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Zlatanable

Post GE2019 - early days

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Zlatanable

Less seats seats for the Conservative Party than under Margaret Thatcher in 1987. 

 

Less seats for the Labour Party than under Michael Foot in 1982.

 

Less seats for The SNP than under Nicola Sturgeon than in 2015.

 

 It seems to have been the Brexit election, which will surely happen soon.

Early days yet, but since there is enough of a majority for The Conservative Party, I imagine there won't be another General Election until December 2024. 

 

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Zlatanable

It's still sinking in. 

I was surprised to see the Corbyn Labour fail by as much as they did. 

I was not surprised by the SNP gaining seats, and not surprised the SNP/Pro Indy remain at about 45% of the share of the vote in Scotland. 

 

I am glad that Brexit uncertainty won't be the same thing it has been. 

I hate open loops. 

 

I also have to acknowledge that The Conservative Party in Scotland is probably a growth story. 

I believe the SNP have converted people that would have voted Labour, to vote SNP, because many people now view Independence as the solution to issues the Labour Party was invented to solve.

But that is my opinion. 

 

Miss Barbara Dickson

 

 

 

 

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ri Alban
2 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

It's still sinking in. 

I was surprised to see the Corbyn Labour fail by as much as they did. 

I was not surprised by the SNP gaining seats, and not surprised the SNP/Pro Indy remain at about 45% of the share of the vote in Scotland. 

 

I am glad that Brexit uncertainty won't be the same thing it has been. 

I hate open loops. 

 

I also have to acknowledge that The Conservative Party in Scotland is probably a growth story. 

I believe the SNP have converted people that would have voted Labour, to vote SNP, because many people now view Independence as the solution to issues the Labour Party was invented to solve.

But that is my opinion. 

 

Miss Barbara Dickson

 

 

 

 

You've just witnessed the last UK general election.

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AlimOzturk
4 hours ago, ri Alban said:

You've just witnessed the last UK general election.

 

Scotland wont vote for independence even if we are given another go. To many of the 50 and upwards still remember the union as as a good thing and simply wont accept that Scotland could go it alone. Maybe after Boris ****s the country up sufficiently enough but even then I have my doubts. 

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ri Alban
13 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

Scotland wont vote for independence even if we are given another go. To many of the 50 and upwards still remember the union as as a good thing and simply wont accept that Scotland could go it alone. Maybe after Boris ****s the country up sufficiently enough but even then I have my doubts. 

We'll see, very soon. Boris is the golden ticket and the SNP have played a blinder. Now watch them gradually fed the Unionists the rope. Poetry in motion!

 

Boris, Trump and Farage, thank you very much for delivering Scotland her rightful independence. :thumb:

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Maroon Sailor
1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

We'll see, very soon. Boris is the golden ticket and the SNP have played a blinder. Now watch them gradually fed the Unionists the rope. Poetry in motion!

 

Boris, Trump and Farage, thank you very much for delivering Scotland her rightful independence. :thumb:

 

Thatcher couldn't deliver it and she was absolutely despised in Scotland.

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Dirty Deeds

Hindsight is a great thing but the outcome of this election should have been obvious. 

 

Imagine if Scotland voted for Independence but three and a half years down the line we were no closer to getting it?  We'd all be going ape shit and ready to vote for anyone saying "Get Independence Done".

 

That how the 2016 Brexit voters were feeling. 

 

 

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Jambo-Jimbo

Aside from the mis-trust the public have of Corbyn the other main reason why the Tories did so well was Brexit.

 

Imo, In many ways all of those high profile MP's who tried to thwart Brexit, the likes of Grieve, Soubry, Umunna, Wollaston, Benn, Cooper, Swinson to name a few all contributed towards the Tory landslide by their refusal to implement the EU referendum result, many of them completely ignored the majority of their constituents and totally mis-judged the public mood and put their own personal feelings towards brexit rather than that of their constituents and most of them have now paid the price and lost their seats, even the likes of Benn & Cooper whilst being re-elected were returned on a much reduced majority.

 

I also believe that the GE result might well have been very much different if Labour had backed May's EU withdrawl deal at the time and delivered brexit, then domestic issues would then have been one of the main focuses of the GE, and Labour leave voters would have still backed Labour, but instead Labour voted agianst the EU withdrawl deal, whilst hoping that by that stance they'd get a GE by doing so.

