly shown is not the case.

[jb102]

On 19/07/2020 at 21:28, jake said:

 

So it's fair to say the piping of any resource is not only viable but doable .

 

Thanks for the info.

 

The CATS pipeline runs through my property.I was contacted recently concerning the installation of another pipeline following the same route.There was also discussion a few years ago of a large scale supply from the CATS to Cockenzie power station for its conversion from coal to gas.Sadly Cockenzie was closed and demolished.

Viable and doable and already planned.

[manaliveits105]

Nicky wearing a red suit today 

[Roxy Hearts]

3 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Nicky wearing a red suit today 

How many join the dot books have you completed during lockdown! Give it a rest. 

[Space Mackerel]

8 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Russian involvement in Scottish Independence campaign - probably explains recent poll 

 

 

Salmond with Russian TV slot

Salmonds replacement Agent Caviare  - Ms Sturgeon - coincidence I think not 

There's news management, and then there's a transparently desperate attempt at distraction. The headline in the Daily Telegraph on the day that the long delayed report into Russian interference in British politics is an example of the latter. According to the in-house newspaper of the Conservatives' Boris Johnson fan-club, the big take away from the Russian meddling report is that Vladimir Putin tried to influence the result of the Scottish referendum. This is a bit like claiming that when you got your take away order of lamb bhuna, chicken korma, pilau rice, chicken pakora, onion bhajis, two peshwari nan, and some fried chicken and chips for your cousin who's not that keen on Indian food that the really, *really*, important bit is the onion relish that came with the poppadums that always goes into the bin uneaten.

Of course we all know that the Russians attempted to meddle in the Scottish referendum. We've known that for years, and we've known it because during the campaign David Cameron himself asked Vladimir Putin to get involved. In January 2014 the Russian news agency Itar-Tass revealed that Cameron's office had contacted Putin in order to inform the Russian leader that the British were "extremely interested" in getting support from Russia in the referendum. https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13140055.camerons-plea-to-putin-help-me-stop-salmond/

Downing Street denied the claims, but their denials would have had more credibility were it for for the fact that the British state had also appealed to many other governments for their help in defeating Scottish independence. Just a month after the Russian news agency revealed that Cameron had asked Putin for help, a newspaper in Tenerife in Spain published a letter from the British Embassy asking the press in Spain to publish reports critical of Scottish independence. It was a part of a concerted campaign by the British foreign office to whip up opposition to Scottish independence around the world. https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13144836.foreign-office-caught-asking-spanish-press-to-undermine-scottish-independence/

Then there was the incident back in 2012 when representatives of the Spanish Partido Popular met with the Conservatives, including Ruth Davidson, at their conference in Birmingham in order to hammer out an anti-independence European alliance of centre right parties. https://www.thenational.scot/politics/15211795.wee-ginger-dug-no-secret-anti-independence-eu-support-for-the-tories-this-time/ There was a concerted campaign from European figures on the centre right, associated with the British Conservatives, to undermine the Scottish independence campaign. This foreign interference came with the connivance and encouragement of the Conservatives and the British nationalist parties.

Despite Scotland being assured by Westminster that ours was a Scottish election which would be decided by the people of Scotland, there was massive interference in the referendum campaign by the British state, the British media, and the BBC. To pick just one example, there was the huge publicity given to the suspiciously well funded, ahem, 'grassroots' anti-independence organisation Vote No Borders. This campaign vehicle was given headline news on the BBC, yet that same BBC failed throughout the entire campaign to report on any genuine grassroots intiative from the Yes side. There was meddling aplenty in the Scottish referendum. It's just that the vast majority of it came from supporters of the No campaign.

Of course if the sole content of the report into Russian meddling in British politics was that Vladimir Putin had tried to influence the outcome of the Scottish referendum, the report would have been published the week after it was completed. The Johnson government would not have made such strenuous efforts to try and prevent it ever seeing the light of day.

The report does contain some mention of the Scottish referendum campaign, but what it says is so heavily redacted that it doesn't tell us anything useful. There's just one paragraph in the 50 page report about the Scottish referendum and it refers solely to information which is already in the public domain. This would appear to be an article by David Leask which was published in the Herald which claimed to identify a number of Scottish Twitter accounts as belonging to pro-Russian bots and trolls. This article was based on a single report by a certain Ben Nimmo, whom Craig Murray identifies as being associated with Integrity Initiative The Herald story would appear to be the full extent of claims of Russian meddling in a pro-indy direction in the independence referendum. https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16601798.meet-the-mcbots-how-scottish-cyber-activists-try-to-game-twitter/

It's the rest of the report and what it has to say about the British Government's reaction to alleged Russian meddling in the 2016 EU referendum that is so damning. There is considerable evidence that Russia tried to influence the EU referendum in order to produce a pro-Brexit result. The Intelligence and Security Committee notes that academic and other studies have pointed to the preponderance of pro-Brexit stories on Russian news outlets, and reports of the use of bots and trolls on social media attempting to influence the debate in a pro-Brexit direction. It is widely believed that Brexit serves the wider interests of the Russian state by creating uncertainty and instability in Europe. Despite this, the British Government has refused to investigate and still refuses to investigate any allegation of Russian interference.

