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1 hour ago, scott herbertson said:

 

 

I've stopped reading it so much when people stopped talking about the stats, which is the bit I find interesting and informative. They don't worry me at all, but I am interested in the progress of the pandemic and governments' differing approaches to dealing with it. I say this as someone who has been involved in emergency planning in the past. it's a subject which interests me, hence i like to read about it and discuss it and the stats are important factual evidence i that respect

 

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1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

You make a great point. My only comment would be Spanish Mandatory and Scottish Mandatory (voluntary if you can be arsed, haven't got a wee daisy lanyard)

 

I have no issue wearing a mask where required. It's hardly onerous at the moment.


Definitely agree regarding Scottish mandatory. 😂

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Just a quick question re masks as I’m in the pub with a friend who doesn’t follow the stats and he is wondering is there actually any difference really in the stats between England and Scotland despite the mask regulations ? 

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The Mighty Thor
1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yes, I agree. Not sure where Thor was seeing the difference tbh. Same situation in Spain as here, from my perspective.  Lifting masks up when speaking to people and some folk just not bothering wearing them at all.

There is a greater vaccine uptake in Spain and less hesitancy. Probably people,  generally, live healthier lifestyles and take more individual responsibility for their outcomes. 

Case rates are very low there and I doubt that has anything whatsoever to do with mask wearing. 

Compliance of mask wearing in Spain was miles ahead of Scotland. People just did it. no debate, no discussion. 

 

I'm quite sure the Spanish government see a benefit of mask wearing and the impacts it has on their case rates. 

 

I'm not sure where you're going with the individual responsibility point TBH. Does Spain have more critical thinkers?

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Footballfirst
1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

There is a greater vaccine uptake in Spain and less hesitancy. Probably people,  generally, live healthier lifestyles and take more individual responsibility for their outcomes. 

Case rates are very low there and I doubt that has anything whatsoever to do with mask wearing. 

I suspect that the vaccine uptake in Spain is what is keeping the case numbers down rather than mask wearing.

 

Spain has vaccinated 80%/79% of its total population with 1st/2nd doses.

The UK has vaccinated 73.5%/67.5%.

 

Until the UK vaccinates a higher proportion of teenagers, then I think the underlying level of virus in the community will remain comparatively high.

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Enzo Chiefo
5 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Compliance of mask wearing in Spain was miles ahead of Scotland. People just did it. no debate, no discussion. 

 

I'm quite sure the Spanish government see a benefit of mask wearing and the impacts it has on their case rates. 

 

I'm not sure where you're going with the individual responsibility point TBH. Does Spain have more critical thinkers?

They have less pie eaters. Not sure about critical thinkers. 

I wasn't monitoring mask wearing but if "the people just did it, no debate, no discussion" then that is indeed a chilling indication of a govt in full control and certainly points to a lack of critical thinkers.

If only these smelly feckers that are blocking our roads would just move their erses "no debate, no discussion ".

 

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Enzo Chiefo
2 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I suspect that the vaccine uptake in Spain is what is keeping the case numbers down rather than mask wearing.

 

Spain has vaccinated 80%/79% of its total population with 1st/2nd doses.

The UK has vaccinated 73.5%/67.5%.

 

Until the UK vaccinates a higher proportion of teenagers, then I think the underlying level of virus in the community will remain comparatively high.

Yes, I agree FF.

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4 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I suspect that the vaccine uptake in Spain is what is keeping the case numbers down rather than mask wearing.

 

Spain has vaccinated 80%/79% of its total population with 1st/2nd doses.

The UK has vaccinated 73.5%/67.5%.

 

Until the UK vaccinates a higher proportion of teenagers, then I think the underlying level of virus in the community will remain comparatively high.


This. The U.K. vaccination policy is a little different to most countries in relation to teenagers.

 

Im in Portugal and was speaking to one of the Uber drivers. The Portuguese which has one of the highest vaccination in the world, apparently vaccinated 80% of teenagers over a two week period in the summer holidays. Interestingly, they also providing additional education to make up for lost education, something I think we probably should have considered.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Nucky Thompson said:

People don't have to insist that they have anything wrong with them as they don't have to prove anything to shopkeepers or whoever.

