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2 minutes ago, FWJ said:

And that Doc Holliday was a dentist.  He was a bit of a rum cove.

Probably took a few people’s teeth out, one way or another 😏

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Anyone know the script about the “ Polwarth tavern “ ? I went passed tonight and flowers everywhere and Hearts scarfs ? Hopefully it’s not closed for good ? Or maybe a regular died ? 

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14 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

There was never a band called Dentist Hook either. Tells you a lot imo. 

Nor was there a ‘Dentist John! The Night Tripper’.

 

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9 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

Back on topic. Interesting article in the Telegraph. No doubt some will rubbish this Dr John Lee as well but he is a Pathologist

 

 

Just a bit of paper apparently.

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Nucky Thompson
2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

 Or maybe a regular died ? 

That sounds most likely

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1 minute ago, FWJ said:

Just a bit of paper apparently.

Yep, all qualifications are to be disregarded in the land of kickback. 

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2 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

That sounds most likely

Yes I thought so 

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coconut doug
50 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Your desperation to defend JL and NS is admirable, if ever so slightly sycophantic. :) 

 

 

 

IMO

 

I have no desperation. Even the leader of the Scottish conservatives has said that NS is a good communicator. I think most reasonable people would agree with that. As you have only seen Leitch once maybe that wasn't representative of his general performance. He is on quite a lot though, apparently, i wonder why.

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On Reporting Glasgow tonight, claims that local politicians in Glasgow and Aberdeen are whinging about the Tier they’ve been allocated to.

When is  McVey going to protest on behalf of the citizens and businesses of Edinburgh?

 

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1 minute ago, weehammy said:

On Reporting Glasgow tonight, claims that local politicians in Glasgow and Aberdeen are whinging about the Tier they’ve been allocated to.

When is  McVey going to protest on behalf of the citizens and businesses of Edinburgh?

 

Will just be glad the current crisis has probably took folks minds off another petition demanding he resign. 

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Janbo1874
6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Anyone know the script about the “ Polwarth tavern “ ? I went passed tonight and flowers everywhere and Hearts scarfs ? Hopefully it’s not closed for good ? Or maybe a regular died ? 

Alan Laidlaw the co owner of the Polwarth along with Ben sadly passed away suddenly yesterday.

I thought of posting a new thread about it because I know a lot of Hearts fans drank it there on matchdays.

A good Jambo and season ticket holder and helped raise funds for Save Our Hearts with Rudi pulling pints behind the bar.

 

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coconut doug
51 minutes ago, weehammy said:

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz'!!!!!!!!!
Sorry to disappoint re. the derogatory comment. Beginning to feel my life ebbing away.

 

It's almost as if you're not able to explain what you meant.

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14 minutes ago, weehammy said:

Nor was there a ‘Dentist John! The Night Tripper’.

 

The plot thickens 

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Toxteth O'Grady
1 hour ago, fancy a brew said:

My issue with Leitch is that he gives the impression that he is living the dream right now, cometh the hour cometh the man.

Absolutely exemplified by his acceptance of an award whilst folk are seriously ill, dying and losing livelihoods all over the country.

Meanwhile Jason is over the moon to be honoured for doing his well paid job.

Read the room Jason.

Pity they didn't teach that at Harvard.

 

You couldn’t be more wrong.

 

They tried him for one of the TV adverts and he did it in one take. So they keep using him for media stuff.

 

He’d like nothing more than to be unknown again. I’ve been told this from a very good friend who works close to him. 

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Weakened Offender
4 minutes ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

You couldn’t be more wrong.

 

They tried him for one of the TV adverts and he did it in one take. So they keep using him for media stuff.

 

He’d like nothing more than to be unknown again. I’ve been told this from a very good friend who works close to him. 

 

You're wasting your time with the poisonous vermin on this thread pal. 

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Seymour M Hersh
21 minutes ago, FWJ said:

Just a bit of paper apparently.

 

But so much more relevant. 

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Toxteth O'Grady
10 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

You're wasting your time with the poisonous vermin on this thread pal. 

Probably - I can’t say I like the messenger of bad news nor his nasal weedgie accent  but I wouldn’t knock him for doing what he has been asked to do. 

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fancy a brew
16 minutes ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

You couldn’t be more wrong.

 

They tried him for one of the TV adverts and he did it in one take. So they keep using him for media stuff.