Last night on Sky News the arch-Brexiteer Clare Fox said how pleased she was that the report had not found evidence of Russian interference in the EU referendum, but what she either didn't know or didn't say was that the only reason there's no evidence of Russian interference is because the British Government has refused to look for any. Today we have learned that the British Government's refusal to publish the report before last December's election was based on a lie. The only reason that the report was witheld was because it was politically damaging to the Conservatives.

The British state wants us to believe that the Russians tried to influence the outcome of the Scottish referendum but there's no reason to worry our pretty little heads about Kremlin involvement in the EU referendum. We now learn that the British Government has refused to investigate Russian meddling in the EU referendum, and that it continues to reject calls for a proper enquiry.

According to Stewart Hosie, the SNP MP who is one of the committee members on the Intelligence and Security Committee responsible for the report, the UK Government has actively avoided looking for evidence of Russian involvement. He said that the British Government didn't know if the Russians had meddled in the EU referendum, because it didn't want to know. The British Government has refused to carry out any assessment into Russian meddling in 2016's EU referendum. The report notes "[Committee members] have not been provided with any post-referendum assessment of Russian attempts at interference ... This situation is in stark contrast to the US handling of allegations of Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election, where an intelligence community assessment was produced within two months of the vote, with an unclassified summary being made public."

This is of course giving the Kremlin carte-blanche to do it again. We can only come to the conclusion that this is because when Russian meddling results in an outcome that's favourable to Johnson and the Brextremist Conservatives, he's actually rather keen on it. Just as he's rather keen on the Conservative party accepting large donations from shady Russian oligarchs who have links to Vladimir Putin. London has become a laundromat for dirty Russian money. Naturally the Conservatives don't want any investigations into that. It's what they plan basing the British economy on post-Brexit.

A government which refuses to investigate serious and credible allegations of foreign interference in the exercise of democracy is a government which has abandoned any pretence of accountability. The British Government stands unmasked as a band of shameless opportunists who have no respect for democracy. This report has revealed the moral bankruptcy of the British Conservatives. We now know that it's only with independence that Scotland can enjoy democracy and accountable governance. Far from undermining the reasons for Scottish independence, this report has only reinforced them.

[jack D and coke]

56 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

How many join the dot books have you completed during lockdown! Give it a rest. 

It’s clear he thinks he can troll the threads but it’s poor fare tbh. Hasn’t ever made a point, not even once that isn’t uninformed and utterly baseless drivel on the subject. 
Voted Yes apparently too  

Would love to hear his journey from Yes to No. 

48 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

There's news management, and then there's a transparently desperate attempt at distraction. The headline in the Daily Telegraph on the day that the long delayed report into Russian interference in British politics is an example of the latter. According to the in-house newspaper of the Conservatives' Boris Johnson fan-club, the big take away from the Russian meddling report is that Vladimir Putin tried to influence the result of the Scottish referendum. This is a bit like claiming that when you got your take away order of lamb bhuna, chicken korma, pilau rice, chicken pakora, onion bhajis, two peshwari nan, and some fried chicken and chips for your cousin who's not that keen on Indian food that the really, *really*, important bit is the onion relish that came with the poppadums that always goes into the bin uneaten.

Of course we all know that the Russians attempted to meddle in the Scottish referendum. We've known that for years, and we've known it because during the campaign David Cameron himself asked Vladimir Putin to get involved. In January 2014 the Russian news agency Itar-Tass revealed that Cameron's office had contacted Putin in order to inform the Russian leader that the British were "extremely interested" in getting support from Russia in the referendum. https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13140055.camerons-plea-to-putin-help-me-stop-salmond/

Downing Street denied the claims, but their denials would have had more credibility were it for for the fact that the British state had also appealed to many other governments for their help in defeating Scottish independence. Just a month after the Russian news agency revealed that Cameron had asked Putin for help, a newspaper in Tenerife in Spain published a letter from the British Embassy asking the press in Spain to publish reports critical of Scottish independence. It was a part of a concerted campaign by the British foreign office to whip up opposition to Scottish independence around the world. https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13144836.foreign-office-caught-asking-spanish-press-to-undermine-scottish-independence/

Then there was the incident back in 2012 when representatives of the Spanish Partido Popular met with the Conservatives, including Ruth Davidson, at their conference in Birmingham in order to hammer out an anti-independence European alliance of centre right parties. https://www.thenational.scot/politics/15211795.wee-ginger-dug-no-secret-anti-independence-eu-support-for-the-tories-this-time/ There was a concerted campaign from European figures on the centre right, associated with the British Conservatives, to undermine the Scottish independence campaign. This foreign interference came with the connivance and encouragement of the Conservatives and the British nationalist parties.