 

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Dirty Deeds
41 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Aside from the mis-trust the public have of Corbyn the other main reason why the Tories did so well was Brexit.

 

Imo, In many ways all of those high profile MP's who tried to thwart Brexit, the likes of Grieve, Soubry, Umunna, Wollaston, Benn, Cooper, Swinson to name a few all contributed towards the Tory landslide by their refusal to implement the EU referendum result, many of them completely ignored the majority of their constituents and totally mis-judged the public mood and put their own personal feelings towards brexit rather than that of their constituents and most of them have now paid the price and lost their seats, even the likes of Benn & Cooper whilst being re-elected were returned on a much reduced majority.

 

I also believe that the GE result might well have been very much different if Labour had backed May's EU withdrawl deal at the time and delivered brexit, then domestic issues would then have been one of the main focuses of the GE, and Labour leave voters would have still backed Labour, but instead Labour voted agianst the EU withdrawl deal, whilst hoping that by that stance they'd get a GE by doing so.

 

Agreed although I didn't think so at the time.

 

British politics is too tribal, always trying to inflict a defeat on your rival and never seeing the outcome as something other than a binary choice.  Johnson may have lost almost every vote in the previous parliament but he won the war.

 

Looking forward and hopefully learning from Brexit, I think that the SNP should now concentrate on a Devo-Max option and kick IndyRef2 into the long grass.  Push for it now and lose and it's gone for a lifetime.  My lifetime anyway. 

 

 

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RobboM
2 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Aside from the mis-trust the public have of Corbyn the other main reason why the Tories did so well was Brexit.

 

Imo, In many ways all of those high profile MP's who tried to thwart Brexit, the likes of Grieve, Soubry, Umunna, Wollaston, Benn, Cooper, Swinson to name a few all contributed towards the Tory landslide by their refusal to implement the EU referendum result, many of them completely ignored the majority of their constituents and totally mis-judged the public mood and put their own personal feelings towards brexit rather than that of their constituents and most of them have now paid the price and lost their seats, even the likes of Benn & Cooper whilst being re-elected were returned on a much reduced majority.

 


That failure though was down to the Tories and in particular Theresa May's approach to Brexit negotiations. An open and conciliatory approach in parliament from the outset may well have brought about a consensus view on the form of Brexit. It would have inevitably have been a soft brexit and split the Conservative party. It is this insistence on party before country that the Tories are now being rewarded for. It's ****ing mental!

Edited by RobboM

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The Mighty Thor

The election result was a surprise to no one in the real world. 

Momentum and by extension Corbyn have destroyed the Labour party for the next 10 years at least. 

The upside to it all is that now the Tories get to own the Brexit shit show with no ambiguity or excuses. Its theirs, they wanted it, now they have to deliver it and more importantly deal with the outcomes of it.

The northerners in Durham, Blyth etc will have the next 5 years to reflect on their decision to back Boris as they reap the brexit 'dividend' heading their way. 

Time for Boris to bring Mogg, Francois, Patel out the cellar he had them locked up in for the last 6 weeks and for them all to 'get on with the day job' of unleashing Britain's potential 👍

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Cade

Boris and his cabinet will be working out how many manifesto pledges to drop, how quickly they can drop them and who to blame for them being dropped.

 

 

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Jambo-Jimbo
1 hour ago, RobboM said:


That failure though was down to the Tories and in particular Theresa May's approach to Brexit negotiations. An open and conciliatory approach in parliament from the outset may well have brought about a consensus view on the form of Brexit. It would have inevitably have been a soft brexit and split the Conservative party. It is this insistence on party before country that the Tories are now being rewarded for. It's ****ing mental!

 

I said it at the time and I've said it numerous times since, that there should have been a cross-party committee on brexit, but that didn't happen.

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ri Alban
6 hours ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Thatcher couldn't deliver it and she was absolutely despised in Scotland.

Labour were the saviour of the union back then and 2014. They're finished and Scotland know it.

 

 

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jambogaza
6 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

Scotland wont vote for independence even if we are given another go. To many of the 50 and upwards still remember the union as as a good thing and simply wont accept that Scotland could go it alone. Maybe after Boris ****s the country up sufficiently enough but even then I have my doubts. 

