Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Yep, so showing the dangers of voting in a single issue protest party 

Of course. I’m no supporter of any party but it’s obvious they’ll do anything to get their goal. For a  supposedly left of centre democratic political party it is really surprising that none of their number have publicly opposed any of the restrictions at any time.  

[Ex member of the SaS]

15 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

The numbers of posters commenting that Boris can’t act for fear of his back benchers as if that is a bad thing shows how much of a mess Scotland is in.  That’s exactly how a mainstream political party should operate;  Dissenting voiced within the party scrutinising their leaders decisions and holding them to account.

 

They (albeit a minority) are representing the views of their constituents by saying enough is enough.  Interestingly there is also a difference of opinion within the Labour Party on restrictions. 

 

Not in Scotland though, not one single SNP MP or MSP has challenged the leaders thinking, not one.  That’s not democracy given we know for a fact the are huge swathes of the population, including SNP voters, who don’t agree with their current approach.

Scotland would be a far healthier country (in every sense of that word) if the SNP acted like a normal political party and allowed for scrutiny and a difference of opinion.  

 

As the party in OPPOSITION Labour should be joining the dissenters, but the clown in charge wants more restrictions instead of going against the party in power.

As Labour leader he is meant to be putting forward policies that are different from the ruling government.

[Lord Montpelier]

9 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Of course. I’m no supporter of any party but it’s obvious they’ll do anything to get their goal. For a  supposedly left of centre democratic political party it is really surprising that none of their number have publicly opposed any of the restrictions at any time.  

Was chatting with my father in law in the pub last night about this (in England, with loads of other people, brilliant, a debate , Sturgeon would be raging which we all agreed would be a good thing). 

 

My thinking has always been that the libertarians are aligned generally with the left . The right being more hard line. He pointed out that what we've seen of late is a bit of a reversal of this, with the hard left seeking to command and control our actions and thoughts and the right in the UK anyway favoring a less restricted society. 

[frankblack]

15 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

As the party in OPPOSITION Labour should be joining the dissenters, but the clown in charge wants more restrictions instead of going against the party in power.

As Labour leader he is meant to be putting forward policies that are different from the ruling government.

 

Their leader is a complete joke.  Stands up against Sturgeon in her ward instead of taking on a marginal SNP seat, and falls back onto getting in via the list.  That was as cowardly and stupid an action I've ever seen in politics.  Then he refuses to work with the other pro-union parties to strategically go with the strongest pro union party in each seat - result is SNP get a majority because this clown rejected the chance to take power.

 

The other parties - particularly Labour are a shambles which is keeping the SNP in power at Holyrood but they are miles from getting over the line in another Indy vote.

Edited December 28, 2021 by frankblack

[Roxy Hearts]

58 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I'd love to Roxy but I'm hiding under my bed, petrified that covid will get me, whilst awaiting the latest dictat from Chief Mammy on my wind up SNP provided radio (which was a bribe) ☹

 

 

😂👍

🤣

[GinRummy]

13 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Was chatting with my father in law in the pub last night about this (in England, with loads of other people, brilliant, a debate , Sturgeon would be raging which we all agreed would be a good thing). 

 

My thinking has always been that the libertarians are aligned generally with the left . The right being more hard line. He pointed out that what we've seen of late is a bit of a reversal of this, with the hard left seeking to command and control our actions and thoughts and the right in the UK anyway favoring a less restricted society. 

Sounds an interesting debate. Even on this forum and this thread a lot of debates are ruined by peoples determination to either defend or attack the snp. There are folk who have defended absolutely everything they (or more like she) has done. Last line of defence usually being she has done better than Boris (so done extremely badly but a wee bit better than that doughnut, so it’s fine). What an incredibly low bar to set. 

[Taffin]

1 hour ago, Brighton Jambo said:

The numbers of posters commenting that Boris can’t act for fear of his back benchers as if that is a bad thing shows how much of a mess Scotland is in.  That’s exactly how a mainstream political party should operate;  Dissenting voiced within the party scrutinising their leaders decisions and holding them to account.

