Stendel has heard too many excuses

[Whatever]

3 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

In the league we are averaging the same number of goals a game under Stendel as we were before he arrived this season. But maybe that stat is utter nonsense too.

How many of they games were during the first 3 week period where he was assessing the squad that ***** Levein had left him?

 

It would take (at best) an agenda driven person to argue the point that we aren’t currently scoring and creating more than we did under Levein.

 

 

[Whatever]

4 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Yeah it is. Utter shite. You could see the players weren’t on board the first 3 or 4 games which were just a continuation of our goal drought. They then started to ‘get it’ against Aberdeen and have scored in every game since bar Celtic away. Stats without context are pretty misleading. 

Yeah. That ⬆️

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, Whatever said:

How many of they games were during the first 3 week period where he was assessing the squad that ***** Levein had left him?

 

It would take (at best) an agenda driven person to argue the point that we aren’t currently scoring and creating more than we did under Levein.

 

 

Exactly. If Pereia’s feeble form hadn’t completely collapsed and the defence, as a whole, hadn’t massively underperformed we wouldn’t even be having this conversation. These things have happened and DS needs to get it sorted sharpish. 

[Bongo 1874]

7 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Yeah it is. Utter shite. You could see the players weren’t on board the first 3 or 4 games which were just a continuation of our goal drought. They then started to ‘get it’ against Aberdeen and have scored in every game since bar Celtic away. Stats without context are pretty misleading. 

 

3 minutes ago, Whatever said:

How many of they games were during the first 3 week period where he was assessing the squad that ***** Levein had left him?

 

It would take (at best) an agenda driven person to argue the point that we aren’t currently scoring and creating more than we did under Levein.

 

 

👏👏👏👍. 

[Saint Jambo]

10 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Yeah it is. Utter shite. You could see the players weren’t on board the first 3 or 4 games which were just a continuation of our goal drought. They then started to ‘get it’ against Aberdeen and have scored in every game since bar Celtic away. Stats without context are pretty misleading. 

 

Ha. Beyond parody. Even on a thread titled "Stendel has heard too many excuses" all we get is bizarre excuses for why Stendel is actually an amazing manager. If we take out the games where Hearts didn't score we are a free scoring teram. If we ignore the games Hearts have lost and then consider that we could have won some of the others we are on a great run (I know that wasn't you, it was another poster earlier). All that is going well is down to Stendel's great system. All that is going badly is down to individual errors.

 

The system we were playing clearly contributed to both the goals against Hamilton, but anyone who has the audacity to point this out is accused of talking utter rubbish. This place is barmy.

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

Ha. Beyond parody. Even on a thread titled "Stendel has heard too many excuses" all we get is bizarre excuses for why Stendel is actually an amazing manager. If we take out the games where Hearts didn't score we are a free scoring teram. If we ignore the games Hearts have lost and then consider that we could have won some of the others we are on a great run (I know that wasn't you, it was another poster earlier). All that is going well is down to Stendel's great system. All that is going badly is down to individual errors.

 

The system we were playing clearly contributed to both the goals against Hamilton, but anyone who has the audacity to point this out is accused of talking utter rubbish. This place is barmy.

I’m not saying the system is working perfectly. I was calling any stat that included the first few games worthless and gave reasons for that.

 

What I’ve also said ( on this thread or another, I can’t remember ) is if the individual errors from the keeper and defenders continues it won’t matter what system we play because suicidal defending in any system in football will cost goals. I think DS does need to tweak the system but nothing will work if individual errors aren’t cut out. Nothing. 
 

Also re the Hamilton game, the system didn’t cause Sean Clare to give away that ridiculous penalty. You can argue all you like about ‘the ball wouldn’t have been in that area of the pitch If we didn’t defend the way we do’ but any system will see the opposition in your box sometimes and tackles like that are penalties all the time. 

[Rods]

The players seem to be aware it’s individual mistakes that have cost us 3 points. 

