Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 minute ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

fat unvaccinated consultants who smoke, drink and won't wear a mask.

 

 

 

Ffy

[Enzo Chiefo]

59 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

The data from SA is compelling if you live in Cape Town or Johannesburg but not if you live in Edinburgh or London. 

 

Remind me whether the hospitalisations in Scotland are going up or down?

London has 30% of the population who have not even had a single vaccine. If hospitalisations are going up there ...then quite frankly...tough!

[Fxxx the SPFL]

3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Remind me whether the hospitalisations in Scotland are going up or down?

London has 30% of the population who have not even had a single vaccine. If hospitalisations are going up there ...then quite frankly...tough!

Spot on as far as I am concerned stop all the testing too many people getting sent home from work nothing wrong with them but they’ve been in close contact with someone who tested positive. If you fall ill stay off work if there is nothing wrong with you carry on working. IMO of course 

[1971fozzy]

7 hours ago, Savage Vince said:

Not looking too good in London at the moment. Lots of unvaccinated folks going into hospital. 

 

6 hours ago, joondalupjambo said:

London is falling so no doubt we will now see restrictions, financial assistance to business, travel bans et al.  As it ever is when something happens in the centre of the universe.  Watch this space.

 

 

30% or thereabouts in London haven’t taken a vaccine so it’s no wonder. Disgrace if we all fall as a result of these arseholes.  If it was up to me (unless there is a medical reason for not having a jag) they most certainly should not be given priority in the NHS. They should be quarantined in their homes

Edited December 18, 2021 by 1971fozzy

[Nucky Thompson]

8 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Remind me whether the hospitalisations in Scotland are going up or down?

London has 30% of the population who have not even had a single vaccine. If hospitalisations are going up there ...then quite frankly...tough!

They can't even be going up that much because nationally people in hospital and ICU are lower than last week

 

If hospitalisations and deaths in South Africa were spiralling out of control, the same poster would be pointing to their data and screaming the place down

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 minute ago, **** the SPFL said:

Spot on as far as I am concerned stop all the testing too many people getting sent home from work nothing wrong with them but they’ve been in close contact with someone who tested positive. If you fall ill stay off work if there is nothing wrong with you carry on working. IMO of course 

Yip, exactly. I won't be doing a single asymptomatic lateral flow test on the basis of State diktats or "guidance". I was in the Spoons on Waverley Bridge today and they were queuing to get in. A lot of maskless folk too....for that reason, I "forgot" to do track & trace. No way anyone would want "pinged" at this time of year. Covid is now like any seasonal respiratory virus. As you say, if you're OK carry on, if not, get a test or go the Chemist/GP. We live with this thing going forward.

[Enzo Chiefo]

Just now, Nucky Thompson said:

They can't even be going up that much because nationally people in hospital and ICU are lower than last week

 

If hospitalisations and deaths in South Africa were spiralling out of control, the same poster would be pointing to their data and screaming the place down

Exactly NT. 

[Footballfirst]

Just for reference - Daily Covid hospital admissions in England and London since Omicron arrived (latest stats to 12 Dec. published on 16 Dec.).

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Footballfirst

[1971fozzy]

8 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yip, exactly. I won't be doing a single asymptomatic lateral flow test on the basis of State diktats or "guidance". I was in the Spoons on Waverley Bridge today and they were queuing to get in. A lot of maskless folk too....for that reason, I "forgot" to do track & trace. No way anyone would want "pinged" at this time of year. Covid is now like any seasonal respiratory virus. As you say, if you're OK carry on, if not, get a test or go the Chemist/GP. We live with this thing going forward.

exactly how I feel as well.

[1971fozzy]

3 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Just for reference - Daily Covid hospital admissions in England and London since Omicron arrived (latest stats to 12 Dec. published on 16 Dec.).

 

speaks volumes that

[Lone Striker]

6 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

We have built new hospital recently. It was a disaster. It cost millions to build and millions more to fix. There's your waste, right there in front of you.

Indeed - thats on the construction and fit-out side of the project, some of which only came to light after they were operational  (with tragic consequences).

 

  I was interpreting the comments from posters about waste and efficiency as referring to the day-to-day medical service provided by staff and equipment (apologies if I've picked that up wrongly).   

 

Its difficult to measure operational efficiency in a medical/surgical setting and compare it meaningfully to a "standard".  You'd think that among the large number of senior NHS managers that some would be seriously looking at the whole  A&E process (end-to-end from initial contact).

