Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[frankblack]

14 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Over-reacting also costs (and damages) lives. The iimpact takes longer to materialise and is more difficult to quantify. It is not just about missing Christmas parties.

 

(PS the longer term impacts are also a problem for future Governments and ministers.)

 

The wellbeing, fitness, and general mental health of the population takes a battering and its time that governments started dealing with the arseholes who flout the rules e.g. spot checks on buses and chuck them off with fixed penalty fines.

 

I've personally had enough of the brute force measures that affect everyone because some refuse to do the right thing.

Edited December 18, 2021 by frankblack

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

Booster this morning from an appointment I've had for quite a few weeks.  Allermuir Health Centre,  Firrhill.  Found out last night it's also a drop in clinic and there was a fookin huge queue there.  Thankfully a separate queue for the appoinments.  In and out in half an hour.  Expect a very long wait if you were planning on going there today as a drop in. 

Drove past it this morning on way to gym. Personally, I saw queue as a good sign that people want vaccine and are prepared to queue.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

14 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Sturgeon should get shot if this blows over without major incident.

Nobody except her devout followers will take any notice of her again

 

Not just her, but them all, because if this turns out to be a damp squib and all this panic is for nothing, then, who the feck is going to listen to any of them again.  Credibility in politicians is low as it is, it'll be even lower if it turns out that they shat it.

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

12 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

some of probably come from reports that sage are pushing for plan C

 

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-officials-drawing-up-plans-for-two-week-post-christmas-lockdown-over-omicron-threat-reports-say-12498746

 

i dont agree that we are at the point for plan c. there is nothing wrong having the plans in place (and actually there should be plans for all situtations like this and others) and have the conditions that need met for them to be enacted. however as others say at some point we need to get on with normal life and live with it

If we lived life according to SAGE, we would barely go out. These ****ers are loving the attention and power they have and they are in no hurry to go back to their pre-covid anonymity.

[milky_26]

1 minute ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Drove past it this morning on way to gym. Personally, I saw queue as a good sign that people want vaccine and are prepared to queue.

queues are both good and bad. 

 

good - it shows people want to get their vaccines and are willing to wait a few hours maybe more for them.

 

bad - those people on the fence or are not desperate to get theirs see the queues and think "i'm not waiting for a few hours to get it". then they never find a time to get theirs

[Malinga the Swinga]

Just now, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Not just her, but them all, because if this turns out to be a damp squib and all this panic is for nothing, then, who the feck is going to listen to any of them again.  Credibility in politicians is low as it is, it'll be even lower if it turns out that they shat it.

 

It won't be though. They'll claim their actions were responsible for any downturn. It's a no lose for them. It's what Ferguson has taught them.

[milky_26]

Just now, jonesy said:

I very much doubt the folk drawing up the guidelines have any experience of being invited out or socialising beyond staring at their graphs and, thus, would have no idea that this could possibly happen.

that reminds me of the time around 15 years ago they changed the access for private car drivers on some roads in edinburgh. they made it so that you could legally drive onto george street but there was no legal way to drive off george street. IIRC it was because those who made the rules never had a driving licence 

[escobri]

11 minutes ago, Hesh said:

Aye nice deflection, scot govt and nhs scot govt figures so let’s change the subject to excess deaths. No further engagement from me, if you’ve chosen not to have jags up to you, you’ll take the hit if you get seriously ill or your friends and family will if you die 

Serious illness or death 😱 I thought this was a covid thread 🤧 hope your not living in fear and relying on your 2/3 soon to be 4 jags for good health, in the meantime stay safe and enjoy the ride.👍

[Jambo-Jimbo]

8 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

It won't be though. They'll claim their actions were responsible for any downturn. It's a no lose for them. It's what Ferguson has taught them.

 

Sadly you are correct, they have shown many many times just how brazen they are.

