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Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )


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1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

If you can't trust folk not to cross borders, or stop them from doing so (for non-essential reasons), then it's no use having tiers in the first place.


a free for all is not the answer. Majority of folk are complying with tiers regardless of wether or not it’s fair or not or wether they believe it’s fair or not. The system is in place to try and stop the spread. If arses never crossed regions then Edinburgh would rightly be tier 2.  I’m in the borders and expect us to go back up a tier shortly due to the fact folk will come down . Human nature . But the fallout from this will be lockdowns periodically until majority are all vaccinated mid 2021

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3 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:


a free for all is not the answer. Majority of folk are complying with tiers regardless of wether or not it’s fair or not or wether they believe it’s fair or not. The system is in place to try and stop the spread. If arses never crossed regions then Edinburgh would rightly be tier 2.  I’m in the borders and expect us to go back up a tier shortly due to the fact folk will come down . Human nature . But the fallout from this will be lockdowns periodically until majority are all vaccinated mid 2021

 

I agree with the bit in bold. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that the SG can't use the possibility that folk will cross borders as an excuse on a sporadic and indeterminate basis, because that produces apparently unfair decision-making.

 

I hope that the Borders get through the festive period without too many adverse effects. :thumb:

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Pasquale for King
18 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:


weegies were down in gala a few weeks ago I saw it but got turned away at the salmon. They were asked for their postcodes and other info and were all over the place. Believe they then went to Melrose.

point is they will travel for pints . A cup final is on the horizon as well as we know

Old firm game coming up too, anywhere in tier 1/2 will be seen as fair game especially seeing as the north of  England is closed for business. 

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Pasquale for King
4 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I agree with the bit in bold. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that the SG can't use the possibility that folk will cross borders as an excuse on a sporadic and indeterminate basis, because that produces apparently unfair decision-making.

 

I hope that the Borders get through the festive period without too many adverse effects. :thumb:

Agreed, and good luck to the borders as I will be there on Xmas eve to Boxing Day 😆

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As horrible as it sounds, people need to realise that to other people, a stranger's death is just that and no different, or more/less tragic than the many thousands of others who die every day. Of course people are concerned about their own personal friends, family and circumstances and if the restrictions are what are causing the angst, that's what they'll be bothered about. It's human nature. We might not like it, but that's the way it is.

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Howdy Doody Jambo
1 hour ago, Taffin said:

As horrible as it sounds, people need to realise that to other people, a stranger's death is just that and no different, or more/less tragic than the many thousands of others who die every day. Of course people are concerned about their own personal friends, family and circumstances and if the restrictions are what are causing the angst, that's what they'll be bothered about. It's human nature. We might not like it, but that's the way it is.

Then why have a Tier system in place to control the spread? 

 

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16 minutes ago, Ma Roon said:

Then why have a Tier system in place to control the spread? 

 

It's fair enough having a tier system in place but it would be good if it was administered even handedly over the entire country. Edinburgh folk being punished unfairly is not going to wash. She spent ages dilly dallying before eventually and reluctantly sticking Glasgow in tier 4 but keeps Edinburgh in as high a tier as possible. That is favouring one city over another.

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2 hours ago, Taffin said:

As horrible as it sounds, people need to realise that to other people, a stranger's death is just that and no different, or more/less tragic than the many thousands of others who die every day. Of course people are concerned about their own personal friends, family and circumstances and if the restrictions are what are causing the angst, that's what they'll be bothered about. It's human nature. We might not like it, but that's the way it is.

Agreed, my children's futures are of far more importance to me than any pensioner who has already exceeded the national life expectancy.

 

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Seems to be the only reason Edinburgh isn’t in the correct tier is because people from Glasgow might come here :lol:  crazy, just shows how much of a shambles this tier system is and it’s clearly not fit for purpose.  
 

As someone living in Edinburgh that has followed the rules as best I can I won’t be bothering with them too much anymore.  I’ll just use my own judgement on situations as the tier system isn’t being used in the way we were told.  
 

not once did the rules mention that Edinburgh can’t be put in the tier that it should be in because of the fear of other councils then coming to Edinburgh, it’s a disgrace. 