[Saint Jambo]

10 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I’m not saying the system is working perfectly. I was calling any stat that included the first few games worthless and gave reasons for that.

 

What I’ve also said ( on this thread or another, I can’t remember ) is if the individual errors from the keeper and defenders continues it won’t matter what system we play because suicidal defending in any system in football will cost goals. I think DS does need to tweak the system but nothing will work if individual errors aren’t cut out. Nothing. 
 

Also re the Hamilton game, the system didn’t cause Sean Clare to give away that ridiculous penalty. You can argue all you like about ‘the ball wouldn’t have been in that area of the pitch If we didn’t defend the way we do’ but any system will see the opposition in your box sometimes and tackles like that are penalties all the time. 

 

So in considering the goal scoring record am I allowed to give reasons for discounting games too? I'll take out the goals against Killie on the grounds Killie had taken their foot of the gas at 3-0 and I'll take out the goals against Hamilton on the grounds they were only scored after Hamilton were reduced to 10 men. Cherry picking the games to include is a great way to back up any argument. In the January transfer window we also bought a decent forward, but yet the poster I was responding to wanted us to believe that the only reason we were scoring was down to a system that we had been playing pre-Christmas as well. The system was being implemented pre-winter break. In some games it led to chances, in some it didn't. Post-winter break we have seen the same pattern. There have been games where the system has failed to create the chances it should, most notably against Ross County, Falkirk and Celtic. I don't think the evidence is strong enough that Stendel's performances post-NY are so much better than pre-NY that we can just discount half his league games.

 

While the Clare tackle will be a penalty in any game, we'll end up with more break-aways against us (contributing to the first goal) and more lost possession near our goal (contributing to the second goal) playing a system of both full backs playing in line with the midfield and passing the ball around at the back rather than clearing our line respectively. This leads to more opportunities for our players to make mistakes that cost goals. I can understand posters who think it will all come good in the end. I hope it does, but remain unconvinced. But I really struggle with posters who have watched our games and believe that the system is working even reasonably well (let alone perfectly). Yet the poster I was responding to would have us believe that to suggest that the system is in any way responsibly for us losing goals is to talk utter rubbish.

 

 

[GinRummy]

3 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

So in considering the goal scoring record am I allowed to give reasons for discounting games too? I'll take out the goals against Killie on the grounds Killie had taken their foot of the gas at 3-0 and I'll take out the goals against Hamilton on the grounds they were only scored after Hamilton were reduced to 10 men. Cherry picking the games to include is a great way to back up any argument. In the January transfer window we also bought a decent forward, but yet the poster I was responding to wanted us to believe that the only reason we were scoring was down to a system that we had been playing pre-Christmas as well. The system was being implemented pre-winter break. In some games it led to chances, in some it didn't. Post-winter break we have seen the same pattern. There have been games where the system has failed to create the chances it should, most notably against Ross County, Falkirk and Celtic. I don't think the evidence is strong enough that Stendel's performances post-NY are so much better than pre-NY that we can just discount half his league games.

 

While the Clare tackle will be a penalty in any game, we'll end up with more break-aways against us (contributing to the first goal) and more lost possession near our goal (contributing to the second goal) playing a system of both full backs playing in line with the midfield and passing the ball around at the back rather than clearing our line respectively. This leads to more opportunities for our players to make mistakes that cost goals. I can understand posters who think it will all come good in the end. I hope it does, but remain unconvinced. But I really struggle with posters who have watched our games and believe that the system is working even reasonably well (let alone perfectly). Yet the poster I was responding to would have us believe that to suggest that the system is in any way responsibly for us losing goals is to talk utter rubbish.

 

 

If you think it’s cherry picking to not judge a new manager, who inherited a side in a year long run of relegation form who clearly weren’t following his instructions, after 3 or 4 games then I’ve not got anything much further to add. The players were not playing to Stendel’s system during this period. 