Despite Scotland being assured by Westminster that ours was a Scottish election which would be decided by the people of Scotland, there was massive interference in the referendum campaign by the British state, the British media, and the BBC. To pick just one example, there was the huge publicity given to the suspiciously well funded, ahem, 'grassroots' anti-independence organisation Vote No Borders. This campaign vehicle was given headline news on the BBC, yet that same BBC failed throughout the entire campaign to report on any genuine grassroots intiative from the Yes side. There was meddling aplenty in the Scottish referendum. It's just that the vast majority of it came from supporters of the No campaign.

Of course if the sole content of the report into Russian meddling in British politics was that Vladimir Putin had tried to influence the outcome of the Scottish referendum, the report would have been published the week after it was completed. The Johnson government would not have made such strenuous efforts to try and prevent it ever seeing the light of day.

The report does contain some mention of the Scottish referendum campaign, but what it says is so heavily redacted that it doesn't tell us anything useful. There's just one paragraph in the 50 page report about the Scottish referendum and it refers solely to information which is already in the public domain. This would appear to be an article by David Leask which was published in the Herald which claimed to identify a number of Scottish Twitter accounts as belonging to pro-Russian bots and trolls. This article was based on a single report by a certain Ben Nimmo, whom Craig Murray identifies as being associated with Integrity Initiative The Herald story would appear to be the full extent of claims of Russian meddling in a pro-indy direction in the independence referendum. https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16601798.meet-the-mcbots-how-scottish-cyber-activists-try-to-game-twitter/

It's the rest of the report and what it has to say about the British Government's reaction to alleged Russian meddling in the 2016 EU referendum that is so damning. There is considerable evidence that Russia tried to influence the EU referendum in order to produce a pro-Brexit result. The Intelligence and Security Committee notes that academic and other studies have pointed to the preponderance of pro-Brexit stories on Russian news outlets, and reports of the use of bots and trolls on social media attempting to influence the debate in a pro-Brexit direction. It is widely believed that Brexit serves the wider interests of the Russian state by creating uncertainty and instability in Europe. Despite this, the British Government has refused to investigate and still refuses to investigate any allegation of Russian interference.

Last night on Sky News the arch-Brexiteer Clare Fox said how pleased she was that the report had not found evidence of Russian interference in the EU referendum, but what she either didn't know or didn't say was that the only reason there's no evidence of Russian interference is because the British Government has refused to look for any. Today we have learned that the British Government's refusal to publish the report before last December's election was based on a lie. The only reason that the report was witheld was because it was politically damaging to the Conservatives.

The British state wants us to believe that the Russians tried to influence the outcome of the Scottish referendum but there's no reason to worry our pretty little heads about Kremlin involvement in the EU referendum. We now learn that the British Government has refused to investigate Russian meddling in the EU referendum, and that it continues to reject calls for a proper enquiry.

According to Stewart Hosie, the SNP MP who is one of the committee members on the Intelligence and Security Committee responsible for the report, the UK Government has actively avoided looking for evidence of Russian involvement. He said that the British Government didn't know if the Russians had meddled in the EU referendum, because it didn't want to know. The British Government has refused to carry out any assessment into Russian meddling in 2016's EU referendum. The report notes "[Committee members] have not been provided with any post-referendum assessment of Russian attempts at interference ... This situation is in stark contrast to the US handling of allegations of Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election, where an intelligence community assessment was produced within two months of the vote, with an unclassified summary being made public."

This is of course giving the Kremlin carte-blanche to do it again. We can only come to the conclusion that this is because when Russian meddling results in an outcome that's favourable to Johnson and the Brextremist Conservatives, he's actually rather keen on it. Just as he's rather keen on the Conservative party accepting large donations from shady Russian oligarchs who have links to Vladimir Putin. London has become a laundromat for dirty Russian money. Naturally the Conservatives don't want any investigations into that. It's what they plan basing the British economy on post-Brexit.

