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34 minutes ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

Was about to post as well

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Under the new system, local authorities which have a case rate of more than 150 cases per 100,000 are likely to end up in level four - when only essential shops can open and hospitality must close.

 

The previous threshold for level four was 300 cases per 100,000.

 

Cases will also need to drop to below 50 per 100,000 in a local authority before it will be considered for level two, much lower than the previous rate of 150 per 100,000. That is the level where non-essential journeys outside the authority boundary are allowed and pubs can serve alcohol.

 

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So the best Edinburgh can hope for is level 2 but if its the whole of Lothian then not a chance on current figures. Level 2 = meal required for a pint - unlike England.

 

Extract of what was published a week ago.

 

 

 

 

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Shanks said no

thanks @DETTY29 and @redjambo

 

I probably need to step away from this thread for a wee while, one year on its taking its toll, in particular to my family. I have been working in the office every day for the whole year but am only now beginning to realise the effect its had on those close to me, who work in hospitality. I had buried myself in my work and apart from being exhausted myself hadn't fully understood the impact on those close to me.

 

If any of them are reading this and they might be, I'm sorry.

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1 minute ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

thanks @DETTY29 and @redjambo

 

I probably need to step away from this thread for a wee while, one year on its taking its toll, in particular to my family. I have been working in the office every day for the whole year but am only now beginning to realise the effect its had on those close to me, who work in hospitality. I had buried myself in my work and apart from being exhausted myself hadn't fully understood the impact on those close to me.

 

If any of them are reading this and they might be, I'm sorry.

 

That's not good to hear, TFR. You take good care of yourself and those close to you. À bientôt, mon ami!

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4 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Take it easy, TFR, things will get better soon

 

One thing we can definitely agree on, jonesy. :thumb: It's going to be a slightly different world, for a while at least, but I genuinely believe that we're getting towards the end of the tunnel.

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Auldbenches
3 hours ago, Back to 2005 said:

This is surely one thing we can all agree on....

Hancock looks like he didn't get picked to be a prefect and vowed to get them back.   

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8 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Is there provision for instances where cases can be traced to a specific institution(s) such as nursing homes and prisons for the case rates to be adjusted or asterisked in order to prevent what might be deemed artificially-high rates punishing a specific LA? 

 

In theory, that sounds like a great idea, but taking the prisons for example, the figures from East Ayrshire and West Lothian showed that there was significant related community transmission, imo, whether the prison outbreaks were the cause or the effect. Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire with the Portlethen food plant outbreak was a good example as well - it started small and in a short time Aberdeen, traditionally one of the least-infected areas, was one of the most infected areas in the country. It would probably have been better to take tier-related action far more quickly in that case.

 

If you could be absolutely sure, or have a very high confidence at least, that an outbreak was isolated then it would fly, otherwise it's probably better to err on the side of caution.

 

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9 hours ago, scott herbertson said:

 

 

Great idea

 

we could have a cup format

 

Internet Hardmen vs Secret Hibs Sympathers

Happy Clappers vs The Miserabilists

Cathro's Laptop Lapdogs vs The Young M***** Stendels

Unionists versus  Sturgeonists

 

Referees from a pool of D. Trump, D.Ross*, J.Leitch, D. Cummings 

 

D.Ross has requested to referee the Unionists vs Flag debaters  game

 

:D

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7 hours ago, redjambo said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-56237471

 

Covid in Scotland: Tighter rules will be used to decide on levels


So at the moment we are looking at half of Scotland still being locked down when restrictions are lifted? 
 

Are they due to stop furlough when they open up down south?
What do the people in hospitality do up here? 
 
Also, will go down well us sitting watching people down south on tv out drinking and eating in the sun as we sit in our back gardens unless as usual it’s pissing down so instead we are stuck in the house 

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Nucky Thompson
20 minutes ago, Dazo said:


She just can’t help herself. Despite the vaccine doing its job she decides make the levels stricter. 🙄

It's people just shrugging their shoulders and accepting it that I can't understand.

 

Let's see if she runs with this all the way up until the elections. No chance imo 

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4 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

It's people just shrugging their shoulders and accepting it that I can't understand.

 

Let's see if she runs with this all the way up until the elections. No chance imo 


Honestly can’t see it happening. 
can’t see people just shrugging their shoulders this time 

 

Can just see us sitting at home watching Scotland at the euros with fans in the ground and if I’m very lucky I could pop out and get my haircut and pickup a takeaway coffee on the way home 

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Fxxx the SPFL
28 minutes ago, Dazo said:


She just can’t help herself. Despite the vaccine doing its job she decides make the levels stricter. 🙄

what a farce this will create major problems as you can see already people getting pissed off. i have had two grandkids born during Covid and because they stay in the Borders we've hardly seen them sticking to the rules. There is no way we are not going to travel to see them or have them up staying overnight even if it means not sticking to the tier system Edinburgh will most likely be stuck in tier 3 and Scottish Borders Tier 1 or 2 that's just not going to happen. My in-laws in a nursing home in Edinburgh have had one window visit with them during the last year they are heartbroken and given their current health related issues they might never see them before passing away. Sturgeon can stick her new criteria up her arse as far as i am concerned absolute disgrace of a woman don't know how she can sleep at night.

