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2 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

It would be amazing if their strategy paid off. I hope so. 

It looks like it has 

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15 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

wee jason, how tall is he, asking for a friend.

 

I don't have the exact figure (a bit like Jason, lol) but to give you some context, here's a picture of him standing next to a child.

JasonLeitch.jpg

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Just now, fancy a brew said:

 

I don't have the exact figure (a bit like Jason, lol) but to give you some context, here's a picture of him standing next to a child.

JasonLeitch.jpg

Thanks for the reply😀

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3 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:


That’s a relief, I was getting concerned about the reduction in lesbianism. Especially amongst the Swedes. 
 

Seriously, I posted a article from a Danish expert who has done alot of research and believes some form of herd immunity has been achieved. He thinks it’s been achieved at much lower levels than thought about 40% seemed to be sufficient. It also believes existing immunity exists in part to exposure to previous COVID. 
 

Antibodies are a bit misleading in terms of immunity as the key appears to be tcells. This seems to have been backed by a good few studies now.

 

https://www.thelocal.se/20200919/swedens-pandemic-may-be-finished-danish-researcher

 

Seems to be reported in U.K. press today, 

 

No idea if right or wrong. However, if the Swedes get no second wave. You have your answer out of this shit show if the nation has the stomach for it. I don’t think the nation has the stomach or maturity to go that strategy even if Swedes proves it works. 

👍👍

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CavySlaveJambo
1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 My fear is that a lot of those folk are really going to resent paying the price for the behaviour of others, leading to non-compliance (I'll be ****ed if I'm not poppong my head in on my housebound mother-in-law), further social division, and - if a full on lockdown is imposed - a spot or two of civil unreat.

You Can still visit others to provide care and support the  Disabled vulnerable and elderly.   And that does include there mental health. 

9 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:


I don’t think the nation has the stomach or maturity to go that strategy even if Swedes proves it works. 

I don’t think the Nation has the maturity as was proven that first week of Social distancing/last week before Lockdown in March.  And at time’s since then too (beaches over the summer etc) 

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27 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

It would be amazing if their strategy paid off. I hope so. 

 

Same. So far pretty much everything that tegnell and giesecke said has come true, and similar to us their main failure was not protecting care homes. I'm not going to pretend I know everything about what they've done but from the outside looking in it, seems to me like they've put plenty of restrictions and measures in place which has affected many businesses but they have tried to do it sustainably. Not just blindly shutting everything. Right now we're probably in a similar situation to them overall except the household thing. (and the infamous face masks) 

Edited by Mauricio Pinilla
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1 minute ago, CavySlaveJambo said:

You Can still visit others to provide care and support the  Disabled vulnerable and elderly.   And that does include there mental health. 

I don’t think the Nation has the maturity as was proven that first week of Social distancing/last week before Lockdown in March.  And at time’s since then too (beaches over the summer etc) 

Yes “ support “ can be physical practical or emotional support so it’s wide open 

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Samuel Camazzola
1 hour ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Some of the guidelines are law now so you must wear masks where appropriate etc. 

You should relax a little and don't get so wound up by views and opinions on a forum. You're forever flapping. 

 

I assume you don't venture out much now as you'd likely combust with people living their lives (although they are ticking boxes). 

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jack D and coke
26 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

From who? I'll give you Piers Morgan but who else is holding them accountable? 

Cmon man they’d get a right going over for that. Yes it’s been a shambles from the start but let’s not pretend things are going much better here. 
Leitch of all people should know everything numbers wise about this. If he doesn’t what the hell is he doing advising. 

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The Real Maroonblood
4 minutes ago, CavySlaveJambo said:

You Can still visit others to provide care and support the  Disabled vulnerable and elderly.   And that does include there mental health. 

 

Where does it say that?

 

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1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

Cmon man they’d get a right going over for that. Yes it’s been a shambles from the start but let’s not pretend things are going much better here. 
Leitch of all people should know everything numbers wise about this. If he doesn’t what the hell is he doing advising. 