A government which refuses to investigate serious and credible allegations of foreign interference in the exercise of democracy is a government which has abandoned any pretence of accountability. The British Government stands unmasked as a band of shameless opportunists who have no respect for democracy. This report has revealed the moral bankruptcy of the British Conservatives. We now know that it's only with independence that Scotland can enjoy democracy and accountable governance. Far from undermining the reasons for Scottish independence, this report has only reinforced them.

Don’t forget Cameron asking Barack to get involved too. 

Got that Sir Ian Wood to tell us the oil was aw running oot tae. 
They were asking all and sundry to tell us how shite things would be. 

Edited July 21, 2020 by jack D and coke

[Marty Byrde]

19 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

It’s clear he thinks he can troll the threads but it’s poor fare tbh. Hasn’t ever made a point, not even once that isn’t uninformed and utterly baseless drivel on the subject. 
Voted Yes apparently too  

Would love to hear his journey from Yes to No. 

Don’t forget Cameron asking Barack to get involved too. 

Got that Sir Ian Wood to tell us the oil was aw running oot tae. 
They were asking all and sundry to tell us how shite things would be. 

 

How do you think we'd have handled dealing with Covid and the economic shock born from that with our deficit outside the EU and UK?

 

I'm personally glad we are part of the UK right now.

[hmfcbilly]

6 hours ago, Alan_R said:

 

For me that part is very simple. It would be for us to decide. In a nutshell its a matter of self determination. It only even becomes and argument if you believe boris and co are better at deciding the needs of the scottish people or carrying out or wishes. Which has been repeatedly shown is not the case.

Certainly wouldn't disagree with you on the part about Boris Alan.  This whole pandemic has shown him up to be totally incompetent. Infact, his whole handling of the situation has strengthened the SNP'S case for  independence without little effort on their part. Boris Johnson is a man who appears to crave adulation but, when it comes to getting things done competently he hasn't got a bloody clue.  

[jack D and coke]

49 minutes ago, Marty Byrde said:

 

How do you think we'd have handled dealing with Covid and the economic shock born from that with our deficit outside the EU and UK?

 

I'm personally glad we are part of the UK right now.

I have no idea. I certainly won’t criticise the UK governments handling of it by way of looking after us. It is borrowing at the end of the day though and had we been indy it’s pure speculation one way and the other how we might’ve handled it. Other countries seem to have managed ok but I see it’s now another stick to beat Scotland with that somehow we’d have collapsed again. If independent we likely wouldn’t be outside the EU either so again difficult to say. 
We are a country with more resources than most, blow Ireland for example out the water yet their economy is one third larger than ours. We have a bigger population and a younger population too. 
I’m not sure what exactly makes the Scottish people feel so inferior to others nations. Similar sized nations in the eu are pretty much all wealthier than us.
We’d collapse without England though. 

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by jack D and coke

[manaliveits105]

The snp lied to us in 2014 we would be self sufficient within 3 years cos we had oil

- we would not have been - don’t worry about the currency - they still don’t know what to use

how will we reduce our deficit to meet EU requirements - we wouldn’t for many years

just 3 of the lies not to mention labelling our senior citizens many of whom fought in wars as auld nawbags

Jimmy Krankie and her crew have done nothing to change me back to a da comrades

 

[Marty Byrde]

14 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I have no idea. I certainly won’t criticise the UK governments handling of it by way of looking after us. It is borrowing at the end of the day though and had we been indy it’s pure speculation one way and the other how we might’ve handled it. Other countries seem to have managed ok but I see it’s now another stick to beat Scotland with that somehow we’d have collapsed again. If independent we likely wouldn’t be outside the EU either so again difficult to say. 
We are a country with more resources than most, blow Ireland for example out the water yet they’re economy is one third larger than ours. We have a bigger population and a younger population too. 
I’m not sure what exactly makes the Scottish people feel so inferior to others nations. Similar sized nations in the eu are pretty much all wealthier than us.
We’d collapse without England though. 

 

 

Six year's after Indy and the economic damage from that IMO, outside the EU (no maybe about it) and the UK while having more punitive borrowing costs (What currency?) as we are a new nation so to speak, then lockdown hits and huge unemployment to come.

 

Yep, I'm thankful we voted No in 2014 and so should you be.

 

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by Marty Byrde

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, Marty Byrde said:

 

Six year's after Indy and the economic damage from that IMO, outside the EU (no maybe about it) and the UK while having more punitive borrowing costs as we are a new nation so to speak, then lockdown hits and huge unemployment to come.

 

Yep, I'm thankful we voted No in 2014.

 

 

You’re entitled to your opinion mate. None of that is fact though. 

Edited July 21, 2020 by jack D and coke

[Justin Z]

6 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

You’re entitled to your opinion mate. None of that is fact though. 