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AngleParkMenace
16 hours ago, Dazo said:


Aberdeens numbers suggested they should be in tier 2. That’s not bias. Edinburgh’s numbers suggested they should be in tier 2 but are in 3. Speculate all you want on what that is. 

Spot on. Add in that Falkirks numbers also suggest tier two, exactly where they are being put. Something very much amiss 

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Governor Tarkin
10 hours ago, jonesy said:
10 hours ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

I gave a couple of posters tips on beer gardens in the late summer weeks, Jonesy. There's two, right there. 😊

Good enough for me 🦸‍♂️

 

It was a bum steer. :(

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10 hours ago, jonesy said:

Just biding his time, I reckon. Imagine the fury he will unleash come judgement day.

 

Either that, or forgot his mum's passcode and cannae get into her iPad.

I dare mention his name as he may show up like “ candy man “ !! 😂

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8 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Why did they guarantee the 11 councils would come out of tier 4 no matter what? That the borders this week can go to tier 1 when nothing has changed since it was told it was to stay in tier 2 last week. All this has been discussed already and no good reason has been given. They’re scared others will come here, again that’s not our fault and we shouldn’t suffer because of others law breaking. 
Xmas is going to lead to a crackdown of some sort in January, it was inevitable whether they allowed gatherings or not. They’ve not even thought about the cluster**** of Hogmanay yet. Get a haircut and bog roll while you can. Add Brexit in and January is looking just wonderful. 
I don’t bet but I would put money on Edinburgh staying in tier 3 until January, tier 4 until Valentine’s Day and not into tier 2 until Easter when canvassing will be start and tier 1 by the time of the election.  Totally scunnered by today’s decision.

Sorry a bit long winded and very disjointed.

 

I think @redjambo noted previously L4, was always Scotland's localised circuit break, with a fixed time limit.  I've tried unsuccessfully to find out whether that was a legislative part of the bill agreed by the Scottish Parliament at end of October or left as within the gift of the SG,Cabinet.

 

I think it should also be recognised is that the high level council by council, 5 tier system approach and high level contents/buckets was approved unanimously by MSPs.  Some MSPs D&G - Borders imo have been a bit irresponsible in their 'why are you closing the border, restricting my constituents approach'.  Not that I'm agreeing D&G and Borders shouldn't have been dropped a tier sooner but it's not just them but many MSPs imo haven't hammered enough the stay local message despite voting for it.

 

I'd set myself up for L3 to continue but as discussed all indicators for Edinburgh are positive.  It's been a bigger kick in the teeth than I'd imagined.

 

With no council being in L4, Retail has now opened in full and therefore there shouldn't be any need for anyone to cross council borders unless something is essential that can't be bought locally (plus isn't allowed - Christmas eh? - back to responsibility by MSPs)  There has to have been a decent level of modelling to understand the differential by moving a 'metro' area down a level between 'full compliance' and 'I'll go where I want' from outsiders. That said, 4 to 3 would seem a bigger risk than 3 to 2, from a pure direct covid impacts perspective.

 

Looking at the L3 and L2 restrictions there is very little between the 2.  What stands out a mile however is hospitality and entertainment industries.  I just cannot understand why adult address id is not asked for so that these establishments, premises can open up - and with this approach promoted by the industry.  If it clear it's needed that will if not stop, reduce the numbers trying to get in.  Better than being closed.

 

Finally at last, re what may and may not happen in lead up to the SG elections and the tierings, through this whole pandemic, the nuances between England and Scotland has been very limited.  On the whole more cautious and slightly behind outside of a second full lockdown. 

 

We are getting a pro rata level of vaccine, working off pretty much the same 10 level vaccination programme and approach.  I just can't see Sturgeon - the SG going dramatically off script in the lowering restrictions compared to rUK.

