Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

My point was not criticising those who cannot take the vaccine more the helmets that will whine on about how its unfair that they are having their freedumbs removed because they choose not to get vaccinated. 

I fully expect this to end up in the courts as said helmets don't like it up 'em

Well as the Manic street preachers sang “ If you tolerate this your children will be next “ 

[Footballfirst]

10 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Is it high? What was the positivity rate in those countries when doing a compara6 number of tests?

 

What is considered high, and why?

 

All genuine questions I don't know the answers to. I'd have assumed a virus that for many doesn't translate into any symptoms, as soon as you start looking harder for it you'll find more of it and at a higher positivity rate.

WHO suggests that a test positivity rate in excess of 5% indicates that the virus is out of control.  Scotland has been around 10% for a few weeks now.  I don't know the rates in other countries. 

 

Edit: I found the figure for the Netherlands - Here is what they reported in their most recent weekly report (13 July).

The percentage of positive tests in the test lanes of the Municipal Public Health Services (GGDs) increased to 13,4%, from 4,5% the week before.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Footballfirst

[Taffin]

Just now, Footballfirst said:

WHO suggests that a test positivity rate in excess of 5% indicates that the virus is out of control.  Scotland has been around 10% for a few weeks now.  I don't know the rates in other countries. 

 

Cheers.

Whilst indicating it's out of control, it doesn't sound particularly high but without knowing how it compares to others testing a similar amount it's difficult to tell I guess. 

[cannonfoda]

31 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

So with all this testing, how do you explain such a high test positivity rate as we have experienced in recent weeks.

 

Don't be sensible.

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, scott herbertson said:

 

 

Don't most clubs already require ID in proof of age? Can't see much difference personally

And that is rigorously enforced? I got my NHS certificate proving I have been double vaccinated this week. There will already be convincing forgeries circulating.

[scott herbertson]

4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

And that is rigorously enforced?

 

In my experience yes (certainly in Kingston where I worked - their license was at stake and they were monitored by the police, the council, their own Pubwatch scheme and for the Purple Flag award)

 

 

[Francis Albert]

1 minute ago, scott herbertson said:

 

In my experience yes (certainly in Kingston where I worked - their license was at stake and they were monitored by the police, the council, their own Pubwatch scheme and for the Purple Flag award)

 

 

I don't and never have done clubs so I bow to your greater knowledge. The age restriction means there is a clue on sight as to those who might be suspect and I guess the most obvious ID is a photo id such as a driving licence. What will be the proof for this?

Under age drinking in pubs is not uncommon despite the risk of loss of licence.

[scott herbertson]

15 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I don't and never have done clubs so I bow to your greater knowledge. The age restriction means there is a clue on sight as to those who might be suspect and I guess the most obvious ID is a photo id such as a driving licence. What will be the proof for this?

Under age drinking in pubs is not uncommon despite the risk of loss of licence.

 

 

I used to lead on the Purple Flag (night time economy) applications so have toured the night clubs at midnight to 4am - not so much fun when you are in a suit and sober and 55-60 (as I was at the time) . The night clubs were really rigourous about entry checks - under 25s are used to carrying Valid driving licenses and passports (yes they do take them in) student cards or other forms of id

[DETTY29]

Vallance corrects what he meant to say.

 

[Francis Albert]

7 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Vallance corrects what he meant to say.

 

A significant difference!

[Unknown user]

2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

And that is rigorously enforced? I got my NHS certificate proving I have been double vaccinated this week. There will already be convincing forgeries circulating.

 

Absolutely, clubs can lose their licenses very easily. I'm an SIA licensed bouncer ("door supervisor" officially), police or officials can visit at any time and any under agers or weapons lead to big fines and closure. Entry policy is very much rigourously enforced by any establishment that wants to stay open.

[JudyJudyJudy]

30 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

A significant difference!

How odd of all days to make such a significant “error “ ? The issue is most tv viewers aren’t on Twitter so might not be able to access this info . Hhhmmmmm 

[Enzo Chiefo]

3 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

How odd of all days to make such a significant “error “ ? The issue is most tv viewers aren’t on Twitter so might not be able to access this info . Hhhmmmmm 

Good to see you using your critical scepticism faculties, James. 😂 It is quite a significant error.👍

[Francis Albert]

12 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Absolutely, clubs can lose their licenses very easily. I'm an SIA licensed bouncer ("door supervisor" officially), police or officials can visit at any time and any under agers or weapons lead to big fines and closure. Entry policy is very much rigourously enforced by any establishment that wants to stay open.

Again I bow to your greater knowledge of clubs. I have to say that in  my more familiar environment of pubs if I were lucky enough to be under 18 I think I could easily get a drink. Let's see if distinguishing between vaccinated and non vaccinated is easier.

