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Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

Wait, what? Measures lifted and still tears and snotters everywhere?

 

I genuinely fear for some folks. 

Yup.  These measures and restrictions that were never going to be lifted have been …. erm, lifted.

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Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

Wait, what? Measures lifted and still tears and snotters everywhere?

 

I genuinely fear for some folks. 

Measure which weren't necessary. Pay attention.  I see you still dont give  a damn about businesses etc. I'm sure they will be more than happy the " measures" are lifted if they still have a viable business. 

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The Real Maroonblood
21 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:


It’s quite unbelievable isn’t it.

She is unbelievable. 
she’s made no difference, only pain and misery on businesses and the public.  Bloody disgrace so she is. 
the dentist , her and that idiot health Secretary will be counting down the days they can play god again

She’s an awfy woman.

:lol:

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2 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Wait, what? Measures lifted and still tears and snotters everywhere?

 

I genuinely fear for some folks. 


of course it’s fantastic, it’s why they were not lifted sooner, or indeed put in place in the first place unnecessarily which rankles

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17 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

and her fan club too. This sums her up 

 

 

 

 

Really, James ?

You're using a tweet from that snake to make a point ?

A guy who, amongst other Tory slime tactics, voted against equal gay rights ? 

Have a go at Nicky till the cows come home but these people are beneath contempt.

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2 minutes ago, FWJ said:

You have nearly twice as many posts on this thread as the next nearest contributor.

I wonder who’ll miss it most.

That was before i knew how to multi quote so my postings are artificially high.. Well that's my excuse.

 

 

 

 

image-23-10-21-07-01-2.gif

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The Mighty Thor
Just now, JamesM48 said:

Measure which weren't necessary. Pay attention.  I see you still dont give  a damn about businesses etc. I'm sure they will be more than happy the " measures" are lifted if they still have a viable business. 

which have been lifted.

 

Be happy. You got what you've been whining about for the last 4 weeks. (not that you ever followed the guidance anyway) 

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Just now, Boab said:

 

Really, James ?

You're using a tweet from that snake to make a point ?

A guy who, amongst other Tory slime tactics, voted against equal gay rights ? 

Have a go at Nicky till the cows come home but these people are beneath contempt.

I don't vote with my penis. 

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Lord Montpelier
1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Measure which weren't necessary. Pay attention.  I see you still dont give  a damn about businesses etc. I'm sure they will be more than happy the " measures" are lifted if they still have a viable business. 

Correct. You can tell those who have been able to live an insulated existence during her latest round of protections (lol, can see through that word Sturgeon ya dafty, behavioural psychologists tell you to use that one ?). As have I to be fair, but like to think I try look out for others. 

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Nucky Thompson
2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

The blind guess and Captain Hindsight approach will yield the occasional veneer of gratification but it might not always.  Let's hope there will be no need for any more blind guesses.  If there is then some of you crystal ball gazers will leap in feet first again and you might not get the same gratification.

We didn't have to blind guess, we only had to take the South African data and scientists more seriously.

 

Even Whitty and Vallance weren't having it

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1 minute ago, Boab said:

😂

👍

I'm away to the game !

Have a good one. Come on the Heartzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 

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4 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

not that you ever followed the guidance anyway) 

 

 

 

image-23-10-21-07-07-7.jpeg

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1 minute ago, Nucky Thompson said:

We didn't have to blind guess, we only had to take the South African data and scientists more seriously.

 

Even Whitty and Vallance weren't having it

 

I knew this would be the reply.  The evidence was limited and not necessarily going to translate here.  You said it yourself,  even the most senior scientists in the country were cautious about putting too much faith in the South Africa evidence.

 

It's just more hindsight.

 

 

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Lord Montpelier
7 minutes ago, FWJ said:

Yup.  These measures and restrictions that were never going to be lifted have been …. erm, lifted.

Protections, not restrictions.  Have you not been listening attentively FWJ. ? 

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Lord Montpelier
1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

I knew this would be the reply.  The evidence was limited and not necessarily going to translate here.  You said it yourself,  even the most senior scientists in the country were cautious about putting too much faith in the South Africa evidence.

 

It's just more hindsight.

