Victorian Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Pretty sure many millions of people have come under a set of extra restrictions since the 50,000 figure was offered. 50,000 was a figure based on introducing no further measures. As people no doubt know already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 1 minute ago, jonesy said: No need to argue, though. Discuss, adapt, understand. It's not a binary decision. If folk stopped wearing masks tomorrow, not everyone 'weak and vulnerable' would keel over and die. Sensible, self-made decisions would ensure that people are both protected and, just as importantly, protect themselves. The morality of decisions made around public health, and the - sometimes unintended/unforeseen consequences - are nuanced and virtually impossible to judge from a short term perspective. Which is why I would advocate as gentle a touch as possible from all those in decision making capacities. Whether that makes me right wing or not, I truly don't care. I did vote SSP a couple of elections ago, so my own spectrum probably requires recalibration. I'm not saying that its a binary decision. How can it be when there is so much change and so much we don't know? That's why I totally agree with your notion of a gentle touch. What I can't understand is the reluctance and in some cases flat out refusal to follow the measures designed to restrict the spread. I would imagine that it is this adherence to gentle touch that Scotland has been pursuing well. There has been less threat of fines and police involvement in Scotland and the daily briefings have been designed to support this strategy. They are information giving sessions with those responsible for the policies allowing themselves to be scrutinised by the press. If people are informed and reasoning explained the they are much more likely to play along. I would imagine that this is at least part of the reason the death rate in England, according to TT is 40% higher. I can't see why people would resist containment measures when they know that they work and will allow greater normality more quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, coconut doug said: I can't see why people would resist containment measures when they know that they work and will allow greater normality more quickly. Because we never know when they will end. The goal posts get changed every other day. So people are naturally suspicious of the SG and the British G. I dont know about you but most of the people i know are adhering to the restrictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Just now, JamesM48 said: Because we never know when they will end. The goal posts get changed every other day. So people are naturally suspicious of the SG and the British G. I dont know about you but most of the people i know are adhering to the restrictions. The quicker you get the numbers under control, the quicker the restrictions will end. There are many,many reasons to distrust SG and hmg and this imo is way down the list. The actions they are taking are similar to those taken elsewhere and are generally logical to the point of being obvious. The rules change according to circumstances, that's obvious too. If you are worried about civil liberty or the lack of it you should have a look at what's happening to Julian Assange or Craig Murray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, coconut doug said: The quicker you get the numbers under control, the quicker the restrictions will end. There are many,many reasons to distrust SG and hmg and this imo is way down the list. The actions they are taking are similar to those taken elsewhere and are generally logical to the point of being obvious. The rules change according to circumstances, that's obvious too. If you are worried about civil liberty or the lack of it you should have a look at what's happening to Julian Assange or Craig Murray. " logical" ? Closing down regulated, safe pubs so people cant congregate so then people well, congregate in houses which are less safe and unregulated. Seems very illogical to me. There are various other illogical restrictions too. Not against mask wearing, social distancing etc but some of the restrictions are comical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 1 hour ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said: you’ve become the numbers man unfortunately/unintentionally im guessing the breakdowns of where folk catch the virus is not easily available (even if believable) ? also was wondering if a breakdown of fully-face masked versus filthy non-mask wearer present in the catching locations available my own experience is that too many people wearing face masks now believe themselves and the people they are 2cm from to be bomb-proof presumably due to the flimsy cloth shields if we had to choose only one do we know if distancing is more or less effective than face masks seems using both (arguably the ideal) is too much for a lot of people to take on board one of the key skills of managers etc (particularly in football) is judging how simple/clear introductions need to be for a player/employee/follower to carry out what is required the face mask thing needs a re-think or distancing properly ‘policed’ - just my experience maybe it’s working well elsewhere It just takes me 5 minutes each day, MMM. Glad to contribute the data. The daily infection and death stats are broken down to local council area - see the Local Data tab on https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/ for more info. Historical death data is also available for subdistricts within council areas (see the Additional Death Data tab on the site) - you can find the data for Marchmont West for example, if you so desire. It takes a while for the latter to filter through though. I agree with you that