Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[manaliveits105]

ITV news reporting we are far worse rate at 640 than rUK - don’t get it also don’t get why if vaccines are issued proportionately NI are already on over 30s

we only did 5000 new jabs yesterday (40000 2nds)

[Konrad von Carstein]

23 hours ago, jonesy said:

 

Glad to bolster the numbers, Enzo.

 

One assumes you've been keeping the nodding dogs at bay with your usual common sense-grounded posting.

No,  he has been erratic and funny in equal measure, depending on how you read his posts.

 

Nodding dogs, you are a one @Jonesy

[FWJ]

2 hours ago, jonesy said:

You’re quite right. It was a slapdash attempt at humour which has clearly had unintended consequences. Although as several posters have suggested, strops over such “inane” terms may indicate little more than an inability to deal with a mix of mild joshing and scepticism. 

 

However, let us not pretend that those who have disagreed - whether vocally or through their IRL actions - with the continued use of fear and headline statistics to manipulate the public over the last 13 months (often, but not always with good intent, IMO) are the only ones guilty of either mockery or condescension.

 

And, (adopting a Peter Falk voice) one more thing... it’s interesting that the KBB ‘jibe’ has been, possibly for good reason, raised a few hackles, and yet some punter lobbing back the rather impotent but no less insulting verbal hand grenade of ‘flat earther’ my way was ignored, alongside everyone’s favourite tartan-bedecked slow-cooker hard man telling me he was going to make me greet (perhaps he was just offering to lend me his Bambi DVD?).

 

The inability of those who see themselves as being ‘on the right side’ of thinking when it comes to restrictions and responses to this epidemic to genuinely appreciate the misgivings of those who advocate not only a different approach but a different mindset is little more than a social-media age playing out of Holy Willie’s Prayer. Kettles, pot is saying goodnight.

Ah yes.  Throwing around fatuous insults and then falling back in the old ‘but... but... I was only joking’

[FWJ]

22 minutes ago, jonesy said:

An over simplistic summary which does you no credit

You just can’t stop the condescension, can you?

 

[FWJ]

3 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Not when debating with you, no.

Well it appears your condescension has reached its apotheosis.

 

Night night.

[Costanza]

Come back for a peek on this thread and the words Critical and Thinker being thrown about like Democratic  in the full name of North Korea 😄

Anyway, as you were.

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, jonesy said:

An over simplistic summary which does you no credit.

 

Can do it all sans insults, should you so wish.

 

Daily COVID ‘case’ stats have created a baited breath population whose next move entirely depends on the governments’ whim, which may or not be in response to validated data provided by tests which are less than 100% accurate and a broad brushstroke approach which refuses to differentiate between infections in the vulnerable and those who can simply shrug it off. 
 

There is not one among us who wishes to infect a vulnerable person with a deadly virus. Yet, there are seemingly some who are only to keen to inhibit the hard won freedoms of those for whom COVID presents little to no risk, and prevent them from enjoying the wondrous lives enjoyed by previous generations. That’s not even utilitarianism, that’s simply a one size fits all approach to something that a certain generation can’t get over that they are closer to than is comfortable.  Fear of dying is not the same as embracing life. The latter of which is being removed by those who have the former. 

 

[Mars plastic]

Thousands raving down at the Bramley Dock in Liverpool yesterday. The vids on Twitter look tremendous although the Nervous  Nellies and Petrified Peters will be utterly horrified. 

[Carl Fredrickson]

@redjambo thanks for the clear and concise stats you have posted, I found them very helpful and probably didnt say thanks enough. 

[milky_26]

13 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

ITV news reporting we are far worse rate at 640 than rUK - don’t get it also don’t get why if vaccines are issued proportionately NI are already on over 30s

we only did 5000 new jabs yesterday (40000 2nds)

the difference in who can get vaccines might be related to the make up of each nations population. what i mean is scotland might have a higher number of over 50s  as a percentage of populatoin than NI, Eng, Wal. someone will correct me if im wrong but the proportionality of the vaccines is on total eligible population rather than by age groups

Edited May 1, 2021 by milky_26

[XB52]

13 hours ago, Adam_the_legend said:

I posted the original tweet. Do you have a link to the correct stats?