 

 

We either follow the science or we don't. The science from South Africa, both statistics and anecdotal, told us early doors this was not significant. Scotland (or more specifically Sturgeon) over reacted. 

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4 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Correct. You can tell those who have been able to live an insulated existence during her latest round of protections (lol, can see through that word Sturgeon ya dafty, behavioural psychologists tell you to use that one ?). As have I to be fair, but like to think I try look out for others. 

That's always sickened me . The lack of concern and empathy about those affected by the willy nilly  and pointless restrictions decreed from her and her Govt.  Zero concerns. I honestly think those were the ones sitting on their arse working from home  in lockdowns ,  drinking take away latte and doing zoom yoga on their lunch break whilst key workers like shop workers were facing the real challenges of the pandemic. Or even worse people struggling to get any furlough money due to them as the SG has made it so difficult to access, 

 

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1 minute ago, Lord Montpelier said:

We either follow the science or we don't. The science from South Africa, both statistics and anecdotal, told us early doors this was not significant. Scotland (or more specifically Sturgeon) over reacted. 

 

Not a true representation.  The evidence was limited and not enough to put the house on.  The scientists said they needed more study of UK data.  That's how it went.  It's gone much better than many predictions.  

 

The SG made precautionary measures.  Precautionary means there can't be an over-reaction.  Because it was a precaution.

 

England's path was imposed by backbenchers who weren't even party to SAGE and COBR committee briefings.

 

A blind guess and an ideological imposition that thankfully paid off.

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6 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

We either follow the science or we don't. The science from South Africa, both statistics and anecdotal, told us early doors this was not significant. Scotland (or more specifically Sturgeon) over reacted. 

She was just being " cautious" .  That word needs to be re defined in the  Scots wa hae dictionary 

 

" Cautious"..... noun ...to mean , over reacting and shitting ones drawers. " 

 

 

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Dennis Denuto
16 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

I don't vote with my penis. 

That’s not really the point though. You are going to find out that many of those you now happily quote and agree with in the right think that you are a lesser human than them because of what you do do with your penis.  
 

Covid isn’t the only show in town James. 

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2 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

That’s not really the point though. You are going to find out that many of those you now happily quote and agree with in the right think that you are a lesser human than them because of what you do do with your penis.  
 

Covid isn’t the only show in town James. 

 

That's precisely why Covid shouldn't have been drawn down traditional political ideology imo.

 

I agree with a lot of people on covid despite finding their views on other things abhorrent.

 

Part of my belief system on covid is personal responsibility and freedoms, which is consistent with believing someone should be free to express themselves without fear and as an equal as a homosexual, despite what others views on it may be. Those are consistent imo. Just because Stephen Kerr is inconsistent and imo wrong one one topic, doesn't mean he's by default wrong on another.

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41 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I'm talking about the omicron wave :thumbsup:

 

Boris kept his cool and made the other two clowns look stupid.

 

Shutting down football while England had full houses singing and dancing at the darts :rofl:

 

 


Shutting those morons down at the darts would have done us all a favour. State of them.
 

20 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

We didn't have to blind guess, we only had to take the South African data and scientists more seriously.

 

Even Whitty and Vallance weren't having it


The South African scientists strongly stated in their academic paper on their findings that it would not be scientific or well-advised to presume that the effects of Omicron would translate to the same outcome in a different country with different demographics and level of vaccinated cohorts. 

So we did exactly as you suggested and took the South African scientists & data seriously and applied a mildly cautious 3-week period of limited restrictions during which to assess our own data. You can play Captain Hindsight as much as you want but I'm not going to lose my shit over a 3-week period of limited precautions that was easily endured, set against taking a massive leap of faith when lives could have been at risk. 

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14 minutes ago, Victorian said:

England's path was imposed by backbenchers

Don't you mean scrutiny,  accountability and transparency ?  All sadly lacking with the SG 

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Ex member of the SaS
14 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Not a true representation.  The evidence was limited and not enough to put the house on.  The scientists said they needed more study of UK data.  That's how it went.  It's gone much better than many predictions.  

 

The SG made precautionary measures.  Precautionary means there can't be an over-reaction.  Because it was a precaution.

 

England's path was imposed by backbenchers who weren't even party to SAGE and COBR committee briefings.