 

He’d like nothing more than to be unknown again. I’ve been told this from a very good friend who works close to him. 

 

Just my opinion of how he comes across, however if Jason wants nothing more than a swift return to obscurity, then probably best not accept awards while people are dying, looks a bit crass and needy, and of course he will be hating the limelight accepting this award entailed.😉

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27 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

I have no desperation.

Your posts suggest otherwise, even if unintentional, sorry. :( 

 

Even the leader of the Scottish conservatives has said that NS is a good communicator. A compliment from that wee flag-waving toad is hardly a glowing endorsement. 😛 

 

I think most reasonable people would agree with that. As you have only seen Leitch once maybe that wasn't representative of his general performance. He is on quite a lot though, apparently, i wonder why. Probably because, deep down, the allure of suddenly being very visible and important is quite seductive. 🤔

 

And, in addition to the above... If JL is so desperate to get back into the shadows - as TO'G alludes to - then he should do that. Or does he have some kind of sense of 'duty' to ensure the poor wee Scots don't stand less than 2m apart as they're queuing up for the their Victory Gin rations come the spring? Like NS, I have no doubt that he believes he's doing good. Such people are quite often the ones who, like moral crusaders before them, unintentionally, do plenty harm.

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47 minutes ago, Janbo1874 said:

Alan Laidlaw the co owner of the Polwarth along with Ben sadly passed away suddenly yesterday.

I thought of posting a new thread about it because I know a lot of Hearts fans drank it there on matchdays.

A good Jambo and season ticket holder and helped raise funds for Save Our Hearts with Rudi pulling pints behind the bar.

 

Unsure who he is but may be the guy who was always there ? Did the quiz night late 50s , that’s awful news 

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1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

Back on topic. Interesting article in the Telegraph. No doubt some will rubbish this Dr John Lee as well but he is a Pathologist. 

 

This year, like many years, there’s a new respiratory virus on the block. But this year, unlike any year ever before, the world has gone mad. Governments around the world have decided that their remit extends to micromanaging risk on behalf of everybody, for just about everything: where and when you can travel, what you must wear, what you can buy. Even in your own home, for goodness sake, amongst your own family, the state thinks it is “right” to regulate who you mix with, who you can see and who you can touch.

How did we come to this? Could such an approach ever be regarded as genuinely reasonable? To be honest, I think that it would be a stretch under any circumstances. But I could envisage a situation where a new pathogen was so nasty – say highly transmissible and reliably killing 30 per cent of people of all ages that it infected – that the very fabric of society would be at stake unless the state acted decisively.

But even in such dire circumstances the state would need to understand very clearly indeed what it was doing, in order to be absolutely sure that compelling populations to act in one way or another would definitely cause less harm than giving people the facts and letting them make their own decisions about risk. After all, what other justification could there reasonably be for trying to restrictively rewrite the rulebook of human interaction?

Of course, this has been tried before for all sorts of ideological reasons, and resulted in a 100 per cent track record of failure and disaster; responsible for untold misery, suffering, tragedy and deaths. One would have thought that there is a lesson there somewhere. Suffice it to say that Covid is orders of magnitude away from causing the level of societal damage that would justify even considering such a response.

Current consensus on the infection fatality rate (which has been continually falling as better data arrives) is 0.2 per cent. When we look back at this period any visible mortality signal will be well within the envelope of the last 30 years when deaths caused by lockdown are excluded. The average age of death from Covid is actually above the average age of death from all causes.

So why are governments around the world persisting in, and indeed elaborating, responses that are progressively being seen, as evidence accumulates, to be fundamentally wrong?

You don’t have to listen too hard to hear the sound of many, many pigeons coming home to roost simultaneously. I think this is why it has been so hard to explain what is happening, and why so many people remain deeply unsure as to what the right course of action should be. Any given article or interview tends to deal with only one or two key points, leaving so many unanswered questions for most people that doubt and confusion fill the gaps. Neither governments nor their advisors seem able to see the big picture, let alone explain it. So here is my attempt to assemble, in one place, the most important of the very many drivers of the Covid response. 

1. Preconceptions

Current ideas about how to “control” viruses are based on Spanish flu, smallpox, SARS, MERS, HIV, influenza and Ebola, among others. This coronavirus isn’t the same as any of them. The idea of “controlling” an airborne, easily transmissible virus on a population basis, beloved of “public health” “experts”, is largely myth, based on mediocre observational or questionnaire-based studies using unverified and unverifiable methods.