 

They (albeit a minority) are representing the views of their constituents by saying enough is enough.  Interestingly there is also a difference of opinion within the Labour Party on restrictions. 

 

Not in Scotland though, not one single SNP MP or MSP has challenged the leaders thinking, not one.  That’s not democracy given we know for a fact the are huge swathes of the population, including SNP voters, who don’t agree with their current approach.

Scotland would be a far healthier country (in every sense of that word) if the SNP acted like a normal political party and allowed for scrutiny and a difference of opinion.  

 

 

I totally agree, it's how it should work. Those holding him hostage are staying true to their conservative values of minimal state intervention...which is what the UK populace voted for. They're providing the voice of what the public voted for.

 

It's not how I vote but I respect that the majority (plurality?) did and therefore they should get the government, behaviours and ideology they voted for.

 

That doesn't mean to say I think Sturgeon is getting it wrong. She's also simply providing what her electorate vote for. Mollycoddling imo but if it's what people want then fair play.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

51 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

They stated early on they need 280 people in hospital to know how bad this strain would be, However the strain is mild so number take long to reach that high. They also know from South Africa that people were being admitted for aids and other reasons ( aids is still high over there ) only to find they had Omicron. They have known for a long time now that Omicron is mild and keep using the POSSIBLITY that high numbers means more in hospital.

Every time you listen they use words like possibly, maybe, could be, all the time knowing they are lying.

So take away testing ( testing only proves you have it ( or not ) and many are finding the symptoms are so mild they didn't even know until the test. OK that means you could be passing it on.......BUT the tests only show results two or three days after you are most infectious. Now we have the booster and recent reports state that the booster looses efficacy after 10 weeks.

The simple thing is take away restrictions and allow us to judge the level of risk each person is wiling to take.

Vaccinated or not doesn't stop you getting it or passing it on and while in most cases those who are jab don't generally take it as bad many still do.

The only ones benefitting are those making money from Vaccines and PPE.

If you are watching TV and this is making you afraid then stay in and leave the rest of us to get on with life.

 

I'm sure I heard that it was 400 admissions per day in London but the highest so far is 280, could be wrong.

[Hmfc1965]

54 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Of course. I’m no supporter of any party but it’s obvious they’ll do anything to get their goal. For a  supposedly left of centre democratic political party it is really surprising that none of their number have publicly opposed any of the restrictions at any time.  

It isn't really. Despite years in government they still behave like a minority protest party.

So any criticism of any policy or action is attacking the independence movement. 

Cult right enough. 

[stevie1874]

2 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

That’s just silly. Independence is essentially a non partisan issue. Yes it’s being driven by the SNP but they are in power on a purely Independence platform because there is nowhere else for the Pro Indy electorate to go. Once independence is achieved the political landscape in Scotland will shift  dramatically IMO, away from the SNP and back towards the traditional mainstream parties, or Scottish versions of them. The SNP are a means to an end for a substantial number of YES voters. NS will not be FM of an independent Scotland for more than one parliament IMO and might not even get the one. I’m not a fan of her recent handling of this pandemic. Banning football crowds was an utterly ludicrous, baseless and wholly contradictory decision and the straw that broke the camels back for me.

So she’ll basically mirror Farage when brexit came to fruition? Disappear of into the sunset and let others try and sort out the mess. Their must be an alternative for people to vote on other than Independence  in the world we live in at the moment. Financial suicide  for Scotland imo. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

For me, it’s all a bit confusing. Someone goes to hospital with something completely unrelated while having asymptomatic covid and goes down as a covid hospital admission? Someone else is in hospital with an unrelated illness and catches covid and goes down as a covid hospitalisation? If that is correct then clear data is needed on how many are included in these circumstances. 
 

I’ve heard about this, passing away from something else and being included in the figures. Clearly paints the wrong picture.

 

All the data since the start of this whole pandemic has been utter nonsense tbh. 

 

Your not alone there.

What I can't understand is why would any government attribute more deaths to covid when you don't need to.