 

A blind guess and an ideological imposition that thankfully paid off.

In SA they had more cases with Aids and still saw it was less of a problem, they claimed you could not translate the figures to here. BUT we don't have the same Aids problems and we have a far larger vaccinated population. Therefore any dafty could see they were over reacting. No matter your views on the virus surely it was clear they put restrictions ( sorry protections )  in place that were way over the top( 500 at football).

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6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Don't you mean scrutiny,  accountability and transparency ?  All sadly lacking with the SG 

 

Nope.  That's what the hard of thinking like you swallowed hook,  line and sinker.  It was and still is an imposed half nelson on the government.  The government is prevented from bringing a vote to the house on restrictions.  MPs denied their vote in parliament.  The very opposite of accountability.

 

The Tory ideologues are in charge and nobody has any opportunity to hold them to scrutiny.

 

Idiots bought the bullshit about them merely representing their voters,  etc.

Edited by Victorian
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12 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

That’s not really the point though. You are going to find out that many of those you now happily quote and agree with in the right think that you are a lesser human than them because of what you do do with your penis.  
 

Covid isn’t the only show in town James. 

As i said my sexual orientation does not define every aspect of my politics or outlook in life.  Therefore the comment about not voting with my penis. I don't give a damn about Kerrs views about gay people, its irrelevant  but i do give  a damn about his views about covid and restrictions. As I've said time and again im a libertarian and believe people are perfectly entitled to their beliefs however much i disagree with them.  I really wish people would stop bringing that straw man argument into any debates I have had about covid.

 

The thread is regarding covid therefore is the only show in town on this thread as far as I am concerned. 

 

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10 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

That's precisely why Covid shouldn't have been drawn down traditional political ideology imo.

 

I agree with a lot of people on covid despite finding their views on other things abhorrent.

 

Part of my belief system on covid is personal responsibility and freedoms, which is consistent with believing someone should be free to express themselves without fear and as an equal as a homosexual, despite what others views on it may be. Those are consistent imo. Just because Stephen Kerr is inconsistent and imo wrong one one topic, doesn't mean he's by default wrong on another.

well said.

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5 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

In SA they had more cases with Aids and still saw it was less of a problem, they claimed you could not translate the figures to here. BUT we don't have the same Aids problems and we have a far larger vaccinated population. Therefore any dafty could see they were over reacting. No matter your views on the virus surely it was clear they put restrictions ( sorry protections )  in place that were way over the top( 500 at football).

 

There was more to it than that.  There's quite a difference in the age distribution and there had been a recent large wave of Delta in S.A.  That helped their overall immunity.

 

Still hindsight.

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Ex member of the SaS
6 minutes ago, Gizmo said:


Shutting those morons down at the darts would have done us all a favour. State of them.
 


The South African scientists strongly stated in their academic paper on their findings that it would not be scientific or well-advised to presume that the effects of Omicron would translate to the same outcome in a different country with different demographics and level of vaccinated cohorts. 

So we did exactly as you suggested and took the South African scientists & data seriously and applied a mildly cautious 3-week period of limited restrictions during which to assess our own data. You can play Captain Hindsight as much as you want but I'm not going to lose my shit over a 3-week period of limited precautions that was easily endured, set against taking a massive leap of faith when lives could have been at risk. 

That's the problem with your way of thinking, It's only three weeks ( what happened to three weeks to flatten the curve? ) It's the thin edge of the wedge whereby once Governments get away with something they go a step further. How many it's only xxx before you get to the haud oan a minute situation?

They stated they would NEVER have ID cards in this country but we now have covid passports and how long before they introduce ID cards?

Oh you can claim you have a driver's license etc. but you are not required to carry one. ID cards will be compulsory.

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Lord Montpelier
21 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Not a true representation.  The evidence was limited and not enough to put the house on.  The scientists said they needed more study of UK data.  That's how it went.  It's gone much better than many predictions.  

 

The SG made precautionary measures.  Precautionary means there can't be an over-reaction.  Because it was a precaution.

 

England's path was imposed by backbenchers who weren't even party to SAGE and COBR committee briefings.

 

A blind guess and an ideological imposition that thankfully paid off.