Yes he’s accountable 

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2 minutes ago, Samuel Camazzola said:

You should relax a little and don't get so wound up by views and opinions on a forum. You're forever flapping. 

 

I assume you don't venture out much now as you'd likely combust with people living their lives (although they are ticking boxes). 

I will relax more when people are taking this seriously and following the rules and guidelines that are in place, and not encouraging others to not follow them.

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1 minute ago, Lord BJ said:


Their restrictions are not as restrictive as our by any stretch.  They were designed to be long term viable. Plus they had no lockdown, which again will aid in compliance due to fact fatigue hasn’t kicked in. 
 

Lockdown by its nature causes spikes. We know what will happen when we start easing restrictions again.  
 

No one has ever suggested Swedes don’t have restrictions and no one here has ever suggested no restrictions approach. It’s about the balance of restrictions concerning the risk. 
 

I feel the Swedes balance is much better as they are enabling people to live. This approach we are taking is not viable. Every day this household bans stays, the more people will break the rules.
 

Maybe there is something different about Sweden though I just think their policy is better designed as opposed to Swedes obey rules better. Either way no second wave and we will need to learn lessons.

 

 

Yeah it's too simplistic to just say swedes obey the rules whereas us freedom loving brits are ruining it all like Boris came out with yesterday. They also have a 6th of our population and we should keep that in mind when comparing. I'm not sure what the 'correct' measurement to use is anymore but their death count per million is very high compared to other nordic countries. But it is lower than the UK despite having a lot more cases per million. 

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Adam_the_legend
21 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

Sweden's restrictions are not that different from what we had here, the advice is almost identical.


Just not true. Please educate yourself before posting nonsense. 

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8 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I’ve read a few of his articles. I think I’m just desperate for good news :lol: 

Well it’s hard to find “

good news “ regarding CV due to the mass media  

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42 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

I don't have the exact figure (a bit like Jason, lol) but to give you some context, here's a picture of him standing next to a child.

JasonLeitch.jpg

 

He will be classed as an expert child carer, pediatrician and humanitarian now too. A bigger charlatan you will not find.

Edited by i8hibsh
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Samuel Camazzola
11 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

I will relax more when people are taking this seriously and following the rules and guidelines that are in place, and not encouraging others to not follow them.

Have you been out to witness it and try to make a difference? You're getting wound up by words of strangers - (even if it is amusing). 

 

Some things are only advisory and not rules therefore people still have the right to go about their business even if it doesn't fit with the advice. 

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Adam_the_legend
1 minute ago, Brian Dundas said:

I literally posted a link to Sweden's restrictions


Yes, and they are nothing close to what we put in place. Schools, cafes, restaurants, businesses remained open with some additional measures (kids 16-19 did distance learning). Face masks and social distancing suggested but not forced on the population. If you think Sweden’s experience of Covid Restrictions has been similar to ours you’re wrong. 

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3 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

He will be classed as an expert child carer, peadiatrician and humanitarian now too. A bigger charlatan you will not find.

Interesting article about him here

 

https://www.holyrood.com/inside-politics/view,interview-scotlands-national-clinical-director-jason-leitch-on-changing-culture-in-healthcare_13782.htm

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Samuel Camazzola
4 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

He will be classed as an expert child carer, pediatrician and humanitarian now too. A bigger charlatan you will not find.

😄 The kid doesn't want to smile and display what botched job he's done on the gnashers. 

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Weakened Offender
18 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Cmon man they’d get a right going over for that. Yes it’s been a shambles from the start but let’s not pretend things are going much better here. 
Leitch of all people should know everything numbers wise about this. If he doesn’t what the hell is he doing advising. 

 

The Government down south has had a very easy ride so far, especially regarding erm....just about everything. 

 

Not so, up here. It maybe eased off recently but in April and May it was non stop. Which actually worked in Sturgeon's favour. 