distancing + adequate face mask seems the most sensible approach, but you'll find others who disagree. I know this may seem a bit "out there", but in my opinion eventually a great number of those who don't follow the safety guidelines will catch the virus and thus, assuming that reinfection remains a minimal risk, this will become less of a problem over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Internet Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 It's amazing that we still have completely unreliable numbers reported at weekends after 7 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 31 minutes ago, coconut doug said: The quicker you get the numbers under control, the quicker the restrictions will end. There are many,many reasons to distrust SG and hmg and this imo is way down the list. The actions they are taking are similar to those taken elsewhere and are generally logical to the point of being obvious. The rules change according to circumstances, that's obvious too. If you are worried about civil liberty or the lack of it you should have a look at what's happening to Julian Assange or Craig Murray. I think the public is starting to feel fatigue and distrust of information from both SG and WM. People need to have confidence that decisions are transparent and backed up by the data. We have seen evidence that misleading data on hospitality infections have been given based on U.S. studies of 25% when data on Birmingham UK was actually 2%. That is dishonest and reminiscent of the dodgy dossier for the Iraq war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N Lincs Jambo Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 10 minutes ago, frankblack said: I think the public is starting to feel fatigue and distrust of information from both SG and WM. People need to have confidence that decisions are transparent and backed up by the data. We have seen evidence that misleading data on hospitality infections have been given based on U.S. studies of 25% when data on Birmingham UK was actually 2%. That is dishonest and reminiscent of the dodgy dossier for the Iraq war. Spot on Frank. I saw that the challenge the Liverpool Gym owners put against their being locked down again was 78 "cases" (I don't trust the term case tbh) against 22 Million gym visits since Covid guidance was in place allowing gyms to reopen. That's without going into all the false positives that Dr Mike Yeadon talked about last month. He estimates the number of false positives to be between 86% and 94% and called for PCR tests to be withdrawn immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Labour Party hibsing it with Starmer criticising the government for not locking down but refusing to criticise Andy Stalin Byrnam and his labour council for arguing against further restrictions - labour always hamstrung by far left activists and unions - can never be trusted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) It seems to me current policies could as well be aimed to conserve the virus. Maintain its environment by keeping as many healthy potential victims protected as we can and reducing the risk of widespread immunity which would kill.the virus.. The uttrely minuscule number of second infections suggest immunity is common and real. Edited October 18, 2020 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 I wonder if journalists and tv news and daytime tv personalities were told not to work if a more positive spin would suddenly appear - they seem to be drifting through the crisis making more dosh than usual whilst telling us how bad things are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 38 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said: It's amazing that we still have completely unreliable numbers reported at weekends after 7 months. Agreed. The ecomomy trashed, tens of thousands dead, yet we can't count numbers because it is the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Internet Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Will probably still be low numbers tomorrow then on Tuesday it'll catch up and we'll be hit with like 3k cases and 50 deaths just to depress the **** out of everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 So according to this article herd immunity has only ever been obtained through vaccination. https://www.newscientist.com/article/2257258-it-is-bad-science-to-say-covid-19-infections-will-create-herd-immunity/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N Lincs Jambo Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 29 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said: One thing I've always thought about this false positive thing is that surely there would be massive amounts of re-infection 'cases' if that was happening on the scale you have mentioned. Why would you think that Brian? Also although I mentioned it, (ie the false positives), it came from Dr Mike Yeadon formerly Chief Scientific Officer and VP at Pfizer, so I can’t lay claim to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 16 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: It seems to me current policies could as well be aimed to conserve the virus. Maintain its environment by keeping as many healthy potential victims protected as we can and reducing the risk of widespread immunity which would kill.the virus.. The uttrely minuscule number of second infections suggest immunity is common and real. Aside from some of the hilarious content, you raise an interesting point regarding reinfection. They say that the ONS antibody survey shows about 10% or so having the antibody. This survey carries very high confidence amongst the scientists. So from that we could theorise that 10% of the population have been infected within a time period whereby their antibody presence still exists. They