 

As for your comment about being able to tell 'genuine' exempt by looking at them.  Aye, because all disabilities are visible :vrface:

 

Oh there is a type. Ask anyone who works in retail.

We ask if they have a face covering, never ask to put a mask on or wear the ****ing thing rather than having it hanging under their nose or chin, never ask for proof of anything. If they say exempt or whatever we don’t say anything.  We stay polite and professional.

 

Amazing the amount of groups of young healthy looking people that have asthma though.
Never mind covid, there is an asthma epidemic among shifty looking neds.

 

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Jambo-Jimbo
2 hours ago, westbow said:

 

You got a problem with shop assistants 😂. Jesus. The same people who worked through the lockdowns when most were quaking under their duvets. I employ five shop assistants that have had to put up with some right wasters  between the lockdowns, and after, that insist they have “the asthma” or had a”full heart attack” who are generally of a type that I’d follow for being suspiciously shoplifteresque. You can tell them from the genuinely exempt a mile off. I’m presuming you work in a profession which looks down on hard working people- something embittering.

 

I'm curious as to what a "full heart attack" is?

 

I suppose it's twice as bad as "half a heart attack" :laugh:

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1 hour ago, Taffin said:

 

Spot on.

 

I tried to let that one go, but...

 

On the one hand accusing people of looking down on others, whilst also describing people as looking "shoplifteresque". 

 

Staggering.

😂 Owned retail businesses for 25 years and I know a dodgy character when I see one. 

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Just now, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

I'm curious as to what a "full heart attack" is?

 

I suppose it's twice as bad as "half a heart attack" :laugh:

You and me both. Didn’t even ask for their maladies they just proffer up some crackers. 

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I'm not opposed to people judging others on appearance but it feels hypocritical to then tell others not to judge on 'class'.

 

Out of interest what does a dodgy character look like?

 

Edit: made a hash of quoting @westbow

Edited by Taffin
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25 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

They have less pie eaters. Not sure about critical thinkers. 

I wasn't monitoring mask wearing but if "the people just did it, no debate, no discussion" then that is indeed a chilling indication of a govt in full control and certainly points to a lack of critical thinkers.

If only these smelly feckers that are blocking our roads would just move their erses "no debate, no discussion ".

 

It’s really that simple , too

many pie eaters ! Time and again saw it on news item regarding covid . Bigger people . 

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2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

I'm not opposed to people judging others on appearance but it feels hypocritical to then tell others not to judge on 'class'.

 

Out of interest what does a dodgy character look like?

 

Edit: made a hash of quoting @westbow

He’s rather judgmental 

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scott herbertson
1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

Just a quick question re masks as I’m in the pub with a friend who doesn’t follow the stats and he is wondering is there actually any difference really in the stats between England and Scotland despite the mask regulations ? 

 

 

There are differences but it is hard to ascribe them specifically to one action as Governments are making not just one decision.

 

For example more people are vaccinated in Scotland than in England, England currently has more cases, scotland currently has more deaths. Scotland is vaccinating 12-15 year olds much quicker than England as it is doing it on a voluntary basis at centres whereas England is doing it though schools (and I think consent is taking longer/ not happening more). Masks are mandatory on public transport and largely complied with in my experience. In England not legally obliged (though transport companies messaging is you must wear one unless exempt) but virtually no one wearing them on trains when I went to Manchester last week.

 

You can extrapolate from the key decisions and changes (eg when the schools went back in each country, the opening up differences) that what we are seeing is Scotland having gone through a wave of higher cases when schools opened and now on a long slow downward curve. England on the other hand has rising cases so they are in an earlier stage. If masks have an impact you could look at how high cases, deaths rise in England compared to scotland. It might be over simplistic though.


Excess deaths is another measure which can be looked at.

 

To really judge you would have to look at the longer term and if you do that Scotland seems to have had fewer deaths per capita, though recently that's not been the case (our earlier surge after schools re-opened)

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16 minutes ago, Taffin said:

I'm not opposed to people judging others on appearance but it feels hypocritical to then tell others not to judge on 'class'.

 

Out of interest what does a dodgy character look like?

 

Edit: made a hash of quoting @westbow

Class? Bugger all to do with it.
I’m sure you would know a dodgy character when you saw one. I’ve had to deal with plenty, believe me. 