Said I wasn't coming back to this thread but I'll answer. The numbers you quoted are guesstimates from the ONS. The factual figures can be found on the travelling tabby site. Overall cases per 100k are England 6852, Scotland 4134. Last week figures are 24 and 23. Wales totals are 6707 but their recent figures are low, 13 for the last week, presumably as their vaccination figures are higher

[JudyJudyJudy]

56 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Said I wasn't coming back to this thread but I'll answer. The numbers you quoted are guesstimates from the ONS. The factual figures can be found on the travelling tabby site. Overall cases per 100k are England 6852, Scotland 4134. Last week figures are 24 and 23. Wales totals are 6707 but their recent figures are low, 13 for the last week, presumably as their vaccination figures are higher

Dearie me 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Great to see a nightclub was opened in Newcastle last night. Saw the young people on tv enjoying their night. Brilliant. Great start.  I dread to think the fear that this may cause for some though  

[Taffin]

26 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Great to see a nightclub was opened in Newcastle last night. Saw the young people on tv enjoying their night. Brilliant. Great start.  I dread to think the fear that this may cause for some though  

 

I advise you needn't worry about the fear it causes for others (if indeed it does), that's their concern to worry about. Stay positive, it's a very welcome and necessary development in getting back to normality.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Taffin

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Taffin said:

 

I advise you needn't worry about the fear it causes for others (if indeed it does), that's their concern to worry about. Stay positive, it's a very welcome and necessary development in getting back to normality.

Yeah your right. I should have been positive. It is a great step forward irrespective of what others think or worry. Cheers  

[cheetah]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

Great to see a nightclub was opened in Newcastle last night. Saw the young people on tv enjoying their night. Brilliant. Great start.  I dread to think the fear that this may cause for some though  

 

What club was that? was out in the toon last night and was looking for a late pint but had to call it a day at midnight, to be fair i had been out since 1pm  

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, cheetah said:

 

What club was that? was out in the toon last night and was looking for a late pint but had to call it a day at midnight, to be fair i had been out since 1pm  

Not sure it will be repeating on loop on bbc news all day i guess 

[theshed]

3 minutes ago, cheetah said:

 

What club was that? was out in the toon last night and was looking for a late pint but had to call it a day at midnight, to be fair i had been out since 1pm  

Think he’s getting mixed up with the music festival that’s on in Liverpool this weekend and not Newcastle 

[JudyJudyJudy]

23 minutes ago, theshed said:

Think he’s getting mixed up with the music festival that’s on in Liverpool this weekend and not Newcastle 

Yes sorry it was Liverpool I’m hungover Today so my “critical thinkin”is ski whiff today 😂

[cheetah]

29 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Not sure it will be repeating on loop on bbc news all day i guess 

 

29 minutes ago, theshed said:

Think he’s getting mixed up with the music festival that’s on in Liverpool this weekend and not Newcastle 

 

4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes sorry it was Liverpool I’m hungover Today so my “critical thinkin”is ski whiff today 😂

cheers guys, was too drunk to make it to Liverpool anyway so missed nowt 

[manaliveits105]

175 new cases 1 death - hospital and icu same at 67 and 9 

 

28 new cases in Edinburgh down from 34 yesterday  - good 

 

glasgow has taken the lead with 26 ! - open ra pubs 

[Ray Gin]

7 hours ago, Mars plastic said:

Thousands raving down at the Bramley Dock in Liverpool yesterday. The vids on Twitter look tremendous although the Nervous  Nellies and Petrified Peters will be utterly horrified. 

 

Everyone had to pass a Covid test before entry. 

[Tazio]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-56955880

[Enzo Chiefo]

14 minutes ago, Tazio said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-56955880

There are no words, Tazio. How sick does someone have to be?

[Tazio]

14 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

There are no words, Tazio. How sick does someone have to be?

It’s shocking, I’m not one for moral outrage normally but the sheer lack of human empathy to do something like this is mind boggling. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

So true ! I actually thought it was. Spoof headline at first 

[Zico]

2 hours ago, Tazio said:

It’s shocking, I’m not one for moral outrage normally but the sheer lack of human empathy to do something like this is mind boggling. 

