Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Dazo]

2 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

I expect nothing from no one. I never have. But I disagree when people who have everything, want more and more for free, then moan when they have to pass it on.

Richard Branson for example and rich Tory front benchers collecting expenses for things they can afford.

 

Anyway, I'll be working and if I have to fighting.

I didn’t specifically mean you but that expectation is real. 
 

The rest of your post is all a bit left wing and nothing to do with what’s going on just now so best left. 
 

All the best and stay safe. 👍

[shaun.lawson]

Just now, Dazo said:

It’s a load of shite because you don’t agree ?
 

Self employed or otherwise you should have something in place if the worst happens and you can’t earn. It’s your responsibility to look after yourself and your family, not the governments. It’s that expectation that is wrong in my opinion. 

 

Tell that to these people. All victims of the economy that's been created by Tory voters.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/mar/21/gig-economy-workers-despair-overlooked-government-aid-package

 

Wages have barely risen at all in over a decade. Millions upon millions of people have been thrown to the wolves by a disgusting society which has prioritised inherited wealth and property values over work and workers' rights.

 

The planet on which people like you reside - "it's YOUR responsibility! Your responsibility!" - is like some parallel universe. Never more so than at a time like this.

 

People on zero hours contracts who've not known if they'd have any work from one week to the next were supposed to save a year's wages for when the government shut the economy down? Carers already caught in a disastrous, crippling crisis even before this were supposed to do likewise? All those workers whose rights have been removed by companies galore which treat them as 'self-employed' and provide no sick pay, no holidays, no nothing, were supposed to do likewise?

 

I ask again. On what planet do you live? Right now. we're discovering who the key workers in society truly are. By some unfathomable coincidence, they also happen to mostly be workers we've collectively thrown under a bus for more than a decade.

[JFK-1]

2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I’ve honestly never ever read so much shite in my life. There’s no point even in a serious reply because you’re just so much out of touch with many people’s everyday reality.

 

Agreed, there are millions out there who live from pay cheque to pay cheque unable to save. And anything they might save would be so little it would be trivial in a situation like this which will drag on for probably months at a minimum.

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Agreed, there are millions out there who live from pay cheque to pay cheque unable to save. And anything they might save would be so little it would be trivial in a situation like this which will drag on for probably months at a minimum.

Well said.

[ri Alban]

2 minutes ago, Dazo said:

I didn’t specifically mean you but that expectation is real. 
 

The rest of your post is all a bit left wing and nothing to do with what’s going on just now so best left. 
 

All the best and stay safe. 👍

Oh right, just stick to the right. 👍 

 

I know nothing about anyone's circumstances to comment on how they deal with the hardships they could now encounter, I'd advise people to keep their self righteous musings to themselves.(Yes me anaw).

Edited March 22, 2020 by ri Alban

[Dazo]

4 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I’ve honestly never ever read so much shite in my life. There’s no point even in a serious reply because you’re just so much out of touch with many people’s everyday reality.

If someone is sick or injured and can’t work how do they expect to earn ? Surely you should make provisions for when that day comes. Nothing out of touch here. 

[Dawnrazor]

6 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

......... and rich Tory front benchers collecting expenses for things they can afford.

 

 

To be fair, Labour MP's expence claims have left a lot to be desired, when it come to politicians, all parties have had thier greedy *******s.

[GinRummy]

Just now, Dazo said:

If someone is sick or injured and can’t work how do they expect to earn ? Surely you should make provisions for when that day comes. Nothing out of touch here. 

You’ve just proven my point about being out of touch with many people’s reality. I’m not going to continue the conversation with you as our views are so far apart it’s just going to lead to petty squabbling and ruin the thread for everyone else. 

[I P Knightley]

12 hours ago, Alan_R said:

We need lockdown to spell it out for the numpties. Too many selfish and stupid people out there

This it's the crux of it; legal combinations of selfishness and stupidity. 

 

 

10 hours ago, Wham Bam Austin McCann said:

 

My work has still been open up until this point and my kids were in school until yesterday. We are planning a walk tomorrow around Falkland just the 4 of us. 

