Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Heartsmad1874]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

Over the last 7 days, new infections per-100,000 (over the whole week, divide by 7 for the daily average):

 

Dundee 214, Perth & Kinross 72, Angus 62.

 

Seriously what are folk in Dundee doing to be that bad  

[graygo]

9 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Over the last 7 days, new infections per-100,000 (over the whole week, divide by 7 for the daily average):

 

Dundee 214, Perth & Kinross 72, Angus 62.

 

Ok, not almost all but the majority.

[Victorian]

16 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Bloody hell. Vic, it's that kind of meek, acquiescent attitude that allows governments to do whatever they want, move goalposts all over the shop and generally treat people like shite. You cannot possibly justify Edinburgh being treated the same as Glasgow in this context. In fact, given the state the country is now in, nobody should pay attention to a single word that comes out of the their lying mouths.

 

You're either at the wind up now or indicative of how well the fearmongers have done in their desire to create a house-bound, screen-based society. Do you and JiH do wee Zoom calls to decide who's going to post the saddest posts of the day?

 

Neither.  Swing and a miss.  Nope,  the zeitgeist seems to be to no longer give a **** about anyone else so I'm just following suit.  I'm in no desperate rush to get back to the pub so I'm quite happy if tier 3 comes in for a short time to consolidate what looks like a levelling out of the spike.  I'm extremely keen to see us being able to get back to some normality in the longer term.  I'm beginning to really miss the freedom of being able to do things.  The way I see it,  we'll only get there much later on and only if there's a concerted effort to stamp down hard on the virus.  I'll continue to take the short term pain for the longer term gain.

 

 

[Victorian]

26 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Bloody hell. Vic, it's that kind of meek, acquiescent attitude that allows governments to do whatever they want, move goalposts all over the shop and generally treat people like shite. You cannot possibly justify Edinburgh being treated the same as Glasgow in this context. In fact, given the state the country is now in, nobody should pay attention to a single word that comes out of the their lying mouths.

 

You're either at the wind up now or indicative of how well the fearmongers have done in their desire to create a house-bound, screen-based society. Do you and JiH do wee Zoom calls to decide who's going to post the saddest posts of the day?

 

Just read this again and you're out of order to be honest.  You're a bit of a hysterical fool sometimes.  

[Heartsmad1874]

4 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Neither.  Swing and a miss.  Nope,  the zeitgeist seems to be to no longer give a **** about anyone else so I'm just following suit.  I'm in no desperate rush to get back to the pub so I'm quite happy if tier 3 comes in for a short time to consolidate what looks like a levelling out of the spike.  I'm extremely keen to see us being able to get back to some normality in the longer term.  I'm beginning to really miss the freedom of being able to do things.  The way I see it,  we'll only get there much later on and only if there's a concerted effort to stamp down hard on the virus.  I'll continue to take the short term pain for the longer term gain.

 

 

How many life's and jobs will be lost needlessly, because of these restrictions  in yours and the governments fantasy of stamping down/totally eliminating the virus?

Edited October 26, 2020 by Heartsmad1874

[redjambo]

9 minutes ago, graygo said:

Ok, not almost all but the majority.

 

Dundee has 64% of cases in Tayside over the last week. I posted the earlier stats not to counter your comment but to back up the fact that Dundee was probably deserving of special treatment in relation to the rest of its NHS region.

Edited October 26, 2020 by redjambo

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

How many life's and jobs will be lost in yours and the governments fantasy of stamping down/totally eliminating the virus?

 

Elimination is not what I said so that looks like your fantasy,  not mine.

 

Stamping down hard = making a proper effort to drive it down to the level we saw in the summer.  It was done then so it can be done again.  No fantasy.

Edited October 26, 2020 by Victorian

[Taffin]

They may take our lives, but they will never take out fre...

 

Nice paradox.

[Robbofan99]

31 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Bloody hell. Vic, it's that kind of meek, acquiescent attitude that allows governments to do whatever they want, move goalposts all over the shop and generally treat people like shite. You cannot possibly justify Edinburgh being treated the same as Glasgow in this context. In fact, given the state the country is now in, nobody should pay attention to a single word that comes out of the their lying mouths.

 

You're either at the wind up now or indicative of how well the fearmongers have done in their desire to create a house-bound, screen-based society. Do you and JiH do wee Zoom calls to decide who's going to post the saddest posts of the day?

