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Battle with bathroom fitting company


highlandjambo3

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highlandjambo3

Just looking for opinions here if anyone in the past has dealt with small claims court (now known as simple procedures).

 

The story:

 

In may we decided to have a bathroom refitted at a cost of around £8k.  £3.800 was paid upfront as a deposit and, it was agreed the fit would take place the week commencing 14 October, it was made quite clear during discussions that the date was non flexible (we are a guesthouse) and, there was no other window available this year to move the date, they were fine with this.

 

5 days before the fit was due they telephoned to say there was a job over run and our fit starting point could not take place, I was miffed but, held my tongue and said I was extremely disappointed and requested a refund.  They offered no alternative fitting date.  That was the last time they held any communication with me.

 

Since that call I have sent 5 e mails, the first was to request a renegotiation date in January 2020 at a date suitable for them, the other e mails requested my refund be returned, all were ignored.  I also called and my wife visited the showroom but, there were no managers to talk to at that point.  I sent 2 registered letters requesting a refund and, each letter gave a cut off date for payment to be made, the second letter mentioned getting the courts involved on 11 November, both letters were ignored so, it’s now lodged with the court (at my expense) and we’ll see where we go.  That was a whole month of asking for my money back.

 

I am posting to get a 3rd party opinion on where You think I am with this and, is there something obvious I may have missed?

 

So, to answer one or two obvious questions......there was no contract written up or signed for but, surly that’s more the fool them as this is their job they failed to do and there is no failure on my behalf........

 

Here is a quote from the trading standards website regarding consumer rights 2015:

  • Claims and promises made during discussions with consumers about services (like home improvements) will be contractually binding on businesses


As far as I can see, I have done everything I can to communicate and mediate this situation, including renegotiate another installation date.......at no point have they made any attempt to communicate this issue any further.

 

Does anyone know any good reason why they should not pay back MY money (for the life of me I can’t think of one single reason).

 

Thanks

 

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I’d be interested to hear who this is also. I had a similar situation with a bathroom company/fitter in the highlands.... albeit about 8 years ago now. 

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If you’ve paid cash you’ve got a battle on your hands , maybe involve consumer direct ? 
If you’ve paid by card , which I hope you have , get them involved . 
Either way hope you get it sorted . 

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highlandjambo3

They are fairly new...... won’t name them yet as I need to remain squeaky clean before this goes to court......hence the reason I didn’t go down balling and screaming kicking the door down...... I dont even know how they will survive the first question the court asks them..........will hit local news paper as well...... I have a feeling they will pay up before the court sets a date.

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highlandjambo3
3 minutes ago, 3fingersreid said:

If you’ve paid cash you’ve got a battle on your hands , maybe involve consumer direct ? 
If you’ve paid by card , which I hope you have , get them involved . 
Either way hope you get it sorted . 

Paid by BAC’s transfer into their account with invoice returned by them to prove this....... I feel quite confident and fail to understand why they think keeping my dosh is acceptable.

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Hire Transit van. Put 4 knuckle scraping mates in it. Visit said firm with mates. Eloquently and urbanely state your position whilst knuckle scraping mates look on. Pocket your money and leave. Sorted.

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2 minutes ago, EH11_2NL said:

Hire Transit van. Put 4 knuckle scraping mates in it. Visit said firm with mates. Eloquently and urbanely state your position whilst knuckle scraping mates look on. Pocket your money and leave. Sorted.

Well that's certainly a 'simple procedure'.

 

Op, I'd be pressing on with the claim, even if they say they'll do the job in January.  You have no guarantee they will actually do the job. Also, the fact they've not paid you might mean possible financial trouble, and it might be wise to try and get your money back in case they go tits up.

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highlandjambo3
1 minute ago, Lemongrab said:

Well that's certainly a 'simple procedure'.

 

Op, I'd be pressing on with the claim, even if they say they'll do the job in January.  You have no guarantee they will actually do the job. Also, the fact they've not paid you might mean possible financial trouble, and it might be wise to try and get your money back in case they go tits up.