also said that immunity would not be long lived. Sometimes estimated at 3-4 months. I'm not sure if the antibody can still register a positive result while no longer providing any immunity. At the moment, because of the virtually zero rate of reinfections in the UK, I'm tending to think that immunity is longer lived than had been suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac_fae_Gillie Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 59 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said: It's amazing that we still have completely unreliable numbers reported at weekends after 7 months. Its not just about numbers its about, autopsy been done and results been passed on to health authority. Fair dos the hospital know if a patient died had the virus but the exact cuss of death has to be properly logged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 9 minutes ago, Victorian said: Aside from some of the hilarious content, you raise an interesting point regarding reinfection. They say that the ONS antibody survey shows about 10% or so having the antibody. This survey carries very high confidence amongst the scientists. So from that we could theorise that 10% of the population have been infected within a time period whereby their antibody presence still exists. They also said that immunity would not be long lived. Sometimes estimated at 3-4 months. I'm not sure if the antibody can still register a positive result while no longer providing any immunity. At the moment, because of the virtually zero rate of reinfections in the UK, I'm tending to think that immunity is longer lived than had been suggested. When the first alleged case of reinfection in America is headline news around the world I think it is safe to assume it is so rare as to be insignificant. As yet of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: When the first alleged case of reinfection in America is headline news around the world I think it is safe to assume it is so rare as to be insignificant. As yet of course. What been reported worldwide 10 or so certainly no more than that that has made the news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Just now, Francis Albert said: When the first alleged case of reinfection in America is headline news around the world I think it is safe to assume it is so rare as to be insignificant. As yet of course. Yes it's very rare. Nobody is arguing differently. You said immunity is common. It does not appear to be common at all. The ONS survey is picking up a consistent result of about 10%. Another thing is the growing numbers of infections. If immunity was common then people would not be getting infected at the increasing rate that they are, because people would not be coming into contact with infectious people transmitting virus. CV is not particularly infectious and as a result, a percentage of immunity of about 60% would see it quickly reduced to near zero. No reinfections is not a result of common immunity. It might be because immunity is lasting about 6 months or more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, Victorian said: Yes it's very rare. Nobody is arguing differently. You said immunity is common. It does not appear to be common at all. The ONS survey is picking up a consistent result of about 10%. Another thing is the growing numbers of infections. If immunity was common then people would not be getting infected at the increasing rate that they are, because people would not be coming into contact with infectious people transmitting virus. CV is not particularly infectious and as a result, a percentage of immunity of about 60% would see it quickly reduced to near zero. No reinfections is not a result of common immunity. It might be because immunity is lasting about 6 months or more. Well six months is a start. If after over six months of widespread infection there have been virtually zero re-infections doesn't that suggest a fair degree of immunity for those infected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Well six months is a start. If after over six months of widespread infection there have been virtually zero re-infections doesn't that suggest a fair degree of immunity for those infected? That's what I just said. Eyes not doing the job for you again FA? Yes, could suggest decent news perhaps. The longer the immunity, the less prevalent it will become, eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 10 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said: As a false positive means the person did not have Covid when tested, therefore you would expect a large amount off them would contract Covid later and test positive again, correctly this time. This guy might have been talking about testing positive for non virulent infections, which is not a false positive New research has discovered that coronavirus tests may be finding dead traces from weeks-old infections, resulting in false positives that inflate the scale of the pandemic. The study was carried out by experts from the University of Oxford’s Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine and the University of the West of England. It found there was a risk of “false positives” because of how Covid-19 testing is being conducted. The scientists discovered that, despite people with Covid-19 being infectious for only around a week, one test used to detect the disease can still give a positive reading weeks after the patient has recovered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 Covid denying 'influencer' dies of... well I'm sure you can guess. https://news.sky.com/story/influencer-dmitriy-stuzhuk-dies-from-covid-19-after-denying-its-existence-12107174 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 2 hours ago, frankblack said: I think the public is starting to feel fatigue and