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Good to see you using your critical scepticism faculties, James. 😂 It is quite a significant error.👍

Thanks 😂 yes very significant “Error “ which he had numerous times to notice at the briefing today 

[DETTY29]

Just now, jonesy said:

Without wishing to enter the murky world of Twitter to find out, izzat folk who are completely unvaxxed or just with one dose? 

TBD.

[Francis Albert]

1 minute ago, jonesy said:

Without wishing to enter the murky world of Twitter to find out, izzat folk who are completely unvaxxed or just with one dose? 

Unvaccinated surely means unvaccinated. 

[Don Dan]

1 hour ago, DETTY29 said:

Vallance corrects what he meant to say.

 

Just about to post that correction. I thought at the time it was wrong. 

[Don Dan]

7 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Without wishing to enter the murky world of Twitter to find out, izzat folk who are completely unvaxxed or just with one dose? 

https://apple.news/AYIE7VlRHRQim6Ufno0Gmbg

[JudyJudyJudy]

Journalist on Newsnight saying that the nightclub issue is deliberate attempt to blackmail / force / coercion young people into getting the jab . If enough do by September then it won’t go ahead . What a way to “govern “ maybe just have different coloured triangles on us ? It’s worked before 

[2205ian]

I was reading the the cross border train companies are introducing "musical chairs" for journeys north after reaching Carlisle, & I presume Berwick, to comply with the differing social distancing rules!

 

It gets more complex as the days goes by with relaxing of restrictions, as opposed to being easier to understand.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Bagsie maroon.

😂 

[Back to 2005]

21 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Journalist on Newsnight saying that the nightclub issue is deliberate attempt to blackmail / force / coercion young people into getting the jab . If enough do by September then it won’t go ahead . What a way to “govern “ maybe just have different coloured triangles on us ? It’s worked before 

Its an absolute disgrace.  Coercion is immoral.

What is going on? It staggers me that people find this acceptable. Just where does it end? Does anyone believe this is about health anymore? 

Hopefully this is Johnsons poll tax moment.

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

Its an absolute disgrace.  Coercion is immoral.

What is going on? It staggers me that people find this acceptable. Just where does it end? Does anyone believe this is about health anymore? 

Hopefully this is Johnsons poll tax moment.

Completely agree . Judging by the anger about it in various quarters , it may well be his poll tax moment and shame on those meekly accepting it. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

6 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

Its an absolute disgrace.  Coercion is immoral.

What is going on? It staggers me that people find this acceptable. Just where does it end? Does anyone believe this is about health anymore? 

Hopefully this is Johnsons poll tax moment.

How is it "coercion"? It is like smoking. You can still smoke but the places where you can are restricted. Same here.

[Gizmo]

5 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

What about the type of people who have nothing wrong with them who spent a whole lot of energy looking for an exemption to measures such as mask wearing? 

I'll wager there's a whole lot more of them than those who cannot medically take the vaccine. 

Self-signing landyard wearers like "anxious" Lawrence Fox yet who can be seen all over his social media wearing crash helmets or buffs, quite the thing. It's amazing the lengths some grifters will go to because their being mildly inconvenienced is too high a price to pay to potentially protect others. I'm pretty sure some of them would stop wearing seat-belts if it transpired it helped someone else.
 

5 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

 

 

5 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

So with all this testing, how do you explain such a high test positivity rate as we have experienced in recent weeks.

 

I suspect minds such as the forum dafties actually believe if you perform zero tests you have zero covid. That dirtbag tory bitch, however, has just enough intellect to know better. The fact she calls it 'number of cases' rather than positivity rate gives it away.

I honestly thought we'd consigned this to the bin around the time Trump was claiming it whilst also crowing about passing a senility test.  

Edited July 19, 2021 by Gizmo
not picked up by the swear filter

[Back to 2005]

16 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

How is it "coercion"? It is like smoking. You can still smoke but the places where you can are restricted. Same here.

Seriously?! If this goes ahead youngsters are unable to go clubbing without taking a vaccine. In all likelihood you will be unable to go to football a restaurant or to the pub without a passport

So explain to me how that is not coercion? 

[jack D and coke]

Seen the GB news clip of Farage trying to speak to a reporter and some lunatic woman is screaming behind him swearing and another guy calling them paedo protectors…

The internet has ruined people’s heads. So far down rabbit holes they’ll never come back out. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

2 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

Seriously?! If this goes ahead youngsters are unable to go clubbing without taking a vaccine. In all likelihood you will be unable to go to football a restaurant or to the pub without a passport

So explain to me how that is not coercion? 

