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Netflix of Football - Premier League. Would this work in Scotland?


Byyy The Light

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Byyy The Light

https://talksport.com/football/637125/simon-jordan-premier-league-netflix/

 

Simon Jordan reckons the Premier League should become it's own broadcaster, taking control away from BT and Sky.  I think there is obvious merit in this for the premier league due to massive global scale of the product but could it work in Scotland?  I'm unsure of the exact value of the current tv deal but could we get 750,000 people willing to pay £10 a month?  That would be circa £90 million a year in fees with potential to add advertising revenues on top.

 

Thoughts?

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Hampden Demolition

No, people would continue to stream illegally. That’s an extra £10 on top of your BT (for CL and EL games), Sky and Potentially even Premier Sports.

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6 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

https://talksport.com/football/637125/simon-jordan-premier-league-netflix/

 

Simon Jordan reckons the Premier League should become it's own broadcaster, taking control away from BT and Sky.  I think there is obvious merit in this for the premier league due to massive global scale of the product but could it work in Scotland?  I'm unsure of the exact value of the current tv deal but could we get 750,000 people willing to pay £10 a month?  That would be circa £90 million a year in fees with potential to add advertising revenues on top.

 

Thoughts?

 

SPL TV? That's soooooo 2002.

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Doomed to fail if it simply becomes OF TV.  IMO.

 

But theoretically, I don't see why not.

 

Would actually like to see it encompass all Scottish leagues, the lack of coverage of all the leagues is shocking.

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Byyy The Light
5 minutes ago, Hampden Demolition said:

No, people would continue to stream illegally. That’s an extra £10 on top of your BT (for CL and EL games), Sky and Potentially even Premier Sports.

 

Why would they be streaming illegally if they already paid for BT, Sky and Premier Sports?

 

 

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Hampden Demolition

I’m just speaking hypothetically. If you paid all of your subscriptions, would you want to pay an additional £10, particularly for Scottish Football?

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Byyy The Light
2 minutes ago, Hampden Demolition said:

I’m just speaking hypothetically. If you paid all of your subscriptions, would you want to pay an additional £10, particularly for Scottish Football?

 

Well the whole point is nobody is happy paying £80 a month for Sky and BT.

 

Personally I would be happy to pay £10 for Scottish football yes as I don’t pay for Sky.

 

I get that most people pay to watch English football rather than the Scottish stuff though. 

 

 

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Hampden Demolition
2 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

 

Well the whole point is nobody is happy paying £80 a month for Sky and BT.

 

Personally I would be happy to pay £10 for Scottish football yes as I don’t pay for Sky.

 

I get that most people pay to watch English football rather than the Scottish stuff though. 

 

 


As a football fan though, I enjoy watching the EPL, Champions League and obviously Scottish football. So as the law abiding citizen that I am 👀, I would be forking out for 3 subs. I’m sure a lot of people will be the same.

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Byyy The Light
2 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

Amazon have every EPL game on to choose from this week.I think they will be the big players soon.

 

 

 

Agree. Think they are testing the water as to what figures they get.

 

Jordan is suggesting the Premier League cut them all out though and go it alone so they themselves become the only show in town.

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As a subscriber to MLB.TV, I believe this is the way forward. It’s affordable (£118 p.a.) and shows every single game as long as you’re outwith an exclusion zone. Not sure how large the exclusion zone is, but 30 miles would be ideal in Scotland. Do away with the stupid 3pm on Saturday agreement as well. There’s a full midweek card on this week and presumably whichever ugly sister that’s away from home will be on, against the rest of the matches?

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23 minutes ago, Boris said:

Doomed to fail if it simply becomes OF TV.  IMO.

 

But theoretically, I don't see why not.

 

Would actually like to see it encompass all Scottish leagues, the lack of coverage of all the leagues is shocking.

 

I agree with your desire, Boris. Good post. 

 

However, I think the OP's Netflix comparison is unhelpful. The economics of sport, and football in particular, means that there is a fundamental need for the collective licensing model, or 'patent pooling' to make a league feasible. How proceeds are allocated amongst its members is where the tension often comes from,. as if you award the winners too much you reduce the competitive balance. 

