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We Are Going Down


James1874f

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Just now, H2 said:

St. Mirren - A

Hibs - A

Motherwell - H

Livingstone - A

Ross C - H

----

Kilmarnock - A

St.Johnstone - H

Ross C - A

St.Mirren - H

Hamilton  - A

 

6 away games, only 4 at home.

30 points up for grabs - Where do we get 18 from?


Missed the sheep game there, chief.

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Just now, Mr Elwood P said:


I am looking at it objectively. We have far better players than the other teams in the bottom six and we’re making an arse of it. Your the one resorting to infantile nonsense as you don’t have anything of substance to back Stendel with. 


Do we ?

The table would suggest otherwise.

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2 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:


Your lack of footballing knowledge is equally astounding. The clue is that Liverpool have the players to play the system, we clearly do not. That is why we are getting relegated.

Again, I’ll ask as I am extremely curious 

What is this mystery tactical system that does actually suit our players and one which we can’t seem to identify with ?  

 

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33 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

It could be entirely possible that Stendel and Levein are both incompetent *******s and you lot are arguing over which is the least smelly shite in the toilet bowl.

 

The folk that refuse to accept that Levein made an absolute ***** of it over an extended period are just as blinkered as those who seek to admonish Stendel for the last few months.

 

This place is boring as **** these days. Barely any subtle levity left at all.

 

The best posters recently have been the Hibs interlopers. At least they're trying to have a laugh.


I agree, those who are seeking to admonish Levein from all responsibility are equally as boring. Levein has to shoulder much of the blame for where we are now. Could not agree more. There’s folk completely incapable of accepting what they are seeing in front of them right at this moment though. We are chronic just now and we should have seen an improvement. There’s folk saying we should just blame Levein if we relegated, and give Stendel a free pass... absolute insanity.

 

As for who’s a good poster or not... hard to give a monkeys just now. Good or bad posters won’t affect what happens on the pitch. It’s an internet site for people to talk about their football club. Right now the biggest and pressing concern is the fact that we are utterly utterly shite. Folk are going to mention it.

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12 hours ago, Cruyff said:

He's the best choice for that position.

He's miles better than Brandon and he offers more than Smith going forward, granted Smith is a better defender. 


We will have to agree to disagree.  Stopping teams scoring has to be our priority. I don’t think Clare offers much going forward either.  I don’t think he has a single assist this season?

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16 minutes ago, H2 said:

St. Mirren - A - Would be surprised if we get the W 

Hibs - A - If you seen the highlights against county and Killy we might get a proper drubbing

Motherwell - H - Packed Tynecastle we might nick a point 

Livingstone - A - Cant see us getting anything there on the artificial pitch

Ross C - H - Should win , Must win 

----

Kilmarnock - A - Cant see us getting anything there on the artificial pitch

St.Johnstone - H - Winnable

Ross C -- Winnable

St.Mirren - H - Winnable

Hamilton  - Think we will win this. 

 

6 away games, only 4 at home.

30 points up for grabs - Where do we get 18 from?

 

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7 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

Again, I’ll ask as I am extremely curious 

What is this mystery tactical system that does actually suit our players and one which we can’t seem to identify with ?  

 


Any system that incorporates actually trying to defend. Giving teams 0–1, 0-2 and 0-3 leads every game is killing us!

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27 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Not at all, what I’m saying it’s hypocritical of folk to say he should go if we get relegated but happily gave Levein time to get us into this mess.

As for Stendel I’m in total agreement with how he wants us to play, all our best teams harried and pressed the life out of teams and it gets the fans going. 
Whether the system will work with the players we currently have is another thing, I’m struggling to think of a system and formation that suits this band of misfits assembled by Levein. 
My bitterness towards Levein will never fade, but it’s not clouding my judgement 2 months into the new managers reign. If we do go down questions will be asked no doubt, there’s plenty of time to recover though and we shouldn’t give up with 33 points still to play for.