 

 

Edited by DETTY29
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The Real Maroonblood
8 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Why did they guarantee the 11 councils would come out of tier 4 no matter what? That the borders this week can go to tier 1 when nothing has changed since it was told it was to stay in tier 2 last week. All this has been discussed already and no good reason has been given. They’re scared others will come here, again that’s not our fault and we shouldn’t suffer because of others law breaking. 
Xmas is going to lead to a crackdown of some sort in January, it was inevitable whether they allowed gatherings or not. They’ve not even thought about the cluster**** of Hogmanay yet. Get a haircut and bog roll while you can. Add Brexit in and January is looking just wonderful. 
I don’t bet but I would put money on Edinburgh staying in tier 3 until January, tier 4 until Valentine’s Day and not into tier 2 until Easter when canvassing will be start and tier 1 by the time of the election.  Totally scunnered by today’s decision.

I thought that I would’ve calmed down this morning but I’m still raging about the decision.

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Nucky Thompson
7 hours ago, Cairneyhill Jambo said:

**** me. This thread is an absolute cluster****. I've lost friends and work colleagues in the last few months because of this virus and folk on here are moaning because they are too wrapped up in their selfish little world. Maybe, just maybe, stop pointing the finger of blame and just accept these are shite times that will hopefully get better. 

What a load of fecking shite. 

People are entitled to moan when they have been treated like crap.

I lost my mother in May to covid and I know who's to blame for the care home fiasco

 

You can't bare to see Nicola and the SNP getting criticised

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1 minute ago, Nucky Thompson said:

What a load of fecking shite. 

People are entitled to moan when they have been treated like crap.

I lost my mother in May to covid and I know who's to blame for the care home fiasco

 

You can't bare to see Nicola and the SNP getting criticised

 

I don't think I knew that you'd lost your mum, Nucky. Sorry to hear it.

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Governor Tarkin
4 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

What a load of fecking shite. 

People are entitled to moan when they have been treated like crap.

I lost my mother in May to covid and I know who's to blame for the care home fiasco

 

You can't bare to see Nicola and the SNP getting criticised

 

That's shite, bud. Sorry.

 

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4 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I don't think I knew that you'd lost your mum, Nucky. Sorry to hear it.

Neither did I . Sorry to hear this . 

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Nucky Thompson
8 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Why did they guarantee the 11 councils would come out of tier 4 no matter what? That the borders this week can go to tier 1 when nothing has changed since it was told it was to stay in tier 2 last week. All this has been discussed already and no good reason has been given. They’re scared others will come here, again that’s not our fault and we shouldn’t suffer because of others law breaking. 
Xmas is going to lead to a crackdown of some sort in January, it was inevitable whether they allowed gatherings or not. They’ve not even thought about the cluster**** of Hogmanay yet. Get a haircut and bog roll while you can. Add Brexit in and January is looking just wonderful. 
I don’t bet but I would put money on Edinburgh staying in tier 3 until January, tier 4 until Valentine’s Day and not into tier 2 until Easter when canvassing will be start and tier 1 by the time of the election.  Totally scunnered by today’s decision.

Respect to you PfK.

We need more SNP members to call them out.

It will be more beneficial than bitter Unionists bumping their gums

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1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

So shit they’re funny :lol: 

It appealed to my childish sense of humour 😂

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Just now, Nucky Thompson said:

Respect to you PfK.

We need more SNP members to call them out.

It will be more beneficial than bitter Unionists bumping their gums

 

It would be more useful if our disgrace of a council stood up for the city with its businesses and citizens publicly rather than submitted to their political masters.

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jack D and coke
10 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

What a load of fecking shite. 

People are entitled to moan when they have been treated like crap.

I lost my mother in May to covid and I know who's to blame for the care home fiasco

 

You can't bare to see Nicola and the SNP getting criticised

Bloody hell mate sorry to hear that....

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Nucky Thompson
5 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I don't think I knew that you'd lost your mum, Nucky. Sorry to hear it.

Cheers red. I've never mentioned it before as I'm not really one for posting personal stuff.

 

She was 95 years old with dementia, but still living at home with carers coming in.

When lockdown happened in March and her routine changed, she started wandering the streets and the Police kept bringing her home most nights.

Ironically, she was put into a care home for her own safety. She only lasted 7 weeks in there.