[Dennis Denuto]

30 minutes ago, escobri said:

What a crap graph 🤣 what about the excess deaths in Scotland and how covid is a tiny part of this. Far bigger problems than the sniffles around.

Have you compared an excess deaths graph from the last tow years to a Covid deaths graph for the same period?  Agreed the is plenty of other deaths to go around, but when covid deaths are higher so are excess deaths

[Costanza]

Glad I don't work in public health.

Say what will happen with no restrictions and then when infections etc. are lower than the figure with no restrictions you're accused of inflating the original figures.

Starting to think we should just let it rip and then the amateur epidemiologists can either be proven right and the "clamouring for publicity" scientists can be put back in their box, or things go tits up and we agree that we should listen more to the scientists.

Obviously there could be collateral damage with the latter but hey ho.

[Malinga the Swinga]

Just heard them on radio. Despite the South African evidence that this is milder, our SAGE experts know better and this is now graver than last year.

Really. Last year we had no vaccine, no treatments and no clue.

This year, we have vaccine, we have treatment, we have more treatments on way and a milder strain.

How the **** is this more serious? No wonder a lot of people don't trust them. I'm triple vaccinated, wear my mask, follow the rules and it doesn't seem to make one ****ing iota of a difference.

A 2 week circuit breaker after Christmas, hmm, that sounds familiar. 

The scientists are in charge and they don't want to let go.

Edited December 18, 2021 by Malinga the Swinga

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 minutes ago, Costanza said:

Glad I don't work in public health.

Say what will happen with no restrictions and then when infections etc. are lower than the figure with no restrictions you're accused of inflating the original figures.

Starting to think we should just let it rip and then the amateur epidemiologists can either be proven right and the "clamouring for publicity" scientists can be put back in their box, or things go tits up and we agree that we should listen more to the scientists.

Obviously there could be collateral damage with the latter but hey ho.

They don't ever give ' a figure'. They give low number, almost zero and high, pick a number, and we always end up in between. It's virtually impossible to be wrong.

If they gave a figure, they would need to be accurate. It's man made mathematical software, it isn't some magic.

Doesn't matter, you believe them and hang onto their every word. I think they're receiving record amounts of grants and they are enjoying their new status.

Your opinion, my opinion, neither really matters in grand scheme of things.

 

[Mikey1874]

47 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

The wellbeing, fitness, and general mental health of the population takes a battering and its time that governments started dealing with the arseholes who flout the rules e.g. spot checks on buses and chuck them off with fixed penalty fines.

 

I've personally had enough of the brute force measures that affect everyone because some refuse to do the right thing.

 

The main issue by far is people not being vaccinated. By my reckoning mainly based on evidence from hospitals is this would be over if everyone was vaccinated. Because the main pressure on hospitals is from people very ill who are unvaccinated.

 

I think it is the case that it's better to encourage and for there to be choice.

 

But it remains the case around 6 million people in the UK are holding the rest to ransom. 

[Costanza]

Just now, Malinga the Swinga said:

They don't ever give ' a figure'. They give low number, almost zero and high, pick a number, and we always end up in between. It's virtually impossible to be wrong.

If they gave a figure, they would need to be accurate. It's man made mathematical software, it isn't some magic.

Doesn't matter, you believe them and hang onto their every word. I think they're receiving record amounts of grants and they are enjoying their new status.

Your opinion, my opinion, neither really matters in grand scheme of things.

 

I don't hang onto their every word but I also don't buy into strawman crap like they are enjoying the publicity and that's what is driving their advice.

In terms of Omicron,  the issue I think is less one of how bad the strain is but stuff like this.

Mass infection is going to cause huge problems even if it is a mild strain.

Currently there are 832 out 10951 staff off sick in the London Ambulance Service. Is this not going to be a serious problem if that increases rapidly?

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/ambulance-service-engulfed-staff-covid-b1978091.html

 

 

 

[Adam_the_legend]

18 minutes ago, Costanza said:

Glad I don't work in public health.