I’m absolutely sick of hearing about Levein in all honesty. He’s no longer the manager and rightly so. He failed and as a consequence is no longer in a position to affect results either way. His presence at the club now has ZERO influence on what goes on on the pitch, but he’s all you hear from some obsessed individuals.

 

The here and now is what’s important, and that’s what we need to concentrate on. The here and now is absolutely shite and every team in the league knows how to play against us, and get points.

 

 

 

 

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On 15/02/2020 at 15:41, Leveins Battalion said:

Change of everything required.

 

CEO

Management

Players

 

All needed.

This....

Whether we go down or stay up.

Time to re-boot the whole club........!

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On Saturday, you could see in the spell before their first goal that we were trying to press the opponents, but we were often doing it with too many men going to the same ball and paying less attention to the angles between opponents. It's not about tackling, fouling, and winning challenges, it's primarily about putting pressure on the player in possession and closing off the angles so as to prevent him passing, which is when we should recover possession. However, we regularly had 4 men randomly going towards the ball, which meant any pass out saw us exposed elsewhere. It looks as if we're pressing but we're just running to the ball and doing that we'll quickly lose our shape. 

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Pasquale for King
18 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:


Your lack of footballing knowledge is equally astounding. The clue is that Liverpool have the players to play the system, we clearly do not. That is why we are getting relegated.

Nonsense, Liverpool play against Burnley etc, we play Hamilton, the difference in playing budget mean we should be able to use tactics in the same way. We’ve done it in the past, we can and should do it again. As for the team not being good enough is that Stendels fault?

Seeing as you think know everything, who should we have hired and what system and formation should we play with this team? So far nobody has answered this yet.

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Governor Tarkin
16 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

As for who’s a good poster or not... hard to give a monkeys just now. Good or bad posters won’t affect what happens on the pitch. It’s an internet site for people to talk about their football club. Right now the biggest and pressing concern is the fact that we are utterly utterly shite. Folk are going to mention it.

 

Thanks for pointing that out.

 

:rolleyes:

 

Meanwhile, in Nauman's Tate Modern tribute to Kickback...

 

image.png.25ada39b1e74231b411c29b619203f81.png

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1 minute ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


I’m absolutely sick of hearing about Levein in all honesty. He’s no longer the manager and rightly so. He failed and as a consequence is no longer in a position to affect results either way. His presence at the club now has ZERO influence on what goes on on the pitch, but he’s all you hear from some obsessed individuals.

 

The here and now is what’s important, and that’s what we need to concentrate on. The here and now is absolutely shite and every team in the league knows how to play against us, and get points.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can't say he has ZERO influence on what goes on, on the pitch, when he bought the majority of the players on it. Levein is hugely responsible for this mess. He's still at the club and should be long gone.

 

I'm pretty much resigned to the fact we're going down, I don't see where the points are coming from tbh. Perhaps if Sibbick and Harring return we'd have a chance but the majority of the teams in the league will have enough to beat us. Stendel needs to quickly find a formula to win however that's done - I can't see it however.

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Pasquale for King
22 minutes ago, H2 said:

I don;t think we can afford to be that optimistic, the other clubs keep picking up points and when we get into the last five fixtures, it's likely that two teams will have little motivation to get points. IMO, we need to look at getting 18.

Out Optimism keeps coming and kicking us where it hurts.

Possibly but who knows, optimism is not usually my strong point but we have to hope. Some have given up already, that’s not helping.

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Niemi’s gloves
24 minutes ago, Boab said:


Do we ?

The table would suggest otherwise.


One possible answer:
 

The players we’ve binned seem to be doing pretty well where they are now so presumably the ones we kept are decent players.

 

To be specific Whelan 6 games at Fleetwood in League One, two draws followed up by 4 straight wins. They may be a diddy club in terms of support but I’d bet on them against us right now. 
 

Berra only two games so far for Dundee, a draw and a win, with Christophe making the SPFL team of the week in the latter. 
 

Wighton has scored twice and  Arbroath have won all three games he has played and are going remarkably well for a part time team in the championship. They lost the game he missed.

