This season vs the other relegation seasons ( merged )

[Danny Wilde]

As one of these bores that can recount living through mid-1970's/early 1980's Hearts as generally being worse than anything we've seen recently, I can no longer say that. These tables (attached) from London Hearts show the clubs position at the equivalent pre-Xmas stage of the season in our 4 relegation years. Remember when you look at the points tallies that it was 2 pts for a win back then (so we'd have more points in todays league setup). Even the 2013/14 relegation year, if we were to add back in the 15 points deducted, would see us in a better position than we are now. Arguably the club now finds itself in the worst position its ever been in any SPL/old First Division season going back to 1874. I hope Stendel can pull it off but he's starting from probably a worse position than any manager I can recall.

[Famous 1874]

So essentially, we are ****ed 

[Danny Wilde]

We pulled things out of the fire in 1998/99 after going bottom when we lost at Dens Park in March. But we had a key player who was out most of that season, Colin Cameron - he came back for the run-in, we went on a winning streak, and finished 6th. No Colin Cameron type at Tynie these days.

[3fingersreid]

It’s a pity we can’t sue that ****er levein for dereliction of duty , what possessed him to sign the players that make up this shower of gutless , talentless , useless *******s that represent the club and the fans ? 

I kind of accepted we’d go down the year we were deducted points ,but at least they fought for the cause , the yo yo years were tough but the players despite being of a poor standard gave  their all , this shower don’t care , well paid prima donna wankers to a man , each and everyone of them . 

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

2 minutes ago, 3fingersreid said:

It’s a pity we can’t sue that ****er levein for dereliction of duty , what possessed him to sign the players that make up this shower of gutless , talentless , useless *******s that represent the club and the fans ? 

I kind of accepted we’d go down the year we were deducted points ,but at least they fought for the cause , the yo yo years were tough but the players despite being of a poor standard gave  their all , this shower don’t care , well paid prima donna wankers to a man , each and everyone of them . 

Well said. 

[hueyview]

I remember that 70s period as a school kid...  Hearts did go down, and back up but the 10 team league wasn't dominated by Celtic and Rangers as they were to be from the late 80s on.  A lot of teams went up and down.......  But now its a real danger involved as shown by Dun Utd failing to come up for several years..

If Hearts needed a comprehensive transfer window.... Its now....

[RasberryJam]

Frustrating to see that even then Aberdeen were in the top 3 positions in each of those seasons at this point in the season. At least Hibs were shite in each of those seasons.

[GorgieRules22]

2 hours ago, Danny Wilde said:

We pulled things out of the fire in 1998/99 after going bottom when we lost at Dens Park in March. But we had a key player who was out most of that season, Colin Cameron - he came back for the run-in, we went on a winning streak, and finished 6th. No Colin Cameron type at Tynie these days.

This gives me confidence

[pettigrewsstylist]

2 hours ago, Danny Wilde said:

As one of these bores that can recount living through mid-1970's/early 1980's Hearts as generally being worse than anything we've seen recently, I can no longer say that. These tables (attached) from London Hearts show the clubs position at the equivalent pre-Xmas stage of the season in our 4 relegation years. Remember when you look at the points tallies that it was 2 pts for a win back then (so we'd have more points in todays league setup). Even the 2013/14 relegation year, if we were to add back in the 15 points deducted, would see us in a better position than we are now. Arguably the club now finds itself in the worst position its ever been in any SPL/old First Division season going back to 1874. I hope Stendel can pull it off but he's starting from probably a worse position than any manager I can recall.

Brilliant- we are not bottom in any of them! (2015 balancing applied)

[martoon]

The worst relegation of the yoyo years was 1980/81. Horrendous time to be a Hearts supporter. 

 

Alarming that we were better off points wise, if the three for a win is factored in, than we are now. 

 

There was little hope, none really, of escaping our fate 39 years ago but at least, in Stendel, we have something to cling on to. 

 

Levein gtf. 

[i8hibsh]

Aye, but did we sell non alcoholic Heineken in 78?

[Bking9]

We had 12 points after 19 games (2013) with kids, needless to mention the 15 point deduction. Accumulating 27 points at this stage back then is actually some achievement looking back.

On average to stay in the league I'd say you need about 35 points to miss out on the playoffs and guarantee survival. 

January is massive and if we as a club don't come out the other end of the break with a different mentality we are playing greenock and Ayr next season.

3 new players required at least for me, Shankland being no.1 target push McLean out (somehow), CM, someone who can cross the ball, and CD on loan ? 

Edited December 22, 2019 by Bking9
Spelling error

[alicante jambo]

2 hours ago, Bking9 said:

We had 12 points after 19 games (2013) with kids, needless to mention the 15 point deduction. Accumulating 27 points at this stage back then is actually some achievement looking back.

On average to stay in the league I'd say you need about 35 points to miss out on the playoffs and guarantee survival. 