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7 hours ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

thanks @DETTY29 and @redjambo

 

I probably need to step away from this thread for a wee while, one year on its taking its toll, in particular to my family. I have been working in the office every day for the whole year but am only now beginning to realise the effect its had on those close to me, who work in hospitality. I had buried myself in my work and apart from being exhausted myself hadn't fully understood the impact on those close to me.

 

If any of them are reading this and they might be, I'm sorry.

Take care.

 

Hopefully you didn't take it in anyway that I was implying you should have known this as it is week old news.

 

Any dig is on the press who took a week to report on something that was out there snd would have reported by now by doing some basic research.  Following the SG or Jason Keith is all they would have to do to know it's there.

 

The first dose vaccines are having tremendous impacts.  We are getting there.

Edited by DETTY29
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Nucky Thompson
1 minute ago, Lord BJ said:


Seriously, what do you suggest people do? 
 

Far from happy but absolutely no alternate other than shrug my shoulder and take the @jonesyapproach to the rules. 
 

I like a rant on the internet but it doesn’t achieve anything, other than triggering some dafties.

People should be contacting their MSP's and kicking up a stink.

The Scottish media should rip into them on a daily basis.

England start getting freedom from 12th April and we go from lockdown A to lockdown B on 26th April.

It's just bullshit 

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1 minute ago, Nucky Thompson said:

People should be contacting their MSP's and kicking up a stink.

The Scottish media should rip into them on a daily basis.

England start getting freedom from 12th April and we go from lockdown A to lockdown B on 26th April.

It's just bullshit 

 

That remains to be seen in fairness. It wouldn't be unheard of for Boris to have been happy to over-commit, but yes, the data seems to be moving in a direction that suggests he may be able to deliver his aims.

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JudyJudyJudy
7 hours ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

thanks @DETTY29 and @redjambo

 

I probably need to step away from this thread for a wee while, one year on its taking its toll, in particular to my family. I have been working in the office every day for the whole year but am only now beginning to realise the effect its had on those close to me, who work in hospitality. I had buried myself in my work and apart from being exhausted myself hadn't fully understood the impact on those close to me.

 

If any of them are reading this and they might be, I'm sorry.

Take care 

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Lord Montpelier
3 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

People should be contacting their MSP's and kicking up a stink.

The Scottish media should rip into them on a daily basis.

England start getting freedom from 12th April and we go from lockdown A to lockdown B on 26th April.

It's just bullshit 

Completely agree Nucky. Particularly people who have been vaccinated already (I've not) who should be allowed to benefit from this. 

 

She should be putting this at least to a vote in the scottish parliament (not just a Q&A). Let's see if she does...

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Let’s wait and see what happens as I don’t believe even sturgeon is that daft to keep things locked down after April with people allowed to vote a few  weeks later plus if furlong is stopped then unemployed through the roof. 
 

 

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So by the time we get to end April all the 50s plus will be vaccinated and if the vaccine is having the impact we say then cases will continue to drop significantly with the considerable positive downstream impacts on cases, hospitalisations, icu submissions.

 

If anything this says the tiering limits last time as many suspected were far too lax.

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JudyJudyJudy
7 hours ago, redjambo said:

I don’t want to be negative but this new system seems rather harsh snd punitive . Really put a damper on my day already and I’m not out my kip yet. From my understanding it will be based on the weekly rates therefore does that mesh than areas May change tiers weekly ? Now that would really cause calamity . Also his the hell would any area get to level 1 never mind level 2 or the magical nirvana of no levels . This is really depressing 

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JudyJudyJudy
1 hour ago, theshed said:


So at the moment we are looking at half of Scotland still being locked down when restrictions are lifted? 
 

Are they due to stop furlough when they open up down south?
What do the people in hospitality do up here? 
 
Also, will go down well us sitting watching people down south on tv out drinking and eating in the sun as we sit in our back gardens unless as usual it’s pissing down so instead we are stuck in the house 

She’s certainly being “ cautious “ 

59 minutes ago, Dazo said:


She just can’t help herself. Despite the vaccine doing its job she decides make the levels stricter. 🙄

It is concerning . It’s worrying considering many of the population will be jabbed so done their bit. However these plans could go tits up if the daily deaths icu are extremely low irrespective of weekly infection rates 

35 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

It's people just shrugging their shoulders and accepting it that I can't understand.