 

McLean has played three games for Raith and they have won them all.

 

Edited by Niemi’s gloves
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Just now, Pasquale for King said:

Nonsense, Liverpool play against Burnley etc, we play Hamilton, the difference in playing budget mean we should be able to use tactics in the same way. We’ve done it in the past, we can and should do it again. As for the team not being good enough is that Stendels fault?

Seeing as you think know everything, who should we have hired and what system and formation should we play with this team? So far nobody has answered this yet.


It’s nothing to do with budget and all to do with the types of players. The system didn’t fully work under Klopp until Van Dijk, Allison and Trent Alexander - Arnold were added to the squad. We don’t have the goalkeepers, centre backs, wings backs, centre mids or forward players to play the system. Using a budget comparison shows you clearly don’t understand why the system works so well at Liverpool. It’s taken them 4 years to get it ready for an EPL title win!

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Just now, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Thanks for pointing that out.

 

:rolleyes:

 

Meanwhile, in Nauman's Tate Modern tribute to Kickback...

 

image.png.25ada39b1e74231b411c29b619203f81.png


Pointing it out because your post seemed to place a lot more importance on the poster than the topic. 
 

I agree about the bipolar Levein v Stendel bickering. That’s what I’ve been trying to point out. It doesn’t have to be the case that one is to blame and the other completely without blame. I happen to think Levein failed AND Stendel is doing a really poor job so far.

 

Not overly fussy about laughs on Kickback, it’s far too restrictive in what you can post for that to happen these days. I just have a laugh with my mates instead. 

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10 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Possibly but who knows, optimism is not usually my strong point but we have to hope. Some have given up already, that’s not helping.

As they talk about in the world of Opera, the fact lady is in the stadium, it's up to us to stop her singing.

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Neverforgetfiveone
43 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:


Your lack of footballing knowledge is equally astounding. The clue is that Liverpool have the players to play the system, we clearly do not. That is why we are getting relegated.

 

Trick is to play players in there strongest/natural positions. Sean Clair is trying but is weak at full back. 

Play Smith there and we look a hell lot more solid. Also get a couple of the new recruits back, Sibbick and Langer who are both defensively minded. Let our front 3 go and win us the game, they are good enough. Liverpool do the very same. Very solid and their front 3 do the business. Their midfield created very little but the are industrious and do the graft. 

 

Bobby (GK)

 

Smith, Soutter, Halket, Hickey

 

langer, Sibbick, Irvine

 

Walker, Boyce, Naismith

 

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Pasquale for King
29 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:


It’s nothing to do with budget and all to do with the types of players. The system didn’t fully work under Klopp until Van Dijk, Allison and Trent Alexander - Arnold were added to the squad. We don’t have the goalkeepers, centre backs, wings backs, centre mids or forward players to play the system. Using a budget comparison shows you clearly don’t understand why the system works so well at Liverpool. It’s taken them 4 years to get it ready for an EPL title win!

They’ve played it without the right players and have still been reasonably successful, they’re not bottom of the league and have perfected it now. Better players have helped but the likes of Henderson and Milner have adapted, you have to convince the players to believe in it and most of ours seem to, you can’t change all the time or the players get confused as they did under your pal Levein. Budget is important when you want to sign Allison and Van Dijk though.
Still no answer to what manager, system and formation suits this mismatched squad?

Edited by Pasquale for King
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Pasquale for King
1 minute ago, Neverforgetfiveone said:

 

Trick is to play players in there strongest/natural positions. Sean Clair is trying but is weak at full back. 

Play Smith there and we look a hell lot more solid. Also get a couple of the new recruits back, Sibbick and Langer who are both defensively minded. Let our front 3 go and win us the game, they are good enough. Liverpool do the very same. Very solid and their front 3 do the business. Their midfield created very little but the are industrious and do the graft. 

