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13 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Just checked it again. He was travelling from Norway. The report also said that the Govt has still to give out more details about exemptions. 

 

Ok, thanks.

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Sensible sceptics,  both real ones and pretend ones,  should check out your ally Sir Charles Walker's argument today.  He makes a lot of excellent points regarding the future and how the public health effects of CV are finally accepted into normal life.  He's right.  There does have to be a point where we move on and accept a level of CV deaths,  etc.  He seems to suggest the time is now.  I think he's wrong or premature.  His C4 News rant was compelling but he's ignoring the crucial question regarding whether or not it's possible to move on now in order to keep a lid on the epidemic and to prevent harmful variants becoming dominant enough to threaten vaccination plans.  Professor Devi slam dunked him by carefully explaining why it's too soon to know when we move on.  She makes an equally compelling case for normal life being possible if we trade off summer holidays.

 

We do need to move on and welcome CV into the basket of hazards we face every day in life.  The scientists are still working on finding out when that happens.  

Edited by Victorian
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Lord Beni of Gorgie
1 hour ago, sadj said:

If he is employed by a company then they will be paying it. Most oil companies have already been doing this.  
 

@Sir Gio maybe you can enlighten us a bit.

Yeah, we've got divers that have their own protocols. Into the bubble tested and then offshore, they are essential workers 

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Lord Beni of Gorgie
13 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Sensible sceptics,  both real ones and pretend ones,  should check out your ally Sir Charles Walker's argument today.  He makes a lot of excellent points regarding the future and how the public health effects of CV are finally accepted into normal life.  He's right.  There does have to be a point where we move on and accept a level of CV deaths,  etc.  He seems to suggest the time is now.  I think he's wrong or premature.  His C4 News rant was compelling but he's ignoring the crucial question regarding whether or not it's possible to move on now in order to keep a lid on the epidemic and to prevent harmful variants becoming dominant enough to threaten vaccination plans.  Professor Devi slam dunked him by carefully explaining why it's too soon to know when we move on.  She makes an equally compelling case for normal life being possible if we trade off summer holidays.

 

We do need to move on and welcome CV into the basket of hazards we face every day in life.  The scientists are still working on finding out when that happens.  

Devi should stick to health, her Twitter account is rather loaded, wouldn't trust her personally. 

 

Prefer to listen to Hugh Pennington, very well balanced without the political nuances. Linda Bauld appears trustworthy also

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1 minute ago, Sir Gio said:

Devi should stick to health, her Twitter account is rather loaded, wouldn't trust her personally. 

 

Prefer to listen to Hugh Pennington, very well balanced without the political nuances. Linda Bauld appears trustworthy also

 

Not sure what you mean by stick to health.  She's a high ranking public health academic and CV is a public health matter.  She's rather more expert than Sir Charles Walker.  Devi Sridhar is no political actor either.

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manaliveits105
59 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

The wife told me today Lothian 8.3% today, no idea where she getting number from and no idea how compares to else where. Lothian think Edinburgh lowest and East Lothian highest but all around 7-9% according to her

 

Hope not the weeg was just under 20%

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Lord Beni of Gorgie
2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Not sure what you mean by stick to health.  She's a high ranking public health academic and CV is a public health matter.  She's rather more expert than Sir Charles Walker.  Devi Sridhar is no political actor either.

You should read more of her Twitter account. Quite opinionated 

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Just now, Sir Gio said:

You should read more of her Twitter account. Quite opinionated 

 

She can have opinions about anything but she has no official position to be allied to the government or any party.  She's contradicted SG policy on a number of occasions.

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Lord Beni of Gorgie
2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

She can have opinions about anything but she has no official position to be allied to the government or any party.  She's contradicted SG policy on a number of occasions.

I prefer these professionals to stick to facts and medicine. 

 

That way, personally I feel I can trust them. 

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Just now, Sir Gio said:

I prefer these professionals to stick to facts and medicine. 

 

That way, personally I feel I can trust them. 

 

Nobody is wholly bereft of personal political opinions or alliances.  Whether that be open or kept private.  