 

Cue the hiring of another army of expensive management consultants  !
 

 

[Lone Striker]

8 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Just for reference - Daily Covid hospital admissions in England and London since Omicron arrived (latest stats to 12 Dec. published on 16 Dec.).

 

Whats the average length of stay in hospital for Covid ?  For example,  if its 5 days then at the start of the 12th Dec, there were roughly 600 folk in London hospitals before the 157 arrived.   Is that a lot, or well within capacity - I've no idea.     

[InternationalJambo]

54 minutes ago, **** the SPFL said:

Spot on as far as I am concerned stop all the testing too many people getting sent home from work nothing wrong with them but they’ve been in close contact with someone who tested positive. If you fall ill stay off work if there is nothing wrong with you carry on working. IMO of course 

It’s almost as if some members of the public are in favour of the governments attempt to dictate our lives 🤔

Edited December 18, 2021 by InternationalJambo

[Aaron78]

48 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yip, exactly. I won't be doing a single asymptomatic lateral flow test on the basis of State diktats or "guidance". I was in the Spoons on Waverley Bridge today and they were queuing to get in. A lot of maskless folk too....for that reason, I "forgot" to do track & trace. No way anyone would want "pinged" at this time of year. Covid is now like any seasonal respiratory virus. As you say, if you're OK carry on, if not, get a test or go the Chemist/GP. We live with this thing going forward.

It's mental. We're all going to be punished with more restrictions because people are too stupid to get vaccinated. 

 

Sorry, I'm done with it. I've had covid, now triple vaccinated and don't deserve for my life to be restricted because of the selfish actions of others. Let the morons who don't want vaccinated suffer. 

 

Work out a system that considers vaccination status when treating people and if that means the unvaccinated die in hospital corridors or stuck out in the car park, then tough luck....let's focus on saving those who deserve it. 

 

 

 

[Ulysses]

17 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I was only referring to Enzo's comment about data coming out of SA. 

 

Oops, reading my post back it looks like I'm arguing with you (and with Enzo), but that's not what I intended.  It's more a case of wishful thinking competing with worry on my part and neither side winning. 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Ulysses

[Gizmo]

3 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yip, exactly. I won't be doing a single asymptomatic lateral flow test on the basis of State diktats or "guidance". I was in the Spoons on Waverley Bridge today and they were queuing to get in. A lot of maskless folk too....for that reason, I "forgot" to do track & trace. No way anyone would want "pinged" at this time of year. Covid is now like any seasonal respiratory virus. As you say, if you're OK carry on, if not, get a test or go the Chemist/GP. We live with this thing going forward.

Wishful thinking. 

[The Mighty Thor]

So the critical thinkerati coronavirus exit strategy is to stop testing?

No testing means no cases and et voila the virus is gone.

 

I can't believe no one with a big brain hasn't already thought of that.......oh wait 

Edited December 19, 2021 by The Mighty Thor

[Bindy Badgy]

9 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

They never, never ever, quote a single figure.

 

Obviously not. Any competant statistician will give confidence intervals for any predictions. There are far too many variables and unknown factors for them to be able to give a single figure.

 

I don't understand why you seem to think that giving a range of likely values is a negative.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Bindy Badgy

[Enzo Chiefo]

8 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Just for reference - Daily Covid hospital admissions in England and London since Omicron arrived (latest stats to 12 Dec. published on 16 Dec.).

 

And just for context, 30% of Londoners have not had a single vaccine dose. You would think Sadiq Khan would have mentioned that, again for context, rather than simply talk of a "crisis".

I think that 3 weeks on from the first Omicron case being discovered in the UK, and with all the evidence from SA, they must have a fair idea that the variant is a good bit weaker.

Again, I'll reiterate that if the SG were as worried as their hysterical language suggests, no way would 50k be allowed to gather, packing buses and trains to get there, at Hampden today.

When did "financially compensating those affected" suddenly trump the tired old "keeping people safe" mantra that the FM has trumpeted for the best part of 2 years now? 

[kila]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

So the critical thinkerati coronavirus exit strategy is to stop testing?

No testing means no cases and et voila the virus is gone.