Say what will happen with no restrictions and then when infections etc. are lower than the figure with no restrictions you're accused of inflating the original figures.

Starting to think we should just let it rip and then the amateur epidemiologists can either be proven right and the "clamouring for publicity" scientists can be put back in their box, or things go tits up and we agree that we should listen more to the scientists.

Obviously there could be collateral damage with the latter but hey ho.

SAGE were dead against Englands “freedom day” and said it was dangerous and irresponsible but the results were no where near as bad as they had predicted. Better than their best case scenario in fact. Scientists are not infallible, they are human after all. 

[Victorian]

13 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Just heard them on radio. Despite the South African evidence that this is milder, our SAGE experts know better and this is now graver than last year.

Really. Last year we had no vaccine, no treatments and no clue.

This year, we have vaccine, we have treatment, we have more treatments on way and a milder strain.

How the **** is this more serious? No wonder a lot of people don't trust them. I'm triple vaccinated, wear my mask, follow the rules and it doesn't seem to make one ****ing iota of a difference.

A 2 week circuit breaker after Christmas, hmm, that sounds familiar. 

The scientists are in charge and they don't want to let go.

 

Oh come on.  It's been done to death.  How many more explanations are necessary?  If it does get bad it will be because of the numbers.  If the infection numbers go towards the forecasts,  it's a case of the much larger volume of cases x whatever serious illness rate there is = a volume of hospitalisation.

 

Increasingly there's a bit more chat towards the pathogenicity of this not being that different.  Not a milder strain.  The heavy lifting of keeping the clinical demand lower is being done by prior immunisation.

 

Viruses do not tend to become less virulent,  especially quickly.  You can research this in mountains of internet resources.

[Adam_the_legend]

19 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Just heard them on radio. Despite the South African evidence that this is milder, our SAGE experts know better and this is now graver than last year.

Really. Last year we had no vaccine, no treatments and no clue.

This year, we have vaccine, we have treatment, we have more treatments on way and a milder strain.

How the **** is this more serious? No wonder a lot of people don't trust them. I'm triple vaccinated, wear my mask, follow the rules and it doesn't seem to make one ****ing iota of a difference.

A 2 week circuit breaker after Christmas, hmm, that sounds familiar. 

The scientists are in charge and they don't want to let go.

People talking about a 2 week circuit breaker like it would only be 2 weeks. Some people have short memories eh. 

[Adam_the_legend]

12 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

The main issue by far is people not being vaccinated. By my reckoning mainly based on evidence from hospitals is this would be over if everyone was vaccinated. Because the main pressure on hospitals is from people very ill who are unvaccinated.

 

I think it is the case that it's better to encourage and for there to be choice.

 

But it remains the case around 6 million people in the UK are holding the rest to ransom. 

You really think this would be over if everyone was vaccinated? That’s certainly the message but it doesn’t make much sense. 96% of UK adults have antibodies, whether they got there by vax or natural infection is irrelevant, most of the population have protection and yet…

[Jambo-Jimbo]

One for our resident conspiracy nutjobs.

 

Anti-5G necklaces have been found to be radioactive, so they'll be easy to spot as they'll now glow in the dark from the radiation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-59703523

What's that old saying about a fool and their money........

Edited December 18, 2021 by Jambo-Jimbo

[Mikey1874]

5 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said:

You really think this would be over if everyone was vaccinated? That’s certainly the message but it doesn’t make much sense. 96% of UK adults have antibodies, whether they got there by vax or natural infection is irrelevant, most of the population have protection and yet…

 

Just that it's still the case that's the Government's Covid response is largely based on allowing the NHS to 'cope'. 

 

From what the hospitals are saying, the NHS would be comfortable without having to treat the unvaccinated. 

[The Mighty Thor]

Seems to be an awful lot of people getting themselves into a right ****ing state over er nothing.

 

Nothing has changed since the FMs announcement so why y'all pishing your frillies now?

