Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

3 minutes ago, OBE said:

Scotland, over 1K infections a day with restrictions. Is there estimates showing what the daily infection rate could be if near normal service was resumed?

 

If current restrictions were lifted, I don't think Scotland has the NHS facilities, or more so, enough qualified personnel to cope with the inevitable increased transmissions.

 

We all want this virus to ***k off, but it thrives on our human instincts, we love to socialise...literally dying for a party...

 

 

 

 

Scottish Government measures obviously not working 

[the general]

21 minutes ago, Dazo said:

I’m the same, been out for a few 4 o’clock meals to support local restaurants but to be honest it’s a shite time and I miss a pint or bottle of wine with my meal. It’s ridiculous that any normal thinking person sees this as the way to go. 

 

And then you see the carnage in shops like Primark and Zara!!!

[GinRummy]

Just now, Ma Roon said:

Scottish Government measures obviously not working 

Neither the scottish government or the uk government seem to have done particularly well. The media just seem to support everything they do.

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Dazo said:

You’re a conformist Vic so you’ll happily go along with whatever measures are in place and push the argument that way. I wonder how you’d feel if you ever did open your own business like you spoke about and it was impacted in such an aggressive manor. Regarding your last comment We aren’t locked down though, everywhere is open.

 

Please don't naively categorise me as a conformist who is happy to conform on the premise of being a conformist.  I conform to the wider strategy because I believe it is largely the correct thing,  albeit a lot of the finer details have contained mistakes.

 

Saying that everywhere is open is a bit strange.  Nowhere in hospitality is open to anything like normal hours or trading abilities.  

[OBE]

1 minute ago, Ma Roon said:

Scottish Government measures obviously not working 

 

I think they have limited hospitalisations to a degree where they are thankfully still manageable.

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, OBE said:

 

I think they have limited hospitalisations to a degree where they are thankfully still manageable.

The death rate is pretty bad uk wide though. It's not just about not overwhelming the NHS.

[Victorian]

24 minutes ago, Ma Roon said:

Scottish Government measures obviously not working 

 

If you're limiting numbers or reducing numbers from the level they would be without measures then the measures obviously are working,  to some degree.

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

Scotland has recorded 4173 death's China has recorded 4634 

Could anyone explain this 

[GinRummy]

Just now, Ma Roon said:

Scotland has recorded 4173 death's China has recorded 4634 

Could anyone explain this 

China not the best example. You make a good point but you've picked the wrong country.

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

5 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

China not the best example. You make a good point but you've picked the wrong country.

Norway with a similar population has 402 deaths 

[Taffin]

Sweden has had a bit of a kicking lately for its approach but despite that it's still done better than the UK in terms of both cases and deaths per 100,000.

 

Now they've increasingly applied more and more measures closer to our own but it's fair to say they've been a lot less strict over the whole year. Can anyone explain why that hasn't led to them performing much worse than the UK?

[GinRummy]

9 minutes ago, Ma Roon said:

Norway with a similar population has 402 deaths 

That is actually incredible  

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

It's easy to deny that the idea is to 'let it rip'.  It's easy to cobble together a set of simple sounding alterative notions to replace the blunt tool of suppression.  Effectively the two are pretty similar.

 

You could formulate and carry out the world's best strategy of shielding the (always misunderstood and under estimated) cohort of those to be shielded,  but reducing the measures of suppression for those remaining will only lead to more spread,  more positive tests,  more self isolation,  more contact traced self isolation,  more absence from work and school,  more parents having to miss work for childcare,  more hospitalisations,  more deaths.

 

Another thing that's easy is to bemoan rising numbers and that lockdowns aren't working.  That locking down is failing to achieve it's purpose.  Try considering what it would be like without suppression measures.  

 

its easy to deny it because people are often pigeon-holed as such when it’s simply not true

 

it is time consuming tho as the scientists proposing alternatives to repeated lockdowns have to spend a good bit of their interviews continually explaining to the vast numbers lacking the understanding why it’s not a let it rip strategy

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

17 minutes ago, Ma Roon said:

Norway with a similar population has 402 deaths 

 

why are they similar - what metrics are you using to conclude this - life expectancy for example is it the same? underlying morbidity are they similar? What else?

 

 

[theshed]

1 hour ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Was out for a meal last Friday.

The meal was good but missed a couple of beers with it.