 

I can't believe no one with a big brain hasn't already thought of that.......oh wait 

 

[XB52]

10 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

They can't even be going up that much because nationally people in hospital and ICU are lower than last week

 

If hospitalisations and deaths in South Africa were spiralling out of control, the same poster would be pointing to their data and screaming the place down

Deaths up 50% in the last week in SA. To be fair they were starting from a pretty low figure 

[ri Alban]

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 hours ago, Bindy Badgy said:

 

Obviously not. Any competant statistician will give confidence intervals for any predictions. There are far too many variables and unknown factors for them to be able to give a single figure.

 

I don't understand why you seem to think that giving a range of likely values is a negative.

If you read the Spectator article, they are only being asked for worst case scenarios to be evaluated. The ranges as such are 0 to xxxxxxxxxx.

Government then shown these as 'this is what could happen' and make decision. Headline given to cause panic and drive fear. We get Tsunamis, and Tidal waves mentioned but never a, well it might be okay.

No scenario is shown where no action is required.

 

 

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

11 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Not seen you about for ages? Trust your okay?

[Don Dan]

Piers Corbyn arrested 'after call to burn down MPs' homes'

Brother of former Labour leader Jeremy is known for his anti-Covid lockdown protest speeches

 

By Telegraph reporters
19 Dec 2021 - 09:41AM GMT

 

Piers Corbyn, the anti-lockdown protester, has been arrested on suspicion of encouraging people to burn down MPs' offices.

The Metropolitan Police said a man in his 70s - who it did not name - was arrested in south London in the early hours of Sunday.

"The arrest relates to a video posted online in which people were encouraged to burn down MPs' offices," the force said.

Earlier, the Met said it was assessing a video which appears to show Mr Corbyn, 74, calling for MPs' offices to be burned down.

The video, shared on social media, shows the brother of former Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn criticising politicians who voted for Covid restrictions.

After decrying "those scum who have decided to go ahead with introducing new fascism", the 74-year-old tells a crowd in the video: "You've got to get a list of them... and if your MP is one of them, go to their offices and, well, I would recommend burning them down, OK. But I can't say that on air. I hope we're not on air."

Edited December 19, 2021 by Boy Daniel

[Savage Vince]

47 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

 

😁

[Don Dan]

[ri Alban]

Pity the government and all devolved parliaments didn't show the same proactive balls last year. Better late than never.

Edited December 19, 2021 by ri Alban

[ri Alban]

The majority in hospital are the none vaccinated. We really need to convince these folk, or we'll never get a grip of this. 

[NANOJAMBO]

5 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:

These symptoms are identical to what me and the missus experienced after getting the Pfizer booster about 4 weeks ago. 

[NANOJAMBO]

14 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:

Piers Corbyn arrested 'after call to burn down MPs' homes'

Brother of former Labour leader Jeremy is known for his anti-Covid lockdown protest speeches

 

By Telegraph reporters
19 Dec 2021 - 09:41AM GMT

 

Piers Corbyn, the anti-lockdown protester, has been arrested on suspicion of encouraging people to burn down MPs' offices.

The Metropolitan Police said a man in his 70s - who it did not name - was arrested in south London in the early hours of Sunday.

"The arrest relates to a video posted online in which people were encouraged to burn down MPs' offices," the force said.

Earlier, the Met said it was assessing a video which appears to show Mr Corbyn, 74, calling for MPs' offices to be burned down.

The video, shared on social media, shows the brother of former Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn criticising politicians who voted for Covid restrictions.

After decrying "those scum who have decided to go ahead with introducing new fascism", the 74-year-old tells a crowd in the video: "You've got to get a list of them... and if your MP is one of them, go to their offices and, well, I would recommend burning them down, OK. But I can't say that on air. I hope we're not on air."

Excellent news.

He's a menace to public health and should be in jail. 

[Victorian]

What a shame that Piers Corbyn could go to prison for 10 years.  

[ri Alban]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

What a shame that Piers Corbyn could go to prison for 10 years.  

Hopefully. But it does give me a different opinion on his brother. 2 peas in a pod.

[NANOJAMBO]

11 minutes ago, Victorian said:

What a shame that Piers Corbyn could go to prison for 10 years.  

I'd visit him. It'd be a pleasure. 

[Bindy Badgy]

1 hour ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

If you read the Spectator article, they are only being asked for worst case scenarios to be evaluated. The ranges as such are 0 to xxxxxxxxxx.

Government then shown these as 'this is what could happen' and make decision. Headline given to cause panic and drive fear. We get Tsunamis, and Tidal waves mentioned but never a, well it might be okay.

No scenario is shown where no action is required.