Likewise. It’s absolutely heartless, I can’t get my head around it. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

Well, it's taken them a while but finally SAGE admit that the risk of Covid infection within hospitality is small.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9530225/SAGE-admits-risk-catching-Covid-pub-restaurant-relatively-low.html

[Ray Gin]

12 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Well, it's taken them a while but finally SAGE admit that the risk of Covid infection within hospitality is small.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9530225/SAGE-admits-risk-catching-Covid-pub-restaurant-relatively-low.html

 

Doesn't look like they 'admitted' anything going by that article. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

3 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Doesn't look like they 'admitted' anything going by that article. 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but "relatively low" confirms what most of us already suspected, in terms of the risk of Covid infection within hospitality. 

[manaliveits105]

Cool jkb group hugs soon 

 

 

[Ray Gin]

8 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but "relatively low" confirms what most of us already suspected, in terms of the risk of Covid infection within hospitality. 

 

Relatively low but higher than shops and gyms. That's why shops and gyms open up quicker. Problem? 

 

There's also no admission or quotes by sage, they simply published a report with figures. 

[Costanza]

8 hours ago, jonesy said:

That'll be the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, one of the few countries that closed borders early and have recorded no cases of CV19 within its population.

 

Pak Myong-su, a director at North Korea's Central Emergency Anti-epidemic headquarters, told news agency AFP: "Not one single person has been infected with the novel coronavirus in our country so far."

"We have carried out pre-emptive and scientific measures such as inspections and quarantine for all personnel entering our country and thoroughly disinfecting all goods, as well as closing borders and blocking sea and air lanes."

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Oh, come on, if anyone can't see that this is a bit of a joke then there's no hope for any of us!

 

But still continue to fire rockets into the Sea of Japan, which makes me question their commitment to the closed border/ zero covid strategy.

They say they are disinfecting the missiles first but does anyone believe them?

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

14 hours ago, Tazio said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-56955880

 

Sadly it's not only in the larger towns & cities were this thing happens.

A memorial tree for a young lassie in Peebles was uprooted just the other week & I'm certain a few years ago a baby's grave was trashed also in Peebles, toys stolen and flowers thrown all over the place, vases smashed.

 

I do not get what the scum get out of doing something like this.

[JudyJudyJudy]

11 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Well, it's taken them a while but finally SAGE admit that the risk of Covid infection within hospitality is small.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9530225/SAGE-admits-risk-catching-Covid-pub-restaurant-relatively-low.html

Yeah I saw that article last night online . You have been vindicated ! But humility from some on this is lacking si dont expect any acknowledgment . Yes it was an easy target and one dors wonder about the more sinister underlying reasons for it ( change drinking habits ) 

10 hours ago, jonesy said:

 

No danger am I hugging my family just because the government tell me to.

 

Oh, wait... 

 

 

Your so contrary 😂

4 hours ago, Lord BJ said:

The NHS, reportedly, finalising the proposal to vaccinate children over 12 with the Pzifer vaccine. Pzifer have made an application for use to be extended to over 12’s. 
 

It’s expected to start September time 

It’ll be interesting to see the take up of this from parents . None of my friends who are parents and some of my Nieces and nephews are quite clear none  of their children will be getting it . 

[Ray Gin]

8 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yeah I saw that article last night online . You have been vindicated ! But humility from some on this is lacking si dont expect any acknowledgment . Yes it was an easy target and one dors wonder about the more sinister underlying reasons for it ( change drinking habits ) 

Your so contrary 😂

It’ll be interesting to see the take up of this from parents . None of my friends who are parents and some of my Nieces and nephews are quite clear none  of their children will be getting it . 

 

You could take exactly the same sage report and write a story saying "Sage admit transmission in hospitality is higher than in shops and gyms". 

 

The article is standard Daily Mail bawbaggery. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

28 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

Its not being done for the kids health. So I guess the argument is that it will reduce transmission or variant. Without seeing the argument it’s difficult to judge it but it better be something other than they will ‘die’ if they don’t. I have heard some talk that we are anticipating getting to a level to trigger herd immunity possibility. It might vaccinating over 12’s would get us over that threshold.

 

I will wait and see the plan comes out but I suspect uptake amongst under 18’s to be significantly less than those in older age groups.

