We Are Going Down

[Mr Elwood P]

10 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Why would we keep boyce if we go down??? Maybe because he's a goalscorer and we'll need one to get back out the championship??

 

Stendel obviously. not Boyce!

[soonbe110]

5 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

Could Hearts go down? Yes, undoubtedly. You'd have to be crazy to think otherwise given we've been this awful for this long: not just the past 15 or 16 months, but for over 3 years now.

 

Will we go down? Probably not, no. I don't base that on anything good about us at all. We're shocking. The first half yesterday was as scandalous a performance as I've ever seen from any Hearts side in a game of such importance. 

 

I base that on how bad Hamilton and St Mirren are - and over a whole season, squad depth (or, to put it better, squad quantity) usually tells. There's a reason Hearts, Aberdeen and Hibs always have to really go some to be in relegation danger in this league. It takes the most mindboggling levels of incompetence on and especially off the pitch.

 

I might feel differently if we'd lost yesterday - but we didn't. Our opponents blew a 2-goal lead and the chance to go 4 points clear of us. And our opponents were a pub team who aren't going to go on any kind of run themselves.

 

Is it Stendel's fault? No. I have a basic rule which says it's completely unreasonable to blame any manager before they've had their own preseason: which gives them a proper chance to get their ideas across and bring in their own players. I do have grave doubts about the wisdom of playing this kind of way in the wind and rain of the Scottish winter on the narrowest pitch in the league - but while it'll lose games and goals, it'll probably win games too. And 3 points every now and then is better than draws from being "hard to beat".

 

Maybe we'll pick up a bit when the weather improves. This is probably gonna go to the wire - but 10th remains likelier than 12th at this point. The real responsibility lies with Levein, Budge and others for somehow getting the club into this incredible state in the first place. Their negligence has been absolutely astonishing.

Have to agree re going down. Four teams involved in the relegation battle and if you compare the squads of us, Hamilton, St. Mirren and Ross County there is no doubt we should not finish in bottom two. We have at least 8 players with international caps in our squad, doubt if the other three have that many between them. The ability, experience and quality of our squad SHOULD mean we finish no worse than 9th. Unfortunately our management team are extremely inexperienced  and have no track record of surviving relegation battles.  Our ability to survive this season is largely down to the senior players in our squad. 

[Redhelen]

44 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Less and less games every time we make a ***** of the must win ones!!! Did we look up for the fight at 2 down yesterday.......no we did not.

How did the 2 goals Hearts scored come about if there was no fight?

[ollie2004]

On 15/02/2020 at 15:51, James1874f said:

Bang on the money. 

So what has happened with the approx £1 million per year grom FOH.

How was it spent some £9 million!

[McCrae]

7 hours ago, graygo said:

The Clare that has been man of the match in a few of our last games? That Clare?

 

Hamilton threw away a 2 goal lead against the bottom side yesterday, at a ground where almost every team wins  A game where a win would have seen them go 4 points clear. Bottle merchants?

 

I'm not throwing the towel in just yet 

Do you think he is a good defender, I don’t.  

[The rat catcher]

4 minutes ago, Redhelen said:

How did the 2 goals Hearts scored come about if there was no fight?

Very good question. Don’t expect a good answer.

[McCrae]

6 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Have to agree re going down. Four teams involved in the relegation battle and if you compare the squads of us, Hamilton, St. Mirren and Ross County there is no doubt we should not finish in bottom two. We have at least 8 players with international caps in our squad, doubt if the other three have that many between them. The ability, experience and quality of our squad SHOULD mean we finish no worse than 9th. Unfortunately our management team are extremely inexperienced  and have no track record of surviving relegation battles.  Our ability to survive this season is largely down to the senior players in our squad. 

It’s the weak links in your team that tend to lose you games, That’s been our problem. 

[McCrae]

7 hours ago, MarkDevriesScores4 said:

Whilst people have been having a big “love in” for Clare, I have repeatedly said HE IS NOT A DEFENDER. He has zero awareness as a defender and he might have scored a few goals but he has cost us just as many if not more. It’s not his fault. He’s being dumped in a role he has no experience in and will continue to lose us goals and points. It’s not rocket science 

Agreed. He is there because we have been forced to play Smith in midfield.

[rick witter]

4 hours ago, Fourcandles said:

1 point adrift and 33 points to play for.

 

.

The point is we don’t take 3 points off anyone. Going by the performances the Rangers game was a complete fluke. Our chance was yesterday to get off the bottom and start looking upwards and the players were a disgrace to the jersey to be quite honest. That was a Hamilton team decimated by injuries. They can win tight matches at home when they need to and we can’t.