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Just now, westbow said:

I’m kind of hurt I don’t get a gif.

Oh ok then 😂😂 

9CB7660C-D01D-458B-966D-5149A330D14B.gif

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6 minutes ago, scott herbertson said:

 

 

There are differences but it is hard to ascribe them specifically to one action as Governments are making not just one decision.

 

For example more people are vaccinated in Scotland than in England, England currently has more cases, scotland currently has more deaths. Scotland is vaccinating 12-15 year olds much quicker than England as it is doing it on a voluntary basis at centres whereas England is doing it though schools (and I think consent is taking longer/ not happening more). Masks are mandatory on public transport and largely complied with in my experience. In England not legally obliged (though transport companies messaging is you must wear one unless exempt) but virtually no one wearing them on trains when I went to Manchester last week.

 

You can extrapolate from the key decisions and changes (eg when the schools went back in each country, the opening up differences) that what we are seeing is Scotland having gone through a wave of higher cases when schools opened and now on a long slow downward curve. England on the other hand has rising cases so they are in an earlier stage. If masks have an impact you could look at how high cases, deaths rise in England compared to scotland. It might be over simplistic though.


Excess deaths is another measure which can be looked at.

 

To really judge you would have to look at the longer term and if you do that Scotland seems to have had fewer deaths per capita, though recently that's not been the case (our earlier surge after schools re-opened)

I’ll read it later I’m half pissed 👀

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1 minute ago, westbow said:

😁 - actually made my day. image.jpeg.3dbec447d5289082b8ca65785bf0be27.jpeg

Oh well I’m glad I’ve made someone’s day ! It’s made my day 😂

7A7F69E1-F184-4B14-90AF-663DDDD1902E.gif

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22 minutes ago, westbow said:

Class? Bugger all to do with it.
I’m sure you would know a dodgy character when you saw one. I’ve had to deal with plenty, believe me. 

 

I agree class has nothing to do with it, but you accused another poster of judging people based on their class...whilst saying you can spot a thief based on their appearance alone.

 

All the dodgy characters that I've met have been of varying appearances. I wasn't aware they had a uniform or inherent physical appearance.

 

Anyway, back on topic. 

 

Covid, doesn't really enter my thoughts daily anymore which is surely a sign of things being on the up 👍

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22 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I agree class has nothing to do with it, but you accused another poster of judging people based on their class...whilst saying you can spot a thief based on their appearance alone.

 

All the dodgy characters that I've met have been of varying appearances. I wasn't aware they had a uniform or inherent physical appearance.

 

Anyway, back on topic. 

 

Covid, doesn't really enter my thoughts daily anymore which is surely a sign of things being on the up 👍

Yeah, well presumably you don’t work in the same industry as me. And I never mentioned class.

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Victorian
32 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Covid, doesn't really enter my thoughts daily anymore which is surely a sign of things being on the up 👍

 

Yeah good observation.  I think the vast majority of people will be in a very different mindset now compared to the worse times.  But along a spectrum.  It could never be the case that everyone 'moves on' in the same way and at the same pace.  I don't see any conceivable way of determining who is so-called moving on better than someone else.  

 

Again along a spectrum,  this whole thing has been a trauma on people.  Some people might not even realise they've been affected.  Or choose not to admit it.  Everyone will recover in good time and I believe they'll recover better when comfortable to do so at their own pace.

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25 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Yeah good observation.  I think the vast majority of people will be in a very different mindset now compared to the worse times.  But along a spectrum.  It could never be the case that everyone 'moves on' in the same way and at the same pace.  I don't see any conceivable way of determining who is so-called moving on better than someone else.  

 

Again along a spectrum,  this whole thing has been a trauma on people.  Some people might not even realise they've been affected.  Or choose not to admit it.  Everyone will recover in good time and I believe they'll recover better when comfortable to do so at their own pace.

👍👍

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26 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Yeah good observation.  I think the vast majority of people will be in a very different mindset now compared to the worse times.  But along a spectrum.  It could never be the case that everyone 'moves on' in the same way and at the same pace.  I don't see any conceivable way of determining who is so-called moving on better than someone else.  