 

Are people genuinely suggesting that we spend 3 months indoors? As in like prison? 

 

Serious question btw. Is this what folk mean by "lockdown"?

 

Because if so, there will be huge problems after this of mental health, possible suicide rate soaring, then you will get people who then abuse alcohol and drugs after it when they finally can go out etc. 

 

No chance im staying in for months. None.

Many seem to find it difficult to distinguish between responsible distancing and house arrest. I'm lucky, I have a house with a decent garden but there are many who don't. Dog owners need to get out to let their mutt have a crap. They can take it round the streets or to thre local park. As long as they're not shaking hands and hugging pals, there shouldn't be a problem. 

 

We had a sunny afternoon yesterday and I took thre dog to the local park. I saw about half a dozen pals and stopped for a chat, remaining at least 2 metres apart. One guy didn't seem to have got thre message (stupid and selfish) and kept stepping towards me. I couldn't believe I had to tell him to take a step back - but he was telling me how his 14 year old son had gone out with friends (family of arseholes with an ill mother).

 

I also saw families with their kids in the swing park taking turns in the equipment - just too stupid for words. 

 

[ri Alban]

3 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

To be fair, Labour MP's expence claims have left a lot to be desired, when it come to politicians, all parties have had thier greedy *******s.

True, I thought I'd written that, thanks for the correction.

[Dazo]

5 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

You’ve just proven my point about being out of touch with many people’s reality. I’m not going to continue the conversation with you as our views are so far apart it’s just going to lead to petty squabbling and ruin the thread for everyone else. 

Agreed. 

[shaun.lawson]

From The Guardian's rolling feed:

 

NHS nurses are being made to use various items they can find – including bin bags – in the hospital to help protect themselves, with many using plastic aprons over their head, buying wellies or wrapping clinical waste bags around their feet.

One nurse, who did not wish to be named, said:

Widespread nurses are making their own PPE [personal protective equipment]. I know friends I trained with doing the same. We have to protect ourselves, some of us have children and babies. We are trying to help people but have to protect families. I don’t know why we are not getting PPE.

She added:

I don’t think it’s about money but management. Some third world countries are dealing properly with this pandemic but we are not. We are doing our best - really doing our best but in terms of the equipment needed to help patients they are failing. Ventilators, for example. If we have unwell patients but no ITU [intensive treatment unit] capacity we can’t do much.

Nurses in the Royal Free Hospital in north London have been tying clinical waste bags around their legs, the Guardian has been told. In North Middlesex Hospital they have been tying plastic aprons around their heads.

Edited March 22, 2020 by shaun.lawson

[JFK-1]

7 minutes ago, Dazo said:

If someone is sick or injured and can’t work how do they expect to earn ? Surely you should make provisions for when that day comes. Nothing out of touch here. 

 

So what are you suggesting people out there barely scraping by on a minimum wage with a family do? People who work and are still on some sort of benefits just to survive.

Maybe invest in the lottery and hope that works out? You are way out of touch with the reality of many many people.

[Dazo]

Just now, JFK-1 said:

 

So what are you suggesting people out there barely scraping by on a minimum wage with a family do? People who work and are still on some sort of benefits just to survive.

Maybe invest in the lottery and hope that works out? You are way out of touch with the reality of many many people.

Isn’t the government trying to help these people ? 
 

expecting people to look after themselves isn’t out of touch. 

[Homme]

53 minutes ago, The Roller said:

Hundreds upon hundreds queueing to get into my local Tescos.

 

The message about panic buying simply isn’t being listened to.

Tesco Bathgate? 

 

My partner thought we would go for the NHS hour so we went down with her I'd but the queue was round the car park and out the main entrance. Immediate about turn. 

 

Managed to pick up what we need elsewhere and get our grandparents provisions too. 

[JFK-1]

Just now, Dazo said:

Isn’t the government trying to help these people ? 
 

expecting people to look after themselves isn’t out of touch. 

 

Yes I thought so, you have no suggestions. 

[shaun.lawson]

 

 

As for what "all the fuss is about"...