Unless of course, right at the start they thought there wouldn't be many deaths and were kinda stuck with the system they had when the death toll began to rise, they couldn't change it half way through or they'd get accused of hiding the real total.

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I don't often agree with Charlie Nicholas, but he's spot on here 

 

Charlie Nicholas furiously rips into SPFL for 'deplorable' reaction to Scots gov Covid restrictions - Football Scotland

 

 

 

 

I was sitting here thinking the same.

[Ray Gin]

Omicron absences leave public services in ‘perilous state’
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/27/omicron-absences-leave-public-services-in-a-perilous-state

 

 

London's NHS workforce absence rate currently sits at 30%. Not great for the NHS backlog, cancer patients awaiting treatment etc. 

[The Mighty Thor]

40 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

I was sitting here thinking the same.

 

[Footballfirst]

1 hour ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Was chatting with my father in law in the pub last night about this (in England, with loads of other people, brilliant, a debate , Sturgeon would be raging which we all agreed would be a good thing). 

 

My thinking has always been that the libertarians are aligned generally with the left . The right being more hard line. He pointed out that what we've seen of late is a bit of a reversal of this, with the hard left seeking to command and control our actions and thoughts and the right in the UK anyway favoring a less restricted society. 

I think the libertarians are almost always aligned with the right.  The "I'm all right jack", individual freedoms, unregulated economy, only pay for what you use, low taxes, privatisation, small government etc.

 

The left have always been the parties that believe in the common good, a society, shared responsibilities, taking care of the vulnerable, state ownership/control etc.

 

The only time that the right get interested in the "common good" is when there is money to be had in the form of state handouts or bailouts for businesses, e.g. after the 2008 financial crash.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Correct.  It seems very rare, during covid or otherwise, that an SNP back bencher (or cabinet member for that matter) has come out and openly challenged the leadership. Cherry I think did, and look what happened to her. That's not healthy in any democracy, stinks in fact . 

Yes Cherry is a way above her league in every conceivable way. A real threat to her leadership hence being sent to Siberia really.  There really is no comparison between them . 

2 hours ago, GinRummy said:

It’s fairly unsurprising though. Let’s face it, the sole purpose of the party is independence. Hardly surprising that its politicians will compromise all their other beliefs and opinions for what they believe is the greater good. 

Yep

1 hour ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

They stated early on they need 280 people in hospital to know how bad this strain would be, However the strain is mild so number take long to reach that high. They also know from South Africa that people were being admitted for aids and other reasons ( aids is still high over there ) only to find they had Omicron. They have known for a long time now that Omicron is mild and keep using the POSSIBLITY that high numbers means more in hospital.

Every time you listen they use words like possibly, maybe, could be, all the time knowing they are lying.

So take away testing ( testing only proves you have it ( or not ) and many are finding the symptoms are so mild they didn't even know until the test. OK that means you could be passing it on.......BUT the tests only show results two or three days after you are most infectious. Now we have the booster and recent reports state that the booster looses efficacy after 10 weeks.

The simple thing is take away restrictions and allow us to judge the level of risk each person is wiling to take.

Vaccinated or not doesn't stop you getting it or passing it on and while in most cases those who are jab don't generally take it as bad many still do.

The only ones benefitting are those making money from Vaccines and PPE.

If you are watching TV and this is making you afraid then stay in and leave the rest of us to get on with life.

Good post 

1 hour ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

As the party in OPPOSITION Labour should be joining the dissenters, but the clown in charge wants more restrictions instead of going against the party in power.

As Labour leader he is meant to be putting forward policies that are different from the ruling government.

Labour have been shambolic  regarding Covid. They have been even more right wing than most of the Tories. 

1 hour ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Was chatting with my father in law in the pub last night about this (in England, with loads of other people, brilliant, a debate , Sturgeon would be raging which we all agreed would be a good thing). 

 

My thinking has always been that the libertarians are aligned generally with the left . The right being more hard line. He pointed out that what we've seen of late is a bit of a reversal of this, with the hard left seeking to command and control our actions and thoughts and the right in the UK anyway favoring a less restricted society. 