 

Spot on, at least partially and quite possibly entirely counterfactual.

[Roxy Hearts]

4 minutes ago, Marty Byrde said:

 

Six year's after Indy and the economic damage from that IMO, outside the EU (no maybe about it) and the UK while having more punitive borrowing costs (What currency?) as we are a new nation so to speak, then lockdown hits and huge unemployment to come.

 

Yep, I'm thankful we voted No in 2014 and so should you be.

 

 

I'm sure every country would love to be governed by London and their generosity! They are all in thrall to their political nous. Ireland can't wait to get back! Scotland could borrow with all its assets and resources if necessary. EU happy to include Scotland so I'm sure they are aware of our economic power. 

 

I'm not thankful we voted No. We're being held back for the benefit of Westminster. 

[Unknown user]

On 20/07/2020 at 08:23, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Glad that's keeping you going. Must be difficult times for you just now;

 

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/john-curtice-yes-side-favourites-win-scottish-independence-referendum-first-time-ever-2917520

 

 

I've never understood why Scotland must be run at break even at all times while the same people never say anything about massive Westminster debt. Is it only bad if it's Scottish?

 

The last I saw, on average each household in Britain paid an average of around £2,000 per year in taxes to finance the interest on our borrowings, although that was based on 900 billion of debt and its doubled since then. 

 

1.8 trillion pounds of debt.

£1,800,000,000,000+ and growing.

[Justin Z]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I've never understood why Scotland must be run at break even at all times while the same people never say anything about massive Westminster debt. Is it only bad if it's Scottish?

 

The last I saw, on average each household in Britain paid an average of around £2,000 per year in taxes to finance the interest on our borrowings, although that was based on 900 billion of debt and its doubled since then. 

 

1.8 trillion pounds of debt.

£1,800,000,000,000+ and growing.

 

Plus, every sovereign state (or union) has the power to print money. What your numbers reflect is a lack of political will. Governments would rather sacrifice thousands of pounds of each household's money per year than pursue monetary policy that would pay the interest and/or debt off through sustainable increases in the money supply.

[jake]

1 hour ago, Marty Byrde said:

 

How do you think we'd have handled dealing with Covid and the economic shock born from that with our deficit outside the EU and UK?

 

I'm personally glad we are part of the UK right now.

Coped like any other first world economic nation.

Be glad all you want but let's not pretend Scotland isnt economically viable without England .

 

[jack D and coke]

38 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Spot on, at least partially and quite possibly entirely counterfactual.

It used to make me angry that every single conversation about Scotland, it’s how quickly we’d literally fall apart if not in the union. I

21 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Plus, every sovereign state (or union) has the power to print money. What your numbers reflect is a lack of political will. Governments would rather sacrifice thousands of pounds of each household's money per year than pursue monetary policy that would pay the interest and/or debt off through sustainable increases in the money supply.

The biggest gripe I have is why they are allowed to go on like a deficit is a terrible thing. You actually need one, this isn’t the same as running a household budget. A surplus is a government taking money out of their economy a deficit is a government investing yet this is allowed to go unchallenged and actually used as a stick to beat us. 
Do they believe the UK is ever paying that deficit back? Look at America’s debt! It’s ****ing telephone numbers  
https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/14011/debt/effects-of-a-budget-surplus/

Edited July 21, 2020 by jack D and coke

[Roxy Hearts]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

It used to make me angry that every single conversation about Scotland, it’s how quickly we’d literally fall apart if not in the union. I

The biggest gripe I have is why they are allowed to go on like a deficit is a terrible thing. You actually need one, this isn’t the same as running a household budget. A surplus is a government taking money out of their economy a deficit is a government investing yet this is allowed to go unchallenged and actually used as a stick to beat us. 
Do they believe the UK is ever paying that deficit back? Look at America’s debt! 
https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/14011/debt/effects-of-a-budget-surplus/

They use everything to beat Scotland with but never question Westminster for anything! Debt, deficit, assets, resources etc. It's how we best manage it all and surely that's ourselves. 

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said:

They use everything to beat Scotland with but never question Westminster for anything! Debt, deficit, assets, resources etc. It's how we best manage it all and surely that's ourselves. 

True dat👍🏼

[Unknown user]

33 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

They use everything to beat Scotland with but never question Westminster for anything! Debt, deficit, assets, resources etc. It's how we best manage it all and surely that's ourselves. 

Kens the score

[Unknown user]

52 minutes ago, jake said:

Coped like any other first world economic nation.

Be glad all you want but let's not pretend Scotland isnt economically viable without England .

 

Too poor, too weak, too stupid