 

Though my kids are at age where the get a bunch of injections for all manners of things such as HPV etc, I will probably just add to the list of those vaccines for my kids to taken to be honest, I accept the medical advice, because I understand that they understand the situation better than me; even if that involves me putting some misgivings to the side.

 

You ever fancied or considered kids as a matter of interest or have I being watching too much Modern family 😃

Yes apparently the argument for kids to get the vaccine is to increase herd immunity as such. Very noble idea but its a massive decision and responsibility for a parent to make. Why not wait for a few months and see how the vaccine has panned out once everyone has had their second dose?  I mean every adult ? Its the most sensible thing to do. 

 

No  i have never fancied having kids. Hardly ever  crossed my mind. I dont feel any sense of loss or what could have beens about not being  a parent. I have seen both sides of parenting in my work and personal life.  Good parenting v bad parenting. It takes a lot of energy. time . and commitment to be a good loving parent. Its a selfless act.  You need to forego your independence and give everything to it.  Therefore It would never have suited me. 

 

I would probably be quite inconistent in my parenting and a bit chaotic if i am being honest and too much of a hippie/ liberal type and this can be just as damaging as being deliberately abusive. However i can only think that I might not have been. 

 

I also read an interesting article about what a parent is...Its a " series of losses"...Basically kids grow up and then leave. I know it sounds very depressing but the article was saying that parents have tremendous feelings of loss as kids change every day from being very vulnerable and needy to then becoming teenagers and all the worries that come from that as a parent then become fully formed independent functional adults who dont need their parents anymore. ( now you can see my Livia Soprano thinking ) Job done i suppose. Of-course thats a very pessimistic view of parenting . even if correct as the joys of it far outweigh those other areas I would assume.

 

I have 17 neices and nephews and now they have kids so plenty children around about me and I can hand them back. Its also very exhausting work chasing a 2 years old around the museum the other day making sure he wasn't up to mischief or causing harm to himself. The other nephew is 9 and is a lovely warm. caring child . Thats all due to his parents and interactions with others like myself.. 

 

Just as an aside i  agree with the theory regarding Heteronormativity. Ie heterosexual institutions etc should not be viewed as a template for gay or lesbian people to aspire to. Things like having children and marriage which were traditionally viewed as heterosexual and something to aspire to and achieve and if not you weren't a fully rounded human being. 

[jambo89]

To be honest, the story of the vandalism from Fife has really angered me. This is the sort of behaviour that eventually manifests when you allow certain views to go unchecked. Would love to find the freaks and give them a good kick in. 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by jambo89

[milky_26]

1 minute ago, jambo89 said:

To be honest, the story of the vandalism from Fife has really angered me. This is the sort of behaviour that eventually manifests when you allow certain views to go unchecked. Would love to find the freaks and give them a good kick in. 

 

It is interesting that a certain group of posters has failed to acknowledge or condemn the news too. 

i wont post my views on what i think of those people as i would get a period of time in jkb slammer. Your point re this behaviour manifesting due to it going unchecked is correct and no doubt can and may escalate to things like the attacking of buses that we have seen recently

[JudyJudyJudy]

37 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

My kids would be amongst the last to get done due to age, so would be a period anyway prior to getting. It’s one of those decisions you make as close as possible as have most info. 

 

 

No I just wondered. 
 

I can’t lie never hard a burning desire and if it wasn’t for wife, not sure would ever had them. That said it’s best decision I’ve ever made on a number of levels. I don’t really see my kids leaving as a negative it’s just a progression of life and our relationship will adjust. 
 

You must be from a large family. 
 

On you last para, I think it’s more want individual in life want.  ‘Gay’ people fought for marriage, adoption/parenting rights. So something that clearly important to other members of the ‘community’. 
 

You are in a steady/traditional relationship in that you have a long term partner are you. So you follow some social conventions as they appeal. 
 

Anyway none of mine just wondered if ever had urge. Ohh and if I can make a good parent, have little doubt you would manage 👍

👍

[Costanza]

Kids can get Covid and a number of kids in the UK under 16 have long covid over a number of months. If any vaccine was safe and proven to be so then my daughter would get the vaccine. Personally don't understand why you would choose risk of debilitating health conditions (even if minute) over a safe vaccine.