 

Bobby (GK)

 

Smith, Soutter, Halket, Hickey

 

langer, Sibbick, Irvine

 

Walker, Boyce, Naismith

 

Spot on, team looks good.

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Pasquale for King
15 minutes ago, H2 said:

As they talk about in the world of Opera, the fact lady is in the stadium, it's up to us to stop her singing.

Not sure if they talk about fact ladies and stadiums but I get the point 👍🏽

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28 minutes ago, Niemi’s gloves said:


One possible answer:
 

The players we’ve binned seem to be doing pretty well where they are now so presumably the ones we kept are decent players.

 

To be specific Whelan 6 games at Fleetwood in League One, two draws followed up by 4 straight wins. They may be a diddy club in terms of support but I’d bet on them against us right now. 
 

Berra only two games so far for Dundee, a draw and a win, with Christophe making the SPFL team of the week in the latter. 
 

Wighton has scored twice and  Arbroath have won all three games he has played and are going remarkably well for a part time team in the championship. They lost the game he missed.

 

McLean has played three games for Raith and they have won them all.

 

 

Not one of them playing at our level.

 

I watched a guy down our local park bang in 5 goals a few weeks ago, by your reckoning we should be signing him up.

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Pasquale for King
35 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


I’m absolutely sick of hearing about Levein in all honesty. He’s no longer the manager and rightly so. He failed and as a consequence is no longer in a position to affect results either way. His presence at the club now has ZERO influence on what goes on on the pitch, but he’s all you hear from some obsessed individuals.

 

The here and now is what’s important, and that’s what we need to concentrate on. The here and now is absolutely shite and every team in the league knows how to play against us, and get points.

 

 

 

 

He’s still skulking about the corridors talking to players, I know that for a fact and should be removed from every aspect of the club. I’m sick of hearing about him too, doesn’t mean you can disregard the fact that the squad he assembled is incapable of playing any system or formation as they have shown all season. How would you have us set up?

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Pasquale for King
1 minute ago, graygo said:

 

Not one of them playing at our level.

 

I watched a guy down our local park bang in 5 goals a few weeks ago, by your reckoning we should be signing him up.

My great nephew is a GK, Hearts let him go at 12, sign him and play him, he’s only 15 though 😃. Glad you answered him 👍🏽.

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1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

He’s still skulking about the corridors talking to players, I know that for a fact and should be removed from every aspect of the club. I’m sick of hearing about him too, doesn’t mean you can disregard the fact that the squad he assembled is incapable of playing any system or formation as they have shown all season. How would you have us set up?

Wait a minute! He's talking to the players?

What's he saying? Is he telling them to play pish and not to listen to Stendal?

How do we stop him chatting with them should they bump into each other in the street?

 

It's funny because I read that Levein fully supports the manager and his style of football. However the bottom line is that he has no influence on the players now.

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3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

My great nephew is a GK, Hearts let him go at 12, sign him and play him, he’s only 15 though 😃. Glad you answered him 👍🏽.

 

Probably better than we have to be fair.

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19 hours ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:


Give me your thought out valid reasons for your belief please.

Only my opinion mate. I think we have enough time and games to do it. We will adapt with each game. Must admit I'm a glass half full kind of person, but I never give up and thats what I look for in my football club and it's supporters.

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Pasquale for King
15 minutes ago, graygo said:

Wait a minute! He's talking to the players?

What's he saying? Is he telling them to play pish and not to listen to Stendal?

How do we stop him chatting with them should they bump into each other in the street?

 

It's funny because I read that Levein fully supports the manager and his style of football. However the bottom line is that he has no influence on the players now.

I don’t think he needs to tell them to play pish, they already do. Wee chats in the corridors, what do you reckon he’s saying to them? Asking about their Social media posts at Nando’s, I’m sure he’s right behind Daniel and loved telling his duds they had to go. I hadn’t read that about him supporting Stendel, he is prone to lying though. 
Must be awkward seeing him around, especially when some players have said it’s great being coached again.