Exactly I felt his post was a tad optimistic and showing too much deference to this scum Govt. 

[Heartsmad1874]

4 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Elimination is not what I said so that looks like your fantasy,  not mine.

 

Stamping down hard = making a proper effort to drive it down to the level we saw in the summer.  It was done then so it can be done again.  No fantasy.

Elimination was something NS talked about after seeing New Zealands efforts. Thats why i said yours and the governments .

 

We did drive it down indeed but that took 3-5 months and once everything started to open, quelle surprise, cases rise again. It can't be a never ending loop of restrictions and normality until we find a vaccine, there is constant stories in the news but noone can put a firm date on anything. There has to be a middle ground somewhere.

Edited October 26, 2020 by Heartsmad1874

[gashauskis9]

Time for the old ‘is Musselburgh Midlothian or East Lothian debate?’ to rear its head again 🧐

[OBE]

30 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Bottom of the league.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I live in East Lothian.

 

A ken!

[redjambo]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

Elimination is not what I said so that looks like your fantasy,  not mine.

 

Stamping down hard = making a proper effort to drive it down to the level we saw in the summer.  It was done then sk it can be done again.  No fantasy.

 

The key thing probably isn't driving it down, it's keeping it down once it gets there. We failed in that earlier on, so hopefully we've learned any lessons that we need to.

 

Of course, there are those who will argue that perhaps we should just be trying to stop it taking off, not on reducing the rate from the current one, until we can get that much-needed vaccine.

 

I'm in the former camp, probably, but it does need adequate enforcement of the isolation rules that we do have when we're down at a low level again. And I'm not sure that is possible any more given the number of people who don't give a shit about flouting the guidelines and the lack of enforcement for those folk. Of course, if their numbers don't grow too much, then we'll eventually achieve a sort of "herd immunity" amongst those nice folks, leaving those of us who do follow the rules to be able to live more open and normal lives.

[Victorian]

Just now, Heartsmad1874 said:

Elimination was something NS talked about after seeing New Zealands efforts. Thats why i said yours and the governments .

 

We did drive it down indeed but that took 3-5 months and once everything started to open quelle surprise, cases rise again. It can't be a never ending loop of restrictions and normality until we find a vaccine, there is constant stories in the news but noone can put a firm date on anything. There has to be a middle ground somewhere.

 

Yes but I did not say it.  I'm backing the belief that this is the final push towards the beginnings of the vaccine stage.  Hopefully the virus can be suppressed enough to allow some normality in the short term and hopefully good efforts at keeping it suppressed.  Later on the start of vaccinations with continued social distancing while it takes place. 

 

I want normality or near to it.  Pubs staying shut a while longer doesn't even register.  

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, jonesy said:

Thought you were just the stats man?

Yep, you're both right. Apologies.

 

 

No problem on my end. You keep on expressing those views about the crisis. I just sometimes get the feeling from your posts that you're really low about all of this. I can see exactly why that would be the case, of course, and I hope you're muddling through like the rest of us. Sorry if that seems patronising in any way. I look forward to your humour coming to the fore again.

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Thought you were just the stats man?

Yep, you're both right. Apologies.

 

 

No probs.👍

[Heartsmad1874]

1 minute ago, Brian Dundas said:

And that middle ground is???

Better track and trace, testing etc and allowing places of business to be open so people can have jobs and incomes, whilst following all the rules in place to remain Covid secure. The government had 7 months before now to plan all this but it seems to have hit them as a surprise that cases would rise again after we kept the numbers so low during lockdown. 

[DETTY29]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

The tier drop explodes.   Don't mind it being tier 3 for a further period to consolidate the stabilising picture.  Looks like it would move to tier 2 fairly quickly.

I suppose the proof will be in the pudding if numbers drop let's say in the Lothian Council areas and will the SG be

 

a ) Willing to put measures in place to restrict notably cross council non essential travel  hospitality, with buy in from these sectors

b ) if numbers do go down, be prepared  to reduce a tier.

 

This will need a considerable amount of compliance from the populous in each council / health board area.

 

I don't have  confidence in either.  

 

The last few pages have been a thoroughly depressing read and depressing day all round.

[XB52]

9 minutes ago, Robbofan99 said:

Exactly I felt his post was a tad optimistic and showing too much deference to this scum Govt. 

Whereas your post was well reasoned and in no way hysterically over the top. Pathetic the type of posts on here these days. 