 

In Focus: The truth about long Covid, kids and school | Metro News

[Gizmo]

If we vaccinate enough adults, then if kids get it asymptomatically, you'd assume they could only be infection vectors for each other. We'd reach herd immunity that way if we don't encounter any vaccine-escaping mutations - again, this is assuming kids shrug the virus off fairly quickly.

Parents will need decent data for Covid-19 risk (ie long covid) v vaccine risk to make an informed decision, set against any health issues their kids have too.   

 

[Costanza]

31 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

I find that really strange. You might not agree with, it but not to understand it? 

 

Lets not pretend the vaccine is being taken for the kids health benefit, it isn’t. It because of other concerns whether they be herd immunity/variations or whatever. Vaccines aren’t without risk, (Oxford AZ is demonstrating where the tipping points are) they may be incredibly low but as low as risk to COVID to kids.?

 

Why take the risk of a vaccine when it 1 in 10,000,000 of delibating health conditions. What’s the risk of blood clots, allergic reactions from the vaccine. The vaccine will never be 100% and therefore it needs to be safer than the risk of COVID to kids, difficult to prove this until a role out happens. 

 

I’m always surprised when people never try an understand alternate positions. 

 

Where are you getting the 1 in 10 million figure from?

The ONS has long covid as 12.9% in 2-11 and 14.5 for 12-16.

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthandlifeexpectancies/adhocs/12788updatedestimatesoftheprevalenceoflongcovidsymptoms

 

I therefore don't agree with your conjecture that the vaccine would not be for the health benefits for kids.

We know children can be impacted by covid so it's implicit in my statement about a safe vaccine, that it means the risk of any complications from a vaccine would have to be lower than that of covid.

If it wasn't then my opinion would be different.

[Taffin]

38 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

I find that really strange. You might not agree with, it but not to understand it? 

 

Lets not pretend the vaccine is being taken for the kids health benefit, it isn’t. It because of other concerns whether they be herd immunity/variations or whatever. Vaccines aren’t without risk, (Oxford AZ is demonstrating where the tipping points are) they may be incredibly low but as low as risk to COVID to kids.?

 

Why take the risk of a vaccine when it 1 in 10,000,000 of delibating health conditions. What’s the risk of blood clots, allergic reactions from the vaccine. The vaccine will never be 100% and therefore it needs to be safer than the risk of COVID to kids, difficult to prove this until a role out happens. 

 

I’m always surprised when people never try an understand alternate positions. 

 

 

Ultimately it will be for parents to decide, in the same way it's for adults to decide.

 

Whether other people agree with those choices shouldn't enter the decision making.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Costanza said:

Kids can get Covid and a number of kids in the UK under 16 have long covid over a number of months. If any vaccine was safe and proven to be so then my daughter would get the vaccine. Personally don't understand why you would choose risk of debilitating health conditions (even if minute) over a safe vaccine.

 

In Focus: The truth about long Covid, kids and school | Metro News

Yes we know kids can get it but it is mainly not a threat to them . End of.  

35 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

If we vaccinate enough adults, then if kids get it asymptomatically, you'd assume they could only be infection vectors for each other. We'd reach herd immunity that way if we don't encounter any vaccine-escaping mutations - again, this is assuming kids shrug the virus off fairly quickly.

Parents will need decent data for Covid-19 risk (ie long covid) v vaccine risk to make an informed decision, set against any health issues their kids have too.   

 

There is no " assumption" about kids shrugging off the virus. They do. Agree re parents making their informed choice. Its up to them. 

15 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Ultimately it will be for parents to decide, in the same way it's for adults to decide.

 

Whether other people agree with those choices shouldn't enter the decision making.

Exactly 

13 minutes ago, jonesy said:

These days, I'm surprised when people do try to understand alternate positions, m'Lord.

Tell me.  

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, jonesy said:

 

Hugs are for the random Hearts fans beside you when the winner goes in at cup finals, derbies, and away games that have been preceded by a morning drinking session.

 

Male family members indulging in hugs get short shrift in the Jonesy clan. Males may choose to hug females at weddings, funerals and after a birth, but are under no obligation to do so.

 

Perhaps Covid passports will come with a QR code which you can scan near an approved 'hugging point', subsequently receiving a confirmation message from Chris Whitty that you may proceed with the hug, but only for a maximum of three seconds. The chips in the passports will mean that both unapproved and/or indoor hugs trigger a warning alarm, resulting in a fixed penalty notice.