Just ridiculous. People aren’t going to get smashed.

Non alcoholic Heineken. Pish.

Was on holiday last week so had a couple of days up in Inverness, went for a curry one night and had 3 bottles of beer with it... next night was Italian and shared a bottle of wine. 
 

Back to Edinburgh the next day and stopped off for steak on way home with a nice glass of Diet Coke 🙄🙄

 

Complete joke you can’t have a drink with a meal 

[Taffin]

This was explained to me before but I've forgotten the answer, sorry.

 

Are tests for the virus or the disease? The government page says coronavirus (covid-19) which makes me more confused.

 

Are asymptomatic people carrying the virus asymptomatically or the disease? 

[Dazo]

53 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Please don't naively categorise me as a conformist who is happy to conform on the premise of being a conformist.  I conform to the wider strategy because I believe it is largely the correct thing,  albeit a lot of the finer details have contained mistakes.

 

Saying that everywhere is open is a bit strange.  Nowhere in hospitality is open to anything like normal hours or trading abilities.  

Nothing strange about it everywhere is open, reduced hours means nothing especially in places of food where people only spend a certain amount of time anyway. You mentioned rising numbers and lockdown the fact is we aren’t locked down yet numbers are rising. If you or anyone else thinks having a drink with a meal in places that are already open will lead such a spread that hospitals won’t be able to cope is a ****ing mental, at best. 

[doctor jambo]

2 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

What's your occupation?

Think I might have to change my name on here, as it may not be obvious enough for some of you

[Don Dan]

51 minutes ago, Ma Roon said:

Scotland has recorded 4173 death's China has recorded 4634 

Could anyone explain this 

China being economical with the truth. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Boy Daniel
China

[The Real Maroonblood]

Just now, doctor jambo said:

Think I might have to change my name on here, as it may not be obvious enough for some of you

Your username means nothing on a forum.

 

[OBE]

2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

The death rate is pretty bad uk wide though. It's not just about not overwhelming the NHS.

 

Pre Covid-19, the general health of Scottish people was/is a national disgrace, we were always gonna be on the back-foot fighting a serious disease like this, our media glorifies deep fried Mars Bars FFS!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   I thought once fags reached £10 a packet (50p a fag) many would chuck it, including my son. Canae tell him, even though he lost two Grandparents through smoking related respiratory illnesses.

 

IMO, Deep-Fat-Fryers need banned, along with Just-Eat and similar platforms. The Brexit cloud could yet produce a silver lining with an abundance of Silver Darlings...grilled only, of course. 

 

[OBE]

54 minutes ago, Ma Roon said:

Scotland has recorded 4173 death's China has recorded 4634 

Could anyone explain this 

 

The Chinese should be sporting big noses...

[OBE]

47 minutes ago, Taffin said:

Sweden has had a bit of a kicking lately for its approach but despite that it's still done better than the UK in terms of both cases and deaths per 100,000.

 

Now they've increasingly applied more and more measures closer to our own but it's fair to say they've been a lot less strict over the whole year. Can anyone explain why that hasn't led to them performing much worse than the UK?

 

They dinae have a central belt...

[GinRummy]

6 minutes ago, OBE said:

 

Pre Covid-19, the general health of Scottish people was/is a national disgrace, we were always gonna be on the back-foot fighting a serious disease like this, our media glorifies deep fried Mars Bars FFS!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   I thought once fags reached £10 a packet (50p a fag) many would chuck it, including my son. Canae tell him, even though he lost two Grandparents through smoking related respiratory illnesses.

 

IMO, Deep-Fat-Fryers need banned, along with Just-Eat and similar platforms. The Brexit cloud could yet produce a silver lining with an abundance of Silver Darlings...grilled only, of course. 

 

So you reckon the general population was starting at a low point health wise and that's the main reason we have fared so badly?

 

As for your son, we were mostly all like that at his age I'd think. Death by Marlboro Lights isn't a consideration when you're young. Hopefully he'll learn and have the willpower to kick the habit.

Edited December 17, 2020 by GinRummy

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

5 minutes ago, OBE said:

 

The Chinese should be sporting big noses...