 

A different take, for me, is to look closely at NFL Game Pass, Not because I'm a fan of NFL but because of the proposition it gives the consumer and the option value they receive. Game Pass costs more than Spotify for a year yet it covers a NFL season that only takes up a third of the calendar. It's found a niche in that those who pay, also pay for broadcast sports, but get intimacy of their own team home page and superior on-demand playback offerings. 

 

People pay for Game Pass not because of what they do with it, but because it's always there, always on and always integrated into Google Chromecast (therefore big screen not small screen values). A platform built on top of a platform. It is this which I think clubs like Hearts, with their FoH network, could try to build without upsetting the competitive balance that collective licensing has to maintain,. 

 

Deodato. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Darth Sidious
13 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

Amazon have every EPL game on to choose from this week.I think they will be the big players soon.

 

 

 

Wish they would take a chance on the Scottish game.  Cant be a worse deal than we get just now.  How long did Doncaster ties us down to the 'must be 4 Old Firm Games a Season' contract'.

 

Is there not other European leagues, with a better financial deal than Scotland which has all matches streaming on a service like Amazon are going to do?

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There was an interesting case in Greece which I was told about by a mate of mine.

 

He's a PAOK Salonika fan, and after they won the league last season, they finally had enough of being essentially 2nd best to Athens clubs in the eyes of the MSM. When it came to the TV deal being negotiated in summer just passed, they dug their heels in and refused to accept it. Instead they basically threatened to just do their own thing for their home matches, and in turn Nova Sports (their equivalent to Sky Sports) govern all the home matches for every other team who agrees.

 

So PAOK fans can watch their teams home matches for whatever the subscription is that the club charge, which in turn is all money in their pockets. Where it gets interesting though, is someone like Nova Sports can't really afford not to screen a match like PAOK vs Olympiakos which could be a potential title deciding match. Not just once, but twice, as the Greek league this season has introduced a split after 26 matches, where teams play a further twice against each other. This now means though that for Nova to screen these matches, they have to negotiate a price that PAOK will accept to let them do so.

 

Could be a nice little earner for PAOK, or then again it might make no difference at all. But, at least this way they're sure of whatever they get goes in their pockets directly, and at least they're taking a stand. But, given BT and Sky's constant desires to show almost every Celtic or Rangers away game, I'd be very interested to see how this would work in Scotland. But, obviously it only really works if the other 10 clubs stand shoulder to shoulder on it, which we know won't happen.

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1 hour ago, Byyy The Light said:

https://talksport.com/football/637125/simon-jordan-premier-league-netflix/

 

Simon Jordan reckons the Premier League should become it's own broadcaster, taking control away from BT and Sky.  I think there is obvious merit in this for the premier league due to massive global scale of the product but could it work in Scotland?  I'm unsure of the exact value of the current tv deal but could we get 750,000 people willing to pay £10 a month?  That would be circa £90 million a year in fees with potential to add advertising revenues on top.

 

Thoughts?

 

750k subscribers? No chance whatsoever of that happening, majority of non OF games struggle to get much more than 50k tuning in, even if you quadrupled that it brings in subs of £24m, then you have to deduct production costs which even at 1 game a week would wipe out the majority of the subs, leaving little for the broadcaster and next to nothing to the clubs.

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The Hogfather

We shouldn’t be encouraging people to sit at home and watch the game. We should be encouraging people to do the absolute opposite. 

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Byyy The Light
45 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

We shouldn’t be encouraging people to sit at home and watch the game. We should be encouraging people to do the absolute opposite. 

 

Why not do both?  This is about replacing the tv deal.  Getting people along should also be a priority.

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Byyy The Light
55 minutes ago, Ribble said:

 

750k subscribers? No chance whatsoever of that happening, majority of non OF games struggle to get much more than 50k tuning in, even if you quadrupled that it brings in subs of £24m, then you have to deduct production costs which even at 1 game a week would wipe out the majority of the subs, leaving little for the broadcaster and next to nothing to the clubs.

