Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[The Real Maroonblood]

11 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I'll be honest, it shocked me. I knew it would be high, but I didn't expect anything like that. If one good things come of all of this from a personal perspective, I'd like to think it's made me much more aware of the hardship so many people around the world face everyday, every year. What I can do to help? I'm yet to work that part out

Certainly eye opening stuff.

[Walter Bishop]

Just now, Cade said:

What more can be done?

We've had to get doctors and nurses out of retirement and put final year medical students on the front lines just to prevent a total collapse of the system.

There are no more staff to be had.

They're all fighting Covid-19.

 

Do you know anyone that works for the NHS? 

[Ray Gin]

55 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Ran out of time to edit:

 

That's also less than 2 months, about 6/7 weeks. A fair bit different to "almost 3 months". That's the part I don't really get. I'm being pretty safe about all of this when I'm out and about and not doing certain things because I view it as too much of a risk but the sensationalism to make it seem worse or skew the narrative is abundant. I actually looked up cancer deaths last night after our discussion, Covid-19s death rate (numbers by time) is nowhere near that of cancer, not even remotely close. Over 25,000 people a day die from cancer, Covid-19 never at any stage got remotely close to that. In the same way people shouldn't play down the risk, it isn't helpful to ham it up either imo.

 

 

 

April 28 was 11 weeks ago.

 

I gave you the daily average UK figures for cancer deaths compared to Covid at it's peak. Covid was treble the average cancer death rate at one point.

 

Cancer mortality

There are around 165,000 cancer deaths in the UK every year, that's around 450 every day (2015-2017). Cancer accounts for more than a quarter (28%) of all deaths in the UK (2017). In females in the UK, there were around 77,700 cancer deaths in 2017.

 

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/health-professional/cancer-statistics-for-the-uk

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/nearly-1500-deaths-in-one-day-uk-ministers-accused-of-downplaying-covid-19-peak/ar-BB15JJLk?li=BBoPWjQ

 

 

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Ray Gin

[The Real Maroonblood]

5 minutes ago, Samuel Camazzola said:

Not if you wear your manky well-fingered mask. 👍 

[Enzo Chiefo]

5 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

I certainly won't post them and claim that they are facts.

 

If the Scot Gov were not confident about the 1k figure, cautious Sturgeon would not state it. It may be 900 or 1100 but it indicates how low the prevalence of the virus is in Scotland. That figure should give you the confidence to go out and have a beer👍

[doctor jambo]

5 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said:

Do you know anyone that works for the NHS? 

In scotland I am not entirely sure what the hospitals are going TBH.

All the cancelled aapointment for out patients the workload has moved onto the GP's.

Psychiatry has basically gone AWOL and are not really seeing anyone so we have been landed with all their workload too.

The wards are quiet, AE same.

Primary care has had no extra staff.

Testing centres are empty- a total waste of resource at present.

There SHOULD be loads of staff milling around doing not very much- as all they seem to be doing is firing out letters cancelling appointments and asking patients to contact their GP's if they are not well

[Walter Bishop]

1 minute ago, doctor jambo said:

In scotland I am not entirely sure what the hospitals are going TBH.

All the cancelled aapointment for out patients the workload has moved onto the GP's.

Psychiatry has basically gone AWOL and are not really seeing anyone so we have been landed with all their workload too.

The wards are quiet, AE same.

Primary care has had no extra staff.

Testing centres are empty- a total waste of resource at present.

There SHOULD be loads of staff milling around doing not very much- as all they seem to be doing is firing out letters cancelling appointments and asking patients to contact their GP's if they are not well

Yeah, this is very much what i have seen, and it has been like this for much of the duration of this whole thing. 

[Walter Bishop]

10 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

April 28 was 11 weeks ago.

 

I gave you the daily average UK figures for cancer deaths compared to Covid at it's peak. Covid was treble the average cancer death rate at one point.