I like scientists.  I really do. Got a lot of time for them. Fascinating stuff, particularly physics, many of them have amazing intelligence I could only dream of. 

 

But... your points here are only more evidence for me anyway that some very vocal scientists need put back in their box / laboratories or at very least challenged strongly by more pragmatic actors. 

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3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Nope.  That's what the hard of thinking like you swallowed hook,  line and sinker.  It was and still is an imposed half nelson on the government.  The government is prevented from bringing a vote to the house on restrictions.  MPs denied their vote in parliament.  The very opposite of accountability.

 

The Tory ideologues are in charge and nobody has any opportunity to hold them to scrutiny.

 

Idiots bought the bullshit about them merely representing their voters,  etc.

well irrespective of why they decided not to lockdown it was the right thing to do. So that's fine with me and i assume most English. 

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Ex member of the SaS
Just now, Victorian said:

 

There was more to it than that.  There's quite a difference in the age distribution and there had been a recent large wave of Delta in S.A.  That helped their overall immunity.

 

Still hindsight.

Nothing to do with hindsight. Some of us have been banging on for weeks/ months.

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13 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

Shutting those morons down at the darts would have done us all a favour. State of them.

 

image-23-10-21-07-07-6.jpeg

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Just now, Lord Montpelier said:

I like scientists.  I really do. Got a lot of time for them. Fascinating stuff, particularly physics, many of them have amazing intelligence I could only dream of. 

 

But... your points here are only more evidence for me anyway that some very vocal scientists need put back in their box / laboratories or at very least challenged strongly by more pragmatic actors. 

 

Even John Edmunds got it wrong on this one.  He's been one of the more savvy guys throughout.  He never usually commits himself without good cause but he was very down about Omicron.  He got it wrong.

 

This wholesale bullshit about putting scientists in their place is abysmal.  Science anarchism that will bite us on the arse in the future if something ever happens.

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4 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

I like scientists.  I really do. Got a lot of time for them. Fascinating stuff, particularly physics, many of them have amazing intelligence I could only dream of. 

 

But... your points here are only more evidence for me anyway that some very vocal scientists need put back in their box / laboratories or at very least challenged strongly by more pragmatic actors. 

👍👌

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3 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Nothing to do with hindsight. Some of us have been banging on for weeks/ months.

 

As a blind punt.  It has yielded a perceived victory.  

 

I can call heads or tails and win roughly half the time.

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Lord Montpelier
2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Even John Edmunds got it wrong on this one.  He's been one of the more savvy guys throughout.  He never usually commits himself without good cause but he was very down about Omicron.  He got it wrong.

 

This wholesale bullshit about putting scientists in their place is abysmal.  Science anarchism that will bite us on the arse in the future if something ever happens.

Your right on science anarchism. I agree, wouldn't want that. But - to help prevent this I'd suggest some scientists try read the room a bit and wind their collective necks in as some , myself included, are now thinking they've outlived their 15 minutes of fame and need to return to their previous obscurity.

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1 minute ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Your right on science anarchism. I agree, wouldn't want that. But - to help prevent this I'd suggest some scientists try read the room a bit and wind their collective necks in as some , myself included, are now thinking they've outlived their 15 minutes of fame and need to return to their previous obscurity.

 

Don't buy it.  We'll always need these scientists and they can't perform their functions in a climate of censorship or even fear of getting things wrong.  It's a bloody terrible idea.

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Lord Montpelier
36 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Don't buy it.  We'll always need these scientists and they can't perform their functions in a climate of censorship or even fear of getting things wrong.  It's a bloody terrible idea.

They've proven recently they can't perform their function without being overly cautious also. They need held to account in ways all other professions are. 

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1 hour ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

That's the problem with your way of thinking, It's only three weeks ( what happened to three weeks to flatten the curve? ) It's the thin edge of the wedge whereby once Governments get away with something they go a step further. How many it's only xxx before you get to the haud oan a minute situation?

They stated they would NEVER have ID cards in this country but we now have covid passports and how long before they introduce ID cards?

Oh you can claim you have a driver's license etc. but you are not required to carry one. ID cards will be compulsory.