 

Was just pulling figures out the air.  Sad state of the game if we can't get 750,000 and England are looking at 100 million.  Crazy how far behind we have fallen in such a short period of time.

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The Hogfather
4 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

 

Why not do both?  This is about replacing the tv deal.  Getting people along should also be a priority.


Clubs would never agree to an even split of all the revenue. There’s no chance Celtic would happily let Hamilton make money off the back of their popularity. So it’s a non-starter. 

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Byyy The Light
Just now, Nunya Business said:


Clubs would never agree to an even split of all the revenue. There’s no chance Celtic would happily let Hamilton make money off the back of their popularity. So it’s a non-starter. 

 

Now that we can both agree on.  That's where Scottish football have gone so so wrong when compared with down south.  Bullied by the Glasgow teams rather than doing what's best for the sport as a whole.

 

Anyway I hope the Premier league don't follow Simon Jordan's advice as that will take them on to a new stratosphere.

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part_time_jambo
2 hours ago, Nunya Business said:

We shouldn’t be encouraging people to sit at home and watch the game. We should be encouraging people to do the absolute opposite. 

Sit at home and not watch the game?

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1 hour ago, Byyy The Light said:

 

Was just pulling figures out the air.  Sad state of the game if we can't get 750,000 and England are looking at 100 million.  Crazy how far behind we have fallen in such a short period of time.

 

Not really, people in Scotland watch Scottish football. People all over the world watch English football.

 

Theres around 2m households in Scotland, 750k is a HUGE proportion of the population. If it got a quarter of that it’d be doing well.

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3 hours ago, Deodato said:

 

I agree with your desire, Boris. Good post. 

 

However, I think the OP's Netflix comparison is unhelpful. The economics of sport, and football in particular, means that there is a fundamental need for the collective licensing model, or 'patent pooling' to make a league feasible. How proceeds are allocated amongst its members is where the tension often comes from,. as if you award the winners too much you reduce the competitive balance. 

 

A different take, for me, is to look closely at NFL Game Pass, Not because I'm a fan of NFL but because of the proposition it gives the consumer and the option value they receive. Game Pass costs more than Spotify for a year yet it covers a NFL season that only takes up a third of the calendar. It's found a niche in that those who pay, also pay for broadcast sports, but get intimacy of their own team home page and superior on-demand playback offerings. 

 

People pay for Game Pass not because of what they do with it, but because it's always there, always on and always integrated into Google Chromecast (therefore big screen not small screen values). A platform built on top of a platform. It is this which I think clubs like Hearts, with their FoH network, could try to build without upsetting the competitive balance that collective licensing has to maintain,. 

 

Deodato. 

 

 

 

 

 

I pay for NFL Gamepass, because it’s the  only (legal and stable) way to watch my NFL team play each week, unless it’s blacked out due to it being on Sky (and their awful coverage).

 

If I still lived in the US, I wouldn’t have it - I wouldn’t need an alternative way of seeing the games other than “normal” TV, not that Gamepass would provide that anyway (it doesn’t show live games in North America).

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I'd pay for decent, fair coverage of Scottish football - it's the only football I'm really interested in. 

 

I don't pay for any other sports packages. 

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Gamepass is, as mentioned, every game except the two a week Sky have dibs on. An SPFL service would never want to put that many games on; they’d fear killing live gates, even if the price was similar to the £34 a month Sky Sports charge on Now TV

 

HBO recently decided to renew their contract with Sky rather than launch their streaming service in the U.K., and I’d imagine the EPL will think similarly. 
 

Off topic but I hate the Patriots more than I hate Hibs & am delighted they lost last night. 😋

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32 minutes ago, Peebo said:

 

Thanks for sharing this. Interesting read. 

 

The attitude from the OF to the league is unbelievably selfish and arrogant. They cannot play each other 38 times a season, nor is it likely they can join the English league. They very much seem to want the whole cake and let the rest starve, despite more often than not the rest being the ones to actually develop the talent they so often cherry pick. Contrast that with the Dutch league and Ajax sharing their Champions League pot with the league. A competitive league is good for the country. 2 clubs going head to head every year isn't competition, its repetitive nonsense. 