 

Think you are a bit optimistic here regarding the union. Polls show that there is movement towards independence and remember - 16 and 17 yos will likely vote in it. People that were 11 during the last referendum. 

 

The problem at the moment is that the UK Government appear unwilling to allow the issue to be considered and settled. That is totally unsustainable and will only increase support for imdependence. Could it be they don't want one as they know this one will be much, much closer? 

 

The dynamic has changed

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Maroon Sailor
27 minutes ago, jambogaza said:

 

Think you are a bit optimistic here regarding the union. Polls show that there is movement towards independence and remember - 16 and 17 yos will likely vote in it. People that were 11 during the last referendum. 

 

The problem at the moment is that the UK Government appear unwilling to allow the issue to be considered and settled. That is totally unsustainable and will only increase support for imdependence. Could it be they don't want one as they know this one will be much, much closer? 

 

The dynamic has changed

 

Plus she'll wait until Scotland has taken enough refugees and give them a vote

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ri Alban
27 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Plus she'll wait until Scotland has taken enough refugees and give them a vote

How can that happen, when Holyrood doesn't control immigration. 

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Maroon Sailor
23 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

How can that happen, when Holyrood doesn't control immigration. 

 

She'll take them  Open door policy

 

Anything to get her over the line

 

She'll stop at nothing to get Scotland out of the UK

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Pans Jambo
8 hours ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Thatcher couldn't deliver it and she was absolutely despised in Scotland.

Wasnt an Indy ref when she was PM.

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Maroon Sailor
1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

Wasnt an Indy ref when she was PM.

 

What was the reason for that ?

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Pans Jambo
19 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

What was the reason for that ?

Dinny ken. Cant even remember it being discussed back then. Oh how times have changed eh?

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Maroon Sailor
Just now, Pans Jambo said:

Dinny ken. Cant even remember it being discussed back then. Oh how times have changed eh?

 

Scotland hated the Tories under Thatcher 1979-1990

 

Scotland hate the Tories under Boris 2019

 

Oh how times have changed

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Jambo-Jimbo
20 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Dinny ken. Cant even remember it being discussed back then. Oh how times have changed eh?

 

Independence wasn't really discussed back then, there was in 1979 a referendum on whether Scotland should get a devolved assembly, effectively the same as the present Scottish Parliament but IIRC not nearly with as many powers.  The result was a narrow yes vote, but I'm sure there had to be a certain percentage that yes had to win by or something like that, which the yes vote failed to achieve, hence we didn't get it, a second one was held in 1997 which led to the creation of the Scottish Parliament.

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Cade

#10 attacking the BC for being anti-tory.

Andrew Neil calling out chicken-shite Boris and the news reporting on the wee laddie sleeping on the hospital floor have been complained about as evidence of bias.

Government (again) threatening to de-criminalise non payment of license fee and is boycotting the Today show.

:cornette:

 

Black is white, right is wrong, truth is lies and BBC news is anti-Tory

Edited by Cade

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Pans Jambo
1 hour ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Scotland hated the Tories under Thatcher 1979-1990

 

Scotland hate the Tories under Boris 2019

 

Oh how times have changed

Yip, we all hate the tories. 

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XB52
2 hours ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

She'll take them  Open door policy

 

Anything to get her over the line

 

She'll stop at nothing to get Scotland out of the UK

As you well know she has no power to take refugees unless your Tory overlords allow it

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Maroon Sailor
1 minute ago, XB52 said:

As you well know she has no power to take refugees unless your Tory overlords allow it

 

All the more reason to stop her Indy2 obsession.

 

God knows what Scotland we'd wake up to

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Cade

Scotland needs to grow it's population.

It's practically empty and is facing the ageing population timebomb.

We need more young people from anywhere to turn up and start paying taxes to keep the oldies pensions intact.

Hence the open doors policy (as much as we're allowed) and things like free childcare provision and baby boxes etc.

 

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Jambo-Jimbo
1 hour ago, Cade said:

#10 attacking the BC for being anti-tory.

Andrew Neil calling out chicken-shite Boris and the news reporting on the wee laddie sleeping on the hospital floor have been complained about as evidence of bias.

Government (again) threatening to de-criminalise non payment of license fee and is boycotting the Today show.

:cornette:

 

Black is white, right is wrong, truth is lies and BBC news is anti-Tory

 

Quite right as well, it's 2019 ffs, the BBC should be like everyone else and survive on it's own without being subsidised by the public in the form of a TV licence.