Given the amount of shit clubbers put in their bodies why should they worry about a vaccine? The point here is that venues have a duty of care to their patrons. If they expose them to risk from people passing on disease they could be held liable. Now, it might be that enough people eventually get vaccinated to give anti-vaxxers a free ride and cover for their stupidity but until then they should have the right to refuse admission. Look already at what's happening with overseas travel. When Auscatraz eventually opens up I will guarantee that you either prove your vaccination status or you'll be sent to hotel quarantine to Katie Hopkins' old room for 14 days.

[JudyJudyJudy]

14 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

Self-signing landyard wearers like "anxious" Lawrence Fox yet who can be seen all over his social media wearing crash helmets or buffs, quite the thing. It's amazing the lengths some grifters will go to because their being mildly inconvenienced is too high a price to pay to potentially protect others. I'm pretty sure some of them would stop wearing seat-belts if it transpired it helped someone else.
 

 

I suspect minds such as the forum dafties actually believe if you perform zero tests you have zero covid. That dirtbag tory bitch, however, has just enough intellect to know better. The fact she calls it 'number of cases' rather than positivity rate gives it away.

I honestly thought we'd consigned this to the bin around the time Trump was claiming it whilst also crowing about passing a senility test.  

What a potty mouth you have. And the comment  “ dirty Tory bitch “ is sexist and misogynist  too. Not really your best posting tut tut 

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

Seriously?! If this goes ahead youngsters are unable to go clubbing without taking a vaccine. In all likelihood you will be unable to go to football a restaurant or to the pub without a passport

So explain to me how that is not coercion? 

Yes he ( the poster responding to you ) clearly hasn’t thought this through , it won’t just be nightclubs . That’s just the start . Mark my words . BJ was shy on to reply if pubs may ask for them too . He’s at it and he’s getting away with it be the happy clapping risk adverse lockdown zealots 

[Gizmo]

4 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Come on now. I got a warning and a post deleted for using the last word in the above quote about Nicola Sturgeon, and expect you to get the same Gizzie.  

 

Let's keep it civil and not be openly derogatory towards the lassies, no matter how many times they have kept their legs firmly clamped in your presence.  

I wouldn't touch Brewster with yours, mate and I already edited the post to not contravene the swear filter. 

As someone who has been hired as a swordsman, I believe my flair has always impressed the ladies, btw.  

Edited July 19, 2021 by Gizmo

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Given the amount of shit clubbers put in their bodies why should they worry about a vaccine? The point here is that venues have a duty of care to their patrons. If they expose them to risk from people passing on disease they could be held liable. Now, it might be that enough people eventually get vaccinated to give anti-vaxxers a free ride and cover for their stupidity but until then they should have the right to refuse admission. Look already at what's happening with overseas travel. When Auscatraz eventually opens up I will guarantee that you either prove your vaccination status or you'll be sent to hotel quarantine to Katie Hopkins' old room for 14 days.

They have a “ duty of care “ to their patrons ??! Then happily serve them a substance which is highly addictive and ruins lives and is one of the root causes of Saturday night violence in town and domestic violence in homes ? Good one 

[Back to 2005]

1 minute ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Given the amount of shit clubbers put in their bodies why should they worry about a vaccine? The point here is that venues have a duty of care to their patrons. If they expose them to risk from people passing on disease they could be held liable. Now, it might be that enough people eventually get vaccinated to give anti-vaxxers a free ride and cover for their stupidity but until then they should have the right to refuse admission. Look already at what's happening with overseas travel. When Auscatraz eventually opens up I will guarantee that you either prove your vaccination status or you'll be sent to hotel quarantine to Katie Hopkins' old room for 14 days.

The flaw is of course being vaccinated does not stop you getting or passing on covid.

Moat people who have refused the jab are not anti vaxx. They have the intelligence to do their own risk assessment on the risk of a trial period vaccination against the risk of covid.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, jonesy said:

Come on now. I got a warning and a post deleted for using the last word in the above quote about Nicola Sturgeon, and expect you to get the same Gizzie.  

 

Let's keep it civil and not be openly derogatory towards the lassies, no matter how many times they have kept their legs firmly clamped in your presence.  

It’s disgusting actually . 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, Back to 2005 said:

The flaw is of course being vaccinated does not stop you getting or passing on covid.

Moat people who have refused the jab are not anti vaxx. They have the intelligence to do their own risk assessment on the risk of a trial period vaccination against the risk of covid.

 

Correct but it does stop the vast majority of severe illness and death which is what it is designed to do. And if the majority of the population was vaccinated then herd immunity would turn it into any other virus.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

3 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

They have a “ duty of care “ to their patrons ??! Then happily serve them a substance which is highly addictive and ruins lives and is one of the root causes of Saturday night violence in town and domestic violence in homes ? Good one 

I was talking in general about the leisure and hospitality industries and not clubs since our Portuguese enthusiast brought other venues up.