Had similar conversation with a mate yesterday. I cant beleive I am in agreement with many Tories regarding their opposition to restrictions and lockdowns. Good on them. At least they have balls compared to the spineless " left" 

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

Sounds an interesting debate. Even on this forum and this thread a lot of debates are ruined by peoples determination to either defend or attack the snp. There are folk who have defended absolutely everything they (or more like she) has done. Last line of defence usually being she has done better than Boris (so done extremely badly but a wee bit better than that doughnut, so it’s fine). What an incredibly low bar to set. 

Its an incredibly low bar so comparing her " achievements " with him is hardly a compliment 

18 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

Omicron absences leave public services in ‘perilous state’
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/27/omicron-absences-leave-public-services-in-a-perilous-state

 

 

London's NHS workforce absence rate currently sits at 30%. Not great for the NHS backlog, cancer patients awaiting treatment etc. 

Only due to the ludicrous self isolation policy. 

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I think the libertarians are almost always aligned with the right.  The "I'm all right jack", individual freedoms, unregulated economy, only pay for what you use, low taxes, privatisation, small government etc.

 

The left have always been the parties that believe in the common good, a society, shared responsibilities, taking care of the vulnerable, state ownership/control etc.

 

The only time that the right get interested in the "common good" is when there is money to be had in the form of state handouts or bailouts for businesses, e.g. after the 2008 financial crash.

 

This

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I think the libertarians are almost always aligned with the right.  The "I'm all right jack", individual freedoms, unregulated economy, only pay for what you use, low taxes, privatisation, small government etc.

 

The left have always been the parties that believe in the common good, a society, shared responsibilities, taking care of the vulnerable, state ownership/control etc.

 

The only time that the right get interested in the "common good" is when there is money to be had in the form of state handouts or bailouts for businesses, e.g. after the 2008 financial crash.

I'm a mixture of both actually as evidenced in many of my various postings on various threads. Individual freedoms and responsibilities but also tempered with the knowledge that structural inequalities make it difficult for those at the bottom of society to move up the ladder. 

[Savage Vince]

3 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

The deaths of those children also didn't say if they had underlying health conditions. I can almost guarantee that 100% of them did. Anyway it was an emotive posting to elicit the usual response. 

 

 

Utterly vile. 

[NANOJAMBO]

9 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I think the libertarians are almost always aligned with the right.  The "I'm all right jack", individual freedoms, unregulated economy, only pay for what you use, low taxes, privatisation, small government etc.

 

The left have always been the parties that believe in the common good, a society, shared responsibilities, taking care of the vulnerable, state ownership/control etc.

 

The only time that the right get interested in the "common good" is when there is money to be had in the form of state handouts or bailouts for businesses, e.g. after the 2008 financial crash.

Great post.

Looking forward to the numerous refutations that are sure to follow. 

[Francis Albert]

12 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I think the libertarians are almost always aligned with the right.  The "I'm all right jack", individual freedoms, unregulated economy, only pay for what you use, low taxes, privatisation, small government etc.

 

The left have always been the parties that believe in the common good, a society, shared responsibilities, taking care of the vulnerable, state ownership/control etc.

 

The only time that the right get interested in the "common good" is when there is money to be had in the form of state handouts or bailouts for businesses, e.g. after the 2008 financial crash.

A grotesque simplification Were Stalin and Mao etc  left or right?

 

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Francis Albert

[redjambo]

10 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I think the libertarians are almost always aligned with the right.  The "I'm all right jack", individual freedoms, unregulated economy, only pay for what you use, low taxes, privatisation, small government etc.

 

The left have always been the parties that believe in the common good, a society, shared responsibilities, taking care of the vulnerable, state ownership/control etc.

 

The only time that the right get interested in the "common good" is when there is money to be had in the form of state handouts or bailouts for businesses, e.g. after the 2008 financial crash.

 

[The Mighty Thor]

13 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I think the libertarians are almost always aligned with the right.  The "I'm all right jack", individual freedoms, unregulated economy, only pay for what you use, low taxes, privatisation, small government etc.