 

Again along a spectrum,  this whole thing has been a trauma on people.  Some people might not even realise they've been affected.  Or choose not to admit it.  Everyone will recover in good time and I believe they'll recover better when comfortable to do so at their own pace.

 

Good post. There's definitely an element of that part in bold for me...not so much now but when I came off furlough I really threw myself into work as I was raring to go and didn't want to be stopped. I was travelling all around the country, either eating sandwiches in hotel rooms where everything else was closed or leaving my house at 4am to drive places and getting back at 7pm and doing that 5 days in a row.

 

I didn't want to be stopped by covid but in hindsight I took a real battering from it and it affected me for sure over Christmas and into the new year. Took a while to recognise that though and I've only really been cognisant of the impact it had the last couple of months. 

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Enzo Chiefo
1 hour ago, westbow said:

Yeah, well presumably you don’t work in the same industry as me. And I never mentioned class.

You're not a steward at Easter Road are you, westbow??😂

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JimmyCant
1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

Day 2 Lateral flow tests to replace PCR tests from 24 October in England.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58917231

 

Scotland has committed to following suit, so anyone returning from 24 October can book a cheaper test.

On the subject of 2 days testing just as an aside. We returned from Mallorca middle of September. Purchased 2 day tests before departure at £138. Got home, no test packages had arrived. Arrived on day 3 after return. No address labels with either of them so didn’t know where to send them. Made a call, pressed option 2 then 3, then 1 then 2 again. Got told they were busy and to call back. Didn’t bother. Binned the tests. No contact or reminders or phone calls received since, which led me to believe the whole thing was a money making scam which contributed absolutely zero to the well being of the public at large.

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13 hours ago, scott herbertson said:

 

 

There are differences but it is hard to ascribe them specifically to one action as Governments are making not just one decision.

 

For example more people are vaccinated in Scotland than in England, England currently has more cases, scotland currently has more deaths. Scotland is vaccinating 12-15 year olds much quicker than England as it is doing it on a voluntary basis at centres whereas England is doing it though schools (and I think consent is taking longer/ not happening more). Masks are mandatory on public transport and largely complied with in my experience. In England not legally obliged (though transport companies messaging is you must wear one unless exempt) but virtually no one wearing them on trains when I went to Manchester last week.

 

You can extrapolate from the key decisions and changes (eg when the schools went back in each country, the opening up differences) that what we are seeing is Scotland having gone through a wave of higher cases when schools opened and now on a long slow downward curve. England on the other hand has rising cases so they are in an earlier stage. If masks have an impact you could look at how high cases, deaths rise in England compared to scotland. It might be over simplistic though.


Excess deaths is another measure which can be looked at.

 

To really judge you would have to look at the longer term and if you do that Scotland seems to have had fewer deaths per capita, though recently that's not been the case (our earlier surge after schools re-opened)

👍👍

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8 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Day 2 Lateral flow tests to replace PCR tests from 24 October in England.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58917231

 

Scotland has committed to following suit, so anyone returning from 24 October can book a cheaper test.


If you haven’t already purchased pcr tests, like we have for our return on the 25th.  🙄😂

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Japan Jambo
14 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

I suspect that the vaccine uptake in Spain is what is keeping the case numbers down rather than mask wearing.

 

Spain has vaccinated 80%/79% of its total population with 1st/2nd doses.

The UK has vaccinated 73.5%/67.5%.

 

Until the UK vaccinates a higher proportion of teenagers, then I think the underlying level of virus in the community will remain comparatively high.

 

Totally, it's interesting how the scientists here struck a balance in favour of individual risk as opposed to society as a whole. We also saw this approach in the context of throwing AZ under the bus in picking Pfizer for the under 40's pre delta. Both of which were pretty marginal calls in their own right and really didn't stack up at the societal level which I think is why the government eventually grew a pair and reversed the 12-15 approach.

 

The consequences of this divergence has knock on implication for travel/tourism as the European default position seems to be an assumption that over 12's will be vaccinated.

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13 hours ago, scott herbertson said:

 

 

There are differences but it is hard to ascribe them specifically to one action as Governments are making not just one decision.