[husref musemic]

54 minutes ago, jonesy said:

 

At your own risk, Husref. Christ knows what she's got up her tartan skirt.

😂

[Malinga the Swinga]

Amazing just how many people, not counting J4E as I don't believe that is proper poster, are willing to put up with West bias in politics but absolutely none of us are happy with the exact same thing in football. Strange how we see things differently on one subject but can all agree on another.

 

Does anyone believe they will reduce Edinburgh to tier 2 while Glasgow remains in tier 3? There is no evidence to predict a fair decision will be reached, and you can almost see the hope in governments eyes that either we go up or Glasgow comes down. Rest assured, if it was the other way round, there is no doubt Glasgow would be reduced and we would be left struggling.

[Victorian]

5 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

The key thing probably isn't driving it down, it's keeping it down once it gets there. We failed in that earlier on, so hopefully we've learned any lessons that we need to.

 

Of course, there are those who will argue that perhaps we should just be trying to stop it taking off, not on reducing the rate from the current one, until we can get that much-needed vaccine.

 

I'm in the former camp, probably, but it does need adequate enforcement of the isolation rules that we do have when we're down at a low level again. And I'm not sure that is possible any more given the number of people who don't give a shit about flouting the guidelines and the lack of enforcement for those folk. Of course, if their numbers don't grow too much, then we'll eventually achieve a sort of "herd immunity" amongst those nice folks, leaving those of us who do follow the rules to be able to live more open and normal lives.

 

If we did manage to drive it down again it would be criminal to waste the chance to sustain the gains.  By no means will we definitely get there of course.  

 

We just wont get there if we prematurely relax restrictions for the sake of small,  instant gratification freedoms.  Building in a factor of safety will benefit us all in the end.

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 hour ago, steve123 said:

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/health/coronavirus/edinburgh-set-officially-be-placed-tier-three-scottish-governments-coronavirus-restrictions-3015502

 

Well there you have it tier 3 for Edinburgh being leaked !!

How unusual for them to leak bad news before officially announcing. It is the same time after time with this lot yet still people fall at feet of NS and her pet dentist..

[Heartsmad1874]

2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

If we did manage to drive it down again it would be criminal to waste the chance to sustain the gains.  By no means will we definitely get there of course.  

 

We just wont get there if we prematurely relax restrictions for the sake of small,  instant gratification freedoms.  Building in a factor of safety will benefit us all in the end.

It is of little wonder why people have lost faith in the government. They failed to sustain the gains as you said from the first lockdown and are running about like headless chickens from one restriction to the next.

[Malinga the Swinga]

Just now, Brian Dundas said:

There is talk of Lanarkshire being in tier 4, not sure how that fits with your post

Guess we will see where Edinburgh and Glasgow end up. 

[Victorian]

6 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

I suppose the proof will be in the pudding if numbers drop let's say in the Lothian Council areas and will the SG be

 

a ) Willing to put measures in place to restrict notably cross council non essential travel  hospitality, with buy in from these sectors

b ) if numbers do go down, be prepared  to reduce a tier.

 

This will need a considerable amount of compliance from the populous in each council / health board area.

 

I don't have  confidence in either.  

 

The last few pages have been a thoroughly depressing read and depressing day all round.

 

There's probably a firm divide when it comes to compliance and neither side is very likely to change much.  Those trying their best to follow what's being said will probably continue with it and those not following are now well beyond the reach of the messaging.  That ship has sailed.

 

It looks like a levelling off now.  Or flattening.  Late December may well cause a bit of damage to the trajectory.

[the general]

2 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

It is of little wonder why people have lost faith in the government. They failed to sustain the gains as you said from the first lockdown and are running about like headless chickens from one restriction to the next.

 

lost all faith after they promised this current lockdown would only be for 2 weeks

[Malinga the Swinga]

22 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Elimination is not what I said so that looks like your fantasy,  not mine.

 

Stamping down hard = making a proper effort to drive it down to the level we saw in the summer.  It was done then so it can be done again.  No fantasy.

By all means, stamp down hard, but stamp down hard where numbers are at worst and reward those areas who are making the effort to reduce theirs. Al we do is take the easy decision and the reason looks like she is afraid to upset Glasgow.

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

It is of little wonder why people have lost faith in the government. They failed to sustain the gains as you said from the first lockdown and are running about like headless chickens from one restriction to the next.