 

The left have always been the parties that believe in the common good, a society, shared responsibilities, taking care of the vulnerable, state ownership/control etc.

 

The only time that the right get interested in the "common good" is when there is money to be had in the form of state handouts or bailouts for businesses, e.g. after the 2008 financial crash.

Good post. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, Savage Vince said:

 

Utterly vile. 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

A grotesque simplification Were Stalin and Mao etc  left or right?

 

 

It is rather simplistic 

[Brighton Jambo]

22 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I think the libertarians are almost always aligned with the right.  The "I'm all right jack", individual freedoms, unregulated economy, only pay for what you use, low taxes, privatisation, small government etc.

 

The left have always been the parties that believe in the common good, a society, shared responsibilities, taking care of the vulnerable, state ownership/control etc.

 

The only time that the right get interested in the "common good" is when there is money to be had in the form of state handouts or bailouts for businesses, e.g. after the 2008 financial crash.

Good post.  Reminds me why I voted conservative before Boris.  State ownership, government intervention, states determining what the ‘common good’ actually is for millions of people with wildly different viewpoints, backgrounds and upbringing is an outdated and unworkable ideology.  
 

I wonder where the SNP sit on the spectrum.  Traditionally aligned to right wing politics, a recent lurch towards the left but now in partnership with the super liberal Greens which would drag them back the right again by your definition.  

Edited December 28, 2021 by Brighton Jambo

[NANOJAMBO]

2 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

The numbers of posters commenting that Boris can’t act for fear of his back benchers as if that is a bad thing shows how much of a mess Scotland is in. Irrelevant

 

 That’s exactly how a mainstream political party should operate;  Dissenting voiced within the party scrutinising their leaders decisions and holding them to account. He's not being held to account , he's being held to ransom and will be voted out PDQ when it suits these nut job right wing libertarian loons. 

 

They (albeit a minority) are representing the views of their constituents by saying enough is enough.  Interestingly there is also a difference of opinion within the Labour Party on restrictions. These people are ignoring science, their own experts (while trash talking them in the media and talking of "propagandists" without the balls to name these "propagandists". These people are forcing Johnson to take action which will see the UK become a pariah for travellers for months to come (quite ironic, really). 

 

Not in Scotland though, not one single SNP MP or MSP has challenged the leaders thinking, not one.  Well, given that Scotland is in step with EVERY MAJOR EUROPEAN COUNTRY that would seem to be a rather odd thing to do. But maybe if the SNP had more scientists & epidemoiligists in its ranks , you never know...

 

That’s not democracy given we know for a fact the are huge swathes of the population, including SNP voters, who don’t agree with their current approach.  Where are the Labour/Tory epidemilogists/experts/scientists testing this in the Holyrood ? Not only telling Scotland it's wrong, but the whole of Europe. Wow !! Just Wow !!

Scotland would be a far healthier country (in every sense of that word) if the SNP acted like a normal political party and allowed for scrutiny and a difference of opinion.  Scotland would be a healthier country if it wasn't chained to the other half of Plague Island by an English PM who puts his own political future above the lives of its citizens. 

 

 

[Brighton Jambo]

2 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

 

You have just posted a load of absolute nonsense whilst completely missing the point.

 

My point was about how unhealthy it is that there is never any dissenting voices or internal challenges within the Scottish government- on any topic, ever.  
 

It’s not how a major democratic political party should work, it’s certainly now what you see in other countries where internal party politics are what act as a check and balance to power.  The fact you can’t grasp that just proves you are part of the problem.

 

 

[Footballfirst]

4 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I wonder where the SNP sit on the spectrum.  Traditionally aligned to right wing politics, a recent lurch towards the left but now in partnership with the super liberal Greens which would drag them back the right again by your definition.  

My recollection of the SNP's is that they they have always been a left of centre party (under Wolffe, Wilson, Salmond and Sturgeon), although were tarred with the "tartan Tories" label after voting with the Tories to bring down the Callaghan government in 1979.  Thereafter they have stuck fairly close to what might be deemed "social democrat" policies, not as far left as socialists. 