 

For example more people are vaccinated in Scotland than in England, England currently has more cases, scotland currently has more deaths. Scotland is vaccinating 12-15 year olds much quicker than England as it is doing it on a voluntary basis at centres whereas England is doing it though schools (and I think consent is taking longer/ not happening more). Masks are mandatory on public transport and largely complied with in my experience. In England not legally obliged (though transport companies messaging is you must wear one unless exempt) but virtually no one wearing them on trains when I went to Manchester last week.

 

You can extrapolate from the key decisions and changes (eg when the schools went back in each country, the opening up differences) that what we are seeing is Scotland having gone through a wave of higher cases when schools opened and now on a long slow downward curve. England on the other hand has rising cases so they are in an earlier stage. If masks have an impact you could look at how high cases, deaths rise in England compared to scotland. It might be over simplistic though.


Excess deaths is another measure which can be looked at.

 

To really judge you would have to look at the longer term and if you do that Scotland seems to have had fewer deaths per capita, though recently that's not been the case (our earlier surge after schools re-opened)

👍👍

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Enzo Chiefo
3 hours ago, Dazo said:


If you haven’t already purchased pcr tests, like we have for our return on the 25th.  🙄😂

Apologies for not replying a couple of weeks ago, Dazo but Randox tests dropped off at 9.30am and results emailed the next day pm. Enjoy your holiday!

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jonnothejambo

Watched Question Time last night.

 

Still no apology, this time from Penny Mordaunt, whoever she is.

 

Sorry about the deaths, but not for the government responsibility. 

 

I wonder if the the tit on holiday will attempt to delay the public enquiry....

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Victorian

As many as 43,000 false negative PCR test results being linked to the wonky test lab in Wolverhampton.  I suppose there might be some consequence of it feeding into the current case rates,  etc.  Who knows?

 

World leading.

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The Mighty Thor
14 minutes ago, Victorian said:

As many as 43,000 false negative PCR test results being linked to the wonky test lab in Wolverhampton.  I suppose there might be some consequence of it feeding into the current case rates,  etc.  Who knows?

 

World leading.

Eton college into a form of lockdown with 50 students confined to their boarding houses and compulsory mask wearing and LTF tests daily.

 

I guess you can't afford the possibility of future criminal Tory MP's getting sick.

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Japan Jambo
8 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Eton college into a form of lockdown with 50 students confined to their boarding houses and compulsory mask wearing and LTF tests daily.

 

I guess you can't afford the possibility of future criminal Tory MP's getting sick.

 

I may be off but I'm guessing you didn't go there...

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Victorian
36 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Eton college into a form of lockdown with 50 students confined to their boarding houses and compulsory mask wearing and LTF tests daily.

 

I guess you can't afford the possibility of future criminal Tory MP's getting sick.

 

Remote learning for 2 days.  Parents apparently "furious" and "appalled".

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Remote learning for 2 days.  Parents apparently "furious" and "appalled".

 

 

Some of the mother's will bring that up with Boris during their post coital cigarette

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2 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

Some of the mother's will bring that up with Boris during their post coital cigarette

Would make a change from vomit.

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Victorian
2 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

Some of the mother's will bring that up with Boris during their post coital cigarette

 

:D

 

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4 minutes ago, Barack said:

Would make a change from vomit.

They need to get rid of the taste somehow

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Nucky Thompson
1 hour ago, Victorian said:

As many as 43,000 false negative PCR test results being linked to the wonky test lab in Wolverhampton.  I suppose there might be some consequence of it feeding into the current case rates,  etc.  Who knows?

 

World leading.

Who's to blame Vic?

There doesn't seem to be any faults in the PCR test kits

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1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Eton college into a form of lockdown with 50 students confined to their boarding houses and compulsory mask wearing and LTF tests daily.

 

I guess you can't afford the possibility of future criminal Tory MP's getting sick.

Perhaps this lockdown could be extended by 70 or 80 years.

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Victorian
5 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Who's to blame Vic?

There doesn't seem to be any faults in the PCR test kits

 

The lab by the looks of it per what's reported.  

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The Mighty Thor
1 hour ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

I may be off but I'm guessing you didn't go there...

I've no idea how you managed to come to that conclusion 😟

 

Was it the lack of intelligence or the chippy attitude?

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6 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

Was it the lack of intelligence or the chippy attitude?

 

Wait, I thought you didn't go to Eton

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