 

I’ve said the system needs tweaked and I’ve also said it will make no difference whatsoever if the suicidal defending continues. If you truly believe we are not a more potent attacking force since Stendel’s arrival then your eyes are broken. 
 

FWIW I don’t think it’ll come good soon enough. I think we will be relegated. 

[Saint Jambo]

12 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

If you think it’s cherry picking to not judge a new manager, who inherited a side in a year long run of relegation form who clearly weren’t following his instructions, after 3 or 4 games then I’ve not got anything much further to add. The players were not playing to Stendel’s system during this period. 

 

I’ve said the system needs tweaked and I’ve also said it will make no difference whatsoever if the suicidal defending continues. If you truly believe we are not a more potent attacking force since Stendel’s arrival then your eyes are broken. 
 

FWIW I don’t think it’ll come good soon enough. I think we will be relegated. 

 

I wasn't judging him after 3 or 4 games. I was posting a factual stat including those games along with all his others. I'm judging him on his entire record. The players were playing Stendel's system during that pre-break period. The system was clearly evident from the start in his very first game against St Johnstone, a game where the defensive weakness of the system was exposed in the same way it continues to be. It was evident against Celtic at home, but there better quality picked us off. It was evident away to Hamilton but didn't produce high quality chances and we got picked off. It was evident against Hibs, but again by the time we got into the game we were already behind, another pattern that has continued post-break.I missed the Aberdeen game, but everything I read suggested it was evident again and actually worked pretty well in that game. The idea that the players didn't play the system and so these games can be discounted is just another convenient re-writing of history.

 

With this system we are a more attacking threat in some games, although definitely not in others. Unfortunately the games we are an attacking threat in also tend to be the games we are most vulnerable in. What I don't think there is evidence for is that this system is actually going to lead to us scoring loads more goals. The games against Hibs, Motherwell and Livi will be an interesting test of how well the system works in an attacking sense.

 

All our competitors have defenders who make individual errors. Our system turns more of those mistakes into goals. If we changed the system the defensive errors would not be as damaging and so I really do believe changing the system would make a difference. (The goalkeeper issue was different. Our keeper was clearly making more individual mistakes than other keepers. Fortunately Stendel has finally acted on that one.)

 

I'm still holding on to some hope that Hamilton and St Mirren will prove even worse than us and that we will scrape together enough points to survive. I'll be much more confident in that if we do change the system. Equally, because of my serious doubts, if I was in charge I'd roll the dice and replace the manager and hope that the next manager is able to produce a new manager bounce and adopt a more robust system that allows our better squad to pick up more points than Hamilton and St Mirren. Even a small bounce could make the difference between staying up and going down. Going down is a nightmare scenario that will be a disaster for the club. That said, if as seems inevitable we stick with Stendel and he does keep us up at that point I would want to keep him in place for next season and see what he can do.

[ramrod]

People getting very protective of your Daniel  on here . 

As it stands results wise he's been a horrendous appointment. Performance wise , patchy at best . Tactically , some good points some bad . 

Will he do a great job next year with a  window under his belt and a ore season , not sure tbh . 

Jury still out for me especially if he can't get us above Hamilton, they are truly shocking atm . It would be a travesty if that happened . 

[GinRummy]

8 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

I wasn't judging him after 3 or 4 games. I was posting a factual stat including those games along with all his others. I'm judging him on his entire record. The players were playing Stendel's system during that pre-break period. The system was clearly evident from the start in his very first game against St Johnstone, a game where the defensive weakness of the system was exposed in the same way it continues to be. It was evident against Celtic at home, but there better quality picked us off. It was evident away to Hamilton but didn't produce high quality chances and we got picked off. It was evident against Hibs, but again by the time we got into the game we were already behind, another pattern that has continued post-break.I missed the Aberdeen game, but everything I read suggested it was evident again and actually worked pretty well in that game. The idea that the players didn't play the system and so these games can be discounted is just another convenient re-writing of history.

