Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Enzo Chiefo]

39 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

And we've got every place slinging the slavering charlatan a rubber lug.

 

They practically give those MPhil and DPhils away free with bags of crisps.

A wire brush and a bottle of Dettol would cure MPhil and DPhil would it not, Guv? 

[Enzo Chiefo]

52 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

She has an MPhil and DPhil in Global Economic Governance from Oxford and is part of the Scottish Government's advisory group. She has every place commenting on these matters. 

No she doesn't.  Advisers should be "advising" and not commenting on constitutional and economic matters that they know little about. A bit of humility would be well received rather than the patronising tosh that she regularly imparts on lockdowns and furlough.

[tian447]

1 hour ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Aye, I meant that you could cross the border without having to take the main A1 past Berwick 

 

There's also a B road between Cornhill and Kelso. I had a drive along it last year

 

The one that always floods?  Think I've only ever been able to drive along it once or twice in total 

 

Slightly related, and something I've always wondered about.  Just as you come out of Cornhill, the road is in England, with the river immediately on your right.  However, about half a mile along that road, the road starts to deviate away from the river, to go around the outskirts of a field.  That field is actually in Scotland, but only for a couple of hundred yards.  There's even a boundary in the field which separates England and Scotland:

 

 

 

[Governor Tarkin]

18 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

A wire brush and a bottle of Dettol would cure MPhil and DPhil would it not, Guv? 

 

I can't comment Enzo. It's poor form to pronnounce on matters outwith your knowledge or remit. Ms Sridhar take note.

[manaliveits105]

It’s a “they” joke 

but you both didn’t get it 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by manaliveits105

[Ray Gin]

17 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

No she doesn't.  Advisers should be "advising" and not commenting on constitutional and economic matters that they know little about. A bit of humility would be well received rather than the patronising tosh that she regularly imparts on lockdowns and furlough.

 

You are beyond parody. An Oxford doctorate in Global Economic Governance but she knows little about economic matters, and should somehow be advising without making any comments. Priceless.

[Dennis Reynolds]

[Enzo Chiefo]

16 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

You are beyond parody. An Oxford doctorate in Global Economic Governance but she knows little about economic matters, and should somehow be advising without making any comments. Priceless.

Do you know the difference between the verbs, comment and advise?? Making patronising comments, opinions with no supporting evidence, about lifting lockdown in March...and passing them off as facts, is outwith her remit. Ditto her nonsense about how independence would have been beneficial to our approach to Covid. As a side issue, it may be better if the SG were advised by an epidemiologist.

[Beni]

If Devi Sridhar isn't allowed to comment on economic matters in spite of her qualifications in...er economics, then the resident sceptics are going to be absolutely raging when the find out what their guru Heneghan said before the first lockdown.

 

"Lockdown is going to bankrupt all of us and our descendants and is unlikely at this point to slow or halt viral circulation as the genie is out of the bottle"

 

Not only is he not qualified to predict what will or won't bankrupt the country, even worse he was wrong on his supposed area of expertise (epidemiology).

Not much sign of his much vaunted evidence based approach on show.

 

Still, Devi, boooooo.

[Ray Gin]

3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Do you know the difference between the verbs, comment and advise?? Making patronising comments, opinions with no supporting evidence, about lifting lockdown in March...and passing them off as facts, is outwith her remit. Ditto her nonsense about how independence would have been beneficial to our approach to Covid. As a side issue, it may be better if the SG were advised by an epidemiologist.

 

They are advised by a group of experts that includes epidemiologists.

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

If Devi Sridhar isn't allowed to comment on economic matters in spite of her qualifications in...er economics, then the resident sceptics are going to be absolutely raging when the find out what their guru Heneghan said before the first lockdown.

 

"Lockdown is going to bankrupt all of us and our descendants and is unlikely at this point to slow or halt viral circulation as the genie is out of the bottle"

 

Not only is he not qualified to predict what will or won't bankrupt the country, even worse he was wrong on his supposed area of expertise (epidemiology).

Not much sign of his much vaunted evidence based approach on show.

 

Still, Devi, boooooo.

 

You don’t have to be an economy experts to know that closing down businesses for a significant length of tong  would have an effect on the economy ! 

[Brighton Jambo]

Those of you defending Devi Sridhar are so wide of the mark on this one.

 

The public must have faith in the advice of these experts and the minute you become political you lose the buy in of half the people which is dangerous and risks lives.