 

 

The UK is currently on the exact same trajectory as Italy - and:

 

1. Has yet to impose a full lockdown, unlike Italy

 

2. Has a much, much more under-resourced health service than Italy.

[Fire_At_The_Disco]

My wife has secondary breast cancer and kidney disease through no choice of her own and in her early 50s is no old codger with a flu jab you insensitive bam. Worried doesn’t even cover our emotions. Grow up ffs

[JFK-1]

If anyone thinks this is comparable to flu they need to get their expertise out there. To negate the stupidity of these Italian doctors who in this video flatly state it's nothing like flu. The world is closing down for flu? The stupidity is mind boggling.
 

 

[The Roller]

11 minutes ago, Homme said:

Tesco Bathgate? 

 

My partner thought we would go for the NHS hour so we went down with her I'd but the queue was round the car park and out the main entrance. Immediate about turn. 

 

Managed to pick up what we need elsewhere and get our grandparents provisions too. 

Eskbank.

[vegas-voss]

Mate and his family off to North Berwick for the day seeing as it's nice.How many more will be down there it's fecking madness folk just seem oblivious to what is happening.

[Mikey1874]

Looks like they will produce a scheme for the self employed. 

 

Meantime saying apply for Universal Credit but not saying that a single person over 25 gets about £320 per month compared to the £2,200 per month being guaranteed for employees.

[Taffin]

4 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Looks like they will produce a scheme for the self employed. 

 

Meantime saying apply for Universal Credit but not saying that a single person over 25 gets about £320 per month compared to the £2,200 per month being guaranteed for employees.

 

Is that not a known risk of being self-employed, that you don't really have much of a safety net? One of the guys on my project at work is self employed and gets about twice as much per day as I do but of course doesn't have the pension, sick pay and security etc.

 

I've often considered it but when I speak to those doing it they've generally advised against it for those reasons.

 

Totally agree though that society needs to change in that respect, I think any job that has self employed people should be forced to have the option for them to become an employee after, say, 6 months.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Taffin

[milky_26]

13 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

Mate and his family off to North Berwick for the day seeing as it's nice.How many more will be down there it's fecking madness folk just seem oblivious to what is happening.

[Mikey1874]

8 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Is that not a known risk of being self-employed, that you don't really have much of a safety net? One of the guys on my project at work is self employed and gets about twice as much per day as I do but of course doesn't have the pension, sick pay and security etc.

 

I've often considered it but when I speak to those doing it they've generally advised against it for those reasons.

 

Totally agree though that society needs to change in that respect, I think any job that has self employed people should be forced to have the option for them to become an employee after, say, 6 months.

 

Governments over last 20 years have been encouraging people to be self employed. 

 

Of course we have 2 main categories.

 

1. People running their own businesses.

 

2. People forced into a self employed category by employers seeking to avoid the costs of sick pay, annual leave etc. 

[Mikey1874]

8 minutes ago, Barack said:

Someone on the Marr show?

 

Just the pressure from all over. Within minutes of Rishi Sunak's Friday statement. 

 

Eg

 

 

 

 

Edited March 22, 2020 by Mikey1874

[GBJambo]

1 hour ago, The Roller said:

Hundreds upon hundreds queueing to get into my local Tescos.

 

The message about panic buying simply isn’t being listened to.

My local Tesco’s didn’t give the full hour to nhs staff. They let the panic buyers in early and their excuse was they couldn’t keep them out as couldn’t enforce it. 

[Baldwigforjack]

30 minutes ago, The Roller said:

Eskbank.

Actually its Hardengreen

[Dagger Is Back]

1 hour ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Tell that to these people. All victims of the economy that's been created by Tory voters.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/mar/21/gig-economy-workers-despair-overlooked-government-aid-package

 

Wages have barely risen at all in over a decade. Millions upon millions of people have been thrown to the wolves by a disgusting society which has prioritised inherited wealth and property values over work and workers' rights.

 

The planet on which people like you reside - "it's YOUR responsibility! Your responsibility!" - is like some parallel universe. Never more so than at a time like this.