 

Just to clarify, if a venue wants to let in anyone then that is also fine with me but I personally would rather they stated their conditions of entry beforehand.

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I was talking in general about the leisure and hospitality industries and not clubs since our Portuguese enthusiast brought other venues up.

 

Just to clarify, if a venue wants to let in anyone then that is also fine with me but I personally would rather they stated their conditions of entry beforehand.

But the venues do want to let anyone in but the Govt will make it law for them to only let in double jabbed 

[Back to 2005]

3 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Correct but it does stop the vast majority of severe illness and death which is what it is designed to do. And if the majority of the population was vaccinated then herd immunity would turn it into any other virus.

So you are basically saying their only purpose is to coerce people in to taking the vaccine which for young people especially is not needed. What sort of society would think that as acceptable? 

[Costanza]

7 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

The flaw is of course being vaccinated does not stop you getting or passing on covid.

Moat people who have refused the jab are not anti vaxx. They have the intelligence to do their own risk assessment on the risk of a trial period vaccination against the risk of covid.

 

I watched an interview at weekend and the US scientist (forget his name, sorry) said most vaccines if there was a side effect, we would know in the first 2 months,  which is reflected here in link below.

If people are worried about the unknown long term impacts of a vaccine, are they therefore against mass infection as presumably we don't know the long term impact of covid on say internal organs etc.?

I'll be honest,  I don't get the scepticism on the vaccine when there's no evidence to support it as a greater risk than contracting covid.

 

https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19-vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

5 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

So you are basically saying their only purpose is to coerce people in to taking the vaccine which for young people especially is not needed. What sort of society would think that as acceptable? 

Define young in this context please?

 

No vaccines have been approved for anyone under 12 anywhere.

[Back to 2005]

1 minute ago, Costanza said:

I watched an interview at weekend and the US scientist (forget his name, sorry) said most vaccines if there was a side effect, we would know in the first 2 months,  which is reflected here in link below.

If people are worried about the unknown long term impacts of a vaccine, are they therefore against mass infection as presumably we don't know the long term impact of covid on say internal organs etc.?

I'll be honest,  I don't get the scepticism on the vaccine when there's no evidence to support it as a greater risk than contracting covid.

 

https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19-vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects

Nobody can possibly know the risks 100% either side of the argument. I'm not stopping anyone from taking it. I just want to be free to make up my own mind without the coercion tactics being used.

[Back to 2005]

4 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Define young in this context please?

 

No vaccines have been approved for anyone under 12 anywhere.

I mean young adults which to me is under 35! 

[Costanza]

3 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

Nobody can possibly know the risks 100% either side of the argument. I'm not stopping anyone from taking it. I just want to be free to make up my own mind without the coercion tactics being used.

Understand the point on coercion but I do struggle with understanding how we would arrive at  the view of say, a 30 year old being more at risk from the vaccine. I don't see any evidence of that.

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

2 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

I mean young adults which to me is under 35! 

Why 35? Why not 25? Or 45?

 

The point again is vaccination protects yourself and offers secondary benefits to others. If society chooses to preference those who have been vaccinated because it helps prevents things like lockdowns to protect health services then it should be free to do so. If that feels discriminatory to anti-vaxxers then tough titties.

[Unknown user]

52 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

Seriously?! If this goes ahead youngsters are unable to go clubbing without taking a vaccine. In all likelihood you will be unable to go to football a restaurant or to the pub without a passport

So explain to me how that is not coercion? 

 

Because that's not what the word means. 

 

Are people who want to drive coerced into getting a license? If you want to build a house are you coerced into getting permission? You're being hysterical.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

35 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

But the venues do want to let anyone in but the Govt will make it law for them to only let in double jabbed 

Well then, stand for election and change the government if you feel strongly enough.

[Ulysses]

34 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

I mean young adults which to me is under 35! 

 

Got a source for that?   

Edited July 19, 2021 by Ulysses

[JimmyCant]

6 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Fair enough, my colleague turned up in her seventh week and they turned her away and told her to come back the following day.  Likewise my wife called and was told not to go down until after 8 weeks.  
 

guy in front of me in queue for my second got turned away and was raging.  Each area clearly has it own approach.  

The whole of Scotland has the exact same strict approach to 8 weeks now. That’s been in place for 4-5 weeks. Vaccinators have been told they are not insured to vaccinate under 8 weeks and it’s gross misconduct if they do. The odd one slips through the net even despite that warning it seems.

[Ulysses]

6 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

It was 60%, but I accept that the headline numbers just now are well down on the January peak.  England is probably a few weeks away from its peak admission rate so we will have to wait and see how high it goes.

 

Apparently yer man corrected himself on Twitter later, saying that 60% were unvaccinated.  This implied that the other 40% have had either one or two shots, but there was no breakdown to say how many have had one and how many have had two.