 

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8 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Why did they guarantee the 11 councils would come out of tier 4 no matter what? That the borders this week can go to tier 1 when nothing has changed since it was told it was to stay in tier 2 last week. All this has been discussed already and no good reason has been given. They’re scared others will come here, again that’s not our fault and we shouldn’t suffer because of others law breaking. 
Xmas is going to lead to a crackdown of some sort in January, it was inevitable whether they allowed gatherings or not. They’ve not even thought about the cluster**** of Hogmanay yet. Get a haircut and bog roll while you can. Add Brexit in and January is looking just wonderful. 
I don’t bet but I would put money on Edinburgh staying in tier 3 until January, tier 4 until Valentine’s Day and not into tier 2 until Easter when canvassing will be start and tier 1 by the time of the election.  Totally scunnered by today’s decision.

Sadly I think you are right . I would even go further and say that Edinburgh will be in tier 3 until Feb | March . I really feel that the SG is now spiralling out of control and I once supported them . I noticed on other social media a restaurant owner in Edinburgh is taking the SG to court re lockdown and how it’s ruined her business . Good luck to her 

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Governor Tarkin
5 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 


I know some of the young team who have got round the alchol ban in this fine city. 

 

They get a bottle of hand sanitizer, empty and clean it. Then fill it with vodka or some other clear booze and add to their soft drinks. 
 

Some of the bottle sizes are getting ridiculous. A young girl, apparently, went for the family value pack approach, could barely stand a end of meal 😂
 

I suppose necessity is the mother of all invention. 🙈




 

 

 

Whilst my continued admiration for their youthful ingenuity is unwavering, I'm not so sure this approach would be appropriate for half a case of Catena Alta Malbec.

 

Back to the drawing board.

 

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8 hours ago, luckydug said:

 

Is there not to be a review of the tiers next week  ?

My view is that the SG didn't really want to relax the rules for Xmas and are shitting it in fear of a steep rise of infections in January. With that in mind they are determined to keep the foot on the brakes to get  figures as low as possible.

 

Exactly how I see it, if they open the pubs in "Scotland's 2nd biggest city" just now then the inevitable increase in cases would coincide with them implementing their Xmas relaxation and they would get slaughtered for that. It would also push up the Scottish average infection rate much more than a smaller populated region at a time when they need a low base.

Pretty sure Edinburgh will go to tier 2 next week to prevent that happening. Armageddon in the new year though.

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1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

It's fair enough having a tier system in place but it would be good if it was administered even handedly over the entire country. Edinburgh folk being punished unfairly is not going to wash. She spent ages dilly dallying before eventually and reluctantly sticking Glasgow in tier 4 but keeps Edinburgh in as high a tier as possible. That is favouring one city over another.

 

In a parallel universe that could look like she doesn't give a shit about slowing the spread in Glasgow so didn't increase restrictions but because she cares so much about Edinburgh she kept them in as high a tier as she could to protect them.

 

I know.....

 

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1 hour ago, Shanks said:

Seems to be the only reason Edinburgh isn’t in the correct tier is because people from Glasgow might come here :lol:  crazy, just shows how much of a shambles this tier system is and it’s clearly not fit for purpose.  
 

As someone living in Edinburgh that has followed the rules as best I can I won’t be bothering with them too much anymore.  I’ll just use my own judgement on situations as the tier system isn’t being used in the way we were told.  
 

not once did the rules mention that Edinburgh can’t be put in the tier that it should be in because of the fear of other councils then coming to Edinburgh, it’s a disgrace. 

 

That last part. Yes it was, surrounding areas were always a factor that was considered.

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8 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Cheers red. I've never mentioned it before as I'm not really one for posting personal stuff.

 

She was 95 years old with dementia, but still living at home with carers coming in.

When lockdown happened in March and her routine changed, she started wandering the streets and the Police kept bringing her home most nights.

Ironically, she was put into a care home for her own safety. She only lasted 7 weeks in there.