Makes you wonder 

[Victorian]

5 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Nothing strange about it everywhere is open, reduced hours means nothing especially in places of food where people only spend a certain amount of time anyway. You mentioned rising numbers and lockdown the fact is we aren’t locked down yet numbers are rising. If you or anyone else thinks having a drink with a meal in places that are already open will lead such a spread that hospitals won’t be able to cope is a ****ing mental, at best. 

 

Total misrepresentation.  There's a million miles between normal opening and the hours and trading abilities in place now.  Sure you could enable people to have a drink with a meal but that's not the limit of what most people are demanding.  Lots of people want a return to something closer to normality.  Unfortunately not every pub or restaurant will be responsible enough to keep their premises covid compliant.

 

Everybody really wants the day when we'll all be able to do most of the things we did.  I'm choking on getting back out and about and going to the pub.  

[Enzo Chiefo]

The latest PHE figures up to w/e 13 Dec show hospital bed occupancy rates in England of 89% compared to 95% this time last year. That figure is also based on 8k fewer beds this year, including the largely unused Nightingale hospitals

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

39 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

why are they similar - what metrics are you using to conclude this - life expectancy for example is it the same? underlying morbidity are they similar? What else?

 

 

How long is a piece of string, different factors in everybody and everything, just going by the stats although a Scottish male person life expectancy around 77ish as a Norwegian being 82ish 

[OBE]

2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

So you reckon the general population was starting at a low point health wise and that's the main reason we have fared so badly?

 

Main reason, who knows? but definitely a contributor. As highlighted yesterday, deprived areas have higher deaths from Cv-19.

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

5 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The latest PHE figures up to w/e 13 Dec show hospital bed occupancy rates in England of 89% compared to 95% this time last year. That figure is also based on 8k fewer beds this year, including the largely unused Nightingale hospitals

Just heard on radio that they don't have the staff for the Nightengale 

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 hours ago, Dazo said:

I’m the same, been out for a few 4 o’clock meals to support local restaurants but to be honest it’s a shite time and I miss a pint or bottle of wine with my meal. It’s ridiculous that any normal thinking person sees this as the way to go. 

I don't think they do see this as the way to go, I think some just defend the Scottish govt regardless of what they decide. There is no logic in banning alcohol being sold in oubs and restaurants.  No justification whatsoever.  The FM is fond of saying the virus "doesn't take a day off for Christmas " etc but neither does it distinguish between a non-alcoholic Heineken or a pint of Camden Hells, a Scotch Egg or a substantial meal. A few tweaks to the Tier rules such as allowing all outlets in Tiers 1, 2 and 3 to stay open until 10.30pm for meals and to serve alcohol with food, will save 53k jobs and allow 80% of businesses to operate,  turning over £927m. These changes need to be made now and a more logical approach introduced in dealing with the pandemic. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

7 day average death rate in Scotland took a significant dip today, down below 25 for the 1st time in a long while, 23.4 - it was up at 35 a month ago.

 

We just need the Oxford AZ vaccine to get approval and we are sprinting to the end of this, you will be able to go out for a meal and only have the wine soon!!

Good positive post Brian. Hope you're right👍

[Enzo Chiefo]

10 minutes ago, Ma Roon said:

Just heard on radio that they don't have the staff for the Nightengale 

That's interesting Ma Roon , did they indicate whether it was due to the number self-isolating or just lack of staff in general??

[cheetah]

Newcastle staying in tier 3 😭

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

8 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

That's interesting Ma Roon , did they indicate whether it was due to the number self-isolating or just lack of staff in general??

Well, not for me to say but I'd go with lack of investment and lack of trained staff would be my take on it 

There must be less bed's in hospital's due to social distancing spacing, therefore more being full to capacity quicker 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Ma Roon

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 hours ago, theshed said:

 

I agree they aren’t setting out to trash the economy but it’s easy to take the decision to shut everything when you have no money worries and will still be picking up a huge wage most people can only dream about 

 

I don’t think some people actually understand the long term damage this has cause as their head is in the sand and the people making these decisions will be long gone with their big lump sum pensions while we suffer for years to come 

Exactly 

[JudyJudyJudy]

12 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

I thought it was Stendel when he saw the squad he inherited 😜

Lol 

[Maroon Sailor]

33 minutes ago, cheetah said:

Newcastle staying in tier 3 😭

 

Sunderland have been in tier 3 for the last 3 years 🤣

[cheetah]

6 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Sunderland have been in tier 3 for the last 3 years 🤣

Boom Boom  

[DETTY29]

2 hours ago, Taffin said:

Sweden has had a bit of a kicking lately for its approach but despite that it's still done better than the UK in terms of both cases and deaths per 100,000.