 

With this system we are a more attacking threat in some games, although definitely not in others. Unfortunately the games we are an attacking threat in also tend to be the games we are most vulnerable in. What I don't think there is evidence for is that this system is actually going to lead to us scoring loads more goals. The games against Hibs, Motherwell and Livi will be an interesting test of how well the system works in an attacking sense.

 

All our competitors have defenders who make individual errors. Our system turns more of those mistakes into goals. If we changed the system the defensive errors would not be as damaging and so I really do believe changing the system would make a difference. (The goalkeeper issue was different. Our keeper was clearly making more individual mistakes than other keepers. Fortunately Stendel has finally acted on that one.)

 

I'm still holding on to some hope that Hamilton and St Mirren will prove even worse than us and that we will scrape together enough points to survive. I'll be much more confident in that if we do change the system. Equally, because of my serious doubts, if I was in charge I'd roll the dice and replace the manager and hope that the next manager is able to produce a new manager bounce and adopt a more robust system that allows our better squad to pick up more points than Hamilton and St Mirren. Even a small bounce could make the difference between staying up and going down. Going down is a nightmare scenario that will be a disaster for the club. That said, if as seems inevitable we stick with Stendel and he does keep us up at that point I would want to keep him in place for next season and see what he can do.

They system was evident for all of 10 minutes against st Johnstone then abandoned. The players had not adapted to or bought into his system prior to the winter break.

 

i have seen evidence that we’ll score more goals. The goals themselves. I agree the next three league games will be a big indicator. I agree some aspects need to be changed to help the defence. Where I disagree is in the extent to which we’ll stop leaking goals with a change of system. I do think we’d me much more solid with an upturn on our defenders form.

 

I honestly think it’s too late to change manager now. We’ve got who we’ve got till the end of the season. Just hope we can start to pick up points but it really is just hope now.

[Bongo 1874]

Players don't lack skills, confidence & determination!! They only lack teachers. 

 

 

[Bongo 1874]

18 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Players don't lack skills, confidence & determination!! They only lack teachers. 

 

 

After 2.5 years of sub standard coaching, we finally have a manager that can improve players. 

 

Give him time that's all i ask 👍🇱🇻. 

[TheBigO]

We'll survive and next season football will be fun as a Jambo again, and for the first time in a long time.

 

Bookmark it type post.

 

[davemclaren]

9 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

We'll survive and next season football will be fun as a Jambo again, and for the first time in a long time.

 

Bookmark it type post.

 

God I hope you are right. 

[Baxfee]

7 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

We'll survive and next season football will be fun as a Jambo again, and for the first time in a long time.

 

Bookmark it type post.

 

I would absolutely love it if this pans out. However, have to admit I’m seriously doubting us being able to get on a roll of wins to avoid relegation. More than happy to be proved wrong on that one. 

[Nelly Terraces]

I think just about every Hearts supporter is fed up with hearing from.players & management telling us how things are going to change following repeated failures.

 

They need to man the **** up, fight like beasts to keep this club up & do their talking on the pitch. 

[davemclaren]

8 minutes ago, Nelly Terraces said:

I think just about every Hearts supporter is fed up with hearing from.players & management telling us how things are going to change following repeated failures.

 

They need to man the **** up, fight like beasts to keep this club up & do their talking on the pitch. 

Can’t argue with that. 

[GinRummy]

1 hour ago, Lord BJ said:

I don’t think we are much better at attacking under DS than we were under CL. By in large the same issues exist, a lack of creativity and width, though LB hopefully helps with the finishing aspect  
 

We are just less cautious under DS for a variety of reasons. Unfortunately, the major one being we have had a tendency to fall behind under him and have been required to chase games. Albeit in general he is less cautious than CL.
 

When we are not chasing games, which isn’t very often,  we create very little off note but get excited about position stats. Which seems very CL 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

As DS says it’s results that decide if your good/doing a good job. We need to start getting some.