 

To see your mum decline with dementia, and then see her get worse with the lockdown (I know where you're coming from as my dad's dementia has been getting progressively worse during lockdown - he can't really grasp the situation), and finally to see her pass on due to our inability to protect those in care homes must have been really tough for you. My admiration that you've stayed strong though it all.

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10 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

That last part. Yes it was, surrounding areas were always a factor that was considered.


Just for Edinburgh ? I must have missed that. 

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SectionDJambo
17 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

What a load of fecking shite. 

People are entitled to moan when they have been treated like crap.

I lost my mother in May to covid and I know who's to blame for the care home fiasco

 

You can't bare to see Nicola and the SNP getting criticised

A terrible time for you, losing your mum. My sincere condolences.

You are, in my opinion, absolutely right. People are entitled to moan when they can see that the politicians who were voted into power to run the country, in good and bad times, have consistently made decisions or created the environment, that have resulted in so many deaths and such extended disruption to our lives, due to Covid 19.

Nobody asked these politicians to take on their positions of power and influence. They chose to follow that employment route. It's also no excuse for them to compare us with other European countries, as a means of trying to show everyone else is still suffering from Covid 19 as well as us.

The death rate, from the pandemic, in the UK, is horrendous. The UK being an island should have put us at a great advantage, in being able to protect this country from such a situation. It's not as if Covid 19 sneaked up on us. We saw what was happening in Italy, for example, well before it hit us hard. Despite this, we kept allowing international flights to come in from all over the world, including some of the worst affected areas at the time. The NHS had suffered funding restrictions over a number of years, putting it at a huge disadvantage from the start.

Money and severely misplaced complacency overrode any sensible preventative actions. Even now, we hear stories suggesting corruption and financial favouritism was, and is still, rife, at the cost of people's lives.

Bickering and grandstanding between Holyrood and Westminster doesn't detract from the incompetence of both governments in the way that Care Home residents were exposed to the virus. The lack of thought, common sense and compassion in the decision making surrounding those extremely vulnerable people, who had made significant contributions to the UK over their lives, was deplorable.

I can't think of a politician, in a position of power, who can look back on their contribution to the UK during 2020, with anything other than shame, or at best, personal regret. They all could have, and should have, made a far better job of it.

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20 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

In a parallel universe that could look like she doesn't give a shit about slowing the spread in Glasgow so didn't increase restrictions but because she cares so much about Edinburgh she kept them in as high a tier as she could to protect them.

 

I know.....

 

Believe it or not I did consider that...briefly, then decided to continue being raging 😁

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4 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

A look at the shopping crowds descending on England's capital over the weekend is what stopped Edinburgh dropping to Level 2. 

If shopping was the issue, why reduce Glasgow to tier 3, opening lots of shops?

 

They should be in tier 4.

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The Real Maroonblood
58 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

What a load of fecking shite. 

People are entitled to moan when they have been treated like crap.

I lost my mother in May to covid and I know who's to blame for the care home fiasco

 

You can't bare to see Nicola and the SNP getting criticised

I’m really sorry to hear your Mum has passed away.

 

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1 hour ago, Nucky Thompson said:

What a load of fecking shite. 

People are entitled to moan when they have been treated like crap.

I lost my mother in May to covid and I know who's to blame for the care home fiasco

 

You can't bare to see Nicola and the SNP getting criticised

 

Sorry to hear of your loss Nucky. 

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28 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

To see your mum decline with dementia, and then see her get worse with the lockdown (I know where you're coming from as my dad's dementia has been getting progressively worse during lockdown - he can't really grasp the situation), and finally to see her pass on due to our inability to protect those in care homes must have been really tough for you. My admiration that you've stayed strong though it all.

 

My thoughts are with you and @Nucky Thompson.  I lost my Dad last year to a heart attack, but he had a head injury six years before and wasn't really the same person.  He was outgoing and active and all that stopped after his accident.

 

I have a friend who chose to keep his disabled Mum and home in February when he was advised to put her into a care home, and that seems to have been the best option in hindsight.

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17 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

If shopping was the issue, why reduce Glasgow to tier 3, opening lots of shops?

 

They should be in tier 4.