 

The issue about the poor viewing figures completely ignores Hearts v Aberdeen (or the other bigger non-OF teams playing each other). IMO it should have been about investing in these middle of the road clubs to encourage interest. I don't see these games as any different from English games like Aston Villa v Newcastle. They aren't your big fancy well-known teams, but with a decent crowd and a bit of atmosphere its still worth a watch.

 

Sky have done tremendously well underselling Scottish football. The OF effectively sell themselves which means they need to invest virtually nothing in Scottish football and absolutely coin it in. Any substantial increase in TV money would do more for the other 10 than the OF as it would make up a significantly higher percentage of their annual income than the OF (why are Celtic and the huns going to make it more costly to cherry pick lads like Christie, Jack, Armstrong or Brown?). If the OF could stop thinking of the rest of the league as a burden we might actually get somewhere. This insular backbiting and delusions of grandeur do nothing but keep our league poor. Making it more competitive domestically would be a massive boost to both OF clubs as their players would face genuine opposition. 

 

Personally think a subscription model should be thoroughly investigated and every penny be split evenly. We cannot allow this to be a cash grab by the OF. This is a league made up of equal partners, not an OF exhibition cup. Increased access to technology could definitely ease access and an international market could also help drive the sort of numbers we need to see viability. There are millions of people in Canada, America, Australia & New Zealand with Scottish ancestry that would have an interest in this if done right. I think some sort of freemium model initially to maximise exposure could be a way forward - Rely purely on Ad money for the first couple of seasons to build numbers and introduce a zero ads model for a set fee.  

 

Even if it categorically fails we'll have hard and fast evidence what the Scottish football market is like and could improve our bargaining position with Sky and BT. 

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Byyy The Light
10 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Thanks for sharing this. Interesting read. 

 

The attitude from the OF to the league is unbelievably selfish and arrogant. They cannot play each other 38 times a season, nor is it likely they can join the English league. They very much seem to want the whole cake and let the rest starve, despite more often than not the rest being the ones to actually develop the talent they so often cherry pick. Contrast that with the Dutch league and Ajax sharing their Champions League pot with the league. A competitive league is good for the country. 2 clubs going head to head every year isn't competition, its repetitive nonsense. 

 

The issue about the poor viewing figures completely ignores Hearts v Aberdeen (or the other bigger non-OF teams playing each other). IMO it should have been about investing in these middle of the road clubs to encourage interest. I don't see these games as any different from English games like Aston Villa v Newcastle. They aren't your big fancy well-known teams, but with a decent crowd and a bit of atmosphere its still worth a watch.

 

Sky have done tremendously well underselling Scottish football. The OF effectively sell themselves which means they need to invest virtually nothing in Scottish football and absolutely coin it in. Any substantial increase in TV money would do more for the other 10 than the OF as it would make up a significantly higher percentage of their annual income than the OF (why are Celtic and the huns going to make it more costly to cherry pick lads like Christie, Jack, Armstrong or Brown?). If the OF could stop thinking of the rest of the league as a burden we might actually get somewhere. This insular backbiting and delusions of grandeur do nothing but keep our league poor. Making it more competitive domestically would be a massive boost to both OF clubs as their players would face genuine opposition. 

 

Personally think a subscription model should be thoroughly investigated and every penny be split evenly. We cannot allow this to be a cash grab by the OF. This is a league made up of equal partners, not an OF exhibition cup. Increased access to technology could definitely ease access and an international market could also help drive the sort of numbers we need to see viability. There are millions of people in Canada, America, Australia & New Zealand with Scottish ancestry that would have an interest in this if done right. I think some sort of freemium model initially to maximise exposure could be a way forward - Rely purely on Ad money for the first couple of seasons to build numbers and introduce a zero ads model for a set fee.  

 

Even if it categorically fails we'll have hard and fast evidence what the Scottish football market is like and could improve our bargaining position with Sky and BT. 