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Konrad von Carstein
2 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Work for 3 weeks.

Quarantine for 2 weeks on the way home.

Home for a week.

Work for 3 weeks.

Etc.

 

Aye sound.

 

Bear in mind that a lot of countries these (us) guys work in will require a fortnights quarantine on the way to work also, and you can see how this is basically unworkable.

 

The global O&G industry is a big employer in Jockland due to our extensive experience and expertise. Herr Stugeron will need to come up with some exceptions to the rules or it's another industry thrown under the bus. 

 

Think of it as part of a new Green Dividend, of which we need more of IMO :)

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1 hour ago, Sir Gio said:

I prefer these professionals to stick to facts and medicine. 

 

That way, personally I feel I can trust them. 

 

She thinks it's the virus and not the restrictions causing economic damage.

 

Now, the virus forcing the restrictions and in turn causing economic damage I can accept. Saying it's not the restrictions causing the damage is just idiotic. With that in mind I'd take what she has to say with a major pinch of salt, she's evidently pushing an agenda. If restrictions are eased next month we'll also see whether she's a clairvoyant as she assures us if that happens at a UK level they'll be back in lockdown by April.

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1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

She thinks it's the virus and not the restrictions causing economic damage.

 

Now, the virus forcing the restrictions and in turn causing economic damage I can accept. Saying it's not the restrictions causing the damage is just idiotic. With that in mind I'd take what she has to say with a major pinch of salt, she's evidently pushing an agenda. If restrictions are eased next month we'll also see whether she's a clairvoyant as she assures us if that happens at a UK level they'll be back in lockdown by April.

She’s a havverer 

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43 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

She thinks it's the virus and not the restrictions causing economic damage.

 

Now, the virus forcing the restrictions and in turn causing economic damage I can accept. Saying it's not the restrictions causing the damage is just idiotic. With that in mind I'd take what she has to say with a major pinch of salt, she's evidently pushing an agenda. If restrictions are eased next month we'll also see whether she's a clairvoyant as she assures us if that happens at a UK level they'll be back in lockdown by April.

It's root cause and symptoms, consequence analysis.

 

The only arguement against the virus not being the root cause is the ineptness of our politicians to deal with.

 

No virus, we wouldn't be in this state.

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51 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

She thinks it's the virus and not the restrictions causing economic damage.

 

Now, the virus forcing the restrictions and in turn causing economic damage I can accept. Saying it's not the restrictions causing the damage is just idiotic. With that in mind I'd take what she has to say with a major pinch of salt, she's evidently pushing an agenda. If restrictions are eased next month we'll also see whether she's a clairvoyant as she assures us if that happens at a UK level they'll be back in lockdown by April.

She's a political activist and a Biologist. Quite why that makes her qualified to effectively manage Scotland's response to Covid, only Nicola Sturgeon will know. Her regular political interventions about Boris and furlough etc don't do her any favours.

Her comments about lockdown again in April are as hysterical as they are ludicrous. I would prefer to listen to Prof Andrew Pollard of the Oxford Vaccine Group who acknowledged new "super strains" may emerge in future but questioned "whether it matters" if people were not getting so sick they didn't become hospitalised, "if people have just got the sniffles, then I think our job is done". Devi seems to think we need lockdown to stop transmission at that point, obviously has a taste for population control measures because there would be no human, moral or scientific reason for it.

 

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3 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

BBC Glasgow give out a few figures for % vaccinated per region including Glasgow and Strathclyde but don’t bother with Lothians figure - have we managed to catch up a bit with mass vaccinations now ?

 

 

20210210_220556.jpg

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Footballfirst
34 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

20210210_220556.jpg

That's interesting information. The higher percentages are in the NHS Board areas with the smallest populations so shouldn't really be used for comparison with the more populous areas.

 

The NHS Board populations for the biggest areas are (the %ages quoted are for people aged >16):

Greater Glasgow and Clyde : 1.18m

Lothian 908k

Lanarkshire : 662k

Grampian : 586k

Tayside : 417k

Fife 373k

Ayrshire : 369k

 

and the smallest:

Orkney 22k

Shetland : 23k

Western Isles : 27k

Edited by Footballfirst
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52 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

It's root cause and symptoms, consequence analysis.