 

Cancer mortality

There are around 165,000 cancer deaths in the UK every year, that's around 450 every day (2015-2017). Cancer accounts for more than a quarter (28%) of all deaths in the UK (2017). In females in the UK, there were around 77,700 cancer deaths in 2017.

 

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/health-professional/cancer-statistics-for-the-uk

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/nearly-1500-deaths-in-one-day-uk-ministers-accused-of-downplaying-covid-19-peak/ar-BB15JJLk?li=BBoPWjQ

 

 

 

 

I don't understand what you are trying to prove or say here? 

 

 

[Ray Gin]

Just now, Walter Bishop said:

 

I don't understand what you are trying to prove or say here? 

 

 

 

He's claiming that in some way I mislead him over the figures I gave of 450 UK cancer deaths per day compared to 1445 Covid deaths at it's peak.

 

I've just posted the links to prove that I did not.

[cheetah]

51 minutes ago, Natural Orders said:

Difference is you can’t catch cancer from someone else 

 

Plenty cancers caused by viral infections.

[vegas-voss]

1 hour ago, Taffin said:

 

Not disputing that, but masks, coronavirus and the spreading of droplets isn't brand new. It was pretty obvious, from the off, what effect masks would have and is the same reason people throughout the world wear them however it's only now that people are being told to wear them that people are suddenly preaching their virtues.

 

That's got to be down to two things imo. The desire to get people back out and spending and the previous fear that advising usage would prevent a shortage for health workers. I don't believe we've learnt anything we didn't already know about the virus that would suddenly make it apparent masks are useful when they were considered useless before. 

I agree with that 

[The Real Maroonblood]

On a brighter note those whose local doesn’t have a beer garden tomorrow’s the day.

🍺🍷

[Walter Bishop]

54 minutes ago, Natural Orders said:

Difference is you can’t catch cancer from someone else 

You are much more likely to get cancer and die from it though. 

[Taffin]

26 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

April 28 was 11 weeks ago.

 

I gave you the daily average UK figures for cancer deaths compared to Covid at it's peak. Covid was treble the average cancer death rate at one point.

 

Cancer mortality

There are around 165,000 cancer deaths in the UK every year, that's around 450 every day (2015-2017). Cancer accounts for more than a quarter (28%) of all deaths in the UK (2017). In females in the UK, there were around 77,700 cancer deaths in 2017.

 

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/health-professional/cancer-statistics-for-the-uk

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/nearly-1500-deaths-in-one-day-uk-ministers-accused-of-downplaying-covid-19-peak/ar-BB15JJLk?li=BBoPWjQ

 

 

 

 

Yeh sorry, my mistake on the length of time ago. I was miles off.

 

Looking at a microcosm will always throw up an anomaly. Globally (and it's a pandemic we're talking about), Covid is nowhere near to killing as many people as cancer, on any day, in any time frame, to try and say otherwise by narrowing in on a particular country at a particular few days, is disingenuous and paints a particular narrative. I could find another country where Covid-19 has hardly hit at all and say "see, look, it's not an issue at all" which equally wouldn't be true. Fair enough if you're only interested in the UK but it's probably worth declaring that when you make a statement that your only talking about one country of the world.

 

 

That's not to say we shouldn't worry about it, combat it, focus on it, but there has to be some perspective about it too 

 

 

[Taffin]

28 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

He's claiming that in some way I mislead him over the figures I gave of 450 UK cancer deaths per day compared to 1445 Covid deaths at it's peak.

 

I've just posted the links to prove that I did not.

 

I'm not claiming that. I'm claiming your statement when you said none of the things another poster listed (and I'm paraphrasing here) "had nowhere near the death rate over the last few months as Covid-19".

 

At no point did you say you were talking about the UK only when you said that. You've since gone on to use UK only stats to say it wasn't misleading. 

[Taffin]

19 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

None of those things listed has a death rate close to what Covid racked up in a few months. 

 

18 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

When you say death rate do you mean the number of deaths that have occurred by time  (a few months) or the number of deaths in relation to those who contracted the virus?