[Ray Gin]

13 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Good post.  Reminds me why I voted conservative before Boris.  State ownership, government intervention, states determining what the ‘common good’ actually is for millions of people with wildly different viewpoints, backgrounds and upbringing is an outdated and unworkable ideology.  
 

I wonder where the SNP sit on the spectrum.  Traditionally aligned to right wing politics, a recent lurch towards the left but now in partnership with the super liberal Greens which would drag them back the right again by your definition.  

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Labour in the " left" box? Thats a joke 

[Brighton Jambo]

5 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Hilarious - did you pull this together or was it one of your kids as part of their primary 7 politics project.  
 

I suspect whoever did doesn’t really understand the meaning of the word authoritarian…

[Brighton Jambo]

9 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

My recollection of the SNP's is that they they have always been a left of centre party (under Wolffe, Wilson, Salmond and Sturgeon), although were tarred with the "tartan Tories" label after voting with the Tories to bring down the Callaghan government in 1979.  Thereafter they have stuck fairly close to what might be deemed "social democrat" policies, not as far left as socialists. 

That’s interesting, I just googled the Callaghan part as didn’t know that. 

[Ray Gin]

4 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Hilarious - did you pull this together or was it one of your kids as part of their primary 7 politics project.  
 

I suspect whoever did doesn’t really understand the meaning of the word authoritarian…

 

No need to be so bitchy.

 

Source:

https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2017

[Brighton Jambo]

3 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

No need to be so bitchy.

 

Source:

https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2017

Sorry, ironically I have Covid and it’s pissing me off as can’t leave the house hence so much time spent on here! Making me more grumpy than usual. 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Brighton Jambo

[The Real Maroonblood]

49 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I think the libertarians are almost always aligned with the right.  The "I'm all right jack", individual freedoms, unregulated economy, only pay for what you use, low taxes, privatisation, small government etc.

 

The left have always been the parties that believe in the common good, a society, shared responsibilities, taking care of the vulnerable, state ownership/control etc.

 

The only time that the right get interested in the "common good" is when there is money to be had in the form of state handouts or bailouts for businesses, e.g. after the 2008 financial crash.

Spot on.

[NANOJAMBO]

6 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

You have just posted a load of absolute nonsense whilst completely missing the point.

 

My point was about how unhealthy it is that there is never any dissenting voices or internal challenges within the Scottish government- on any topic, ever.  
 

It’s not how a major democratic political party should work, it’s certainly now what you see in other countries where internal party politics are what act as a check and balance to power.  The fact you can’t grasp that just proves you are part of the problem.

 

 

You posted a load of drivel about how Johnson's govt is being held to account (it isn't) and spoke about the lack of disssent in the SNP.  You  laughably introduce Johnson and his right wing loons as though they are some kind of exemplar of how good democracy works/should work. 

 

It's not the SNPs fault there is an apparent lack of democracy in Scotland (in your view) - that's also the job of the opposition parties , who're clearly not very good at it. And again, I find it very strange that you are angry that the SNP (with its lack of internal dissent, in YOUR opinion ) and the failure of Scottish "opposition" parties haven't brought about a change in health policy - a policy that is currently in step with every major country in Europe. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Footballfirst]

Hospitalisations now increasing more markedly in England.

 

[Ray Gin]

2 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Sorry, ironically I have Covid and it’s pissing me off as can’t leave the house hence so much time spent on here! Making me more grumpy than usual. 

 

I'm sure I'd be grumpy too tbf. Hope you're back in full health soon.

[Brighton Jambo]

Just now, Ray Gin said:

 

I'm sure I'd be grumpy too tbf. Hope you're back in full health soon.

Thanks

[The Mighty Thor]

13 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Hospitalisations now increasing more markedly in England.

 

Oh. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

libertarian is more about the extent of government involvement/role in the individuals life

This  is exactly where i stand. Governments should have the most minimal intervention in peoples lives. Thats probably why I have had " issues" with various lockdowns/ etc. Whether it makes me right wing or left wing I dont care. 