 

Because in level 3 people still can't move into the area from elsewhere. No droves from the surrounding slums piling into the city centre. 

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Blackie the Cat
10 hours ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

I have a lot of sympathy for people in this position and my job is far from safe. 

 

 

Fire up to Aviemore and have it out with the ****ers then.. 

I will keep my fingers crossed for your job!

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2 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Because in level 3 people still can't move into the area from elsewhere. No droves from the surrounding slums piling into the city centre. 

For Edinburgh e.g is the issue the risk of folk coming in to the council boundary or folk within Edinburgh socialising too much?

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7 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Because in level 3 people still can't move into the area from elsewhere. No droves from the surrounding slums piling into the city centre. 

 

Your constant willingness to find utterly irrelevant excuses to defend the indefensible from the SG shitshow are truly tiresome.

Edited by frankblack
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8 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

A look at the shopping crowds descending on England's capital over the weekend is what stopped Edinburgh dropping to Level 2. 


Our shops are already open and people shouldn’t be travelling into Edinburgh so again we are getting punished because if other areas. 

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51 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

In a parallel universe that could look like she doesn't give a shit about slowing the spread in Glasgow so didn't increase restrictions but because she cares so much about Edinburgh she kept them in as high a tier as she could to protect them.

 

I know.....

 

Yes thd goal posts we’re clearly changed yesterday 

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46 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

A terrible time for you, losing your mum. My sincere condolences.

You are, in my opinion, absolutely right. People are entitled to moan when they can see that the politicians who were voted into power to run the country, in good and bad times, have consistently made decisions or created the environment, that have resulted in so many deaths and such extended disruption to our lives, due to Covid 19.

Nobody asked these politicians to take on their positions of power and influence. They chose to follow that employment route. It's also no excuse for them to compare us with other European countries, as a means of trying to show everyone else is still suffering from Covid 19 as well as us.

The death rate, from the pandemic, in the UK, is horrendous. The UK being an island should have put us at a great advantage, in being able to protect this country from such a situation. It's not as if Covid 19 sneaked up on us. We saw what was happening in Italy, for example, well before it hit us hard. Despite this, we kept allowing international flights to come in from all over the world, including some of the worst affected areas at the time. The NHS had suffered funding restrictions over a number of years, putting it at a huge disadvantage from the start.

Money and severely misplaced complacency overrode any sensible preventative actions. Even now, we hear stories suggesting corruption and financial favouritism was, and is still, rife, at the cost of people's lives.

Bickering and grandstanding between Holyrood and Westminster doesn't detract from the incompetence of both governments in the way that Care Home residents were exposed to the virus. The lack of thought, common sense and compassion in the decision making surrounding those extremely vulnerable people, who had made significant contributions to the UK over their lives, was deplorable.

I can't think of a politician, in a position of power, who can look back on their contribution to the UK during 2020, with anything other than shame, or at best, personal regret. They all could have, and should have, made a far better job of it.

First of all @Nucky Thompsonsorry for his loss and the circumstances too.

 

I think you are coming from where I do.  I think our politicians have been as week as heck during this, notably the advantages of potential border lockdown; care homes, vulnerable, NHS and so on

 

And you haven't noted the absolute pilfering of public funds to the extent billions by the WM govt and their pals and associates.  Imagine getting to the stage where another multi hundred million pound contract is awarded to a recent start up company isn't the worst of it, but finding out weeks later their mark up is 10x what the country could have procured at, and still we shrug it off.

 

I need a pint or ten, with f2f company.

Edited by DETTY29
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15 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Your constant willingness to find utterly irrelevant excuses to defend the indefensible from the SG shitshow are truly tiresome.

Judgmental attitude too “ slums “ ? 

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The Real Maroonblood
18 minutes ago, Dazo said:


Our shops are already open and people shouldn’t be travelling into Edinburgh so again we are getting punished because if other areas. 

I agree.

It’s up to the SG to police it properly.

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3 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Judgmental attitude too “ slums “ ? 

 

True.  Hasn't done himself any favours when using that language to try and win a debate.

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