January is massive and if we as a club don't come out the other end of the break with a different mentality we are playing greenock and Ayr next season.

3 new players required at least for me, Shankland being no.1 target push McLean out (somehow), CM, someone who can cross the ball, and CD on loan ? 

We need more than 3 mate. We wanted a new man in we have now got it and the january window will decide if we stay up or not. Dont think many folk are under the illusion everything will be ok but we can all hope.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

We were skint when we were relegated before.

 

There is no excuse this time, it is just poor management and decision making.

 

Budge is ultimately responsible.

[Dirty Deeds]

8 minutes ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

We were skint when we were relegated before.

 

There is no excuse this time, it is just poor management and decision making.

 

Budge is ultimately responsible.

Yes she is but don't forget that it was the fans who chased Robbie Neilson out the club.

 

Since that moment,  Levein / Budge haven't got a single footballing decision correct

[cameron79]

The good news is we have a chance to get it right in January. Comparisons are being made to Butchers team but they hit their downward spiral later into the season. When the wheels fall off in March the negative momentum drags you down.

 

We on the other hand have already hit bottom. January is essentially a mini preseason to make the changes, get back on track and starts winning games.

 

Stendel needs backed by the board all the way over the next few weeks. Anything less is a dereliction of duty. 

 

[3fingersreid]

As important as it is to get a few new players in , I think it’s even more important that Stendels assistants are appointed , he can’t do this on his own ( I know A Kirk is there ) . 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

8 hours ago, martoon said:

The worst relegation of the yoyo years was 1980/81. Horrendous time to be a Hearts supporter. 

 

Alarming that we were better off points wise, if the three for a win is factored in, than we are now. 

 

There was little hope, none really, of escaping our fate 39 years ago but at least, in Stendel, we have something to cling on to. 

 

Levein gtf. 

 

Yip, I've mentioned this season on a couple of threads and now like then we can't score goals, especially at home.

 

It's horrendous that we are in a worse position today than we were back in season '80-81.

[jumpship]

48 minutes ago, Dirty Deeds said:

Yes she is but don't forget that it was the fans who chased Robbie Neilson out the club.

 

Since that moment,  Levein / Budge haven't got a single footballing decision correct

 

IMO, Robbie Neilson had the same mindset as Levein. Confirmed when after a blood and guts win against hibs he came out in the press and said (something like) yeah, great win but I don't want hearts playing like that. Players need to keep control of their emotions. 

 

Neilson probably seen the way things were going and jumped ship... 

 

 

[Henrysmithstaxi]

1 hour ago, cameron79 said:

The good news is we have a chance to get it right in January. Comparisons are being made to Butchers team but they hit their downward spiral later into the season. When the wheels fall off in March the negative momentum drags you down.

 

We on the other hand have already hit bottom. January is essentially a mini preseason to make the changes, get back on track and starts winning games.

 

Stendel needs backed by the board all the way over the next few weeks. Anything less is a dereliction of duty. 

 

I just can’t see a fit between almost all the players we have and Stendel’s

philosophy. Therefore, unless there are wholesale changes, which seems unlikely and carries inherent risks in itself, how do our squad and his style ever work?

 

I can’t see why he took the job.

 

I’m also worried that he’s on a massive individual losing streak and whilst he took Barnsley up from League One, they’re a relatively big fish at that level, their only real competition was the basket case that is Sunderland and he was found out in the Championship, which is surely more our level. 

 

A combination of factors gives me great cause for concern. I just hope I’m wrong.

[cameron79]

2 minutes ago, Henrysmithstaxi said:

I just can’t see a fit between almost all the players we have and Stendel’s

philosophy. Therefore, unless there are wholesale changes, which seems unlikely and carries inherent risks in itself, how do our squad and his style ever work?

 

I can’t see why he took the job.

 

I’m also worried that he’s on a massive individual losing streak and whilst he took Barnsley up from League One, they’re a relatively big fish at that level, their only real competition was the basket case that is Sunderland and he was found out in the Championship, which is surely more our level. 

 

A combination of factors gives me great cause for concern. I just hope I’m wrong.

We all have differing opinions but I still live in hope. Major surgery is required in the squad and that's no easy task in January but I still have faith in Stendel.The board I'm not so sure

[Class of 75]

12 hours ago, 3fingersreid said:

It’s a pity we can’t sue that ****er levein for dereliction of duty , what possessed him to sign the players that make up this shower of gutless , talentless , useless *******s that represent the club and the fans ? 

I kind of accepted we’d go down the year we were deducted points ,but at least they fought for the cause , the yo yo years were tough but the players despite being of a poor standard gave  their all , this shower don’t care , well paid prima donna wankers to a man , each and everyone of them . 

You wonder if Levein did it on purpose or was just useless. Either way he has deeply wounded us. 