Very humorous but also very prescient regarding   the covid passports. So if you get a penalty notice for a hug what do you get for a s*** ? Sent to the gulag  i assume I just recall some on this and other media platforms asking  " am i allowed" " is it allowed? " etc.  Poor is the man whos  pleasures depend on the permission of others.....

[JudyJudyJudy]

 

 

 

 

James Tierney

 

Well said Neil Clark. You are one of very very few journalists asking the right questions and holding true to journalistic professionalism.

Normalising the abnormal: From ‘We’re not planning Covid passports’ to ‘They may be needed long term’ in 3 easy months

It’s now being suggested that Covid vaccine passports may be needed for the long term in the UK, just three months after the vaccines minister explicitly denied there were any plans to introduce vaccine passports.

There is nothing more permanent than a temporary government programme, the old saying goes, but in light of the past 13 months, we should actually update that to “there is nothing more permanent than a temporary government programme which the government denies it is planning to introduce in the first place.”

The UK government didn’t want to do lockdown in March 2020, or so we were led to believe. The truth, as I highlighted previously, was that the government had already struck a £119-million contract with a major US advertising company urging people to ‘Stay Home, Stay Safe’ a full three weeks earlier.

And when lockdown was introduced it was famously for just three weeks. To “flatten the curve.” Strictly temporary. Thirteen months on, we still can’t sit inside a pub, or leave the country to go on holiday. And councils are recruiting ‘Covid marshals’ to enforce the rules into 2022! Imagine if someone had told you in March 2020 that in May 2021 this would be the case. You probably would have said they had been listening to too much David Icke. But that’s what’s happened. No wonder there was such a ferocious Matthew Hopkins-esque witch-hunter campaign last spring to ban Icke from social media.

Let’s talk face masks. Last spring we were told they weren’t of much use. The government wouldn’t be mandating them. But then we began to see a campaign to get the government to mandate masks.

As late as July 12, Michael Gove ruled out the government making them compulsory in shops.

And guess what happened? On July 14 the government announced that masks would be compulsory in shops. But of course, it would only be a temporary measure, and limited to shops.

Ten months on, face coverings are not only still compulsory in shops, but the mandate has been extended to many other places too. And note well, the government roadmap for the removal of restrictions makes no mention of if/when the mask mandate will ever be repealed. The Daily Telegraph reported this week that masks are likely to remain compulsory even after restrictions are supposed to be lifted on June 21. In March, Mary Ramsay, head of immunisation at Public Health England, said face coverings (and social distancing) would be needed “certainly for a few years.” “People have got used to those lower-level restrictions now, and people can live with them, and the economy can still go on with those less severe restrictions in place,” she said. So much for “it’s only for fifteen minutes a week for a few weeks when you do the weekly shop in Tesco’s”.

Now it’s the turn of vaccine passports. Again, to even mention them in 2020 would have got you smeared as a ‘conspiracy theorist’ (or worse), even when the World Economic Forum was openly promoting its ‘Common Pass’ health passport scheme on social media.

At the turn of the year, though, even ‘mainstream’ voices began to express concern about the direction of travel. On January 12, UK Vaccines Minister Nadhim Zahawi tweeted, in response to a Daily Telegraph report that vaccine passports would be trialled by thousands of Britons: “We have no plans to introduce vaccine passports. No one has been given or will be required to have a vaccine passport.”

Fast forward three months to April 5 and we have this on the government’s ‘Roadmap Reviews’ update:

The Government believes that COVID-status certification could have an important role to play both domestically and internationally, as a temporary measure.

Note how we’ve gone from calling them ‘vaccine passports’ to ‘Covid-status certification’ – because test results could be used for those who don’t have the vaccine. And note, too, the words “as a temporary measure.” A few days earlier, Culture Minister Oliver Dowden had also stressed this, saying of vaccine passports/Covid health certificates:

“Of course we would never look to do this on a permanent basis, it's just whether it might be a tool in the short term.”

But now, a month later, the idea of vaccine passports being a permanent feature of daily life is being mooted.