 

Just for clarity. No mention of the UK and I even asked what you meant by your statement to which you said the former.

 

Deaths by time. Not deaths in one country by time.

[Ray Gin]

5 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I'm not claiming that. I'm claiming your statement when you said none of the things another poster listed (and I'm paraphrasing here) "had nowhere near the death rate over the last few months as Covid-19".

 

At no point did you say you were talking about the UK only when you said that. You've since gone on to use UK only stats to say it wasn't misleading. 

 

 I did make it clear that I was talking about UK figures (see below). It's hardly disingenuous to people living in the UK. It's less painting a narrative than using global figures to compare against cancer deaths, when many parts of the world haven't been affected by Covid badly, or are just starting to see cases rising now. This is a new disease.

 

17 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Cancer will have overtaken it again now that Covid has been brought under control. UK Cancer deaths are around 450 per day compared to 1445 Covid deaths at its peak.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Ray Gin

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 hours ago, vegas-voss said:

Second wave is nothing new though its been talked about  potentially coming in the winter since lockdown first came into effect.

 

Yip, been talked about near enough since day one, it's what Coronavirus' do, they tend to come in waves, typically seasonal, similar to the way Influenza virus' work.

 

 

 

[davemclaren]

Compulsory mask wearing outside the house from tomorrow midnight In Andalusia, Spain. That will be uncomfortable, particularly for any northern european tourists. 

[Taffin]

8 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

 I did make it clear that I was talking about UK figures (see below). It's hardly disingenuous to people living in the UK. It's less painting a narrative than using global figures to compare against cancer deaths, when many parts of the world haven't been affected by Covid badly, or are just starting to see cases rising now. This is a new disease.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That was after your initial statement, which incidentally neither proves nor disprovew your initial statement. It's a pointless argument though so I'm going to just drop it here as we probably both feel quite similarly about how to combat the virus and both just want to keep ourselves and others as safe as possible...I just don't see the benefit from catastrophizing it as it makes people more scared than they need to be and results in other issues being pushed to the side.

 

Edit: I would add this was largely caused because I'm a fool and couldn't count dates. So I do fully apologise for that, I completely jumped the gun.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Taffin

[Ray Gin]

No worries

 

[Ibrahim Tall]

2 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

Mandatory = told to

Should = advised to

 

We isn't Scotland, there's a big world outside of it.

A ‘big world’ like China, Japan, Germany, Poland, Turkey, Czech Republic, Austria etc where they’ve consistently told and advised people to wear face masks for months? The ‘UK’ government and its idiotic cousin in America was massively in the minority on that one.

[Governor Tarkin]

14 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Compulsory mask wearing outside the house from tomorrow midnight In Andalusia, Spain. That will be uncomfortable, particularly for any northern european tourists. 

 

**** going anywhere where you couldn't go out of the house without a mask on.

That's not any kind of a holiday.

[JFK-1]

3 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

What, like you, you mean?

 

What in the world are you talking about? Where am I claiming the government and the experts know nothing while I have better advice?

How does someone, like me,  saying nothing but the government know better than I do become some non expert babbling tit on an internet forum in your alternate reality?

[davemclaren]

7 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

**** going anywhere where you couldn't go out of the house without a mask on.

That's not any kind of a holiday.

Agreed. 

[Taffin]

13 minutes ago, Ibrahim Tall said:

A ‘big world’ like China, Japan, Germany, Poland, Turkey, Czech Republic, Austria etc where they’ve consistently told and advised people to wear face masks for months? The ‘UK’ government and its idiotic cousin in America was massively in the minority on that one.

 

Indeed. However, I still think UK peoples' attitudes towards masks have only changed because/since we were to be told in the UK that we were to start wearing them. They've changed their tune because they've been told to, not because the science has suddenly changed. A mask has the same effect now against this virus as it did right at the start but before they were something to be mocked and laughed at but now they're super duper important and must be worn. This thread reflects that attitude. 