[rick witter]

11 minutes ago, Redhelen said:

How did the 2 goals Hearts scored come about if there was no fight?

They came about as we had an extra man on an extremely heavy pitch. 
The first goal was a good goal to be fair but we completely ran out of ideas and just shunted it wide  time after time and put crosses into the box. Luckily one of the crosses resulted in a goal. 

[jambo_74]

2 minutes ago, rick witter said:

The point is we don’t take 3 points off anyone. Going by the performances the Rangers game was a complete fluke. Our chance was yesterday to get off the bottom and start looking upwards and the players were a disgrace to the jersey to be quite honest. That was a Hamilton team decimated by injuries. They can win tight matches at home when they need to and we can’t.

Hamilton have won one more game than Hearts all season, and their form over the last five games is actually worse than Hearts. Not sure where you are finding the stats from but I would suggest you look again.

[Bull's-eye]

Just now, rick witter said:

They came about as we had an extra man on an extremely heavy pitch. 
The first goal was a good goal to be fair but we completely ran out of ideas and just shunted it wide  time after time and put crosses into the box. Luckily one of the crosses resulted in a goal. 

 

What a slaver 

[GinRummy]

6 minutes ago, rick witter said:

They came about as we had an extra man on an extremely heavy pitch. 
The first goal was a good goal to be fair but we completely ran out of ideas and just shunted it wide  time after time and put crosses into the box. Luckily one of the crosses resulted in a goal. 

that’s not running out of ideas. Putting crosses into the box is a good way to get goals.  

[rick witter]

6 minutes ago, jambo_74 said:

Hamilton have won one more game than Hearts all season, and their form over the last five games is actually worse than Hearts. Not sure where you are finding the stats from but I would suggest you look again.

I’m not meaning this season I’m meaning every season since they have been in the top league they find a way to stay in it. They are used to scrapping and got another great result away from home yesterday. I certainly would think they are more likely to pick up points after the split than us that’s for sure. 

[rick witter]

9 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

What a slaver 

You obviously saw some superb football that I missed yesterday mate yeah???? 
If they don’t go to 10 men we lose the match do you agree??? 
 

[Randy Marsh]

6 minutes ago, rick witter said:

You obviously saw some superb football that I missed yesterday mate yeah???? 
If they don’t go to 10 men we lose the match do you agree??? 
 

 

We will never know.

[Nelly Terraces]

6 hours ago, Balernojambo said:

Agree.  Trying to remain positive but the first part of the game was so horrific it does give me a horrible feeling relegation is a distinct possibility. Hoping we can salvage things, and Hamilton do look like they are struggling injury wise.

Correct, they won't win many games - but can we? I honestly have my doubts.

 

What gets me us this is all so preventable, we have the personnel to win matches & all it needs is a more pragmatic approach to our setup & an understanding that we need maximum effort in every moment of every game. I honestly don't think that much to ask, or beyond us. 

[Beast Boy]

Just now, Nelly Terraces said:

Correct, they won't win many games - but can we? I honestly have my doubts.

 

What gets me us this is all so preventable, we have the personnel to win matches & all it needs is a more pragmatic approach to our setup & an understanding that we need maximum effort in every moment of every game. I honestly don't think that much to ask, or beyond us. 

Exactly. This all day long. The only priority right now is staying up, and we need to do whatever it takes to achieve that. Style and the rest is a concern for another time.

[Pants Shaton]

Just now, Nelly Terraces said:

Correct, they won't win many games - but can we? I honestly have my doubts.

 

What gets me us this is all so preventable, we have the personnel to win matches & all it needs is a more pragmatic approach to our setup & an understanding that we need maximum effort in every moment of every game. I honestly don't think that much to ask, or beyond us. 

I just worry that if Stendel and our players don’t get it now - when will they ever?

 

No ‘bounce’ when he came in.

 

No major improvements with the players brought in (Boyce excepted).

 

 

[Holyrood_Hearts]

37 minutes ago, McCrae said:

Agreed. He is there because we have been forced to play Smith in midfield.

I’d be bringing in Brandon to play RB

[Holyrood_Hearts]

34 minutes ago, rick witter said:

They came about as we had an extra man on an extremely heavy pitch. 
The first goal was a good goal to be fair but we completely ran out of ideas and just shunted it wide  time after time and put crosses into the box. Luckily one of the crosses resulted in a goal. 

****ing hell. Isn’t putting crosses into the box creating chances?

[jambo_74]

4 minutes ago, Pants Shaton said:

I just worry that if Stendel and our players don’t get it now - when will they ever?