 

6 minutes ago, Cade said:

Scotland needs to grow it's population.

It's practically empty and is facing the ageing population timebomb.

We need more young people from anywhere to turn up and start paying taxes to keep the oldies pensions intact.

Hence the open doors policy (as much as we're allowed) and things like free childcare provision and baby boxes etc.

 

 

You'd be the first to moan about pensioners living in poverty, besides don't knock the pensioners, you might well be one yourself one day.

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Mikey1874

Early signs the Conservatives will be going after their enemies.

 

Talk of ditching the tv licence to destroy the BBC. They have made a complaint of bias against one the radio programmes by boycotting it.

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/media/2019/dec/15/boris-johnson-threatens-bbc-with-two-pronged-attack?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=edit_2221&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true

 

Going after the courts too.

 

Could be good entertainment. 

Edited by Mikey1874

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arfurdaley
5 hours ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Scotland hated the Tories under Thatcher 1979-1990

 

Scotland hate the Tories under Boris 2019

 

Oh how times have changed

Aye, but the SNP voted with Thatcher in 1979.

 

Unforgivable

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Mikey1874

We'll hear a lot less about anti-semitism now.

 

Given that the desired result has been achieved. 

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ri Alban
12 hours ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

What was the reason for that ?

SNP were demonised by Labour and Scotland bought it. And if the last 3 elections were back then, we'd be independent, as Maggie used to say.

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ri Alban
6 hours ago, arfurdaley said:

Aye, but the SNP voted with Thatcher in 1979.

 

Unforgivable

No they didn't. They pulled their support for Labour after they reneged on devolution. You know, one of those referenda, the British have never not, not accepted the result of.(Theresa May). And that's right the EUref didn't meet the same threshold, either.

I see you're still swallowing the Tartan Tory myth.

Edited by ri Alban

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ri Alban
9 hours ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

All the more reason to stop her Indy2 obsession.

 

God knows what Scotland we'd wake up to

I know, millions fleeing Tory England. Get the border up asap. Or is only people with Suntans that you don't want.

Edited by ri Alban

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ri Alban
10 hours ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

All the more reason to stop her Indy2 obsession.

 

God knows what Scotland we'd wake up to

An independent Nation, who will welcome the world, with only one border. Sounds good to me.

 

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ri Alban
11 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Independence wasn't really discussed back then, there was in 1979 a referendum on whether Scotland should get a devolved assembly, effectively the same as the present Scottish Parliament but IIRC not nearly with as many powers.  The result was a narrow yes vote, but I'm sure there had to be a certain percentage that yes had to win by or something like that, which the yes vote failed to achieve, hence we didn't get it, a second one was held in 1997 which led to the creation of the Scottish Parliament.

Brexit didn't meet these rules either, but alas, it's still the will of the we are the people. Funny that. And before you say it, why didn't it have it. Unless you think Scotland should be treated differently.

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Maroon Sailor
2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

I know, millions fleeing Tory England. Get the border up asap. Or is only people with Suntans that you don't want.

 

Mass immigration for Scotland seems like a great idea.

 

Sure fire way of getting her Indy obsession through.

 

Yeah everybody is welcome to come and live in Scorland. We'll build you houses, let you into our schools, give you money for nothing and you can even teach us your culture and religious beliefs.

 

Smashing

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ri Alban
1 minute ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Mass immigration for Scotland seems like a great idea.

 

Sure fire way of getting her Indy obsession through.

 

Yeah everybody is welcome to come and live in Scorland. We'll build you houses, let you into our schools, give you money for nothing and you can even teach us your culture and religious beliefs.

 

Smashing

Highland clearances are so 'Yesterday'.

 

You sound like someone right out of the 1690s, when the King of the day wanted religious freedom for everyone, but thought 1% of the Nation were taking over.  Get a grip, the Muslims aren't taking out the Presbyterian Kirk, anytime soon. But we will help folk live in peace, given the chance. And hopefully ban summer sponsored walks from two sides of the Shame on this country.

 

Merry Xmas! Aw naw, is it no merry Ramadan?

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Maroon Sailor
14 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Highland clearances are so 'Yesterday'.