 

Edit: maybe we get the governments we deserve?

Edited July 14, 2020 by Taffin

[Governor Tarkin]

17 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

What in the world are you talking about? Where am I claiming the government and the experts know nothing while I have better advice?

How does someone, like me,  saying nothing but the government know better than I do become some non expert babbling tit on an internet forum in your alternate reality?

 

I live in the hear and now buddy, and from where I'm sitting we're all babbling tits on an internet forum. If you're easy about labeling others but take yourself so seriously that you can't see it in yourself then there's nothing I can say that'll help you.

[Governor Tarkin]

1 hour ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

On a brighter note those whose local doesn’t have a beer garden tomorrow’s the day.

🍺🍷

 

 

[JFK-1]

Just now, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I live in the hear and now buddy, and from where I'm sitting we're all babbling tits on an internet forum. If you're easy about labeling others but take yourself so seriously that you can't see it in yourself then there's nothing I can say that'll help you.

 

There's a difference between accepting you're an internet tit not qualified to argue against expert advice and deciding you are. I'm not arguing their advice. I know for a fact they know more than I do. I fully accept it.

If you can't see that difference there's nothing I can say to help you.

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

What more can be done?

We've had to get doctors and nurses out of retirement and put final year medical students on the front lines just to prevent a total collapse of the system.

There are no more staff to be had.

They're all fighting Covid-19.

 

Probably more spare capacity at present in the NHS than for decades. Maybe in its history

[OBE]

1 hour ago, Samuel Camazzola said:

Not if you wear your manky well-fingered mask. 👍 

 

Skanks making the masks manky...beyond help.

[Governor Tarkin]

13 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

There's a difference between accepting you're an internet tit not qualified to argue against expert advice and deciding you are. I'm not arguing their advice. I know for a fact they know more than I do. I fully accept it.

If you can't see that difference there's nothing I can say to help you.

 

I don't want, nor require your help, so do us both a favour and toddle along.

[JFK-1]

19 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I don't want, nor require your help, so do us both a favour and toddle along.

 

No one wants or requires your help on this pandemic, or mine for that matter but then i'm not proposing anything but accepting the experts know more than I do. You're a babbling tit when it comes to the pandemic. So do us all a favour, toddle along and don't try to pretend otherwise.

You're patently one of these kind who think throwing in a last word, any word, no matter how pointless and empty of content regarding the topic somehow validates talking and saying nothing.  I bet you're all over this forum doing exactly that.  It's actually a symptom of egomania.

I know this kind, I had one in my extended family till he recognised the vacuous nature of it and grew out of it. You continue talking while saying absolutely nothing of any relevance to the topic.

And, once more, if you think accepting experts know more than I do is being a tit you carry on with that. Or, toddle along as you seem to imagine is profound.

Edited July 14, 2020 by JFK-1

[I P Knightley]

58 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

**** going anywhere where you couldn't go out of the house without a mask on.

That's not any kind of a holiday.

I can't get my head round the idea of wanting to go on an overseas holiday. 

Airports make me angry at the best of times. To be accurate, people at airports... I'd probably lose my mind with current restrictions in place. 

Then there's the thought of being stuck in an aircraft for a couple of hours breathing recycled air that's been breathed out by others. Another nasty concept at the best of times.

Then when you get anywhere, the locals will resent you being there because you've come from the UK, which is a Covid breeding ground in their eyes.

And half the stuff you want to do is either closed or severely restricted. 

None of it's for me. You can keep your Costa Brava and all of that palaver, I'm telling you mate I'd rather have a week down Margate with all the family.

 

 

[AlimOzturk]

1 hour ago, davemclaren said:

Compulsory mask wearing outside the house from tomorrow midnight In Andalusia, Spain. That will be uncomfortable, particularly for any northern european tourists. 

And so it begins. This is what I was afraid of from the ****ing start. If this is an over riding success there  and people comply then watch compulsory mask wearing spreading like wild fire where ever you want to go. That is a total and utter  disgrace. 
 