 

No ‘bounce’ when he came in.

 

No major improvements with the players brought in (Boyce excepted).

 

 

Our problem is when we don't score goals we ship easily preventable ones, when we do score goals we do exactly the same.  Our possession stats are ridiculously good since Stendel came in, even our shots per game ratio is acceptable. The fundamental issue is the style we have adopted is leaving us susceptible to counter attacks. In the Rangers game we defended last ditch and got away with it. Against other teams recently we simply ran out of luck.

 

The gegenpressing style which works so well for Liverpool is simply too difficult to cultivate with the players at our disposal. Liverpool spent over 150 million to secure the services of arguably the best CH and the best GK in the world to practice the level of football they are now showing week in week out. It will take months to drill players with limited ability to play out from the back comfortably. Equally pushing fullbacks high up the pitch relies on talented midfielders with exceptional reading of the game when the ball is turned over. I love the style, however, I fear we simply do not have the personnel to implement such a forward thinking philosophy.

 

I hope to be proved wrong over the coming weeks, but make no mistake, anything less than a win  against St Mirren will do much more harm to squad morale than a lack of points on the board. It might be worthwhile setting up to counter over the coming games. Solid back four or five, press from the front only on possession loss, let the defence drop back into shape. Summer can be the time to implement the more radical changes Stendel would like to utilise. 

[Jambof3tornado]

55 minutes ago, Redhelen said:

How did the 2 goals Hearts scored come about if there was no fight?

They came about because hamilton had been reduced to 10 men and were forced to sit back. It was a must win game and we once again didnt look as focused as our opponents.

 

I want stendel to stay no matter what , I want him to succeed, I want him to get a proper window to make the changes needed to fix leveins mess but time is running out.

[jock _turd]

See if we win the next two games ......

[Gabriel]

Plenty fight and spirit. That was evident against St. Johnstone, Hamilton, and even in the fag end of the Kilmarnock game. Against Rangers we also showed plenty of spirit. What we lack, however, is composure at the back and disciplined defending, which involves keeping shape and winning individual match ups. Until we exhibit more of that, we’ll continue to put ourselves at a disadvantage.

[McCrae]

2 hours ago, Holyrood_Hearts said:

I’d be bringing in Brandon to play RB

I think he is a better option than Clare. We have to stop leaking goals.

[His name is]

The last 2 seasons have been tight at the bottom. 

 

2018/19
Hamilton 33 (9 wins)
St Mirren 32 (8)
Dundee 21 (5)

 

2017/18
Hamilton 33 (9)
Partick 33 (8)
Ross Co 29 (6)

 

The current table is:

 

St Mirren 22 (5)

Hamilton 20 (4)

Hearts 19 (3)

 

I would suggest we need 33 points to be totally safe, another 14 points from our remaining12 games. 4 wins + 2 draws. 

 

Yesterday was a big dent in our battle for safety, but the point, especially against the team above us, may go a long way In our season. 

 

A win on Friday would be huge for our chances, if not just for our confidence. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Musemic]

I admire the optimism of everyone who seems convinced we won't go down but I don't share that optimism I'm afraid. It's not like we have a long injury list and our bad form is just a recent thing, we've been awful for 16 months now and the change of manager hasn't had the desired effect of points on the board. I'm old enough to remember the yo-yo days of the late 70s/early 80s when we got relegated and had a squad full of journeymen. We now have half a dozen (or more?) full internationalists and several others who've represented their country at age-group levels in our squad yet we still find ourselves propping up the table because these guys seem incapable of performing to their capabilities. Sadly, I saw nothing yesterday to suggest we can turn things round. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

  

[Cruyff]

29 minutes ago, McCrae said:

I think he is a better option than Clare. We have to stop leaking goals.

****in hell. 

[Morgan]

30 minutes ago, McCrae said:

I think he is a better option than Clare. We have to stop leaking goals.

You what?

 

[Ex member of the SaS]

Stendel's philosophy is to attack, get stuck in and win the ball back when you lose it. What part of that do the payers not understand? How can professional players not know that to win the ball you have to tackle the opposition when they have the ball. Too often we run away when they have the ball or put in a half hearted tackle and let them run on. What happened to having energy and fight what happened to their professional pride?

If they can't tackle or make a simple pass why the feck are we paying them a king's ransom?

[Bluesy1874]

We have been the worste team in the league for well over a season. If we go down we will thoroughly deserve too. 

 

I however think we will finish 11th and win the play off. 

[McCrae]

15 minutes ago, Morgan said:

You what?