 

People on zero hours contracts who've not known if they'd have any work from one week to the next were supposed to save a year's wages for when the government shut the economy down? Carers already caught in a disastrous, crippling crisis even before this were supposed to do likewise? All those workers whose rights have been removed by companies galore which treat them as 'self-employed' and provide no sick pay, no holidays, no nothing, were supposed to do likewise?

 

I ask again. On what planet do you live? Right now. we're discovering who the key workers in society truly are. By some unfathomable coincidence, they also happen to mostly be workers we've collectively thrown under a bus for more than a decade.

 

Well said Shaun. Don't always agree with your post but you're spot on here. If something good can come out of all of this, it's that as a society, we learn form our lessons and place a greater value on the things and people that really matter. 

 

I've been self employed for 15 years and knocked my pan in to build a business. We've lived hand to mouth for most of that time and steered the business through a recession already as well as a raft of other social and economic charities which have affected many other businesses.

 

I'm not sitting here expecting HMG to 'bail me out' which is why I started a warehouse job yesterday given that my business has been forced to shut down for the foreseeable future. We can't survive on £700pm and to suggest that I somehow should have built up a wee emergency fund is quite frankly insulting and ridiculous

 

It would however be nice if some support other than be able to apply for UC could be made available to the 5m self employed in this country. I'm sure support will come next week and it's much needed.

 

In saying that, I'd forego every penny if it meant that those on the front line could be adequalteky protected. Shameful

 

 

Edited March 22, 2020 by Dagger Is Back

[flecktimus]

	Italy		Uk
	Deaths		Deaths		Difference
22-Feb	1		2	07-Mar	-1
23-Feb	2		3	08-Mar	-1
24-Feb	3		5	09-Mar	-2
25-Feb	7		6	10-Mar	1
26-Feb	12		8	11-Mar	4
27-Feb	17		10	12-Mar	7
28-Feb	21		11	13-Mar	10
29-Feb	29		21	14-Mar	8
01-Mar	34		35	15-Mar	-1
02-Mar	52		55	16-Mar	-3
03-Mar	79		71	17-Mar	8
04-Mar	107		104	18-Mar	3
05-Mar	148		144	19-Mar	4
06-Mar	197		177	20-Mar	20
07-Mar	233		233	21-Mar	0
08-Mar	366			22-Mar
09-Mar	463			23-Mar
10-Mar	631			24-Mar
11-Mar	827			25-Mar
12-Mar	1015			26-Mar
13-Mar	1266			27-Mar
14-Mar	1441			28-Mar
15-Mar	1809			29-Mar
16-Mar	2158			30-Mar
17-Mar	2503
18-Mar	2979
19-Mar	3405
20-Mar	4032
21-Mar	4825

Edited March 22, 2020 by flecktimus

[Jambof3tornado]

1 hour ago, Dagger Is Back said:

No idea where this ‘it’s not acceptable to go out for a walk’ etc this is coming from.

 

At the moment I’d be filling my boots before they inevitable happens

 

Get out on your bike and go for a cycle, go for a run, jump in the car, park up and go for a walk

 

Just stay your distance and wash your paws.

 

Some woman was slated on social media for suggesting that a local group meet up in a park for some yoga

 

Keeping fit and active for physical and mental well being will be so important 

She was rightly slated. No grouping up is really not hard to comprehend. Yes they could space out etc...or they could just go and fekkin exercise alone rather than organising a group thing that we've been told not to.

 

Social distancing is easy generally, the shop thing is going to require better organising because standing in a big fekkin queue is just asking to be infected.

 

48 hours of amulance shifts for me in the next 5 days, and I'm shit scared of ending up in ICU with my head in a fukkin plastic bubble helmet whilst struggling to breathe!!

 

Yet some ***** are struggling to sit on their arses in the house!!!

[robbo1874]

Loads about lack of PPE for NHS staff.

FFS this is what makes me angry.

We ask people to put their own safety at risk yet can't give them vital equipment.

We really need our journalists to hold the government to account but we have a largely complicit MSM

I don't have faith that the government are getting held to account.

Our NHS workers deserve so much better than this

[robbo1874]

3 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

She was rightly slated. No grouping up is really not hard to comprehend. Yes they could space out etc...or they could just go and fekkin exercise alone rather than organising a group thing that we've been told not to.