 

The only arguement against the virus not being the root cause is the ineptness of our politicians to deal with.

 

No virus, we wouldn't be in this state.

 

Are the restrictions killing the economy?

 

I don't know how anyone can answer no to that.

 

I'm not saying it's not being forced, or that's it's not necessary, as that's a separate debate.

 

The root cause of why someone runs out of food is important in itself...however, the cause of death will still be starvation.

 

As for the bit in bold, take away the virus and leave the restrictions...does the economy recover given its playing no role in its destruction? Of course it doesn't. 

Edited by Taffin
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Weakened Offender
4 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Work for 3 weeks.

Quarantine for 2 weeks on the way home.

Home for a week.

Work for 3 weeks.

Etc.

 

Aye sound.

 

Bear in mind that a lot of countries these (us) guys work in will require a fortnights quarantine on the way to work also, and you can see how this is basically unworkable.

 

The global O&G industry is a big employer in Jockland due to our extensive experience and expertise. Herr Stugeron will need to come up with some exceptions to the rules or it's another industry thrown under the bus. 

 

I imagine they'll just throw the Scottish O&G industry under the first bus that comes along then, seeing as how having oil and gas is bad for Scotland, according to yinyoonists. 😊

 

 

FB_IMG_1612821179674.jpg

Edited by Weakened Offender
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39 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

She's a political activist and a Biologist. Quite why that makes her qualified to effectively manage Scotland's response to Covid, only Nicola Sturgeon will know. Her regular political interventions about Boris and furlough etc don't do her any favours.

Her comments about lockdown again in April are as hysterical as they are ludicrous. I would prefer to listen to Prof Andrew Pollard of the Oxford Vaccine Group who acknowledged new "super strains" may emerge in future but questioned "whether it matters" if people were not getting so sick they didn't become hospitalised, "if people have just got the sniffles, then I think our job is done". Devi seems to think we need lockdown to stop transmission at that point, obviously has a taste for population control measures because there would be no human, moral or scientific reason for it.

 

 

I don't mind her and quite like that she's sharing her opinion and beliefs rather than just facts. She's also clearly a very intelligent and competent professional.

 

I just wish she wouldn't make statements of hyperbolic opinion based as fact as it's makes me doubt what parts are grounded in the data and what parts are just her opinion.

 

It's her opinion that the restrictions play no role in killing the economy, and her opinion that if we lift restrictions in March that we'll be back in lockdown in April. She's no doubt got very good reason for thinking both of those things but just be up front about them being opinion rather than making definitive statements.

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1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

She's a political activist and a Biologist. Quite why that makes her qualified to effectively manage Scotland's response to Covid, only Nicola Sturgeon will know. Her regular political interventions about Boris and furlough etc don't do her any favours.

Her comments about lockdown again in April are as hysterical as they are ludicrous. I would prefer to listen to Prof Andrew Pollard of the Oxford Vaccine Group who acknowledged new "super strains" may emerge in future but questioned "whether it matters" if people were not getting so sick they didn't become hospitalised, "if people have just got the sniffles, then I think our job is done". Devi seems to think we need lockdown to stop transmission at that point, obviously has a taste for population control measures because there would be no human, moral or scientific reason for it.

 

I seriously distrust this woman. She seems intent on a zero covid policy no matter the cost. She also has links to Gates and big pharma companies. 

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33 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Are the restrictions killing the economy?

 

I don't know how anyone can answer no to that.

 

I'm not saying it's not being forced, or that's it's not necessary, as that's a separate debate.

 

The root cause of why someone runs out of food is important in itself...however, the cause of death will still be starvation.

 

As for the bit in bold, take away the virus and leave the restrictions...does the economy recover given its playing no role in its destruction? Of course it doesn't. 

We then don't need the restrictions, because there isn't an event that needs managed on whatever scale. 

 

Edit Why is the world spendings bns on a vaccine, the vaccine is consequence, symptom of the virus.