distrust of information from both SG and WM. People need to have confidence that decisions are transparent and backed up by the data. We have seen evidence that misleading data on hospitality infections have been given based on U.S. studies of 25% when data on Birmingham UK was actually 2%. That is dishonest and reminiscent of the dodgy dossier for the Iraq war. I'm not defending anybody using dishonest data and i'm not sure why anybody would want to. This is why i have a reasonable amount of confidence in the Scottish government when the say that hospitality accounts for a significant amount of human interactions and that the reason they are closing is because reducing human interactions reduces the potential for the spread of the virus. Presumably all the other countries and regions now imposing restrictions are doing so for valid reasons as well. I couldn't accept that the data you attribute to Birmingham (2%) is robust. Answers to the question of how much infection comes from hospitality have not been defiitive in any way. Leitch told us he doesn't know and you can't know who was infected where, merely that you are more likely to become infected the more interactions you have. The Scottish government have conducted research and published findings to show where social interactions take place and have concluded that hospitality plays a significant part. It is for that reason pubs and restaurants are closed. The decision making in scotland has been transparent (see daily briefing) and backed up by data. They are not able though to tell exactly where each individual contracted the disease and as far as i can see neither is anybody else. You will also be aware that the Scottish government played no part in the compilation of the dodgy dossier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Internet Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 39 minutes ago, Ray Gin said: Covid denying 'influencer' dies of... well I'm sure you can guess. https://news.sky.com/story/influencer-dmitriy-stuzhuk-dies-from-covid-19-after-denying-its-existence-12107174 The best satirical minds couldn't come up with a better metaphor for the current state of the poisonous social-media-riddled world than this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 3 hours ago, JamesM48 said: " logical" ? Closing down regulated, safe pubs so people cant congregate so then people well, congregate in houses which are less safe and unregulated. Seems very illogical to me. There are various other illogical restrictions too. Not against mask wearing, social distancing etc but some of the restrictions are comical. These pubs are regulated are they and declared safe? Who does that? I've been in pubs and seen what it was like and many were a disgrace. People are not supposed to congregate in each others houses. If they observed the rules the infection rates would drop and the pubs would reopen. If some people are not responsible in their behaviour they are the last people you want to be in a pub with. Is that logical? As for the comical restrictions well i dont know of any but i am aware that drawing lines has created anomalies i.e the cafe/restaurant argument or using the toilet in someone else's house. What is comical is listening to people trying to circumvent the rules and either pretending not to or being incapable of understanding the reason these rule exist in the first place. It's like listening to a twelve year old shouting and stamping their feet demanding their mum buys them expensive trainers. Maybe the mother can't afford it and maybe we can't afford to open the boozers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavySlaveJambo Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Francis Albert said: It seems to me current policies could as well be aimed to conserve the virus. Maintain its environment by keeping as many healthy potential victims protected as we can and reducing the risk of widespread immunity which would kill.the virus.. The uttrely minuscule number of second infections suggest immunity is common and real. It depends how long inmunity lasts. For the common cold viruses (some of which are coronaviruses) it doesn’t last long at all. However we are still less than a year since the virus started circulating in humans so the data is only there on short term immunity not long term. 1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said: one test used to detect the disease can still give a positive reading weeks after the patient has recovered. If you are looking for viral RNA it is evidence of the virus being or having been present. They may no longer be infectious but they are still carrying the viral RNA and therefore either have or have had Covid. That is not a false positive. That is at worst delayed testing. Edited October 18, 2020 by CavySlaveJambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Brian Dundas said: That is not a false positive. If you say so but I'm tending to lean toward the boffins expertise here and not a JKB person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) Good on Andy Burnham for calling out the PM for exaggerating the "gravity" of Covid in Manchester. About time someone called them out for the scaremongering. Cases in Manchester have gone down in the last week and, dodgy US dossiers aside, the evidence points to less than 4% of infections occurring in hospitality settings. Edited October 18, 2020 by Enzo Chiefo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo 4 Ever Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 https://www.joe.co.uk/fitness-health/fitness-influencer-dies-covid-19-253402 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 13 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said: Good on Andy Burnham for calling out the PM for exaggerating the "gravity" of