 

Social distancing is easy generally, the shop thing is going to require better organising because standing in a big fekkin queue is just asking to be infected.

 

48 hours of amulance shifts for me in the next 5 days, and I'm shit scared of ending up in ICU with my head in a fukkin plastic bubble helmet whilst struggling to breathe!!

 

Yet some ***** are struggling to sit on their arses in the house!!!

Stay safe mate..

[Francis Albert]

14 hours ago, Mac_fae_Gillie said:

Saw a similar post last week'

620,000 died last year

1698 average a day

assuming the coronavirus is killing those most likely to be in that number this year and the next 2 years means over a 3 year period if the UK did the herd immunity plan less than 5000 would pass away more than would have. But the 280,000 number(worse case scenario) looked so politically bad the Government crapped out. 

This means unless the actual lockdown works, which people seem to be avoiding this virus is open ended until a cure is found(18months to 2years) which means NHS under 18months pressure letting other operations go on hold and actually increasing the 3 year total of dead.

When the Chief Medical Officer or one of the other advisors said 20,000 deaths would be a good outcome, or words to that effect, there was outrage and it was dismissed as "unacceptable" (whatever that means). Yet it seemed no more than common sense to me. It was based on a figure of 8000 or so deaths from annual seasonal flu. With a new virus of which little is known, there is little immunity in the population,  and crucially with no vaccine available,  20,000 seemed a modest estimate. 

The "double counting" or "overlap"  question is interesting and when I first read about I mused about whether total death rates would provide a clue. But of course current deaths as a proportion of the 50,000 who die every month are a minuscule percentage, well within the normal variability of numbers of deaths. It will not become clear until this is over (if then) how many have died who would not otherwise have died. 

And not least of the tragedy is that many if not most of those 50,000 who die "normally" each month without the aid of Coronavirus will soon be dying isolated and alone without the support of family and friends. 

Something to think about if you are struggling with being locked in (to a lesser extent than the vulnerable) for a few months.

[Dagger Is Back]

1 minute ago, Jambof3tornado said:

She was rightly slated. No grouping up is really not hard to comprehend. Yes they could space out etc...or they could just go and fekkin exercise alone rather than organising a group thing that we've been told not to.

 

Social distancing is easy generally, the shop thing is going to require better organising because standing in a big fekkin queue is just asking to be infected.

 

48 hours of amulance shifts for me in the next 5 days, and I'm shit scared of ending up in ICU with my head in a fukkin plastic bubble helmet whilst struggling to breathe!!

 

Yet some ***** are struggling to sit on their arses in the house!!!

 

Absolutely in your debt for what you and others are doing on the front line.  Yes they could go and do their own thing but because it's a very small group of half a dozen I reckon she thought it could be effectively managed for want of a better word. I hear you though.

 

Stay safe and thank you for all you do

[Norm]

1 hour ago, Dazo said:

If someone is sick or injured and can’t work how do they expect to earn ? Surely you should make provisions for when that day comes. Nothing out of touch here. 

Except people who aren't sick or injured have had their business closed down by the government, for what could be months, with limited chances of finding new employment, due to a once in a lifetime event. Who the **** prepares for that? 

 

 

[Jeff]

https://www.jpost.com/International/Israeli-doctor-in-Italy-We-no-longer-help-those-over-60-621856

 

Hope we are ready for this but on a larger scale.

[robbo1874]

8 minutes ago, Jeff said:

https://www.jpost.com/International/Israeli-doctor-in-Italy-We-no-longer-help-those-over-60-621856

 

Hope we are ready for this but on a larger scale.

It's already been talked about here according to a NHS worker I know.

The cut off age is 65 for palliative care only and if they are struggling it's going to 60! 

This person is in admin but has been asked to work on the wards to help free up proper nurses. They start their training on Monday.

Very sobering

Edited March 22, 2020 by robbo1874

[DETTY29]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

The current government won't last long when the deaths are in 3 figures a day and if this is correct and comes out.