[Hmfc1965]

28 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

You posted a load of drivel about how Johnson's govt is being held to account (it isn't) and spoke about the lack of disssent in the SNP.  You  laughably introduce Johnson and his right wing loons as though they are some kind of exemplar of how good democracy works/should work. 

 

It's not the SNPs fault there is an apparent lack of democracy in Scotland (in your view) - that's also the job of the opposition parties , who're clearly not very good at it. And again, I find it very strange that you are angry that the SNP (with its lack of internal dissent, in YOUR opinion ) and the failure of Scottish "opposition" parties haven't brought about a change in health policy - a policy that is currently in step with every major country in Europe. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can you give me one example of internal dissent in the SNP?

Other than the gender debate that ended so well for Joanna Cherry. 

[Brighton Jambo]

33 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

You posted a load of drivel about how Johnson's govt is being held to account (it isn't) and spoke about the lack of disssent in the SNP.  You  laughably introduce Johnson and his right wing loons as though they are some kind of exemplar of how good democracy works/should work. 

 

It's not the SNPs fault there is an apparent lack of democracy in Scotland (in your view) - that's also the job of the opposition parties , who're clearly not very good at it. And again, I find it very strange that you are angry that the SNP (with its lack of internal dissent, in YOUR opinion ) and the failure of Scottish "opposition" parties haven't brought about a change in health policy - a policy that is currently in step with every major country in Europe. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-accused-gagging-own-mps-stalin-2473803?amp

 

A quote from the article - ‘A controversial change to standing orders was overwhelmingly agreed at conference yesterday and states that no MPs shall “publicly criticise a group decision, policy or another member of the group”

This is not normal, ever and not how a democratic political party should work.

 

You keep mentioning Boris, I can stand the man or frankly the current version of the conservatives.  I would never vote for them but I am pleased that at least they are prepared to challenge each other when they don’t agree on a policy or approach. Those SNP rules are Orwellian.  

 

 

[Hmfc1965]

5 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/snp-accused-gagging-own-mps-stalin-2473803?amp

 

A quote from the article - ‘A controversial change to standing orders was overwhelmingly agreed at conference yesterday and states that no MPs shall “publicly criticise a group decision, policy or another member of the group”

This is not normal, ever and not how a democratic political party should work.

 

You keep mentioning Boris, I can stand the man or frankly the current version of the conservatives.  I would never vote for them but I am pleased that at least they are prepared to challenge each other when they don’t agree on a policy or approach. Those SNP rules are Orwellian.  

 

 

It's pathetic,  particularly for a party that's formed a government for the last 10 odd years. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

44 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

You posted a load of drivel about how Johnson's govt is being held to account (it isn't) and spoke about the lack of disssent in the SNP.  You  laughably introduce Johnson and his right wing loons as though they are some kind of exemplar of how good democracy works/should work. 

 

It's not the SNPs fault there is an apparent lack of democracy in Scotland (in your view) - that's also the job of the opposition parties , who're clearly not very good at it. And again, I find it very strange that you are angry that the SNP (with its lack of internal dissent, in YOUR opinion ) and the failure of Scottish "opposition" parties haven't brought about a change in health policy - a policy that is currently in step with every major country in Europe. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It never is Ian is it? 

[doctor jambo]

Nobody questions why any government with its salt did not increase Nhs capacity to meet winter need?

all coronavirus including this one rise in the winter, but no wards built, no extra capacity, no planning.

hundreds of billions spanked on testing , tracing, locking down.

this was predictable and manageable , yet no govt did anything about it

[manaliveits105]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

A grotesque simplification Were Stalin and Mao etc  left or right?

 

 

Or Putin  or Sturgeon ?

[Footballfirst]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

A grotesque simplification Were Stalin and Mao etc  left or right?

 

5 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Or Putin  or Sturgeon ?

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others - George Orwell - Animal Farm 1945

Edited December 28, 2021 by Footballfirst

[JudyJudyJudy]

13 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

It never is Ian is it? 

They are always the victim. Who would they blame in an Indy Scotland if they were in Govt. ? 

2 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

 

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others - George Orwell - Animal Farm 1945