 

 

 

 

I've skimmed over the Spectator article. I'm not going to read to much into an opinion piece based on a few Twitter comments, irrespective of who is making the comments and what side of the debate they fall on. The word limit and combative nature of the medium means that it is a crap format for any sort of complex discussion.

 

Additionally, I don't see what relevance it has to my comment. You stated that the scientists "never, never ever, quote a single figure". My argument is that this is standard practice. They test for a range of possible outcomes and give confidence/credible intervals for each one. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a statistical test that doesn't return a range of possible outcomes.

 

I share your disdain for emotive quotes and headlines. The news should be as dispassionate as possible. Unfortunately, that doesn't sell. I have no idea why government officials engage in this type of behaviour.

Edited December 19, 2021 by Bindy Badgy

[Costanza]

27 minutes ago, Victorian said:

What a shame that Piers Corbyn could go to prison for 10 years.  

A real shame. Need to add an extra couple of years for this as well

(The kids look 30 secs in is priceless)

 

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

14 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

I'm always intrigued by the "waste spending" in the NHS money tree that is just waiting to be harvested.

 

I'm sure that there are some low hanging fruits like the profits reaped in the "cronyvirus" contracts.  Any others?  

 

How about Public Health Scotland? 

[Enzo Chiefo]

14 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

I'm always intrigued by the "waste spending" in the NHS money tree that is just waiting to be harvested.

 

I'm sure that there are some low hanging fruits like the profits reaped in the "cronyvirus" contracts.  Any others?  

Happy to give you an example of the profligacy that takes place in the NHS. My father has had 2  appointments with Consultants over the last month or so. Both took place on a Sat and, on the first occasion,  the Consultant was flown up from the Isle of Wight, ferry from there then a flight from Southampton. Happens every weekend apparently and, of course, hotel accommodation provided. 

Yesterday, his Consultant was from Greece, although he lives in Holland.  Again, flown over every weekend. 

 

[Footballfirst]

12 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Happy to give you an example of the profligacy that takes place in the NHS. My father has had 2  appointments with Consultants over the last month or so. Both took place on a Sat and, on the first occasion,  the Consultant was flown up from the Isle of Wight, ferry from there then a flight from Southampton. Happens every weekend apparently and, of course, hotel accommodation provided. 

Yesterday, his Consultant was from Greece, although he lives in Holland.  Again, flown over every weekend. 

 

I don't dispute what you say and it appears to incur excessive costs.

 

However, you can dismantle and reconstruct the NHS all you want, but if you don't train or recruit sufficient skills in the locations where they are required then you are always going to to have to import specialist resources from elsewhere. 

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Footballfirst

[Bindy Badgy]

14 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Happy to give you an example of the profligacy that takes place in the NHS. My father has had 2  appointments with Consultants over the last month or so. Both took place on a Sat and, on the first occasion,  the Consultant was flown up from the Isle of Wight, ferry from there then a flight from Southampton. Happens every weekend apparently and, of course, hotel accommodation provided. 

Yesterday, his Consultant was from Greece, although he lives in Holland.  Again, flown over every weekend. 

 

 

What was the justification for this? Is it a case of it being a very rare condition that there are few people sufficiently qualified to treat or just understaffing issues?

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 minute ago, Bindy Badgy said:

 

What was the justification for this? Is it a case of it being a very rare condition that there are few people sufficiently qualified to treat or just understaffing issues?

No, not at all. Just a dermatology appointment and, yes, understaffing is the issue.

[Footballfirst]

1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

No, not at all. Just a dermatology appointment and, yes, understaffing is the issue.

Was your dad's consultation the only appointment he had, or was it just one of multiple appointments carried out on the day(s) for the consultant's speciality?

 

If there were multiple appointments then the extra travel costs could be more easily justified.

 

I am aware that the NHS routinely uses private hospitals to help manage their waiting lists, so it's not a surprise if consultants are shipped in to help manage backlogs.

[Taffin]

Javid refusing to rule out pre-christmas lockdown and instead choosing to keep the sword of Damocles hanging in position.

 

Merry Christmas indeed.

[Lone Striker]

50 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Happy to give you an example of the profligacy that takes place in the NHS. My father has had 2  appointments with Consultants over the last month or so. Both took place on a Sat and, on the first occasion,  the Consultant was flown up from the Isle of Wight, ferry from there then a flight from Southampton. Happens every weekend apparently and, of course, hotel accommodation provided. 