 

Let's see if she runs with this all the way up until the elections. No chance imo 

Nucky I really Can’t see people accepting this system . It’s like a gut punch bordering on abuse . Mind you who would have believed that we would have been in a lockdown effectively since last October 

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Nucky Thompson
2 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Until 8th March element's of English daily life has been severely more restrictive than here.

Totally agree, but their roadmap based on data gives people hope. 

The data is starting to look good and hopefully for them, the reopening of schools doesn't have a negative effect

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1 hour ago, Dazo said:


She just can’t help herself. Despite the vaccine doing its job she decides make the levels stricter. 🙄

I think the reasoning is easing lockdown in line with the rate of vaccination.

 

The more vaccination then easing should be quicker.

 

If you ease but still lots of unvaccinated people then risk is rates go up and all that this would entail.

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6 minutes ago, Boris said:

I think the reasoning is easing lockdown in line with the rate of vaccination.

 

The more vaccination then easing should be quicker.

 

If you ease but still lots of unvaccinated people then risk is rates go up and all that this would entail.

Why is so difficult to understand, that with more people out and about (especially non vaxxed) the more chance of mutation.  And the Coronavirus kicking the vaccine's ***** in. 

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JudyJudyJudy
10 minutes ago, Boris said:

I think the reasoning is easing lockdown in line with the rate of vaccination.

 

The more vaccination then easing should be quicker.

 

If you ease but still lots of unvaccinated people then risk is rates go up and all that this would entail.

I can see your point but in a month or so time the most vulnerable will be double jabbed so it’s unlikely hospital admissions and deaths will increase . Yes people will still catch the virus but they will be the healthy ones so won’t impact on them much 

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Nobody wants to be left in a different lockdown while seeing England out of theirs.  But you need to look past the naive logic of assuming there's no purpose other than too much caution or control freakery.  The SG are clearly going to use England as a canary in the mine.  The SG also sees the same advice from SAGE as the Westminster lot.  Let's all hope the SG aren't proved to be right after England begins to open up because I don't like the look of this trajectory.

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49 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Totally agree, but their roadmap based on data gives people hope. 

The data is starting to look good and hopefully for them, the reopening of schools doesn't have a negative effect

I'd imagine the re-opening of schools themselves will have a negative impact, but will be offset by the wider positive impacts of the vaccination programme.

 

It may be that I just can't find it, but I don't see any 'set' data targets from the Govt. on behalf of England that we can say it is truly data based, such as the SG is publishing with it's tiering.  

 

But that's not to say that on the face of it an improvement approach, any improvement data approach won't work, or set targets will.

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31 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

I can see your point but in a month or so time the most vulnerable will be double jabbed so it’s unlikely hospital admissions and deaths will increase . Yes people will still catch the virus but they will be the healthy ones so won’t impact on them much 

You know how viruses mutate. Sorry I read your post and you obviously don't. 

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14 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

You know how viruses mutate. Sorry I read your post and you obviously don't. 

 

I'm not that clear on it if I'm being honest. How do they mutate?

 

Edit: I'll look it up to save you typing it out. I was being lazy 

Edited by Taffin
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JudyJudyJudy
1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

I'm not that clear on it if I'm being honest. How do they mutate?

Yes I’d like to hear our resident epidemiologists explanation of how they “ mutate “ ? However even me with my apparent low level of brain power ( according to one specific person on this ) is aware that they do mutate but it doesn’t make them more deadly just more transmittable.     

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My worry is the Scottish government give out the tier numbers based on the testing numbers when really it should be on hospital numbers and deaths surely? 
 

They have said from day one Protect the NHS and save life’s. 
So if numbers are really low in hospitals and deaths are really low then surely doesn’t make sense to stay locked up if the younger generation are all testing positive for it but show no signs and aren’t that ill with it 

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I am OK with restrictions being eased at the same pace as the vaccine rollout. We’ve come this far, let’s not **** it up and allow a new variant to form that the vaccine could be less effective against.

 

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JudyJudyJudy
3 minutes ago, theshed said:

My worry is the Scottish government give out the tier numbers based on the testing numbers when really it should be on hospital numbers and deaths surely? 
 

They have said from day one Protect the NHS and save life’s. 
So if numbers are really low in hospitals and deaths are really low then surely doesn’t make sense to stay locked up if the younger generation are all testing positive for it but show no signs and aren’t that ill with it 

Yes you would think that 

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JudyJudyJudy

Well First ministers questions should be lively this afternoon . I only hope that there is a similar furore like last week and it’s back to the drawing board for the Govt re tiers etc . 

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3 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:


@ri Alban quickly googling the answer in angered frenzy.  