 

It all goes back to the virus, in whatever format.

 

The virus is the root cause.

Edited by DETTY29
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chuck berrys hairline
1 hour ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

It’s knee trembling stuff.

😉

 

Ah is she the secret lover 

 

Edited by chuck berrys hairline
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3 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

We then don't need the restrictions, because there isn't an event that needs managed on whatever scale.

 

👍👍 Agreed, however it's not what I have issue with/the point I'm making, but you know that already.

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36 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

👍👍 Agreed, however it's not what I have issue with/the point I'm making, but you know that already.

Restrictions are impacting the economy.

 

But the restrictions are there because of the virus.

 

Back to what is the root cause?

 

The virus.

 

Not understanding the root cause and a year on still comparing with the flu is why we are still here.

 

We need to get the virus to a manageable level so restrictions can be lifted.

 

The virus didn't die out in the summer as folk thought, we damn well near broke the chain but didn't have the measures in place to surpress properly.

 

And still don't.

Edited by DETTY29
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I see the usual suspects are out with their Devi bashing.

At least she can point to other countries who adopted a zero covid approach early and are living their lives more freely now than ours, whereas the naysayers can point to...pretty much hee haw. 

 

 

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Geoff Kilpatrick
33 minutes ago, Costanza said:

I see the usual suspects are out with their Devi bashing.

At least she can point to other countries who adopted a zero covid approach early and are living their lives more freely now than ours, whereas the naysayers can point to...pretty much hee haw. 

 

 

There's no way Scotland can achieve a zero Covid approach unless Scotland can shut its borders to the rest of the UK (or somehow convince the rest of the UK to follow the same approach)

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26 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

nobody has a zero covid for long. 

You know I'm going to point to New Zealand here?

Zero Covid isn't getting to no covid at all, it means the case numbers are small enough that you can catch and stop outbreaks occurring.
That goes hand in hand with an effective track, trace , isolation approach and so stops infections becoming widespread and reducing any chance of mutation.
It's not about endless lockdown but about preventing them, which is why I find some of the comments about Devi Sridhar on here completely disingenuous.

That said, I think the zero covid ship sailed last March and we're now in a situation where we restrict transmission until we have about 70% of the population vaccinated and then we can open up more fully.

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13 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

There's no way Scotland can achieve a zero Covid approach unless Scotland can shut its borders to the rest of the UK (or somehow convince the rest of the UK to follow the same approach)

Agree. It should have been a UK wide approach but as I say, that ship sailed last year .

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Geoff Kilpatrick
6 minutes ago, Costanza said:

You know I'm going to point to New Zealand here?

Zero Covid isn't getting to no covid at all, it means the case numbers are small enough that you can catch and stop outbreaks occurring.
That goes hand in hand with an effective track, trace , isolation approach and so stops infections becoming widespread and reducing any chance of mutation.
It's not about endless lockdown but about preventing them, which is why I find some of the comments about Devi Sridhar on here completely disingenuous.

That said, I think the zero covid ship sailed last March and we're now in a situation where we restrict transmission until we have about 70% of the population vaccinated and then we can open up more fully.

The problem you have with that approach, as someone lucky enough to be under it, is that you end up with panic whenever there is a leak. We've had two leaks this week from hotel quarantine and suddenly masks are mandatory indoors again. WA had a leak and had a 5 day lockdown after 10 months virus free. Yes, it is akin to a "first world problem" but it also means people are reluctant to travel interstate, meaning tourism areas, which were screwed during "Covid 1", aren't getting people to return.

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9 hours ago, Lord BJ said:

 

The wife told me today Lothian 8.3% today, no idea where she getting number from and no idea how compares to else where. Lothian think Edinburgh lowest and East Lothian highest but all around 7-9% according to her

 

Fife is the lowest on 14%.

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2 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

There's no way Scotland can achieve a zero Covid approach unless Scotland can shut its borders to the rest of the UK (or somehow convince the rest of the UK to follow the same approach)

True. They had it last July? Down to 2 cases and Priti Patel had backed border closures from April, but 2 others Grant Shapps and some other Minister pushed against. (Boris had covid at the time) 

Now its a bit late, but still necessary. 