Edited by Pasquale for King
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Pasquale for King
4 minutes ago, poultry said:

Only my opinion mate. I think we have enough time and games to do it. We will adapt with each game. Must admit I'm a glass half full kind of person, but I never give up and thats what I look for in my football club and it's supporters.

Good post.

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Pasquale for King
9 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Probably better than we have to be fair.

He’s been on the bench for Dunbars men team so he progressing well, turned down the Hibs too 😆.

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5 minutes ago, poultry said:

Only my opinion mate. I think we have enough time and games to do it. We will adapt with each game. Must admit I'm a glass half full kind of person, but I never give up and thats what I look for in my football club and it's supporters.

well said 100%👍

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1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

He’s been on the bench for Dunbars men team so he progressing well, turned down the Hibs too 😆.

Hope he does well mate 👍

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47 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:


Pointing it out because your post seemed to place a lot more importance on the poster than the topic. 
 

I agree about the bipolar Levein v Stendel bickering. That’s what I’ve been trying to point out. It doesn’t have to be the case that one is to blame and the other completely without blame. I happen to think Levein failed AND Stendel is doing a really poor job so far.

 

Not overly fussy about laughs on Kickback, it’s far too restrictive in what you can post for that to happen these days. I just have a laugh with my mates instead. 

 

It was all going well then you had to ruin it. 

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23 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

He’s still skulking about the corridors talking to players, I know that for a fact and should be removed from every aspect of the club. I’m sick of hearing about him too, doesn’t mean you can disregard the fact that the squad he assembled is incapable of playing any system or formation as they have shown all season. How would you have us set up?

 

:rofl:

 

Please let it be true. 

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1 hour ago, Mr Elwood P said:


Your lack of footballing knowledge is equally astounding. The clue is that Liverpool have the players to play the system, we clearly do not. That is why we are getting relegated.

We are getting relegated because we assembled a squad with no decent goalkeeper, no cover at CB, no central midfielders, no wingers, no goalscorer, and no pace.

 

Stendel has tried to address some of this, but the problems are just too large.

 

IF we win on Friday, we have a chance. Lose and I fear it’s game over.

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Niemi’s gloves
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25 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Not one of them playing at our level.

 

I watched a guy down our local park bang in 5 goals a few weeks ago, by your reckoning we should be signing him up.

 


Sadly your first sentence isn’t really true if the issue now is about avoiding relegation in competition with teams like St Mirren, Ross County and Hamilton. Do you really think that the top end of League One in England is a lower level than the bottom end of our league? Or that there is no overlap between the bottom end of our league and the Scottish Championship?

 

The idea that all our players are individually rubbish is nonsense, even if it suits the prejudices of some.

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3 minutes ago, Niemi’s gloves said:


Sadly your first sentence isn’t really true if the issue now is about avoiding relegation in competition with teams like St Mirren, Ross County and Hamilton. Do you really think that the top end of League One in England is a lower level than the bottom end of our league? Or that there is no overlap between the bottom end of our league and the Scottish Championship?

 

The idea that all our players are individually rubbish is nonsense, even if it suits the prejudices of some.

 

No point getting into a debate about it as we're probably both set in our ways but yes I do think there is a difference.

Which team normally wins the play off game for instance?

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1 hour ago, Haken said:

I'm pretty sure I've been accused of being too positive in the past. 😆

 

You're right, of course - things could change dramatically and for the better.  I thought that moment had arrived when we beat Rangers, a result you would have thought would have cemented belief in Stendel's system in the players' minds.  Hasn't quite worked out that way.

 

If we beat St Mirren on Friday, I'll be feeling ever so slightly more positive.  Or less negative.

 

So will I bud so will I but even if we fight out a draw we go on to the next game with the same intention and spirit gather points and get to safety in the long run. Wisnae suggesting that you were Mr negative but there is generally too much of it the now we need a win it is true but I am sure the boys on the pitch feel the same way they know we need a win.