2. Incorrect framing

Television pictures from China, Italy and New York painted a picture of a deadly new global plague and were highly instrumental in determining the initial response. But TV pictures are highly selective and often unrepresentative, as was the case with coronavirus. Months ago, real-world evidence conclusively disproved initial perceptions of this virus, yet the initial framing still seems to be a key driver of government responses around the world.


3. Fear

It is a strong and evolutionarily valuable human emotion. Broadcast and social media are effective in maintaining it, especially with government backing aimed at generating the “correct” reactions from people. Written media is often more nuanced and thoughtful, but narrower in appeal, and slower to take effect. It has struggled to balance the broadcast narrative, which has thrived on highly selective presentation of information.

4. Poor quality data

The prerequisite for our current shambles of rubbish-in, rubbish-out, affecting all areas of our understanding of Covid. Suspension of peer review in the name of speed has removed a crucial quality control, undermining much research in the field and encouraging false consensus.

5. Excessive risk aversion

The anti-scientific Precautionary Principle has become so entrenched in public decision-making that it seems almost normal to respond to an unquantified threat with responses that have had no prior assessment for either effectiveness or harm.

6. Suppression of debate

In their eagerness to entrench the “right” course of action, governments have radically reduced the chances of it being found by suppressing contrary views. There is also an inability to have a grown-up and measured public conversation about human lifespan, illness and death. What does “saving lives” actually mean? Whose lives, and saved for what? And where is the discussion about quality of life? Old people do die, and we all are, in fact, more susceptible to dying of everything with advancing age. Covid is no exception to this.

7. Flawed testing

Detailed technical problems with the rapid development and mass rollout of tests (by technicians who are often marginally trained), without a sound biological understanding of the tests’ basis or meaning. Few are armed with the knowledge needed to understand (among other things) the technical subtleties of PCR or antibody tests, the meaning (if any) of weak positives, the relevance of antibodies versus T-cell reactions, the statistical invalidities of test and trace, the inadequacies of death certification, or the details of why get-out-of-jail-via-vaccination has such a low probability of success. These details matter.

 
8. Perpetually moving goalposts

Save the NHS, save lives, reduce “cases”, reduce positive tests, “control” the virus….

9. Focus on a single threat

And the virtual exclusion of everything else. How “public health” doctors can claim to be protecting “public health” with this approach seems incomprehensible, as well as being medically negligent.

 
10. Skewed motives

Political desire to be seen to be taking action. Media-driven and short-term, taking action is apparently politically desirable even if it means subjecting entire populations to experimental, unverifiable, oppressive methods of viral “control”. This also mirrors a cultural divide in medicine between interventionists and nihilists. 

There are probably more drivers of the Covid response that could be listed, but you can see the many-tentacled head of the medusa that is petrifying society.  It seems pretty clear that if we are asked to make major sacrifices there should be solid, quantifiable evidence of benefit to justify them. Unfortunately the solid, quantifiable evidence of benefit of the current approach to Covid simply does not exist.

The secrecy surrounding the basis for the government’s decisions speaks volumes. In fact, real-world data suggests that the harms caused by current actions outweigh the benefits when measured even in terms of deaths, and massively outweigh the benefits when measured in terms of quality of life – which, after all, is central to the human experience at all ages.

How can we know what would have happened if we had never locked down? The simple answer is that, for our particular circumstances, we cannot know for sure. But countries which have not enforced lockdowns, of which Sweden is the nearest, have not been noticeable outliers in terms of deaths or illness. 

More importantly, by allowing the virus to spread in the way that viruses do, these places are now in a much better position than countries which made major economic sacrifices, but still have to face the virus. Lockdowns may (perhaps) slow down slightly our arrival at herd immunity (through exposure of a large enough proportion of the population), but we will all get there in the end.

The only differences will be the extent of the own goals caused along the way by restrictions. Countries that have isolated themselves, such as New Zealand, will have to face the virus in due course or remain isolated from the world (their only get-out-of-jail-free card would be an effective vaccine). Yet the costs of such isolation seem highly suspect, since data suggests that very few cases of Covid are caught or spread by travellers. This virus has already circled the globe while we have been largely staying put. So we might as well start travelling again, since the risks, in a majority of countries, are rather similar.