 

Certainly Johnson and Cummings though they perhaps have a ready made replacement in Rishi Sunak. 

Johnson I suppose could turn this round and he has been getting better recently.

 

He needs as a minimum to sacrifice Cummings and according to my scientist sister in law, Vallance isn't really up to the job of Chief Scientific Officer either as he is an academic, capitalist rather than a scientist although to me his wiki CV anyway looks scientific to me.

 

Of course Cummings and Vallance are allies, friends.

 

America on the other hand, short of a coup are goosed.

Edited March 22, 2020 by DETTY29

[Jeff]

8 minutes ago, robbo1874 said:

It's already been talked about here according to a NHS worker I know.

The cut off age is 65 for palliative care only and if they are struggling it's going to 60! 

This person is in admin but has been asked to work on the wards to help free up proper nurses. They start their training on Monday.

Very sobering

 

Needs to be reported in the mainstream UK media. I think it might just be the catalyst which stops these selfish pricks going out and underestimating it

[Brighton Jambo]

2 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Johnson I suppose could turn this round and he has been getting better recently.

 

He needs as a minimum to sacrifice Cummings and according to my scientist sister in law, Vallance isn't really up to the job of Chief Scientific Officer either as he is an academic, capitalist rather than a scientist although to me his wiki CV anyway looks scientific to me.

 

Of course Cummings and Vallance are allies, friends.

 

America on the other hand, short of a coup are goosed.

There has definitely mis-steps but I have been reassured by the governments willingness to change tack in the medical side and to add to the financial package when it becomes clear what has been proposed doesn’t go far enough.

 

When all this is over I am sure the government will have difficult questions to answer but frankly so will the British public.  If we had/were relentlessly following the expert advice this would be half as bad as it’s going to get. 
 

the arrogance, ignorance and stupidity has been really dispiriting and actually will cause far more deaths than any other factor.  

[King prawn]

Quarantine extended a further 15 days here. Will be 30 in total pending any further extensions. 

[milky_26]

10 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Johnson I suppose could turn this round and he has been getting better recently.

 

He needs as a minimum to sacrifice Cummings and according to my scientist sister in law, Vallance isn't really up to the job of Chief Scientific Officer either as he is an academic, capitalist rather than a scientist although to me his wiki CV anyway looks scientific to me.

 

Of course Cummings and Vallance are allies, friends.

 

America on the other hand, short of a coup are goosed.

from the quick look ive just had it looks like at east for the last 20 years he has been in an admin/leadership role rather than a direct scientific one

[Jeff]

2 minutes ago, King prawn said:

Quarantine extended a further 15 days here. Will be 30 in total pending any further extensions. 

 

I assume it's just looked at on a rolling fortnight basis but when you hear about the virus still showing after 3 weeks it makes you wonder why they aren't doing this monthly.

[robbo1874]

4 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

Needs to be reported in the mainstream UK media. I think it might just be the catalyst which stops these selfish pricks going out and underestimating it

I said earlier in the thread shock tactics should have been used sooner.

 

[King prawn]

1 minute ago, Jeff said:

 

I assume it's just looked at on a rolling fortnight basis but when you hear about the virus still showing after 3 weeks it makes you wonder why they aren't doing this monthly.

I imagine it’s because hearing you’re being told to stay in doors for 2 weeks at a time is easier than hearing 1 month at a time. 

[vegas-voss]

1 minute ago, Jeff said:

 

Needs to be reported in the mainstream UK media. I think it might just be the catalyst which stops these selfish pricks going out and underestimating it

They still won't listen.They need it taken away and then some will still try and flaunt it 

[King prawn]

1 hour ago, Dazo said:

If someone is sick or injured and can’t work how do they expect to earn ? Surely you should make provisions for when that day comes. Nothing out of touch here. 

You are incredibly naive if you think that everyone can be in a position with money there ready in case something happens.

[vegas-voss]

This won't be over in 12 weeks here.No mass bleaching going on like there was in China for a start.

[The Internet]

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/gargling-eliminate-coronavirus/

 

In-laws have been spreading these shite claims on facebook, I'm not even on it and it's worked its way to me. They're about to be told to stop.