[NANOJAMBO]

32 minutes ago, Costanza said:

I don't hang onto their every word but I also don't buy into strawman crap like they are enjoying the publicity and that's what is driving their advice.

In terms of Omicron,  the issue I think is less one of how bad the strain is but stuff like this.

Mass infection is going to cause huge problems even if it is a mild strain.

Currently there are 832 out 10951 staff off sick in the London Ambulance Service. Is this not going to be a serious problem if that increases rapidly?

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/ambulance-service-engulfed-staff-covid-b1978091.html

 

 

 

That's exactly what Chris Witty said : the NHS would suffer it's share of infections due to the high transmissibility of Omicron , implying it could be a major issue. 

[The Mighty Thor]

Just now, NANOJAMBO said:

That's exactly what Chris Witty said : the NHS would suffer it's share of infections due to the high transmissibility of Omicron , implying it could be a major issue. 

Aye but where's the deaths likesy!!!!

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Seems to be an awful lot of people getting themselves into a right ****ing state over er nothing.

 

Nothing has changed since the FMs announcement so why y'all pishing your frillies now?

 

People have misinterpreted the theories about milder symptoms and nashed straight off on a wild goose chase about the virus being milder.  The overwhelming past experience of science is that it is not very likely at all.  People will not confront the very straightforward concept of numbers and percentages and equations.

 

Prior immunisation is our defence against what is highly likely to be a largely unchanged virulence of virus.

[Costanza]

32 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said:

SAGE were dead against Englands “freedom day” and said it was dangerous and irresponsible but the results were no where near as bad as they had predicted. Better than their best case scenario in fact. Scientists are not infallible, they are human after all. 

That's a fair point about Freedom Day and it wasn't as bad as predicted. That and Neil Ferguson who seems like an Aldi Nostradamus.

However,  criticism of seemingly all scientists on the basis that they just want to remain in the spotlight seems ridiculous.

I was a bit sceptical of the original reaction to Omicron but with it's transmissibility, the potential impact on staff numbers and hospitalisations is concerning.

[Victorian]

Setting aside the nick of the hospitals and whatever disruption there's going to be to services and supply chain,  we should end up in a fairly good position and fairly quickly.  We're romping through another tranche of vaccination and a very large number of us will acquire specific immune responses to the dominant strain.  We'll be in a very different situation in about a month.

[The Mighty Thor]

7 minutes ago, Costanza said:

 

I was a bit sceptical of the original reaction to Omicron but with it's transmissibility, the potential impact on staff numbers and hospitalisations is concerning.

The bit that's not getting through for me is the impact on workplaces. 

Many are down fairly large numbers between infections and isolations.

It's already impacting the emergency services quite hard. 

[Mikey1874]

22 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

People have misinterpreted the theories about milder symptoms and nashed straight off on a wild goose chase about the virus being milder.  The overwhelming past experience of science is that it is not very likely at all.  People will not confront the very straightforward concept of numbers and percentages and equations.

 

Prior immunisation is our defence against what is highly likely to be a largely unchanged virulence of virus.

 

The latest from South Africa 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/17/south-africa-says-vaccines-and-natural-immunity-are-limiting-latest-covid-wave

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

10 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Setting aside the nick of the hospitals and whatever disruption there's going to be to services and supply chain,  we should end up in a fairly good position and fairly quickly.  We're romping through another tranche of vaccination and a very large number of us will acquire specific immune responses to the dominant strain.  We'll be in a very different situation in about a month.

 

hope so but Jan and Feb traditionally very difficult months anyway for respiratory disease so while appreciate your not saying things will fine or far from it I think we need to get feb out the way as it could be difficult until then for all sorts of reasons 

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

The latest from South Africa 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/17/south-africa-says-vaccines-and-natural-immunity-are-limiting-latest-covid-wave

 

There we have it.  Hopefully keen scholars of South African scientific opinion will continue their keen reliance on South African scientific opinion.