You are right. We do still struggle in certain aspects of attack. It’s still night and day compared to CL latterly. If we can sort out the defensive errors, and I’ve seen nothing to suggest we will, we’ll get away with our problems in attack. 
 

 

[amadjambo]

18 hours ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

In the league we are averaging the same number of goals a game under Stendel as we were before he arrived this season. But maybe that stat is utter nonsense too.

No, that is correct, but, and I’m sure you are well aware of this, since Stendel had a chance to work with the players to get his message across in January our scoring record has vastly improved. But you knew that anyway, didn’t you.

[Weakened Offender]

On 22/02/2020 at 19:00, Whatever said:

How many of they games were during the first 3 week period where he was assessing the squad that ***** Levein had left him?

 

It would take (at best) an agenda driven person to argue the point that we aren’t currently scoring and creating more than we did under Levein.

 

 

 

Do we count the matches where Levein didn't have Washington, Naismith and Walker or do we just cherry-pick Daniel's matches? 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

On 22/02/2020 at 17:58, amadjambo said:

What utter nonsense. The system isn’t the reason we have been conceding goals. We had a keeper that didn’t save anything, absolutely nothing. And we have had players making absolutely howling mistakes.

 

The system IMO is the only reason we have been scoring goals and putting up a fight.

The system is responsible for some of the goals we’ve been conceding

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

9 hours ago, Nelly Terraces said:

I think just about every Hearts supporter is fed up with hearing from.players & management telling us how things are going to change following repeated failures.

 

They need to man the **** up, fight like beasts to keep this club up & do their talking on the pitch. 

Problem is mate, the people at the top of the club got us into the mindset that poor results weren’t anything to lose sleep over. Now we’re looking to a bunch of conditioned losers to drag us out of the shit. 

[Whatever]

8 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Do we count the matches where Levein didn't have Washington, Naismith and Walker or do we just cherry-pick Daniel's matches? 

Do as you ****in please.

 

 

[upgotheheads]

9 hours ago, Nelly Terraces said:

I think just about every Hearts supporter is fed up with hearing from.players & management telling us how things are going to change following repeated failures.

 

They need to man the **** up, fight like beasts to keep this club up & do their talking on the pitch. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Problem is mate, the people at the top of the club got us into the mindset that poor results weren’t anything to lose sleep over. Now we’re looking to a bunch of conditioned losers to drag us out of the shit. 

Yup. We are in a league of battling teams because other 'lesser' teams know what's  needed for survival, our players have too high an opinion of themselves. I fear it's too late to turn them into fighters.

Edited February 23, 2020 by upgotheheads

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

2 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

 

Yup. We are in a league of battling teams because other 'lesser' teams know what's  needed for survival, our players have too high an opinion of themselves. I fear it's too late to turn them into fighters.

Wouldn’t even say they’ve got too high an opinion of themselves. They’re just in a Sunday League environment, epitomised by the likes of Berra/Pereira getting endless games despite being obviously shite.

[TheSandpit]

18 hours ago, amadjambo said:

No, that is correct, but, and I’m sure you are well aware of this, since Stendel had a chance to work with the players to get his message across in January our scoring record has vastly improved. But you knew that anyway, didn’t you.

His message got across? So where are the results, that is what football is about. No? 

 

Stendel isnt the problem is the useless players stockpiled by Craig Levein. It'll take ages to shift all that dross and I'm not convinced he's entirely out of the picture yet. Until he's gone Stendels messages will be fuzzy. 

[Bongo 1874]

On 22/02/2020 at 21:01, Bongo 1874 said:

Players don't lack skills, confidence & determination!! They only lack teachers. 

 

 

 

On 22/02/2020 at 21:21, Bongo 1874 said:

After 2.5 years of sub standard coaching, we finally have a manager that can improve players. 

 

Give him time that's all i ask 👍🇱🇻. 

Massive bump 🇱🇻😁.