So how can we find the right way forward? Revocation of progressively inappropriate emergency powers, with restoration of parliamentary scrutiny, accountability, transparency and debate must be part of it, along with involvement of a more diverse base of scientific and medical advisors.

If the NHS is struggling for capacity – which is debatable, and anyway substantially due to self-imposed rules related to “controlling” Covid – then sort it out: build more capacity, and remind NHS workers that they are there to look after the sick. 

The bottom line is that, at the present time, there is no reasonable scientific or medical justification for lockdowns, convoluted social distancing rules, masks, travel restrictions, quarantines or most of the rest of the flotsam that has attached itself to the Covid response. The sky is not falling. And the more people who understand the multifaceted reasons why this is the case, the sooner we will all get our lives back.

 

 

 

I hope nobody quotes this epic post. 😁

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Enzo Chiefo

The R number has dropped in England for the 2nd week in a row. Of today's 274 deaths, each one of course sad, 98.5% had underlying health conditions.  That's been pretty much the story since March. 

Good news today from the front line in my localTesco. When I visited this evening, the manager was throwing out those who were not wearing masks.  At least 4 teenagers and one in their 20s, each one was approached and asked if they had a mask. Obviously they didn't,  so they were escorted out the door.  It's taken a while but, at last, those who are flouting the rules are now getting told. Politicians and scientists,  appealing, as Sturgeon did yesterday for "love, compassion and solidarity" are thankfully being usurped by a bit of good old-fashioned enforcement.  

 

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1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

 

It's almost as if you're not able to explain what you meant.

Musing...............still musing....................still......m.................zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Some SAGE members reckon England needs to lockdown for 4 - 6 weeks because the Tory pals 12bn quid 2007 MS excel track and trace is bloody useless and hopefully in that time period someone will take charge and fix it.

 

 

Edited by DETTY29
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56 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

Why are so many folk bitterly jealous of Jason Leitch? 

I’m certainly jealous of his chestnut brown hair. Very impressive for a guy in his 50s and much nicer than my salt and pepper look.

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Victorian
54 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

Why are so many folk bitterly jealous of Jason Leitch? 

 

I'm thinking it's because he's part of the governmental strategy that they're desperate to discredit.  

 

Amirite?

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4 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The R number has dropped in England for the 2nd week in a row. Of today's 274 deaths, each one of course sad, 98.5% had underlying health conditions.  That's been pretty much the story since March. 

Good news today from the front line in my localTesco. When I visited this evening, the manager was throwing out those who were not wearing masks.  At least 4 teenagers and one in their 20s, each one was approached and asked if they had a mask. Obviously they didn't,  so they were escorted out the door.  It's taken a while but, at last, those who are flouting the rules are now getting told. Politicians and scientists,  appealing, as Sturgeon did yesterday for "love, compassion and solidarity" are thankfully being usurped by a bit of good old-fashioned enforcement.  

 

On an unrelated note, I got my lovely new Scottish Government mask exemption card yesterday. 

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AlphonseCapone
3 minutes ago, weehammy said:

I’m certainly jealous of his chestnut brown hair. Very impressive for a guy in his 50s and much nicer than my salt and pepper look.

 

Found a couple of greys the other day, early thirties. Can't see anything but pure silver by my 50's. Flowing locks at least. 

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11 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The R number has dropped in England for the 2nd week in a row. Of today's 274 deaths, each one of course sad, 98.5% had underlying health conditions.  That's been pretty much the story since March. 

Good news today from the front line in my localTesco. When I visited this evening, the manager was throwing out those who were not wearing masks.  At least 4 teenagers and one in their 20s, each one was approached and asked if they had a mask. Obviously they didn't,  so they were escorted out the door.  It's taken a while but, at last, those who are flouting the rules are now getting told. Politicians and scientists,  appealing, as Sturgeon did yesterday for "love, compassion and solidarity" are thankfully being usurped by a bit of good old-fashioned enforcement.  

 

That's good news on R rate.

 

But I suppose it's working because of the restrictions asked of us which isn't  great for wider society and economy.  

 

Edit - isn't it about 4 weeks since the PM informed the UK that no more could open and only expect the tightening of restrictions.

 

Edited by DETTY29
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1 hour ago, AlphonseCapone said:

Why are so many folk bitterly jealous of Jason Leitch? 