 

Great post 👍🏼

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AngleParkMenace
6 hours ago, Byyy The Light said:

https://talksport.com/football/637125/simon-jordan-premier-league-netflix/

 

Simon Jordan reckons the Premier League should become it's own broadcaster, taking control away from BT and Sky.  I think there is obvious merit in this for the premier league due to massive global scale of the product but could it work in Scotland?  I'm unsure of the exact value of the current tv deal but could we get 750,000 people willing to pay £10 a month?  That would be circa £90 million a year in fees with potential to add advertising revenues on top.

 

Thoughts?


wouldn’t even need that many, pubs/clubs could be charged a few hundred a month. 

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I’d pay a tenner to watch West Ham now and again tbh.

Im a masochist and watching Hearts just isn’t bad enough 😀

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56 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

This was considered years ago. Sky decided to withdraw their offer. 

 

They are essentially the only show in town. 

 

Its absolutely worth exploring. If we did it and made a substantial return they'd absolutely shit themselves because it would mean others would follow suit. They've marketed the EPL for 20+ years so all England need to do is set up their own service and thats all down the pan. 

 

Edit: If they want to withdraw the offer then fine, do it. 

 

The benefit to having been starved by them since 2000 is that they can't give us much less. BT would make us an offer, and I'm sure there would be some deal somewhere which would keep the lights on. Ultimately we've been robbed blind for 20 years. Trying something ambitious is worth it because we have so little to lose. 

Edited by OTT
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3 hours ago, JCR said:

Off topic but I hate the Patriots more than I hate Hibs & am delighted they lost last night. 😋

 

Agreed, Eagles fan right here. Philly Special is my alarm call.

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7 hours ago, Nunya Business said:

We shouldn’t be encouraging people to sit at home and watch the game. We should be encouraging people to do the absolute opposite. 

Being honest, I've never really bought into the idea of televised matches really putting fans off going to the games. Proper passionate fans know that the buzz of being in a stadium is irreplaceable. 

 

Dare I say that there's plenty of factors why people wouldn't go to games, and the fact that it's merely on TV is not one. Or at least it's just one people claim as their reasoning.

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Bazzas right boot

I'd pay for it 100%

 

I'm giving up my bt because they've lost the sky rights. 

 

And sky can **** off. 

 

Given the TV deal of reported £25m-I think. 

 

At £10 a month, £120 a year you'd need  just over 200,000 subscriptions to match it. 

 

At £15 month, 150k, £20, 100k.

 

That wouldn't include set up fees. 

 

 

It would be worth looking at, the TV deal we have makes looking at other avenues worth while. 

 

 

Although I watch the Ucl and the odd Epl game I couldn't give a **** about it. 

 

I want to watch Scottish football. 

 

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jack D and coke
46 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Costs. 

Do you want a 1 camera/1 mic coverage?

 

 

Why does it have to be 1 camera/1 mic coverage? 
I watch Hearts tv etc and it’s not bad. With a little more investment they could turn it into something better especially if all the clubs joined forces.

Something to explore but like everything else it needs to be the right price. Too expensive and it’s just not going to happen. 
Worth looking into imo. 

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12 hours ago, JCR said:

Off topic but I hate the Patriots more than I hate Hibs & am delighted they lost last night. 

As a Texans fan, and married into a Patriots family, I will raise you on the levels of delight. 

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Bazzas right boot
9 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Costs. 

Do you want a 1 camera/1 mic coverage?

 

 

 

Fine by me, couple of go pro's behind the goal. 😁

 

1 mic would be OK as long as it wasn't slavering Paddy or Willie for the full 90.

Imagine.... 

 

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11 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Why does it have to be 1 camera/1 mic coverage? 
I watch Hearts tv etc and it’s not bad. With a little more investment they could turn it into something better especially if all the clubs joined forces.

Something to explore but like everything else it needs to be the right price. Too expensive and it’s just not going to happen. 
Worth looking into imo. 