 

Where the UK govt have had Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance who offer sober data driven advice that no one can accuse of being overtly political we have her.  Her criticism of the UK government has been as relentless as her praise of the Scottish government despite very similar approaches.  Whether it’s fair or not her reputation as a neutral expert is tainted and that shouldnt be.  See below 

[Victorian]

11 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

If Devi Sridhar isn't allowed to comment on economic matters in spite of her qualifications in...er economics, then the resident sceptics are going to be absolutely raging when the find out what their guru Heneghan said before the first lockdown.

 

"Lockdown is going to bankrupt all of us and our descendants and is unlikely at this point to slow or halt viral circulation as the genie is out of the bottle"

 

Not only is he not qualified to predict what will or won't bankrupt the country, even worse he was wrong on his supposed area of expertise (epidemiology).

Not much sign of his much vaunted evidence based approach on show.

 

Still, Devi, boooooo.

 

 

Shhh... you'll ruin the confirmation bias fluffy pink cloud world.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Victorian

[Enzo Chiefo]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

You don’t have to be an economy experts to know that closing down businesses for a significant length of tong  would have an effect on the economy ! 

And you don't see Heneghan on the main news channels on a daily basis. Along with the far more experienced and qualified Hugh Pennington,  sidelined by the SG because he's not "independence minded", their views are rarely heard. Devi, on the other hand, is forever spouting on one channel or the other and regularly uses the "elimination" word, a strategy that, according to some of our resident "experts" isn't being pursued by the SG

[Brighton Jambo]

6 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Shhh... you'll ruin the confirmation bias fluffy pink cloud world.

In case you missed it....

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Brighton Jambo said:

In case you missed it....

 

No I didn't miss this from the Mail on Sunday.  No political agenda there then.  

[Dennis Reynolds]

7 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

And you don't see Heneghan on the main news channels on a daily basis. Along with the far more experienced and qualified Hugh Pennington,  sidelined by the SG because he's not "independence minded", their views are rarely heard. Devi, on the other hand, is forever spouting on one channel or the other and regularly uses the "elimination" word, a strategy that, according to some of our resident "experts" isn't being pursued by the SG

 

Or because they've both been consistently wrong.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/01/no-evidence-suggest-coronavirus-second-wave-coming/

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12559226/no-second-wave-coronavirus-just-testing-more/

[Beni]

11 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

You don’t have to be an economy experts to know that closing down businesses for a significant length of tong  would have an effect on the economy ! 

 

Very true, but the Professor for Evidence Based Medicine predicted bankruptcy, not much room for nuance there.

As of now it's not happened to any country, let alone a wealthy one. I've not seen anyone downplay the serious economic cost of lockdowns, but judgement calls had to be made to find the least worst option.

[sadj]

2 hours ago, weehammy said:

I believe you’re supposed to refer to yourself as ‘they’ these days!
 

Edit : forgot to reply to this for ranting below 🙈

 

Its Him/He/they/them/her/she/tree/orange/peregrine falcon/dog etc. List is endless

6 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

In case you missed it....

Might be missing something Brighton is it the larger text in the middle they have taken and used as English to blame for spreading Covid or does she specifically say English people spread covid. 
 

the larger text in the middle is accurate surely. Out borders are a WM remitand NI and Scotland had pushed the limit of what they could do to stop community transmission but because they cant go further and close borders without WM permission they are at risk from people coming in from other areas including England and Wales. The context of that last part is unknown ao it could be they are talking specifically about the UK in which case that is a fair comment

Edited February 11, 2021 by sadj

[Seymour M Hersh]

6 hours ago, sadj said:

Cleo?

 

 

[Brighton Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

No I didn't miss this from the Mail on Sunday.  No political agenda there then.  

Doesn’t matter, she gets tainted with that because her comments take on a political angle.  She is highly critical of UK government and not critical at all of Scottish government and then says silly things like that.

 

I haven’t seen Chris Whitty saying anything like that have you?

 

And so now she has put herself in as position where half of Scotland don’t trust a word she says.  

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, sadj said:

 

Might be missing something Brighton is it the larger text in the middle they have taken and used as English to blame for spreading Covid or does she specifically say English people spread covid. 
 

the larger text in the middle is accurate surely. Out borders are a WM remitand NI and Scotland had pushed the limit of what they could do to stop community transmission but because they cant go further and close borders without WM permission they are at risk from people coming in from other areas including England and Wales. The context of that last part is unknown ao it could be they are talking specifically about the UK in which case that is a fair comment

 

Shhh... you'll ruin the delusion of accurate and impartial publishing.