[kingantti1874]

Remember when levein told us we we’re targeting players from a higher level who had something wrong, injury or something and that’s why we could attract them to hearts.!!

 

worked out well didn’t it levein **** 

[brawlad74]

Remember the Yo yo years well but reckon we do have better players than then tho appreciate that's on paper.  Sadly can't see us picking up much in next 2 so we're gonna be adrift. We are now facing the fight of our lives and the players better respond. Stendel needs assistants,  Kirk ok, and 4/5 players which is gonna cost and we are unlikely to see more moving out so still gonna play same under performing players. Hell of a challenge but we're not dead yet.  Budge must finance change or we will be dead and she and FOH were all in vain and we are laughing stock coz can't see us coming back positive from another relegation. 

[Danny Wilde]

As little as 2 or 3 players coming into the club in January could be enough. As long as they're the right kind of player. Someone that can put the ball in the net 9 or 10 times between now and the end of the season, and particularly in the games that will matter against other bottom 6 teams. And someone who will lead on the park and in the dressing room, who won't accept 2nd best from those around them, and puts a snarl back into the team.  But no more crocks. We've signed enough players that spend most of their time on the treatment table.

[TheTrumpet]

Stendel needs backed in the transfer market. He needs hs assistants. He needs time.

 

Chances of him getting the first two in January are maybe 50/50, and without the first two he won't get the third, time.

 

Budge and Levein have created this unholy sh#tfest and Budge needs to do what is required financially to sort it. Simple as that. 

 

 

Edited December 22, 2019 by TheTrumpet

[3fingersreid]

34 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

You wonder if Levein did it on purpose or was just useless. Either way he has deeply wounded us. 

I’m hoping it was useless , but deeply wounded sums it up fine . 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

48 minutes ago, brawlad74 said:

Remember the Yo yo years well but reckon we do have better players than then tho appreciate that's on paper.  Sadly can't see us picking up much in next 2 so we're gonna be adrift. We are now facing the fight of our lives and the players better respond. Stendel needs assistants,  Kirk ok, and 4/5 players which is gonna cost and we are unlikely to see more moving out so still gonna play same under performing players. Hell of a challenge but we're not dead yet.  Budge must finance change or we will be dead and she and FOH were all in vain and we are laughing stock coz can't see us coming back positive from another relegation. 

 

One way round that is to promote some of the youngsters, can't do a worse job than the players currently playing.

[brawlad74]

Jambos-Jimbo Agree with that. If Stendel is sussing squad out then young and loan players need included. Henderson had bit of zip about him v Celtic but appreciate there may be contractual issues with others.

[Henrysmithstaxi]

1 hour ago, cameron79 said:

We all have differing opinions but I still live in hope. Major surgery is required in the squad and that's no easy task in January but I still have faith in Stendel.The board I'm not so sure

We simply cannot stick with what we’ve got. He needs a lot of new players, but a lot of new players will need time to adapt to the league and so on. It’s a bad, bad situation.

[Henrysmithstaxi]

Just now, Henrysmithstaxi said:

We simply cannot stick with what we’ve got. He needs a lot of new players, but a lot of new players will need time to adapt to the league and so on. It’s a bad, bad situation.

And is there money for so many new faces?

[Francis Albert]

As others during the yo yo years we were skint and our income in real terms a fraction of what it is today, not compensated by lower wages then. Relative to most of our competitors in the relegation fight this year we have far bigger income advantage than we did back then. Last time of course we started on -15 points.

The other things to recall from the yo yo years - each time we were relegated the harder it was the following season to get up and the first three times we went down more easily in the following season. nd Dundede United have shown that recovery is not necessarily quick. 

Memory of 40 years ago may not be reliable but as I recall there was almost always a player or two or even three in even dire sides that I liked and enjoyed watching. Can't say that today.

I still  don't think at the end of the day we will go down but if we do (and it is certainly possible)  it will be the worst and least excusable by far of our  relegations so far.

 

 

[Robbo-Jambo]

16 hours ago, 3fingersreid said:

It’s a pity we can’t sue that ****er levein for dereliction of duty , what possessed him to sign the players that make up this shower of gutless , talentless , useless *******s that represent the club and the fans ? 

I kind of accepted we’d go down the year we were deducted points ,but at least they fought for the cause , the yo yo years were tough but the players despite being of a poor standard gave  their all , this shower don’t care , well paid prima donna wankers to a man , each and everyone of them . 

Spot on. 

[Pants Shaton]

Levein can be blamed for plenty but this group of players should be nowhere near bottom of the league. 
 

Time for them to stand up and be counted.  This lot should be able to beat dross like Hamilton, St Johnstone etc. at Tynecastle even if I was the manager. 

[Weakened Offender]

13 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

Aye, but did we sell non alcoholic Heineken in 78?

 

You need sex.