 

Clare is a terrible defender. That contributed to the penalty. He was caught out of possession for the first Hamilton goal. It’s no surprise that most of Hamilton’s attacks were focused on his side of the pitch.

Do you think he is a good defender?

Edited February 16, 2020 by McCrae

[McCrae]

18 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

****in hell. 

Are you saying Clare is a good defender?

[stan]

It's not a lack of fight or working hard that's our problem. It's the absence of composure and shape when we're faced with any attack.

 

St Johnstone, Killie, Hamilton have all made identical fast counters and we've been unable to cope. Address that immediately (keeping Perreira off the pitch) and we have a chance.

More of the same and we're going down.

[TheTrumpet]

31 minutes ago, Musemic said:

I admire the optimism of everyone who seems convinced we won't go down but I don't share that optimism I'm afraid. It's not like we have a long injury list and our bad form is just a recent thing, we've been awful for 16 months now and the change of manager hasn't had the desired effect of points on the board. I'm old enough to remember the yo-yo days of the late 70s/early 80s when we got relegated and had a squad full of journeymen. We now have half a dozen (or more?) full internationalists and several others who've represented their country at age-group levels in our squad yet we still find ourselves propping up the table because these guys seem incapable of performing to their capabilities. Sadly, I saw nothing yesterday to suggest we can turn things round. I sincerely hope I'm wrong.

  

I do wish people would stop saying 'a team full of internationals' like there's a couple of Brazilians or Italians in the team. It's a handful of guys that play for two teams that are utter dross, only one of them plays like Wimbledon in the 80's so manage to grind out results. These are not flair players, I'm not even sure what a Conor Washington is for? Keeping the grass low buy running around a lot with little end product? Michael Smith is a solid defender, that's it. And Naismith is good on his day, when he's in the mood and fit. This international chat is pretty redundant when you look at the teams they play for.

[Cruyff]

14 minutes ago, McCrae said:

Are you saying Clare is a good defender?

He's the best choice for that position.

He's miles better than Brandon and he offers more than Smith going forward, granted Smith is a better defender. 

[Niemi’s gloves]

Quote

23 minutes ago, Bluesy1874 said:

We have been the worste team in the league for well over a season. If we go down we will thoroughly deserve too. 

 

I however think we will finish 11th and win the play off. 

 

I don’t think that’s quite right. Last season from the start of a November (when our wheels fell off) through to the split we took 24 points from 22 games whereas St Mirren took 17 and Hamilton 18. Add that to the points so far this season gives:

 

Hearts 43 points

St Mirren 39 points ( but a game in hand)

Hamilton 38 points

 

Add to that we have had cup runs which neither of those clubs have. I don’t think we “thoroughly deserve” to go down.

 

(note that I have omitted the post split games last year but that is necessary if you want to compare like with like)

 

[annushorribilis III]

32 minutes ago, TheTrumpet said:

I do wish people would stop saying 'a team full of internationals' like there's a couple of Brazilians or Italians in the team. It's a handful of guys that play for two teams that are utter dross, only one of them plays like Wimbledon in the 80's so manage to grind out results. These are not flair players, I'm not even sure what a Conor Washington is for? Keeping the grass low buy running around a lot with little end product? Michael Smith is a solid defender, that's it. And Naismith is good on his day, when he's in the mood and fit. This international chat is pretty redundant when you look at the teams they play for.

This.

The team/squad is full of bang average players at best. 

This international chat is pretty redundant when you look at the ...league position. 

 

 

[annushorribilis III]

22 minutes ago, Niemi’s gloves said:

I don’t think that’s quite right. Last season from the start of a November (when our wheels fell off) through to the split we took 24 points from 22 games whereas St Mirren took 17 and Hamilton 18. Add that to the points so far this season gives:

 

Hearts 43 points

St Mirren 39 points ( but a game in hand)

Hamilton 38 points

 

Add to that we have had cup runs which neither of those clubs have. I don’t think we “thoroughly deserve” to go down.

 

(note that I have omitted the post split games last year but that is necessary if you want to compare like with like)

 

There's pointless then there's this. 

[Niemi’s gloves]

19 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

There's pointless then there's this. 

So do you think that Hearts thoroughly deserve to go down? Or is it just that you don’t like it when someone is able to disprove your prejudiced assertions ( as I did on another thread)?

[bigsuperslim1874]

Stendel tactics isn’t/wasn’t to blame yesterday - it was players playing like total donuts which got us in trouble.