[sadj]

Just now, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

 

No no this is Cleo

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Doesn’t matter, she gets tainted with that because her comments take on a political angle.  She is highly critical of UK government and not critical at all of Scottish government and then says silly things like that.

 

I haven’t seen Chris Whitty saying anything like that have you?

 

And so now she has put herself in as position where half of Scotland don’t trust a word she says.  

 

Prof. Devi is not a government employee.  Whitty is.  

 

Next.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Just now, sadj said:

No no this is Cleo

 

Is that one of the rugby commentator's (Cotter) pooches? That was a terrific video or two he put together. And, as an aside the best rugby commentator bar none since the late great Bill McLaren.

[Brighton Jambo]

4 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Shhh... you'll ruin the delusion of accurate and impartial publishing.

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,devi-sridhar-an-independent-scotland-wouldve-done-better-against-covid  
 

So do you think these comments are also helpful in securing the support and buy in of the Scottish people?  Or is Holyrood news right wing bias as well.

 

Your defence of this woman as an honest and impartial advisor is truly laughable.  

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

8 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

When will australia allow their citizens to travel home?

 

 

That is the bloody challenge. Some hysterical people are saying that Aussies shouldn't be allowed to return. Apparently, circa 40,000 people want to return and hotel quarantine is seeing leaks across the country due to the new variants. Victoria is now upping PPE so that N95 masks are going to be used in the "cold hotels" (those returning who initially test negative) as well as the "hot hotel" (where the Covid positive returnees get moved to), since airborne transmission is now such a proven risk.

[Victorian]

Just now, Brighton Jambo said:

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,devi-sridhar-an-independent-scotland-wouldve-done-better-against-covid  
 

So do you think these comments are also helpful in securing the support and buy in of the Scottish people?  Or is Holyrood news right wing bias as well.

 

Your defence of this woman as an honest and impartial advisor is truly laughable.  

 

I have never,  ever claimed impartiality of her.  She's open and up front about her politics.  Honest,  in other words.

 

Next.

[Ray Gin]

2 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,devi-sridhar-an-independent-scotland-wouldve-done-better-against-covid  
 

So do you think these comments are also helpful in securing the support and buy in of the Scottish people?  Or is Holyrood news right wing bias as well.

 

Your defence of this woman as an honest and impartial advisor is truly laughable.  

 

She's spot on.

[sadj]

8 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Is that one of the rugby commentator's (Cotter) pooches? That was a terrific video or two he put together. And, as an aside the best rugby commentator bar none since the late great Bill McLaren.

Na thats my pooch...the most photogenic wee poser ever. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by sadj

[Beni]

28 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

And you don't see Heneghan on the main news channels on a daily basis. Along with the far more experienced and qualified Hugh Pennington,  sidelined by the SG because he's not "independence minded", their views are rarely heard. Devi, on the other hand, is forever spouting on one channel or the other and regularly uses the "elimination" word, a strategy that, according to some of our resident "experts" isn't being pursued by the SG

 

The same Carl Heneghan who was so badly sidelined that he was able to meet Boris Johnson and RuIshi Sunak, and talk them out of an autumn circuit breaker lockdown as advised by Sage?

That Carl Heneghan?

 

Of course subsequent events have shown Heneghan's 'evedince based' approach of 2nd wave denial to be bollocks, resulting in a longer lockdown with more deaths than if he had been sidelined.

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/14/herd-immunity-boris-johnson-coronavirus

 

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by fancy a brew

[Brighton Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

She's spot on.

What do you think an independent Scotlands vaccination percentage would be right now if it were either independent in or outside the EU? 
 

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 minute ago, sadj said:

Na thats my pooch...the most photogenic wee poser ever. 

 

Nice garden. You'll be fine for a holiday destination this summer. 

[Victorian]

So... time to move Heneghan from the pedestal of heroism into the shoe box that we keep in the cupboard under the stairs.  The one we don't talk about?

[sadj]

4 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Nice garden. You'll be fine for a holiday destination this summer. 

Exs folks place unfortunately. He set up an oil company many years ago. You could drive a golf ball from where the house is and not reach the end of the garden. 
 

Anyway sorry back to the SNP bashing , BJ rules chat. How dare we go back off topic  🤣

Edited February 11, 2021 by sadj

[Ray Gin]

3 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

What do you think an independent Scotlands vaccination percentage would be right now if it were either independent in or outside the EU? 
 