 

 

[Costanza]

13 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

The bit that's not getting through for me is the impact on workplaces. 

Many are down fairly large numbers between infections and isolations.

It's already impacting the emergency services quite hard. 

Yup, and whilst close contacts in the NHS can go back to work with a negative PCR, it's the infection rates that are going to hit that hard.

[Adam_the_legend]

3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

There we have it.  Hopefully keen scholars of South African scientific opinion will continue their keen reliance on South African scientific opinion.

 

 

Erm, did you read it? All the attributed quotes were positive news and consistent with what we have been hearing about omicron in SA. The bit about omicron being different in countries with older demographics was completely editorial, no quotes from experts or links to such. Growing evidence from SA that hospitalisations are less serious and leave quicker than previous waves. Nothing worthy of any panic from that article. 

[Victorian]

Just now, Adam_the_legend said:

Erm, did you read it? All the attributed quotes were positive news and consistent with what we have been hearing about omicron in SA. The bit about omicron being different in countries with older demographics was completely editorial, no quotes from experts or links to such. Growing evidence from SA that hospitalisations are less serious and leave quicker than previous waves. Nothing worthy of any panic from that article. 

 

Erm.. did you read my posts?

 

I said that immunisation is why the severity of omicron is being limited.  The article suggests the same.

 

 

[Gizmo]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

The main issue by far is people not being vaccinated. By my reckoning mainly based on evidence from hospitals is this would be over if everyone was vaccinated. Because the main pressure on hospitals is from people very ill who are unvaccinated.

 

I think it is the case that it's better to encourage and for there to be choice.

 

But it remains the case around 6 million people in the UK are holding the rest to ransom. 

I see the pro-disease are having another protest in London today. 🙄 
 

1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

One for our resident conspiracy nutjobs.

 

Anti-5G necklaces have been found to be radioactive, so they'll be easy to spot as they'll now glow in the dark from the radiation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-59703523

What's that old saying about a fool and their money........

It's incredible. Fear of non-ionising radiation warded off by pendants that actually emit ionising radiation.
 

12 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

The latest from South Africa 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/17/south-africa-says-vaccines-and-natural-immunity-are-limiting-latest-covid-wave

I meant that's where we want to get to - where the virus is walled in by high levels immunity in the community. That plus better treatments could see this wave not reach the worst case scenario levels. 

[Adam_the_legend]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

Erm.. did you read my posts?

 

I said that immunisation is why the severity of omicron is being limited.  The article suggests the same.

 

 

I responded to your post having a sly dig at people who think considering data from SA is appropriate. 
 

“There we have it.  Hopefully keen scholars of South African scientific opinion will continue their keen reliance on South African scientific opinion.”

[Mikey1874]

2 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

I see the pro-disease are having another protest in London today. 🙄 
 

It's incredible. Fear of non-ionising radiation warded off by pendants that actually emit ionising radiation.
 

I meant that's where we want to get to - where the virus is walled in by high levels immunity in the community. That plus better treatments could see this wave not reach the worst case scenario levels. 

 

Game changers are hopefully coming. I see there is a pill for the unvaccinated being used. 

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said:

I responded to your post having a sly dig at people who think considering data from SA is appropriate. 
 

“There we have it.  Hopefully keen scholars of South African scientific opinion will continue their keen reliance on South African scientific opinion.”

 

Away you go.  I suggested that people have been really keen to rely on what was coming out of S.A.  I suggested that,  if S.A. evidence is reliable,  that people continue to pay heed to that article,  which suggests that the clinical situation is due to immunisation.

 

You get it now?

Edited December 18, 2021 by Victorian

[Adam_the_legend]

3 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

I meant that's where we want to get to - where the virus is walled in by high levels immunity in the community. That plus better treatments could see this wave not reach the worst case scenario levels. 