 

I never watched Leitch last night. I don't particularly like listening to him and I'm not a fan. Part of me thinks he's enjoyed the limelight a wee bit too much. I'm not going to have a massive breakdown because he didn't have the figures to hand around the same time the PM said he was calling up the troops though. 

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48 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

  Some of the shite that has been posted on here in the last half day or so is unbelievable, even by this threads standards. There are plenty of legitimate questions to be asked about why wear re having to face these new restrictions but when people post shite like 'he's just a dentist' it is a shortcut to thinking and it makes me dismiss the rest of their argument.

 

In regard to Jason Leitch no knowing the statistic for where the virus is being transmitted is a strange one. Due to someone posting about the pub landlord's claims yesterday I had a look at the PHE figures and they don't publish the % for the setting the virus is passing from one to another. It looks like the Scottish Government don't either, so I don't think he nor John Swinney don't know the numbers, for some reason we aren't being told.

 

What we can tell is where people who test positive have the largest number of close contacts, which is massively within their own house, understandably and we can't really expect to stop transmission within households. The next one is visitors to the house and then leisure, which includes pubs. We can maybe assume that infections passed follows the same pattern? I don't know.

 

The question is what does the data say that we aren't told it, or do they just not track it?

 

 

Personally I think there is way more transmission going on in hospitality settings like pubs and restaurants than we are being told. I was told of a real world example of someone who owns a cafe, who was pretty much told by Track and Trace to forget about it when they had a member of staff test positive. 

 

Coupled with the fact that the local lockdown in Aberdeen seemed to work pretty well when they shut hospitality. The local lockdowns in Glasgow and Manchester (whilst keeping hospitality open) seemed to have made little to no difference in reducing cases. 

 

I think both UKG and SG are terrified of admitting transmission is occurring in hospitality as they have made such a big show of their “we are following the science” mantra - they would have no choice but to shut hospitality down in problem areas which of course causes massive headaches regarding furlough and jobs. 

 

Plus if the public know a decent proportion of transmission is happening in hospitality, the more cautious people in society will lose confidence in going to these venues, which ultimately will lead to job losses. 

 

Instead both Govt seem to have settled on this line that it is all young people’s fault, who are recklessly mixing households (this probably is a problem, but I doubt it is as big as being made out).

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6 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

Education[edit]

Leitch attended Airdrie Academy from 1980 to 1986 and became school Dux.[2] He played the part of Ralph Rackstraw in the school production of HMS Pinafore.[citation needed]

Leitch graduated in dentistry from the University of Glasgow in 1991. He became a Fellow of the Faculty of Dental Surgery at the Royal College of Surgeons (England) in 1996.

He has a doctorate from the University of Glasgow (2004), a Masters in Public Health from Harvard University (2006) and is a fellow of The Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Glasgow(2004) and the Royal College of Surgeons of Edinburgh (2004). He is also a Fellow of the Higher Education Academy (2004).

He was a 2005-06 Quality Improvement Fellow at the Institute for Healthcare Improvement (IHI), in Boston, sponsored by the Health Foundation, he is now a Senior Fellow at the IHI.

 

 

Cracking CV that, he would walk in to many jobs. However I see nothing of relevance that debunks my claims about his suitability to dictate all our lives through this scamdemic.

 

I'd cast him in HMS Pinafore however, oh wait a minute we have no theatre right now.

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Just now, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Cracking CV that, he would walk in to many jobs. However I see nothing of relevance that debunks my claims about his suitability to dictate all our lives through this scamdemic.

 

I'd cast him in HMS Pinafore however, oh wait a minute we have no theatre right now.

https://www.holyrood.com/inside-politics/view,interview-scotlands-national-clinical-director-jason-leitch-on-changing-culture-in-healthcare_13782.htm

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jack D and coke
5 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

The Government down south has had a very easy ride so far, especially regarding erm....just about everything. 