 

 

What value would me, or anyone, plucking a hypothetical number out of nowhere have? 

[DETTY29]

From the briefing today one thing on vaccinations may come back to bite the SG, FM is the data of elderley care homes vaccinated, which is quoted as 99.8%.

 

Start of last week NHS Lothian said 92% vaccinated, 7% couldn't as they are covid positive and 1% refused.

 

ONS have put out their weekly stats for 07 Feb for England.  They state 93% eligible first dose vaccinated, but due to current Covid positivity rates in these care homes, real figure is 84% first dose vaccinated.

 

For 80s+ same date comparison as closest cohort target date, Scotland 94.71%, England 91.26%.

 

Note of caution, Scotland population data is based on 2020 requests NHS Scotland Health Boards, England on ONS 2019 mid year estimate.

 

Still excellent take up all round.

 

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by DETTY29

[Brighton Jambo]

3 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

What value would me, or anyone, plucking a hypothetical number out of nowhere have? 

Fair point let’s come at this another way. Are you prepared to admit that being part of the United Kingdom has been a real benefit in terms of the number of vaccines we have in Scotland and as result how many people we have vaccinated as a percentage of population compared to almost every other country in the world?

Edited February 11, 2021 by Brighton Jambo

[Victorian]

The union does benefit Scotland in terms of the vaccine.  Never seen anyone argue otherwise.  

 

Is that one of those implied political arguments that get imposed on the other side,  despite it having never been argued?  

[Gards]

18 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

That is the bloody challenge. Some hysterical people are saying that Aussies shouldn't be allowed to return. Apparently, circa 40,000 people want to return and hotel quarantine is seeing leaks across the country due to the new variants. Victoria is now upping PPE so that N95 masks are going to be used in the "cold hotels" (those returning who initially test negative) as well as the "hot hotel" (where the Covid positive returnees get moved to), since airborne transmission is now such a proven risk.

It's interesting Geoff as I expect the UK government haven't gone down the route of 'hot' and 'cold' hotels based on positivy of cases.....just another thing we seem to think we can figure out on our own and not liaise with those countries who have implemented such measures.

[Brighton Jambo]

4 minutes ago, Victorian said:

The union does benefit Scotland in terms of the vaccine.  Never seen anyone argue otherwise.  

 

Is that one of those implied political arguments that get imposed on the other side,  despite it having never been argued?  

You are a reasonable poster and I know you would see that.  My point is not that there has been criticism but whether some posters have the honestly to acknowledge that in some respects being part of the union has been an advantage during this pandemic and in other respects  a disadvantage.  
 

You are not a WM all bad poster so wasn’t aiming it at you.  

[Brighton Jambo]

10 minutes ago, Gards said:

It's interesting Geoff as I expect the UK government haven't gone down the route of 'hot' and 'cold' hotels based on positivy of cases.....just another thing we seem to think we can figure out on our own and not liaise with those countries who have implemented such measures.

I agree with this.  It must have taken Australia and NZ ages and plenty of iterations to get in right so why haven’t we just lifted and dropped their plans.  Take advantage of all that learning.  If we don’t it would be ridiculous, which is probably what will happen! 

[Victorian]

Just now, Brighton Jambo said:

You are a reasonable poster and I know you would see that.  My point is not that there has been criticism but whether some posters have the honestly to acknowledge that in some respects being part of the union has been an advantage during this pandemic and in other respects  a disadvantage.  
 

You are not a WM all bad poster so wasn’t aiming it at you.  

 

It's true.  There's no point trying to pretend otherwise when something is so obvious.  

 

The think tank of sensible and strategic scepticism might like to talk some notes.  Genuine critical thought is achieved by paying equal notice and placing equal potential validity upon the things that both support and challenge existing beliefs,  as well as recognising truths that challenge political persuasions.

 

 

[Brighton Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

But she is not in the employment of the Scottish Government nor does she appear at official briefings on Covid. She is an independent advisor and surely that independence is best served by allowing her to have freedom of speech. 
 

Whitty’s equivalent is Dr Gregor Smith

Yeah, it’s a fair point that I made a mistake comparing her to Whitty given the different nature of their roles.

 

You are also right that she is free to express opinion but I just feel being so explicit on topics like an independent Scotland could do better is clearly going to alienate half of the population and I can’t help feel that is counter productive during a pandemic when we want the views of experts, which she is, to be listened to and followed.  Just feel there are some things she could and should hold back until this is all over.  

[Footballfirst]

18 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

Anyone know what the first email address of getting no where was?