 

This is where people are going wrong.  The detailed measures and the day to day chopping and changing are by no means perfect,  but the over-arching aim remains the same.  Just throwing in the towel and refusing to even try any more isn't going to help anyone.

[redjambo]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

If we did manage to drive it down again it would be criminal to waste the chance to sustain the gains.  By no means will we definitely get there of course.  

 

We just wont get there if we prematurely relax restrictions for the sake of small,  instant gratification freedoms.  Building in a factor of safety will benefit us all in the end.

 

Yes, but can we drive it back down if so many people ignore the advice? Perhaps we've reached the point where all we can do is hope to sustain the level of infections without letting it escape upwards.

 

I know it's petty as hell but I went to Tesco last night (late at night, as I prefer to do) and was pleased to see a "Face masks are obligatory in this store" poster prominently displayed. However, during my short visit, there were at least 4 folk not wearing a face mask and the guy in charge said not a word to them. Neither did I though, but there's no way I'm risking my parents over a face-to-face argument. Perhaps they should consider hiring folk who've already had Covid as doormen so that they have no hang-ups about getting into confrontations as they turn maskless folk away. On the other hand, perhaps the rules are more tightly enforced at busier times of the day. I don't know. But if my small experience is a guide, it doesn't matter what guidelines are implemented, enforcement is key.

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

By all means, stamp down hard, but stamp down hard where numbers are at worst and reward those areas who are making the effort to reduce theirs. Al we do is take the easy decision and the reason looks like she is afraid to upset Glasgow.

 

It's a notable thing.  It's either to avoid complaints or to prevent 'hospitality commuting'.  It does look like it could well be a deliberate twinning of the two sides of the country.  We'll see in due course.

[redjambo]

7 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

It is of little wonder why people have lost faith in the government. They failed to sustain the gains as you said from the first lockdown and are running about like headless chickens from one restriction to the next.

 

Letting students back into halls and not introducing strict enough measures in Greater Glasgow when it was obvious that there was a real problem there were the two main reasons for that, imo. As it was, on the Glasgow side of things, the virus easily passed over into Lanarkshire, which had been doing really quite well during the pandemic up until then iirc, and the rest is history.

 

The government can't afford to take its eye off the ball like that again.

[Malinga the Swinga]

In other news, Aberdeen sees vacancies down by 75% while Edinburgh sees a drop of over 50%. Bit of a kick in teeth for those who believe people should simply retrain.

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Yes, but can we drive it back down if so many people ignore the advice? Perhaps we've reached the point where all we can do is hope to sustain the level of infections without letting it escape upwards.

 

I know it's petty as hell but I went to Tesco last night (late at night, as I prefer to do) and was pleased to see a "Face masks are obligatory in this store" poster prominently displayed. However, during my short visit, there were at least 4 folk not wearing a face mask and the guy in charge said not a word to them. Neither did I though, but there's no way I'm risking my parents over a face-to-face argument. Perhaps they should consider hiring folk who've already had Covid as doormen so that they have no hang-ups about getting into confrontations as they turn maskless folk away. On the other hand, perhaps the rules are more tightly enforced at busier times of the day. I don't know. But if my small experience is a guide, it doesn't matter what guidelines are implemented, enforcement is key.

 

I have to deal with them at work.  It's a bit sad that people wont even take the entry level effort.  A mask on the face for a few minutes.  It's depressing as ****.

[Heartsmad1874]

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18821290.dr-nicola-steedman-shoots-plan-covid-amnesty-christmas/
 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

27 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

How unusual for them to leak bad news before officially announcing. It is the same time after time with this lot yet still people fall at feet of NS and her pet dentist..

[redjambo]

29 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

How unusual for them to leak bad news before officially announcing. It is the same time after time with this lot yet still people fall at feet of NS and her pet dentist..

 

I've noticed that most big decisions during the pandemic have been leaked unofficially before the official announcement is made. I approve of that - it gives time for folk to get used to it before the official announcement is made and, after that, before the measure is implemented. And most of it, of course, has been "bad news". I would rather they did it that way however than said, for example, "Oh , by the way, tomorrow you can't go out for a pint for the foreseeable future."

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

If that turns out to be the case, then imo the tier system is most definitely wrong in not being able to distinguish the current situation in the west with that in the east. In effect, it won't allow a sufficiently fine-grained approach. Let's wait to see what the initial tier placings are though.