 

Not so, up here. It maybe eased off recently but in April and May it was non stop. Which actually worked in Sturgeon's favour. 

 

I never watched Leitch last night. I don't particularly like listening to him and I'm not a fan. Part of me thinks he's enjoyed the limelight a wee bit too much. I'm not going to have a massive breakdown because he didn't have the figures to hand around the same time the PM said he was calling up the troops though. 

Absolutely does. 
Im not having a breakdown about it either but it does seem like something he should know. The man advising the government should be able to reel off any figures you ask for surely. 

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2 hours ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

That’s correct. I’d think if your only alternative to getting a lift from the same person every day is to get on a bus with a mix if people then car sharing is the better option. 

Good point. 

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Adam_the_legend
6 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

That's not what I said - I said that at a recent point in time they were very similar, almost the same.

 

Are you suggesting we are somehow able to go back and change what we have done to the Swedish model? I was suggesting that until yesterday we were doing pretty much the same as Sweden at that time.


you wrote:

 

Sweden's restrictions are not that different from what we had here, the advice is almost identical.”

 

I’m not suggesting anything other than what you said was incorrect. For someone I keep

seeing posting about the amount of shite on this thread I’d expect a better understanding of the facts if you’re commenting on them. 

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15 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

Education[edit]

Leitch attended Airdrie Academy from 1980 to 1986 and became school Dux.[2] He played the part of Ralph Rackstraw in the school production of HMS Pinafore.[citation needed]

Leitch graduated in dentistry from the University of Glasgow in 1991. He became a Fellow of the Faculty of Dental Surgery at the Royal College of Surgeons (England) in 1996.

He has a doctorate from the University of Glasgow (2004), a Masters in Public Health from Harvard University (2006) and is a fellow of The Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Glasgow(2004) and the Royal College of Surgeons of Edinburgh (2004). He is also a Fellow of the Higher Education Academy (2004).

He was a 2005-06 Quality Improvement Fellow at the Institute for Healthcare Improvement (IHI), in Boston, sponsored by the Health Foundation, he is now a Senior Fellow at the IHI.

“Education is an admirable thing, but it is well to remember from time to time that nothing that is worth knowing can be taught”  Oscar Wilde 

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15 minutes ago, maroondevo52 said:

I noticed quite a few 'water cannon' type military vehicles being driven on the M80 & M8 yesterday.

 

Someone must've been seen smiling. Can't have any of that shite now.

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1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

“Education is an admirable thing, but it is well to remember from time to time that nothing that is worth knowing can be taught”  Oscar Wilde 

 

One of many a great quote from him.

 

What I take from that CV is he is more of a professional student than a grafter. He was at Harvard as he was hitting 40 years old ffs. 

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Weakened Offender
16 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

I think it is something we should be concerned about, why are these figures not being released to us? They aren't published anywhere I can find, is it that they don't really know exactly where transmission is happening between households and are making assumptions on other data? That is worrying for track and trace if that's the case.........

 

I would like to think they'll be made available to us soon. 

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5 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

One of many a great quote from him.

 

What I take from that CV is he is more of a professional student than a grafter. He was at Harvard as he was hitting 40 years old ffs. 

Hardly a “ fresher “ then lol

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5 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

One of many a great quote from him.

 

What I take from that CV is he is more of a professional student than a grafter. He was at Harvard as he was hitting 40 years old ffs. 

Yes the quote is really accurate at this time as those who are “ educated “ ie scientists etc don’t seem to know their srse from their elbow with all the conflicting information we are getting. Also I’ve met a few “ educated “ people in my time with degrees and post graduates who lack just plain common sense . 

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On Sweden. They have a death rate 5 times more than their neighbours Denmark who had a stricter lockdown compared to us, with roughly the same economic downturn.

However,  it would seem Sweden's infection rate is as of now, lower than Denmark, so things may change in Sweden's favour but I wouldn't advocate them just yet.

Also, Sweden are not adopting Herd Immunity, and anyone advocating that as an approach in my view ,is poorly informed.