 

You sound like someone right out of the 1690s, when the King of the day wanted religious freedom for everyone, but thought 1% of the Nation were taking over.  Get a grip, the Muslims aren't taking out the Presbyterian Kirk, anytime soon. But we will help folk live in peace, given the chance. And hopefully ban summer sponsored walks from two sides of the Shame on this country.

 

Merry Xmas! Aw naw, is it no merry Ramadan?

 

Ha ha ha

 

Live in peace !

 

Have a word with yourself !

 

Away back to your tree and smelly camp sites

 

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ri Alban
10 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Ha ha ha

 

Live in peace !

 

Have a word with yourself !

 

Away back to your tree and smelly camp sites

 

Naw, I'll go to work to help pay your benefits.

 

 

Edited by ri Alban

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Jambo-Jimbo
4 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Brexit didn't meet these rules either, but alas, it's still the will of the we are the people. Funny that. And before you say it, why didn't it have it. Unless you think Scotland should be treated differently.

 

What rules did Brexit not meet?

I seem to recall that the only criteria set for the EU referendum was whoever got more than 50% of the votes would win.

 

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SectionDJambo

Due to the incompetence of the Labour and Liberal Democratic parties, in having leaders and policies that people couldn't support, we have Boris Johnson in total control of the UK politics, whether we like it or not.

Perhaps, optimistically, there is a chance that he may take the opportunity to try to keep the votes that he has "been given a loan of", in the north of England, by bucking the ideas of his extreme right wing, and actually pursuing this catchphrase of "one nation Conservatives".

Having such a big majority, means he doesn't need the ERG anymore to support him through Parliament. So he can negotiate all he likes with the EU and pursue policies which benefit the north of the UK, including Scotland, where it won't have escaped his notice that the Tories won a decent share of the vote, by past standards.

He wants to be PM for years to come. That won't happen unless he delivers to the people who got him in. Brexit will only go so far to keep him in next time. 

In the meantime, will Labour just appoint "Corbyn without a beard" or will they have the sense to see that going back to the 70s,  isn't how to win an election in this century? History might suggest they will be too daft to realise that Brexit was not the only, or main, reason they were left behind this time, by an incumbent government which was there for the taking by a better leader with ideas which aren't just there to please those who support him/her as Labour leader. Or to peddle the myth that the press tainted Corbyn with anti semitism and being sympathetic to terrorist organisations, when he did little or nothing, recently or in the past, to help defend himself against those views.

All just my opinion, not being a political expert, just a citizen of this country for over 60 years.

 

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Mikey1874

Re leader, it does seem you need someone who can appeal to the masses. 

 

Tricky for political parties who may have other criteria. 

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Jambos1983
3 hours ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Mass immigration for Scotland seems like a great idea.

 

Sure fire way of getting her Indy obsession through.

 

Yeah everybody is welcome to come and live in Scorland. We'll build you houses, let you into our schools, give you money for nothing and you can even teach us your culture and religious beliefs.

 

Smashing

Jesus christ. Are you a Farage supporter? 

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Ray Gin

I see the racists and xenophobes are quick to show their true colours now their führer has won the general election.

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Maroon Sailor
49 minutes ago, Jambos1983 said:

Jesus christ. Are you a Farage supporter? 

 

Far from it.

 

Cultural differences and religious beliefs = one thing.

 

Trouble

 

Got enough problems in Scotland with people singing songs about other countries as it is and showing their true colours

 

Why add to an already toxic mixture ?

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Jambos1983
33 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Far from it.

 

Cultural differences and religious beliefs = one thing.

 

Trouble

 

Got enough problems in Scotland with people singing songs about other countries as it is and showing their true colours

 

Why add to an already toxic mixture ?

I'll take that as a yes then. 

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Ron Burgundy
1 hour ago, Ray Gin said:

I see the racists and xenophobes are quick to show their true colours now their führer has won the general election.

I'd bet that Scotland is probably one of if not the most religiously backward and bigoted countries in the EU. And that's nothing to do with the likes of Farage. We kid on how tolerant we are when nothing could be further from the truth.

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Ray Gin
1 minute ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I'd bet that Scotland is probably one of if not the most religiously backward and bigoted countries in the EU. And that's nothing to do with the likes of Farage. We kid on how tolerant we are when nothing could be further from the truth.

 

I'd bet otherwise given that 58% of Scots identify as non-religious.

 

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