Disappointed in him, not jealous.

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1 minute ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Found a couple of greys the other day, early thirties. Can't see anything but pure silver by my 50's. Flowing locks at least. 

I tell people I’m really Hannibal Smith from the A-Team.

 

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AlphonseCapone
1 minute ago, jonesy said:

Disappointed in him, not jealous.

 

Bad filling? 

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Just now, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Bad filling? 

Nah, he didn't turn up for our Harvard alumni coffee morning.

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7 minutes ago, jonesy said:

On an unrelated note, I got my lovely new Scottish Government mask exemption card yesterday. 

Because of the stupidity of the self(ish) regulation process the SG have introduced or because health wise, it causes you respiratory issues?  

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2 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Because of the stupidity of the self(ish) regulation process the SG have introduced or because health wise, it causes you respiratory issues?  

Yes :) 😷

Edited by jonesy
extra smiley
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19 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

I'm thinking it's because he's part of the governmental strategy that they're desperate to discredit.  

 

Amirite?

You think they’re being strategic?:wow:

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Enzo Chiefo
Just now, jonesy said:

On an unrelated note, I got my lovely new Scottish Government mask exemption card yesterday. 

Totally related Jonesy😄. I appreciate that some people, for whatever reason, are exempt and I am not having a go at them. But I've seen several couples in their 20s/30s in Tesco, with neither wearing masks, strutting about. They're at it and need told. No mask, no service.  

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Nucky Thompson
29 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Some SAGE members reckon England needs to lockdown for 4 - 6 weeks because the Tory pals 12bn quid 2007 MS excel track and trace is bloody useless and hopefully in that time period someone will take charge and fix it.

 

 

They are trying to bully the Tories into a full lockdown.

 

Won't happen :verysmug:

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3 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Yes and no?

 

 

;)

 

 

Without wishing to use JKB as platform to formally disclose the status of my health (physical or mental), masks, and the wearing of them for more than approximately a minute, cause me severe distress, yes.

 

I don't agree that it should be self-regulated, nor do I, by law, require the card. Indeed, nor should anyone be challenged (routinely) for not wearing a mask. To mitigate this, I have been in very few supermarkets since March, and feel very aware of people watching and judging, as is apparently their prerogative in a world in which we have been encouraged to distrust those not following guidance.

 

It's an interesting bind the government find themselves in with this one - in a world of (government-supported) increasing self-identification and fear of discrimination by accident, they'd be on pretty shaky ground if they demanded a physical and psychological examination to establish the veracity of claims of severe distress (although benefit spongers appear a legitimate target for such an approach, so perhaps not so shaky after all) . Anyway, in other words, feckum.

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13 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Screenshot_20201030-222854_Twitter.jpg

That's a shitter for essential shops, but a surprise bonus for the non-essentials, I guess. Kind of a like Welsh regulations in reverse. Tampons all round, but no crisps.

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11 minutes ago, jonesy said:

That's a shitter for essential shops, but a surprise bonus for the non-essentials, I guess. Kind of a like Welsh regulations in reverse. Tampons all round, but no crisps.

Maybe its revenge on the supermarkets who are one of the industries to benefit, or at worst, least impacted by this shitfest, still managed to whine their selfish arses off in Wales last week.

 

(Of course, some of the 'non essential' items decisions were ridiculous)

Edited by DETTY29
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14 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Without wishing to use JKB as platform to formally disclose the status of my health (physical or mental), masks, and the wearing of them for more than approximately a minute, cause me severe distress, yes.

 

I don't agree that it should be self-regulated, nor do I, by law, require the card. Indeed, nor should anyone be challenged (routinely) for not wearing a mask. To mitigate this, I have been in very few supermarkets since March, and feel very aware of people watching and judging, as is apparently their prerogative in a world in which we have been encouraged to distrust those not following guidance.

 

It's an interesting bind the government find themselves in with this one - in a world of (government-supported) increasing self-identification and fear of discrimination by accident, they'd be on pretty shaky ground if they demanded a physical and psychological examination to establish the veracity of claims of severe distress (although benefit spongers appear a legitimate target for such an approach, so perhaps not so shaky after all) . Anyway, in other words, feckum.

👍

 

I think on the face if it, its ridiculous that it is self regulated but I'm sure the SG , NHS Scotland and so on took into account the impact on resources of e.g GP sign off required.

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