 

It's not the tier system that is wrong but Sturgeons political decision making to lump Edinburgh in with Glasgow so the weejie trash don't turn on her. 

[Robbofan99]

41 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Yes, but can we drive it back down if so many people ignore the advice? Perhaps we've reached the point where all we can do is hope to sustain the level of infections without letting it escape upwards.

 

I know it's petty as hell but I went to Tesco last night (late at night, as I prefer to do) and was pleased to see a "Face masks are obligatory in this store" poster prominently displayed. However, during my short visit, there were at least 4 folk not wearing a face mask and the guy in charge said not a word to them. Neither did I though, but there's no way I'm risking my parents over a face-to-face argument. Perhaps they should consider hiring folk who've already had Covid as doormen so that they have no hang-ups about getting into confrontations as they turn maskless folk away. On the other hand, perhaps the rules are more tightly enforced at busier times of the day. I don't know. But if my small experience is a guide, it doesn't matter what guidelines are implemented, enforcement is key.

Disappointed  at this posting from you.  For all you know they might have had an invisible disability.   

[Robbofan99]

35 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18821290.dr-nicola-steedman-shoots-plan-covid-amnesty-christmas/
 

 

Load of bollocks. I dont know anyone who will adhere to any household restrictions on that day so they are wasting their time even considering a condescending " amnesty". 

[theshed]

30 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18821290.dr-nicola-steedman-shoots-plan-covid-amnesty-christmas/
 

 

No one will listen to that anyway so waste of time no matter what they say 

 

[manaliveits105]

I see Sir Kenny Dalgleish was at Hampden today to promote Celtic V Aberdeen semi

essential travel from Liverpool into the weeg ?

 

the SFA think they are untouchable 

Edited October 26, 2020 by manaliveits105

[Shooter McGavin]

Pissing myself at Sturgeons latest attempt at copying Westminsters homework and just changing a few words.

 

Her cult following will lap it up as usual. 

[Shooter McGavin]

Also, people will visit who they like, and as many people as they wish around Christmas time. 
 

Deluded to think otherwise. 

[Ray Gin]

1 hour ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Amazing just how many people, not counting J4E as I don't believe that is proper poster, are willing to put up with West bias in politics but absolutely none of us are happy with the exact same thing in football. Strange how we see things differently on one subject but can all agree on another.

 

Does anyone believe they will reduce Edinburgh to tier 2 while Glasgow remains in tier 3? There is no evidence to predict a fair decision will be reached, and you can almost see the hope in governments eyes that either we go up or Glasgow comes down. Rest assured, if it was the other way round, there is no doubt Glasgow would be reduced and we would be left struggling.

 

As I've already pointed out, Glasgow has already had a lockdown that Edinburgh did not suffer.

 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

4 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Pissing myself at Sturgeons latest attempt at copying Westminsters homework and just changing a few words.

 

Her cult following will lap it up as usual. 

[ri Alban]

18 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Also, people will visit who they like, and as many people as they wish around Christmas time. 
 

Deluded to think otherwise. 

Not their Grandparents as they’ll have already killed them. 

[redjambo]

20 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Pissing myself at Sturgeons latest attempt at copying Westminsters homework and just changing a few words.

 

Her cult following will lap it up as usual. 

 

Politically-motivated bullshit, the bane of this thread.

 

19 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Also, people will visit who they like, and as many people as they wish around Christmas time. 
 

Deluded to think otherwise. 

 

But with this, I tend to agree with you - I suspect many/most folk will just go ahead and do this. The government has to assume that this is going to be the case, and plan accordingly to minimise the impact.

Edited October 26, 2020 by redjambo

[Shooter McGavin]

5 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Not their Grandparents as they’ll have already killed them. 

Ah yes, the classic “killing grandparents” shock statement. 
 

Seen that a lot this year.

[Shooter McGavin]

7 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Politically-motivated bullshit, the bane of this thread.

 

 

But with this, I tend to agree with you - I suspect many/most folk will just go ahead and do this. The government has to assume that this is going to be the case, and plan accordingly to minimise the impact.

I’ll just add that I don’t think that Westminster has handled the situation well either, and that the idea that Scotland are somehow leading the way or doing things better than the rest of the UK is false. We simply watch what they do, then copy it a week or two later. The entire UK is a mess and the tragic thing is that there really seems to be no end in sight at this moment in time.