Hoping I am just being paranoid Doubt I am though 
 

[I P Knightley]

Just now, AlimOzturk said:

And so it begins. This is what I was afraid of from the ****ing start. If this is an over riding success there  and people comply then watch compulsory mask wearing spreading like wild fire where ever you want to go. That is a total and utter  disgrace. 
 

Hoping I am just being paranoid Doubt I am though 
 

You're being paranoid about wearing a mask either being unhealthy or an imposition on your civic liberties or whatever. 

 

I passed my driving test when wearing a seat belt was optional (recommended to do so to impress the examiner); seat belts in the back were only available in top end cars. Nobody thinks twice now about putting seat belts on. The concept is the same.

 

What is cynical, though, is BloJo's timing of this announcement. Coinciding with a lot of bad news and costings about the feck up that is Brexit. But that's another argument for another thread...

[I P Knightley]

3 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Next will be the compulsory carrying of a smart phone with an app to prove you’ve had the vaccine. 

Big assumption that there will be a vaccine  

[graygo]

6 days in a row with zero deaths in Scotland, only 2 confirmed cases in ICU.

 

Are we winning?

[graygo]

4 hours ago, OBE said:

Why the need for face coverings now?

 

The country is opening up, distancing is reducing, buses/trains are moving from 1/3 capacity to 1/2, definitely more strangers getting closer to each others respiratory tracts.

 

Why in a shop and as of tomorrow not in a pub?

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Just now, graygo said:

6 days in a row with zero deaths in Scotland, only 2 confirmed cases in ICU.

 

Are we winning?

 

With the trend we are on, you'd like to think so, just have to keep doing what we're doing, as it seems to be working.

[JFK-1]

1 minute ago, graygo said:

6 days in a row with zero deaths in Scotland, only 2 confirmed cases in ICU.

 

Are we winning?

 

It's impressive given what's happening elsewhere.

[Don Dan]

Pleasing results again today. 🙏 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, graygo said:

6 days in a row with zero deaths in Scotland, only 2 confirmed cases in ICU.

 

Are we winning?

Cautiously optimistic, first Monday since March with no reported deaths.  

[Frank]

14 hours ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Imbecile. 

Imagine having my own opinion - the shame!

[OBE]

1 minute ago, graygo said:

 

Why in a shop and as of tomorrow not in a pub?

 

Maybe less movement in a pub with less footfall. 

[Governor Tarkin]

20 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

 

None of it's for me. You can keep your Costa Brava and all of that palaver, I'm telling you mate I'd rather have a week down Margate with all the family.

 

 

 

Agreed. Off up to the north of chilly Jockland next week. Can't wait.

 

16 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

 

I passed my driving test when wearing a seat belt was optional (recommended to do so to impress the examiner); seat belts in the back were only available in top end cars. Nobody thinks twice now about putting seat belts on. The concept is the same.

 

Seatbelts don't ruin your weekly letch at the talent in Tesco, however.

 

13 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Just like old times for the women of Al-Andalus! 😜

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, davemclaren said:

Compulsory mask wearing outside the house from tomorrow midnight In Andalusia, Spain. That will be uncomfortable, particularly for any northern european tourists. 

 

Just knew this would happen, was one of several reasons why we decided no foreign holidays this year.

Wearing a face mask in 30c - 35c+ no thanks, not my idea of a holiday, no way.

 

Watch this space, the rest of Europe & the UK will be next.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 in intensive care and 2 new infection cases yesterday. 

[Governor Tarkin]

22 minutes ago, graygo said:

6 days in a row with zero deaths in Scotland, only 2 confirmed cases in ICU.

 

Are we winning?

 

I'm not qualified to say.

[graygo]

15 minutes ago, OBE said:

 

Maybe less movement in a pub with less footfall. 

 

Maybe, but not in all types of shop and all pubs.

Looks like they've just drawn a line to save confusion because none of us can be trusted to use our judgement.