Yesterday, his Consultant was from Greece, although he lives in Holland.  Again, flown over every weekend. 

 

I understand your astonishment at this.  However the NHS (and SG Health Secretary) have a simple choice to make - either do nothing to try to shorten waiting times, or spend lots of money  on innovative/unusual  ways to shorten them (pay overtime for weekend/evening work or pay for non-NHS consultants from wherever to work in our hospitals).

 

There's been a shortage of highly qualified consultants in some specialities long before Covid hit.

 

Unfortunately its a case of damned if they do and damned if they don't.

[Taffin]

2 hours ago, Boy Daniel said:

 

People are more afraid of being made to isolate than of catching Covid in my experience this time around. The 'cure' is more disruptive than the ailment.

 

The strategy is working I guess and the government require some credit for that. They've created an environment where people don't want to isolate over Christmas and the 'just in case' in regards to elderly relatives so people are cancelling plans and staying at home. The government aren't destroying hospitality, we are...and as such they can sit back and not fund anyone.

 

 

[steve123]

Maybe been posted before but this seems on the face of it encouraging news 

 

Omicron may be less efficient at attacking lungs compared to other variants, UK study suggests | UK News | Sky News

[NANOJAMBO]

59 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

It’s hard not to draw the conclusion restrictions are incoming. The devolved nations have asked for funding for them, nations across Europe are introducing then including full on lockdown, the tories cabinet aren’t ruling out despite the noise coming from their own party, every piece of modelling is predicting Armageddon and Londons falling down or close to it. 
 

I don’t think we full on lockdown but I expect we see increased restrictions incoming, probably multiple times over the next few weeks. 
 

 

Just read a report from a snr figure in NHS England this morning ; 20% of NHS staff in London currently off sick. The vaccination rates in London are shockingly low.  It's London that needs to be put into lockdown but the Tories will never do that, so we'll all have to suffer. 

[Gizmo]

8 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

So the critical thinkerati coronavirus exit strategy is to stop testing?

No testing means no cases and et voila the virus is gone.

 

I can't believe no one with a big brain hasn't already thought of that.......oh wait 

 

 

It appears the criterati simply want this all to go away and, rather than masking up where appropriate and doing LFTs before and after events to help avoid potential asymptomatic spread and more quickly reach their desired living with it stage, they just wish it away - and it's gone, apparently.

I'm conflicted.

On the one hand, I'd love to get on board the fairy wishes train and just wish this thing away whilst doing absolutely nothing myself to help. Seems very convenient.

On the other hand, not a single scientist has peer reviewed the fairy wishes methodology and, instead, are suggesting huge case rises if we don't take some mitigating steps, telling us that 2 vaccine doeses and/or past infection may not prevent infection and urging caution until we know definitively that Omicron is less pathogenic even though it's more virulent. Hence the rush for boosters and more hints of potential post-Christmas restrictions.

All you can do as a pragmatic sort is take appropriate steps to stay safe (boosters, masks, LFTs when appropriate) so that you can get on with things without inadvertently contributing to the spread. Same as it always was. 

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Gizmo
spelling

[Japan Jambo]

18 hours ago, Gizmo said:

Knowing this government and previous Tory governments they would do the following, probably bringing back Jeremy "sell the NHS" Hunt to oversee it.

1) Underfund the "pleb" class until it's basically useless
2) Take massive backhanders to allow more of the US Health Insurance companies into the mix. 

If we are capable of setting up an efficient system, why don't we just do that with the NHS, which we all fund, instead. 

 

should take a look at the Israeli system - not all over the detail but believe they have four publicly funded health providers for non emergency stuff that compete for customers.

still keeps things free but also starts to hold folks to account.

[Japan Jambo]

18 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Because the NHS is incapable of being restructured. It would be kinder and cheaper to kill it and bring in model that is fit for future. It has fractured management, old buildings, wastes billions each year and is held together by sticky tape.

Now to save us from what you describe and fear, and as it is an absolutely critical and huge, unbelievably huge, project, let's have it run by non political people, people who have experience of health care in 21st century. Personally, I would look to the people who built health system in Middle East countries as they have modern facilities and no political affiliations to UK.

In addition, you need to persuade surgeons, doctors, nurses and administrators that it is worthwhile. If you don't, they'll just work in private sector. They aren't all in it for love of job.

It could be done, if everyone pulled together, it could be done, but if politicians get involved, it will fail.

 

👍 a debate that is long overdue