Edited by jock _turd
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To be honest in my opinion if we go down now it’s all down to both Levein and Stendel. Yes Levein left us in a very bad place however we have not improved under Stendel. 
Given the players we now have available after recovery from injury we have more than enough in the squad to comfortably move away from where we are. Unfortunately Stendel and his methods are probably going to make that very difficult. I would expect Andy Kirk to be able to manage us out of relegation from now until end of season just by playing standard 442 or 433 and playing everyone in their best positions and dropping the out of form players. By this I mean Smith at right back, Naismith up front, Washington up front, Zlamal in goals, and stop the all-out press tactic which we clearly don’t have the players to play. 
However, for me, Stendel keeps making the same selection and tactical errors. Its been obvious recently that Clare, Garucchio and White struggle at full-back in the press formation. Naismith hasn’t got the legs for midfield any more. Smith ia better right back and centre back than he is a holding midfielder. Pereira kept getting picked, despite throwing it into his own net game after game, because he was the only keeper that could play the sweeper role required under press tactics. 
Back four from Smith Souttar Halkett Hickey Dikamona White

Midfield from Irving Bozanic Sibbick Walker Moore Langer Damour 

Up front from Naismith Boyce Washington Henderson 

 

Even admitting that midfield is weak that should still be enough to play our way out of the bottom two if we play to players strengths and not the managers romantic ideas. 

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Bazzas right boot
1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

Here we go with this old argument again. Do Liverpool/Dortmund, Man City or the great Barcelona/Munich teams ever play any other way no matter who the opponent is. Your lack of football knowledge is astounding, the idea is to get the ball back, high up is great but it’s n your own half is ok too.

 

14640479-0643-4DCA-BF6F-DE6CB0203C30.jpeg

 

 

They play teams who generally pass it out. 

They are also very, very good. 

 

In Scotland, teams are happy to fire it into the corners, turn the defence and almost play a territory game. 

 

Pressing a team that goes direct is not as effective as pressing a team that insists on possession football. 

 

 

 

 

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Bazzas right boot
5 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

To be honest in my opinion if we go down now it’s all down to both Levein and Stendel. Yes Levein left us in a very bad place however we have not improved under Stendel. 
Given the players we now have available after recovery from injury we have more than enough in the squad to comfortably move away from where we are. Unfortunately Stendel and his methods are probably going to make that very difficult. I would expect Andy Kirk to be able to manage us out of relegation from now until end of season just by playing standard 442 or 433 and playing everyone in their best positions and dropping the out of form players. By this I mean Smith at right back, Naismith up front, Washington up front, Zlamal in goals, and stop the all-out press tactic which we clearly don’t have the players to play. 
However, for me, Stendel keeps making the same selection and tactical errors. Its been obvious recently that Clare, Garucchio and White struggle at full-back in the press formation. Naismith hasn’t got the legs for midfield any more. Smith ia better right back and centre back than he is a holding midfielder. Pereira kept getting picked, despite throwing it into his own net game after game, because he was the only keeper that could play the sweeper role required under press tactics. 
Back four from Smith Souttar Halkett Hickey Dikamona White

Midfield from Irving Bozanic Sibbick Walker Moore Langer Damour 

Up front from Naismith Boyce Washington Henderson 

 

Even admitting that midfield is weak that should still be enough to play our way out of the bottom two if we play to players strengths and not the managers romantic ideas. 

 

 

Agreed. 

 

We need to do the simple things. 

 

We can expand our horizons in the summer. 

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Niemi’s gloves
Quote
19 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

No point getting into a debate about it as we're probably both set in our ways but yes I do think there is a difference.

Which team normally wins the play off game for instance?

 


ok it’s usually the premier team, who are favoured by the set up (playing the second leg at home). But you have to go back four years for anything at all convincing by the premier team. Three years ago the premier team won 1-0 at home after a 0-0 draw. Two years ago it was the championship team (Livi) who won both games, 2-1 at home and then 1-0 away. Last season St Mirren won only on penalties after 0-0 and 1-1 draws. Nothing there to suggest a gulf in class.

 

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