Do some reading on Long Covid and seriously tell me that Herd Immunity is a good idea.

 

The issue in the UK is that we locked down too late and not effectively (i.e. borders) poorly communicated the strategy, ignored it at a high level so losing public trust (Cummings) and didn't use lockdown to develop a proper mass testing and track and trace system (outsourcing to Serco FFS).

 

It's not so much lockdown that was the issue,  more that we totally mismanaged it.

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4 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

I would like to think they'll be made available to us soon. 

Hopefully not as she would have us on furlough forever . Sitting at hind waiting on a vaccine . Hopefully Bo jo tells her to bolt regarding it 

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The Real Maroonblood
Just now, Robbofan99 said:

Hopefully not as she would have us on furlough forever . Sitting at hind waiting on a vaccine . Hopefully Bo jo tells her to bolt regarding it 

:rofl:

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2 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

Brilliant how we're dismissing a harvard graduate because he was at harvard when he was 40. I love kickback. 

No people are quite rightly asking fit the figures since they are using them to underpin their latest draconian measures 

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2 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

Brilliant how we're dismissing a harvard graduate because he was at harvard when he was 40. I love kickback. 

I've met Harvard Graduates and TBH, they were wankers with little more knowledge than I gained from my SNC in Business Studies at Stevenson.

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3 minutes ago, Costanza said:

On Sweden. They have a death rate 5 times more than their neighbours Denmark who had a stricter lockdown compared to us, with roughly the same economic downturn.

However,  it would seem Sweden's infection rate is as of now, lower than Denmark, so things may change in Sweden's favour but I wouldn't advocate them just yet.

Also, Sweden are not adopting Herd Immunity, and anyone advocating that as an approach in my view ,is poorly informed.

Do some reading on Long Covid and seriously tell me that Herd Immunity is a good idea.

 

The issue in the UK is that we locked down too late and not effectively (i.e. borders) poorly communicated the strategy, ignored it at a high level so losing public trust (Cummings) and didn't use lockdown to develop a proper mass testing and track and trace system (outsourcing to Serco FFS).

 

It's not so much lockdown that was the issue,  more that we totally mismanaged it.

 

Sweden also had this in their favour: https://www.statista.com/statistics/526013/sweden-number-of-households-by-type/

 

The majority of the country is made up of single-person households - over 50%.  

Around 20% higher than the UK and indeed most of Europe where it is just over 30% on average.

 

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Weakened Offender
8 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

They had 12 hours between Leitch and Swinney's interviews and failed to come up with them.

 

I wasn't meaning as soon as that. 

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Weakened Offender
7 minutes ago, Robbofan99 said:

Hopefully not as she would have us on furlough forever . Sitting at hind waiting on a vaccine . Hopefully Bo jo tells her to bolt regarding it 

 

Going do me a favour pal and never quote any of my posts again, please. Ta. 👍

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1 minute ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Sweden also had this in their favour: https://www.statista.com/statistics/526013/sweden-number-of-households-by-type/

 

The majority of the country is made up of single-person households - over 50%.  

Around 20% higher than the UK and indeed most of Europe where it is just over 30% on average.

 

Yeah that is a good point, didn't know that.

Just further enforces my view that we have to be careful assuming one countries policy can automatically work in another, albeit we obviously need to learn what we can.

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Francis Albert
2 hours ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Some of the guidelines are law now so you must wear masks where appropriate etc. 

Speed limits are the law but nearly everyone breaks that law. 

 

There was a thread on here a while back about a proposal to reduce 30mph limits to 20mph within Edinburgh to save lives and injuries. Given the size of the city it would have lengthened journey times by maybe 10 minutes at most (a large part of any journey in the city is spent stationary or going at lower speeds than either limit) and yet it was opposed by most and greeted by some with outrage.

 

There is much less evidence about the impact of mask wearing than there is about the impact of speeding killing and injuring people. 

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