 

Hearts world can do basic 1 camera / mic coverage with the limited technology needed to upload online for a few thousand viewers, as soon as you scale that up to a live tv broadcast the costs are frightening, an OB van can be upwards of 40-50k per game, satellite uplink costs run into the thousands plus the staff costs for 30-40 people covering camera/sound/scaffolding/catering etc and all of that's for companies like Sky & BT that have their own studio, editing and broadcast facilities already in place, the costs for a startup would be unreal, you just need to look at the likes of Setanta, Premier Sports etc to see that without worldwide interest live sport is a very hard game to make money from.

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jack D and coke
19 minutes ago, Ribble said:

 

Hearts world can do basic 1 camera / mic coverage with the limited technology needed to upload online for a few thousand viewers, as soon as you scale that up to a live tv broadcast the costs are frightening, an OB van can be upwards of 40-50k per game, satellite uplink costs run into the thousands plus the staff costs for 30-40 people covering camera/sound/scaffolding/catering etc and all of that's for companies like Sky & BT that have their own studio, editing and broadcast facilities already in place, the costs for a startup would be unreal, you just need to look at the likes of Setanta, Premier Sports etc to see that without worldwide interest live sport is a very hard game to make money from.

Yeah understood mate.
The normal SPL games on sky don’t get anymore than thousands of viewers either though I’m not sure it’s that insurmountable tbh. 
I’d pay for a good Scottish football service personally. One that wasn’t completely OF focused. 

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I gave up on Sky, BT, Virgin etc years ago. Sick of getting ripped a new one by the cost.

 

Got an amazon prime TV stick and Netflix. Find myself saving a fortune.

 

Of course it meant giving up on live football unless it came on freeview but I could live with that more than shelling out the cost of paying to watch it on TV. 

 

Now Amazon start streaming live EPL games on prime tonight my son and I are bouncing. Can't wait to sit down and watch a game for the fraction of what it used to cost on sky.

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23 hours ago, Byyy The Light said:

https://talksport.com/football/637125/simon-jordan-premier-league-netflix/

 

Simon Jordan reckons the Premier League should become it's own broadcaster, taking control away from BT and Sky.  I think there is obvious merit in this for the premier league due to massive global scale of the product but could it work in Scotland?  I'm unsure of the exact value of the current tv deal but could we get 750,000 people willing to pay £10 a month?  That would be circa £90 million a year in fees with potential to add advertising revenues on top.

 

Thoughts?

 

On those figures even £5 a month would pay £45million a year, that's the price of a pint in a lot of Edinburgh pubs.

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Already got a ready made platform with YouTube.

I'm not sure the terms or how much revenue it generates but Russian premier league and La Liga 2 both officially broadcast live matches on youtube.

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1 hour ago, Bauld said:

I gave up on Sky, BT, Virgin etc years ago. Sick of getting ripped a new one by the cost.

 

Got an amazon prime TV stick and Netflix. Find myself saving a fortune.

 

Of course it meant giving up on live football unless it came on freeview but I could live with that more than shelling out the cost of paying to watch it on TV. 

 

Now Amazon start streaming live EPL games on prime tonight my son and I are bouncing. Can't wait to sit down and watch a game for the fraction of what it used to cost on sky.


Freesports is a great channel. Lots of live sports (I like the Ice Hockey) but if you dont mind being outside the EPL bubble you get lots of Portuguese/Italian football etc as well as MLS and various highlight shows (Serie A, Lower League England)

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1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

Yeah understood mate.
The normal SPL games on sky don’t get anymore than thousands of viewers either though I’m not sure it’s that insurmountable tbh. 
I’d pay for a good Scottish football service personally. One that wasn’t completely OF focused. 

 

It's more that when a game is shown on Sky it is setup technically to cope with millions tuning in rather than 2/3 thousand.

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jack D and coke
3 hours ago, Ribble said:

 

It's more that when a game is shown on Sky it is setup technically to cope with millions tuning in rather than 2/3 thousand.

Yeah I know bud. I know a little about this stuff though they just need extra servers and load balancing. Hooky iptv suppliers can do it I’m sure the SPL could sort it and cope. 

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