 

See all this pish about his style not suiting us etc - maybe if our defenders actually did the bloody basics we’d be fine. Nothing about his tactics made Souttar turn in an absolutely horrific performance meaning he was culpable in the build-up for both goals (with Clare putting in a god awful tackle meaning a pen was 100% gonna be given). Stendel is bang on with his comments - the players are being punished for almost every mistake. They NEED to cut out the mistakes but don’t let the media fool you into believing every mistake is a result of ‘Stendels tactics’ some are (and that’s the gamble of the style) but the majority are goalie blunders or defending like total amateurs like yesterday by folk who should know better.
 

And whilst I’m venting - see all this pish about ‘if Hamilton had kept 11 men on they would have won....’ who’s fault is it that they broke the rules to avoid Boyce a 1 on 1? Tough titty - and Stendel was right to say it’s not his problem the player slapped the ball to get sent off. Goggle-yaks Sutherland was being a snidey wee shite during that interview with his questioning and tone.

 

When all is said and done, we need to rally round and support the manager (all this chat about Robbo being brought in depresses me) and the players to get out this mess and go again in the summer.

[MarkyMark 1874]

The way I see it, is that this team are incapable of playing the style DS wants them to play, if we're going to Insist on playing this geggenpress we need at least 2 national standard sprinters at the back.We don't have that and until that's fixed, leaking needless goals are a thing we better get used to. 

My opinion, forget geggenpress,play bog standard 442 nothing fancy, the standard of team we put out is more that capable of beating most of the other teams in this league on a weekly basis. This is the only way we will be in the premiership next season, carry on with DS playing style, we're going down ! IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE ! 

When we get to the end of the season, 2 weeks holiday, then spend the rest of the closed season building a team capable of playing DS style, and see how that goes, if it still isn't working 4 or 5 games into next season, get rid of DS survive the season and build for the following season, the problems we have in the team are not going to be solved tinkering with the players, and it's not going to be quick . (note to DS, stop signing players who used to play for you)

So Hearts fans, get ready for the long slog and a lot of disappointment !

Stendels record so far is actually worse than our previous worst manager ever ! If we want to survive in this league, we MUST abort geggenpress and resort to 442.

[JustinT]

Friday is a massive game for us and if we approach it in the right vein and better tactics I think we could win it. We normally have decent possession percentage wise and with calmer heads use it more wisely and efficiently. Sometimes we look like headless chickens chasing everything and it appears rushed and full of anxiety. We need someone in midfield to control the flow of the game better and calm things down a lot more. Work the tactics over the full 90 minutes.

Edited February 16, 2020 by JustinT

[jr ewing]

Don't see any more wins this season. 

[Jambof3tornado]

6 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Stendel obviously. not Boyce!

Why wouldnt we keep stendel and allow him a proper window to make the changes needed? Most of this squad are the ones that have been crap for over a year.Would also see us bring in a proper sporting Director.

[Mr Elwood P]

3 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Why wouldnt we keep stendel and allow him a proper window to make the changes needed? Most of this squad are the ones that have been crap for over a year.Would also see us bring in a proper sporting Director.

Why would we keep a manager that will have been in charge for the majority of the season, if he gets us relegated? The signings of Avidjaj and Langer fill me with no confidence that he can bring in the correct players to play his system. As far as I’m concerned if we stay up, he gets a full season and another two transfer windows. If we get relegated it’s P45 for Mr Stendel.

[Ethan Hunt]

5 hours ago, rick witter said:

They came about as we had an extra man on an extremely heavy pitch. 
The first goal was a good goal to be fair but we completely ran out of ideas and just shunted it wide  time after time and put crosses into the box. Luckily one of the crosses resulted in a goal. 

So that wasn’t the object - to cross into the box and score - it was just luck??

 

 FFS we have some clueless feckers who supposedly support us.

[Ethan Hunt]

5 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

Why would we keep a manager that will have been in charge for the majority of the season, if he gets us relegated? The signings of Avidjaj and Langer fill me with no confidence that he can bring in the correct players to play his system. As far as I’m concerned if we stay up, he gets a full season and another two transfer windows. If we get relegated it’s P45 for Mr Stendel.

That could literally come down to one goal. You would sack or keep a manager on the strength of one goal? Get a fecking grip of yourself FFS!

[Mr Elwood P]

1 minute ago, Ethan Hunt said:

That could literally come down to one goal. You would sack or keep a manager on the strength of one goal? Get a fecking grip of yourself FFS!

If Hearts get relegated, the manager gets sacked. All on here wanted Levein sacked for finishing 6th and reaching a League Cup semi final and a Scottish Cup final. How can you possibly justify not sacking Stendel if we go down?