 

Father in law sill hasn’t had letter and according to GP and helpline he doesn’t exist as isn’t on any list. He’s definitely alive and grouchy but mother in law and wife both been on phone twice and got nowhere either. 
 

The mother in law is losing the plot to the wife and I have just been moaned at for 10 min by the wife 😡

 

 

From the Hootsman

 

Ms Sturgeon said that if people couldn’t get an answer to their question in any other way, then to contact her [email protected] address

 

She said: “Don't do it if you can find it in another way because obviously we get lots of emails – and not my constituency – but there will be people who for one reason or another [get in touch].

"I’ve had cases emailed to me of, for example, someone who has just moved house and hadn’t registered with a new GP … there will be a multitude of situations where individuals have not got an appointment.

 

[email protected]

or 

https://firstminister.gov.scot/join/first-minister-postbag/

Edited February 11, 2021 by Footballfirst

[Victorian]

9 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Yeah, it’s a fair point that I made a mistake comparing her to Whitty given the different nature of their roles.

 

You are also right that she is free to express opinion but I just feel being so explicit on topics like an independent Scotland could do better is clearly going to alienate half of the population and I can’t help feel that is counter productive during a pandemic when we want the views of experts, which she is, to be listened to and followed.  Just feel there are some things she could and should hold back until this is all over.  

 

Then she wouldn't be fully honest with and to herself.  You wanted honesty.  If people are alienated by unrelated political leanings then it's their fault,  not hers.

[Brighton Jambo]

5 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Then she wouldn't be fully honest with and to herself.  You wanted honesty.  If people are alienated by unrelated political leanings then it's their fault,  not hers.

It’s not about being honest or not.  Why talk about it at all in the middle of a pandemic.  What possible benefit to public health can there be to speculate (which is all it is) about a hypothetical view that Scotland would have done better if independent.  It’s absolutely totally not needed and adds nothing at all to the challenge we face here and now.  It’s irresponsible in my opinion.  

[Brighton Jambo]

8 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

I think she sees the UK gov as a direct block to the policy of elimination she was advocating from the start. If you consider it in that context it makes her views more understandable. Also that article did sensationalise her views massively with few quotes from her and very little context. 
 

We have seen the media on all sides lose their shit over nothing during this pandemic. 
 

BTW As a wee aside, I feel your pain regarding holidays. We were very lucky to get away to Greece last summer, however I don’t think the travel windows were a good idea. Hopefully we can all get some decent weather again this spring and maybe get some we breaks in the summer. 

The thing for me about holidays is not that we should all rush abroad as I accept that this year that might be a sacrifice we have to make it’s the view from some people that any form of holiday is an absolute luxury that people shouldn’t be talking about. 
 

For many people who have been absolutely knocking their pan in for a year in hugely difficult circumstances the opportunity for a break from it all is probably one of the main things keeping them going.  A proper break from the stresses of work and home life is not some nice to have it’s an essential part of many peoples mental and physical well-being especially after a year like this.  

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

43 minutes ago, Gards said:

It's interesting Geoff as I expect the UK government haven't gone down the route of 'hot' and 'cold' hotels based on positivy of cases.....just another thing we seem to think we can figure out on our own and not liaise with those countries who have implemented such measures.

Well, given Victoria screwed up hotel quarantine and that led to our second wave and lockdown, there is a lot of pressure to get it bloody right.

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, fancy a brew said:

If Devi Sridhar isn't allowed to comment on economic matters in spite of her qualifications in...er economics, then the resident sceptics are going to be absolutely raging when the find out what their guru Heneghan said before the first lockdown.

 

"Lockdown is going to bankrupt all of us and our descendants and is unlikely at this point to slow or halt viral circulation as the genie is out of the bottle"

 

Not only is he not qualified to predict what will or won't bankrupt the country, even worse he was wrong on his supposed area of expertise (epidemiology).

Not much sign of his much vaunted evidence based approach on show.

 

Still, Devi, boooooo.

 

You just need to have an ounce of common sense to know that the country cannot sustain throwing money at all and sundry indefinitely.  It has to be paid back and will be, by future generations.  As for Sridhar, her comments should be treated with a large degree of scepticism as she is fond of pursuing a political agenda that most other "experts " choose not to. Her elimination strategy has already been superseded by Whitty and Vallance confirming that the virus will be endemic. You can turn yourself into a hermit country or just embrace the strategy and realise that there will be cases, spread and illness but, life goes on.