Covid in Manchester. About time someone called them out for the scaremongering. Cases in Manchester have gone down in the last week and, dodgy US dossiers aside, the evidence points to less than 4% of infections occurring in hospitality settings. Oxymoron alert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Victorian said: That's what I just said. Eyes not doing the job for you again FA? Yes, could suggest decent news perhaps. The longer the immunity, the less prevalent it will become, eventually. You said immunity was not common at all. I suggested that might not be so. And on the evidence from the virtually zero re infections seems not to.be so. Edited October 18, 2020 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irufushi Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 27 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said: https://www.joe.co.uk/fitness-health/fitness-influencer-dies-covid-19-253402 One of your fellow doom merchant brigade has already posted it, pal. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) Contrast Agela Merkel with a bog standard blue mask with Nicolala's tartan mask with her NS mameplate signature . Edited October 18, 2020 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 4 hours ago, Francis Albert said: Agreed. The ecomomy trashed, tens of thousands dead, yet we can't count numbers because it is the weekend. They can't even use the excuse of a heavy weekend at the pub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back to 2005 Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 48 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said: https://www.joe.co.uk/fitness-health/fitness-influencer-dies-covid-19-253402 Mmmm.....body builder who died of heart failure and who has probably filled himself full of steroids is a Covid death. Really need an autopsy for cases like this instead of the poor sod being used as media propaganda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) https://metro.co.uk/2020/10/18/greater-manchesters-hospitals-are-running-out-of-beds-leaked-nhs-paper-says-13441924/?ito=push-notification&ci=42045&si=18171904 True , false conveniently leaked by Government with ongoing row with local councillors ? Edited October 18, 2020 by vegas-voss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Boy Named Crow Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 3 hours ago, coconut doug said: These pubs are regulated are they and declared safe? Who does that? I've been in pubs and seen what it was like and many were a disgrace. People are not supposed to congregate in each others houses. If they observed the rules the infection rates would drop and the pubs would reopen. If some people are not responsible in their behaviour they are the last people you want to be in a pub with. Is that logical? As for the comical restrictions well i dont know of any but i am aware that drawing lines has created anomalies i.e the cafe/restaurant argument or using the toilet in someone else's house. What is comical is listening to people trying to circumvent the rules and either pretending not to or being incapable of understanding the reason these rule exist in the first place. It's like listening to a twelve year old shouting and stamping their feet demanding their mum buys them expensive trainers. Maybe the mother can't afford it and maybe we can't afford to open the boozers. This is spot on. The view from the outside is that the UK has become a nation of spoilt children. When this all started, all the country had to do was close the border and have a period of lockdown. Covid would have been gone and a world of pain avoided. As this seemed utterly unacceptable, covid got worse. Subsequently, there have been countless missed opportunities to tighten up the restrictions, every time the public are faced with some short term pain to slow/defeat the virus the reaction has been tears and tantrums. It just seems like a very myopic reaction! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 10 hours ago, Brian Dundas said: One thing I've always thought about this false positive thing is that surely there would be massive amounts of re-infection 'cases' if that was happening on the scale you have mentioned. Maybe there are massive amounts of re-infection 'cases' but like other Covid viruses any re-infection is much milder due to the body having some immunity, so mild that it is asymptomatic so sufferers are not getting tested as they are unaware they have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Francis Albert said: Contrast Agela Merkel with a bog standard blue mask with Nicolala's tartan mask with her NS mameplate signature . Bad Angela not wearing a German flagged mask. Edited October 19, 2020 by The Real Maroonblood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Internet Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 8 hours ago, Back to 2005 said: Mmmm.....body builder who died of heart failure and who has probably filled himself full of steroids is a Covid death. Really need an autopsy for cases like this instead of the poor sod being used as media propaganda. Shouldn't have been spreading his own shite propaganda in the first place then really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 14 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said: Bad Angela not wearing a German flagged mask. She's a Hamburg supporter. 