 

Now they've increasingly applied more and more measures closer to our own but it's fair to say they've been a lot less strict over the whole year. Can anyone explain why that hasn't led to them performing much worse than the UK?

Lot more trust between the politicians and populus.

 

The Swedes have a belief system that the state is responsible for you from birth to death, so on the whole when they are asked by the state to do something they tend to do, rather than be forced by law.

 

They were asked at the start to socially distance, not visit over 70s, work from home, 900k families took kids out of school and so on....it wasn't this free for all that some believed was happening.  It was part of their 'managed' herd immunity strategy.

 

Ok, I'm an apologist, sheep but I'm amazed Scotland doesn't have by far the worst rates in at least Europe through sheer hatred of Sturgeon despite her following similar policy to rUK and Western Europe, hospitality being a case in point.

Edited December 17, 2020 by DETTY29

[Taffin]

3 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Lot more trust between the politicians and populus.

 

The Swedes have a belief system that the state is responsible for you from birth to death, so on the whole when they are asked by the state to do somerhing they tend to do, rather than be forced by law.

 

They were asked at the start to socially distance, not visit over 70s, work from home, 900k families took kids out of school and so on....it wasn't this free for all that some believed was happening.  It was part of their 'managed' herd immunity atrategy.

 

Ok, I'm an apologist, sheep but I'm amazed Scotland doesn't have by far the worst rates in at least Europe through sheer hatred of Sturgeon despite her following similar policy to rUK and Western Europe, hospitality being a case in point.

 

I'd react better to that approach, though I appreciate not everyone would.

 

I'm having second thoughts about Christmas because we're being asked to take responsibility. Had the changed the rules I wouldn't have even considered changing my plans.

[DETTY29]

6 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I'd react better to that approach, though I appreciate not everyone would.

 

I'm having second thoughts about Christmas because we're being asked to take responsibility. Had the changed the rules I wouldn't have even considered changing my plans.

We have a wider challenge in the UK that if we said the state was responsible from birth to death, many would say 'eff that, lazy so and sos, will just live a life of benefits, eff them'

 

But that's another denate.

 

But it will come along soon enough if let's say another Covid type pandemic hits us and all the lessons learned and contingency planning budgets get cut to virtually nothing, in the hope it doesn't happen for another 100 years.

 

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by DETTY29

[westbow]

4 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

What's your occupation?

Hearts supporting timelord.

[redjambo]

Scottish numbers: 17 December 2020

Summary

• 858 new cases of COVID-19 reported [+169]
• 30 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive [-8]
• 50 people were in intensive care yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19 [+1]
• 1,012 people were in hospital yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19 [-19]
• 22,452 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results – 4.4% of these were positive [+8,627; -1.5%]

[The Real Maroonblood]

4 minutes ago, westbow said:

Hearts supporting timelord.

[redjambo]

Per-100,000 case stats across the boards:

 

Scotland 16 [+3].

 

Fife 19 [+7], Greater Glasgow 19 [+10], Lanarkshire 19 [+5], Grampian 18 [+4], Ayrshire 17 [-8], Lothian 16 [+1], Forth Valley 14 [+4], Borders 10 [-6].

 

All the others: less than 10.

[ri Alban]

4 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

So that’s me vaccinated .

no issues, my hair is lustrous and my wifi has improved 

👍 Good lad. 

[westbow]

3 hours ago, the general said:

 

And then you see the carnage in shops like Primark and Zara!!!

To be fair, the only places open during lockdown were shops (essential ones) that came in all shapes and sizes. Numbers fell during that time. You were right before that you cannot tar all pubs with the same brush, I'd say the same for shops. In fact most smaller shops are struggling and would be happy with a bit of "managed" carnage.

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

2 hours ago, Ma Roon said:

How long is a piece of string, different factors in everybody and everything, just going by the stats although a Scottish male person life expectancy around 77ish as a Norwegian being 82ish 

 

“stats” ?

 

so not necessarily will be similar like you said once some analysis is done 

[Nucky Thompson]

Rishi Sunak extends furlough for an extra month until the end of April. 

Good news for a lot of people