“I think they’re here for the long term, we’re finding our way forwards on these both internationally and domestically. But I think the system is going to settle down nationally and internationally as a long-term form of certification and protection,” Professor Christopher Dye, professor of epidemiology at Oxford, told MPs on the Science and Technology Committee this week.

Dye’s main concern seems to be about the language used to describe vaccine passports. “I think we need to describe this in terms of neutral language, and the term ‘passport’ and ‘certificate’ has been difficult,” he said, adding: “A word like ‘pass’ is more neutral.”

I’m sure if William Shakespeare had met the professor he’d have replied: “A rose by any other name would smell as sweet, and a vaccine passport as sour.”

See how it works? Whether we call it boiling the frog, gradualism, or salami tactics, the strategy is:

(a) to rule something out, with Establishment/Deep State gatekeepers smearing those warning of it as ‘cranks’, ’conspiracy theorists’, or ‘crackpots’ (or all three)

(b) It is confirmed that ‘Yes’, it will be implemented (and the ‘cranks’ and ‘conspiracy theorists’ were actually right). But don’t worry, it’s only a temporary, limited measure – so what’s your problem?

(c) Once people get used to the measure, ‘temporary’ becomes not so temporary and ‘limited’ becomes not so limited.

The result is that an extreme, abnormal measure which no one would have supported a few months back, now, because of the strategy used to implement it, becomes accepted – and normalised.

With vaccine passports we need to be aware there is still the psyops element, that the powers-that-be currently want us to think their introduction is inevitable in order to drive up vaccine uptake among younger groups – which would then make vaccine passports workable. There is still a chance that the scheme won’t be implemented, and its supporters are currently calling high, when they hold no picture cards in their hand.

But if vaccine passports are introduced, even for the most limited circumstances, we can be sure of two things. The scheme won’t be ‘limited’ but will be expanded over time into a full-scale digitalised Chinese-style social credit restricted access system, AND it won’t be ‘temporary’.

‘Covid certificates for just one year’?

If that’s how it gets ‘sold’ to us, prepare for the longest year in history. Don’t forget, income tax was only meant to be a temporary measure, too, when first introduced in 1799. All the government needs – and has ever needed with vaccine passports – is a foot in the door.

 

Well said James 

[Costanza]

38 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes we know kids can get it but it is mainly not a threat to them . End of.  

There is no " assumption" about kids shrugging off the virus. They do. Agree re parents making their informed choice. Its up to them. 

Exactly 

Tell me.  

End of isn't an argument.

Show me the statistics to back up your stance. I've linked to ONS stats, so if you want to change my mind, do the hard yards and back it up.

Based on the evidence, kids are lower risk than adults but can still be infected and have long term conditions so therefore I'm saying I'd be for kids getting the vaccine if the vaccine is proven to be low risk.

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

I can open link but can’t download info or its not opening.

 

So for clarity, are you saying 12.9% of 2-11 years old have long COVID. What’s the 12.9% of? 

 

Someone else did this argument with me earlier in thread and the % of children of long COVID was something like 0.001 in kids when numbers got broken down. So be interested to see your data is different.

 

No vaccine is 100% safe, you accept that, but we don’t know if this risk is lower than the risk of COVID yet because it hasn’t being rolled out in any way. Oxford AZ, was safe but has now been suspended in numerous countries , including the UK because the risk is determined to be to severe than the risk of COVID in certain age groups. Is it that a big a leap to think similar could happen in roll out of younger groups?

 

The truth is we don’t know the risk because we are comparing some minute risks. The fact you seem unable to understand why people might have concerns is really surprising.

 

 

Yes people have every right to be concerned about the long term effects of the vaccine as it is still very early days for this to be evidenced.  So parents have every right to be cautious about the risk to their children.  They have almost zero to fear of their children becoming seriously ill or even dying of covid.  As stated the only reason for children to be vaccinated is regarding herd immunity. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Costanza said:

End of isn't an argument.

Show me the statistics to back up your stance. I've linked to ONS stats, so if you want to change my mind, do the hard yards and back it up.

Based on the evidence, kids are lower risk than adults but can still be infected and have long term conditions so therefore I'm saying I'd be for kids getting the vaccine if the vaccine is proven to be low risk.

as you said " if the vaccine is proven to be low risk" we dont know yet.