 

From what I understand a virus mutates after entering the body and it starting to spread. It spreads in the body by essentially attaching itself to your cells and then multiplying to spread to more cells through the body. Sometimes when it doing it copying to spread it picks up something from dna and it may alter slightly it’s genetic sequencing. 

 

Its a shit ton more complex that that but my simple brain like to simplify very complex things, 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

No matter what there will be hosts that this virus will infect animal or human, so mutations will occur. 
 

 


I think the longer the virus is in a host the higher chance of mutation. Some research suggested the higher your BMI the higher the chance of being a super soaker because it’ll take longer to fight the virus off. Which also gives more chance of mutation.

 

Because they are going through the age groups, there could be many in their 20s and 30s who’s BMI falls into that category. The more we wait until as many have been vaccinated the less chance these potential super spreaders and mutators have of catching it. 

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3 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:


@ri Alban quickly googling the answer in angered frenzy.  

 

From what I understand a virus mutates after entering the body and it starting to spread. It spreads in the body by essentially attaching itself to your cells and then multiplying to spread to more cells through the body. Sometimes when it doing it copying to spread it picks up something from dna and it may alter slightly it’s genetic sequencing. 

 

Its a shit ton more complex that that but my simple brain like to simplify very complex things, 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

No matter what there will be hosts that this virus will infect animal or human, so mutations will occur. 
 

 

 

I just started having a read about it as it's not something I have any understanding of.

 

Coronavirus don't undergo reassortment, instead they recombine as they don't have segmented genomes, antigenic shift, antigenic drift...it's too much for me.

 

I'll happily declare I don't understand it and go with what you've written as I can get my head around that. Cheers 👍👍

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13 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes I’d like to hear our resident epidemiologists explanation of how they “ mutate “ ? However even me with my apparent low level of brain power ( according to one specific person on this ) is aware that they do mutate but it doesn’t make them more deadly just more transmittable.     

 

The Kent variant is more deadly.

 

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1 hour ago, Boris said:

I think the reasoning is easing lockdown in line with the rate of vaccination.

 

The more vaccination then easing should be quicker.

 

If you ease but still lots of unvaccinated people then risk is rates go up and all that this would entail.


Absolutely but a huge amount of the adult population will be vaccinated by he end of April. We will be way past the stage of protecting the vulnerable and the NHS by that stage. The rates will go up but hospitalisations and deaths won’t shoot up like before. The whole point of the vaccination is getting to a point we’re we live with this like we do many other illnesses not hide behind our sofas. I struggle to see the logic of making the levels stricter at a time we have never been better equipped to deal with it. 

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Lord Montpelier
1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Well First ministers questions should be lively this afternoon . I only hope that there is a similar furore like last week and it’s back to the drawing board for the Govt re tiers etc . 

My view , parliament should be voting on this sort of thing now (and if it is, I stand corrected). Appreciate early doors last year that couldn't happen . 

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Enzo Chiefo
1 hour ago, Nucky Thompson said:

People should be contacting their MSP's and kicking up a stink.

The Scottish media should rip into them on a daily basis.

England start getting freedom from 12th April and we go from lockdown A to lockdown B on 26th April.

It's just bullshit 

tbh NT, it's a toss of the coin whether the wee vaccine denier Sturgeon or the levels system will go first. No chance the public or business will accept being at the mercy of her control- freakery, just so she can run down the clock to an election.

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2 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

It's people just shrugging their shoulders and accepting it that I can't understand.

 

Let's see if she runs with this all the way up until the elections. No chance imo 

 

Recent history would suggest that when England open things up a fortnight ahead of Scotland, it doesn't work out too well for them. Seeing what happens down there first is a fairly prudent strategy.

 

 

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JudyJudyJudy
12 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

My view , parliament should be voting on this sort of thing now (and if it is, I stand corrected). Appreciate early doors last year that couldn't happen . 

Yes one would think this in a parliamentary democracy . 

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JudyJudyJudy
1 minute ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Recent history would suggest that when England open things up a fortnight ahead of Scotland, it doesn't work out too well for them. Seeing what happens down there first is a fairly prudent strategy.

 

 

I’d agree but I’d respect this Govt more if they honestly admitted that but there’s zero chance of that 

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JudyJudyJudy
1 minute ago, Lord BJ said:

 

 

Im not sure they should. My concern is politics would overtake health concerns, which is an accusation some would level already, 

 

There does seem broad support from all parties at Holyrood for the strategy, with some grey areas around edges about better performance around testing etc, 

 

That said a bit more scrutiny around the strategies certainly wouldn’t do any harm, 

Where have you been politics has already taken over health concerns for quite some time 

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22 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

My view , parliament should be voting on this sort of thing now (and if it is, I stand corrected). Appreciate early doors last year that couldn't happen . 

 

Completely agree.

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