Surely we are there? Much higher vax rate than SA and been maintaining a relatively high level of spread through the population for 6 months. Based on these factors the UK should be one of the best placed to deal with omicron. 

[Adam_the_legend]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

Away you go.  I suggested that people have been really keen to rely of what was coming out of S.A.  I suggested that,  if S.A. evidence is reliable,  that people continue to pay heed to that article,  which suggests that the clinical situation is due to immunisation.

 

You get it now?

Makes a mockery of the anti vax sentiment here though. 25% vax rate in SA and it’s due to population immunity? 

[redjambo]

6 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

It's incredible. Fear of non-ionising radiation warded off by pendants that actually emit ionising radiation.
 

 

Yes, but we only believe that radiation is harmful because that's what the controlling government and their scientists tell us. Have a look at the excess deaths caused by radiation graph if you don't believe me!

[Victorian]

Just now, Adam_the_legend said:

Makes a mockery of the anti vax sentiment here though. 25% vax rate in SA and it’s due to population immunity? 

 

Omicron does actually raise that point.  Good observation.  We've always bemoaned the amount of people who remain unvaccinated as an unnecessary hurdle to overcome.  Omicron,  should it achieve complete spread,  actually makes that a bit redundant.  At least temporarily.

[Adam_the_legend]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

Omicron does actually raise that point.  Good observation.  We've always bemoaned the amount of people who remain unvaccinated as an unnecessary hurdle to overcome.  Omicron,  should it achieve complete spread,  actually makes that a bit redundant.  At least temporarily.

I appreciate your acknowledgment, this thread can get a bit rabid at times but glad reasoned discussion is possible.  

[Gizmo]

7 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said:

Surely we are there? Much higher vax rate than SA and been maintaining a relatively high level of spread through the population for 6 months. Based on these factors the UK should be one of the best placed to deal with omicron. 

I hope so.
 

4 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Yes, but we only believe that radiation is harmful because that's what the controlling government and their scientists tell us. Have a look at the excess deaths caused by radiation graph if you don't believe me!

Well played, Sir. 

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Adam_the_legend said:

I appreciate your acknowledgment, this thread can get a bit rabid at times but glad reasoned discussion is possible.  

 

👍

[Nucky Thompson]

Hospitalisations in Scotland have now dropped below 500 today. 

494 with 34 in ICU

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

8 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Omicron does actually raise that point.  Good observation.  We've always bemoaned the amount of people who remain unvaccinated as an unnecessary hurdle to overcome.  Omicron,  should it achieve complete spread,  actually makes that a bit redundant.  At least temporarily.

 

that general point is in first year university course notes about ‘virus life cycles etc’ - pretty much the main reason behind the protect the vulnerable strategy (which we know from 100s of pages on here lots of experts and ‘experts’ don’t agree with) but that’s a big part of the theory

 

 

 

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

that general point is in first year university course notes about ‘virus life cycles etc’ - pretty much the main reason behind the protect the vulnerable strategy (which we know from 100s of pages on here lots of experts and ‘experts’ don’t agree with) but that’s a big part of the theory

 

 

 

 

Yep.  God only knows what the clinical situations will be throughout the world but it appears,  at least partly,  advantageous that a variant should sweep around the world in reasonable time.  

 

The recent theory about it having a slower rate of replication in a host somewhat concerned me.  Variants seem to be arising out of long lived infectiousness of immunosuppressed hosts.  A slower burning or more persistent infection seems to me to widen the scope of this.  

 

Still,  science will catch up and hopefully produce polyvalent vaccines to mitigate against more hazardous variants.

[NANOJAMBO]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Aye but where's the deaths likesy!!!!

Yeah, it's about the deaths. 

Always the death toll. 

Or lack of.

Wearying. 

[manaliveits105]

23 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Hospitalisations in Scotland have now dropped below 500 today. 

494 with 34 in ICU

stop with the positivity this thread is for jkb experts to err on the doom side and support the nictatorship's diktat at all costs .