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6 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

She's a political activist and a Biologist. Quite why that makes her qualified to effectively manage Scotland's response to Covid, only Nicola Sturgeon will know. Her regular political interventions about Boris and furlough etc don't do her any favours.

Her comments about lockdown again in April are as hysterical as they are ludicrous. I would prefer to listen to Prof Andrew Pollard of the Oxford Vaccine Group who acknowledged new "super strains" may emerge in future but questioned "whether it matters" if people were not getting so sick they didn't become hospitalised, "if people have just got the sniffles, then I think our job is done". Devi seems to think we need lockdown to stop transmission at that point, obviously has a taste for population control measures because there would be no human, moral or scientific reason for it.

 

giphy.gif?cid=82a1493b1uc1lkstr5qjtip7ds

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4 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

The problem you have with that approach, as someone lucky enough to be under it, is that you end up with panic whenever there is a leak. We've had two leaks this week from hotel quarantine and suddenly masks are mandatory indoors again. WA had a leak and had a 5 day lockdown after 10 months virus free. Yes, it is akin to a "first world problem" but it also means people are reluctant to travel interstate, meaning tourism areas, which were screwed during "Covid 1", aren't getting people to return.

Those are allgood points and it isn't a perfect solution but I'd trade those conditions right now!

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4 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

An island, at almost the end of the earth is not similar to the northern part of a bigger island, with many more ins and outs. 

Realistic comparisons are welcome, obvious massive different comparisons will not be usefully helpful.

 

I am not aware of the mentions of Devi Sridar on this thread, I rarely look at it. I know Devi Sridar said Scotland could be Covid free last summer, then it totally wasn't, and is still in her job, and we still have to listen to her opinions, whilst maintaining that the Scottish Govt has retained trust whilst the British one hasn't. 

 

Harder than New Zealand undoubtedly but impossible? We're more self sufficient than Taiwan gor food and they managed it to relatively successful level.

Still to be convinced of a better strategy frankly.

I only mentioned Devi Sridhar as she has been a public advocate of zero covid but criticised unfairly in my opinion in thist thread.

She's has been an advisor rather than a policy maker so don't follow your comment on her job.

A fair point on the Scottish v UK Government though.

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Governor Tarkin
11 hours ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

Think of it as part of a new Green Dividend, of which we need more of IMO :)

 

I actually agree with this. :)

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Governor Tarkin
9 hours ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

I imagine they'll just throw the Scottish O&G industry under the first bus that comes along then, seeing as how having oil and gas is bad for Scotland, according to yinyoonists. 😊

 

 

FB_IMG_1612821179674.jpg

 

If you posted a meme about it then it must be true. :(

 

Shouldn't affect you though. When the real jobs are gone there will still be skips to rake through and gutters to wallow in - although your bankrupt seperatist utopia may yield a bit more by way of competition for the scraps.

 

 

Edited by Governor Tarkin
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Governor Tarkin
3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

giphy.gif?cid=82a1493b1uc1lkstr5qjtip7ds

 

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

giphy.gif

 

Textbook deployment of sarcasm and irony. 👏

 

 

Edited by Governor Tarkin
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Governor Tarkin
6 hours ago, Costanza said:


Zero Covid isn't getting to no covid at all, it means the case numbers are small enough that you can catch and stop outbreaks occurring.
 

 

Thank **** for that. I've got zero bacon in the fridge so that should be just enough for a bacon and egg doubler if I should ever fancy one. 

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9 hours ago, Back to 2005 said:

I seriously distrust this woman. She seems intent on a zero covid policy no matter the cost. She also has links to Gates and big pharma companies. 

Ha ha - proof?

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Just now, The Real Maroonblood said:

Did you get your jag?

I got mine ten days ago 👍

It was Mrs LD that had the appointment for the drive through. 

They started putting more appointments on the system so she got the venue changed for the same day next week. 

Let's hope there are no more computer glitches though it must have been awful for those folk in Fife the other day. 

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