Thin edge of the wedge? I beg to differ - and I don't have a "way of thinking", I have a clear and consistent view, based on what I hear, read, see and experience - derived from a wide range of sources. 

I bet I was one of a mere handful on this thread who actually read the SA Omicron paper.

The Scottish Govt, the Welsh Govt, the N Irish government, the French govt, the Swedish govt etc etc all took a pragmatic, initially cautious approach, based on the known facts and also because it was an emergent situation, to allow them to assess the impact on their own countries, with their unique combination of demographics, vaccination levels etc.  

We've done this and we have NOT went "haud on a minute", we've went - good, the data is confirming that mild restrictions against a variant that has been less harmful to our populace but wildly transmissible, have not been very effective. Nor is a heavily restrictive lockdown indicated as being a proportionate or useful approach. So we unlock these milder restrictions. What is there to be angry about, exactly - this is the measured response I would expect of a functioning government. 

A sensible, cautious but adaptable approach whilst we give ourselves a little time to assess the impact on us and ingather data. 

So I'll rebutt your jibe about my problematic thinking and suggest that if one of us needs a rethink, it's not me. 

Edited by Gizmo
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9 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

They've proven recently they can't perform their function without being overly cautious also. They need held to account in ways all other professions are. 

 

Nope.  Because there are seldom any exacts and certainties in their fields.  They get things wrong sometimes.  The better plan is for people to grow up to the world and tolerate it.  

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The Real Maroonblood
25 minutes ago, Gizmo said:


Thin edge of the wedge? I beg to differ - and I don't have a "way of thinking", I have a clear and consistent view, based on what I hear, read, see and experience - derived from a wide range of sources. 

I bet I was one of a mere handful on this thread who actually read the SA Omicron paper.

The Scottish Govt, the Welsh Govt, the N Irish government, the French govt, the Swedish govt etc etc all took a pragmatic, initially cautious approach, based on the known facts and also because it was an emergent situation, to allow them to assess the impact on their own countries, with their unique combination of demographics, vaccination levels etc.  

We've done this and we have NOT went "haud on a minute", we've went - good, the data is confirming that mild restrictions against a variant that has been less harmful to our populace but wildly transmissible, have not been very effective. Nor is a heavily restrictive lockdown indicated as being a proportionate or useful approach. So we unlock these milder restrictions. What is there to be angry about, exactly - this is the measured response I would expect of a functioning government. 

A sensible, cautious but adaptable approach whilst we give ourselves a little time to assess the impact on us and ingather data. 

So I'll rebutt your jibe about my problematic thinking and suggest that if one of us needs a rethink, it's not me. 

Excellent post. 

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1 hour ago, Lord Montpelier said:

I like scientists.  I really do. Got a lot of time for them. Fascinating stuff, particularly physics, many of them have amazing intelligence I could only dream of. 

 

But... your points here are only more evidence for me anyway that some very vocal scientists need put back in their box / laboratories or at very least challenged strongly by more pragmatic actors. 

 

We're in this position because scientists have been 'put in their box' and ignored. Virologists have been predicting another pandemic and the part of the world it would come from for decades. COVID should be a wake up call to listen to people that know what they're talking about but, we're still stuck in the sick of experts mindset.

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Lord Montpelier
12 minutes ago, Bindy Badgy said:

 

We're in this position because scientists have been 'put in their box' and ignored. Virologists have been predicting another pandemic and the part of the world it would come from for decades. COVID should be a wake up call to listen to people that know what they're talking about but, we're still stuck in the sick of experts mindset.

Science is a good thing. However #some# of our scientists actions and motivations have been questionable at best recently . Its those ones that need to retire from the public limelight  . Like any field of expertise, some are good, others less so. 

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2 hours ago, Victorian said:

 

As a blind punt.  It has yielded a perceived victory.  

 

I can call heads or tails and win roughly half the time.

 

I don't entirely disagree with you on this but taking a stance based on some data is less of a blind punt than taking the opposite stance based on no data.

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Nucky Thompson
5 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Boris is the only ***** found out . And England has the worst numbers. But keep talking shite. 👍

At least the Welsh media question their useless government regarding restrictions 

 

 

Did Mark Drakeford's strict Covid rules in Wales over the New Year make any difference? - Wales Online

 

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