😜 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 9 hours ago, Francis Albert said: You said immunity was not common at all. I suggested that might not be so. And on the evidence from the virtually zero re infections seems not to.be so. It can't be common. If immunity was common then there would not be the increasing spread of virus. The lack of reinfections must be a result of a reasonably long lasting immunity in those already infected. Immunity can only be present in a small percentage. Nowhere near enough to be described as common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 10 hours ago, coconut doug said: I'm not defending anybody using dishonest data and i'm not sure why anybody would want to. This is why i have a reasonable amount of confidence in the Scottish government when the say that hospitality accounts for a significant amount of human interactions and that the reason they are closing is because reducing human interactions reduces the potential for the spread of the virus. The example I gave was WM, in fairness. 10 hours ago, coconut doug said: Presumably all the other countries and regions now imposing restrictions are doing so for valid reasons as well. I couldn't accept that the data you attribute to Birmingham (2%) is robust. Answers to the question of how much infection comes from hospitality have not been defiitive in any way. Leitch told us he doesn't know and you can't know who was infected where, merely that you are more likely to become infected the more interactions you have. The Scottish government have conducted research and published findings to show where social interactions take place and have concluded that hospitality plays a significant part. It is for that reason pubs and restaurants are closed. The decision making in scotland has been transparent (see daily briefing) and backed up by data. They are not able though to tell exactly where each individual contracted the disease and as far as i can see neither is anybody else. You will also be aware that the Scottish government played no part in the compilation of the dodgy dossier. In theory it is not too complicated to relate track and trace information gathered in hospitality and the apps along with positive tests and requests to isolate. This assumes you have cross-referenced data in a database and not an Excel spreadsheet... If someone tests positive you can check which hospitality establishments they signed into and cross-check with subsequent positive tests for others who were there at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 24 minutes ago, ri Alban said: She's a Hamburg supporter. 😜 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE16 3LN Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 7 hours ago, A Boy Named Crow said: This is spot on. The view from the outside is that the UK has become a nation of spoilt children. When this all started, all the country had to do was close the border and have a period of lockdown. Covid would have been gone and a world of pain avoided. As this seemed utterly unacceptable, covid got worse. Subsequently, there have been countless missed opportunities to tighten up the restrictions, every time the public are faced with some short term pain to slow/defeat the virus the reaction has been tears and tantrums. It just seems like a very myopic reaction! I speak to Spanish, Italian, German, French etc. etc. people regularly and they say the same about their own countries. We are not unique. Your callous assessment of unemployment and people's reaction to it says more about you than the people of the UK. I have friends who lost their jobs in hospitality, they are in their late 50's early 60's. They won't work again. To you they're angry, Spoilt *******s. I suggest that makes you the one with the problem, not them. My local pub shut two weeks after opening hours were restricted. 8 people unemployed, 4 of whom will also be homeless within a month. You carry on with your heartless approach and I'll continue caring for those who suffer because of an approach to corona virus which is far from scientific. Challenging our governments is not childish, its a key part of democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 (edited) What's the definition of immunity? Are people who are asymptomatic immune? It's not something if ever really though about before but I read a national geographic article and found the blurring of immune system response and 'immunity' quite confusing. I think I assumed immunity meant you didn't catch something but if you catch something and you body fights it without symptoms that seems like the same? Or does the virus not even try to effect immune people? Edit: apologies for my Monday morning brain dump but also, when we are tested are we being tested for the virus or the disease? Edited October 19, 2020 by Taffin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N Lincs Jambo Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 12 minutes ago, Taffin said: What's the definition of immunity? Are people who are asymptomatic immune? It's not something if ever really though about before but I read a national geographic article and found the blurring of immune system response and 'immunity' quite confusing. I think I assumed immunity meant you didn't catch something but if you catch something and you body fights it without symptoms that seems like the same? Or does the virus not even try to effect immune people? Edit: apologies for my Monday morning brain dump but also, when we are tested are we being tested for the virus or the disease? Neither Taffin. We can’t be testing for it as even according to the CDC it (the virus) has still not been isolated. Therefore they don’t know what they are actually looking for. So they are using this PCR test to look, under amplification to a factor of 45 fold for viral RNA/DNA which even if detected may be strands of dead virus which has been dealt with by the body’s immune system but not finally excreted. It cannot differentiate between these dead viral strands or live virus which is capable of producing symptoms in someone and of being passed on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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