I’ve prepared my answer in court should I be asked to re negotiate.......

 

1. I did try to negotiate a new date within 24hrs of their call and received no response.  
2.  I have another fitter quoted for the job early next year.

3.  they have failed once what’s to say they won’t pull the plug again.


also, after all the pish so far.......I don’t want them anywhere near the job.

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49 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

I’ve prepared my answer in court should I be asked to re negotiate.......

 

1. I did try to negotiate a new date within 24hrs of their call and received no response.  
2.  I have another fitter quoted for the job early next year.

3.  they have failed once what’s to say they won’t pull the plug again.


also, after all the pish so far.......I don’t want them anywhere near the job.

Citizens advice might be worth a try , they might give you a template for a letter that helps out . 
Next time use a card , never cash for that amount mate 👍🏻

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highlandjambo3
22 minutes ago, 3fingersreid said:

Citizens advice might be worth a try , they might give you a template for a letter that helps out . 
Next time use a card , never cash for that amount mate 👍🏻

I didn’t use cash, I used BAC’s payment from my business account into theirs, 100% traceable with the RBS able to confirm this actually happened.  I feel quite confident and, just wanted others opinions Incase I have missed something glaringly obvious.  Cheers 

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1 minute ago, highlandjambo3 said:

I didn’t use cash, I used BAC’s payment from my business account into theirs, 100% traceable with the RBS able to confirm this actually happened.  I feel quite confident and, just wanted others opinions Incase I have missed something glaringly obvious.  Cheers 

Sorry I should’ve double read it before replying . Would the bank not be able to help legally as it seems almost like theft as you’ve paid for a service not provided ? 

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Unfortunately there are some utter snakes out there.    Common thieves.

 

My take on it would be to assume they're not going to do anything.     To leave it in the legal system and allow it to take it's course.    To attempt to set it aside and concentrate on other things.     Don't allow it to dominate you.

 

Good luck.

Edited by Victorian
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2 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Paid by BAC’s transfer into their account with invoice returned by them to prove this....... I feel quite confident and fail to understand why they think keeping my dosh is acceptable.

More than likely they don't have the cash to pay you back. Sounds like you will win your case but getting repaid is an entirely different matter.

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highlandjambo3
36 minutes ago, 3fingersreid said:

Sorry I should’ve double read it before replying . Would the bank not be able to help legally as it seems almost like theft as you’ve paid for a service not provided ? 

The bank will if required but, it’s in the courts hands now

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5 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

The bank will if required but, it’s in the courts hands now

Best of luck to you 👍🏻

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I had an absolute nightmare with a bathroom company a few years ago . 
delays, shoddy workmanship , leaks , electrical faults etc etc . 
Certainly happy to name & shame Redpath Bathrooms from Musselburgh for the rest of my life ! 

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You'll get your money back plus court fees.

Small claims is very simple and nothing to be worried about, prepare your witness statement, memories it and stick to the story. 

Don't kick up a fuss and behave. 

 

Jobs a good un. 

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highlandjambo3
3 hours ago, Sheriffs said:

You'll get your money back plus court fees.

Small claims is very simple and nothing to be worried about, prepare your witness statement, memories it and stick to the story. 

Don't kick up a fuss and behave. 

 

Jobs a good un. 

I agree.....all ready to face judge Rinder.........I’m claiming back £4400 which includes loss of earnings and court fees

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8 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

I agree.....all ready to face judge Rinder.........I’m claiming back £4400 which includes loss of earnings and court fees

 

Don't forget the 8% interest.  ;) 

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You have tried to resolve the issue by sending letters, copies of which I hope you have kept as you may require them as evidence. I would advise that you have no other option than to go to Court. As previously stated, I would be surprised if they contest this however you may win your case and have a judgement in your favour but that is not the same as getting your money back. You may have to employ Sheriff's Officers to get your cash.

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highlandjambo3
52 minutes ago, inspector said:

You have tried to resolve the issue by sending letters, copies of which I hope you have kept as you may require them as evidence. I would advise that you have no other option than to go to Court. As previously stated, I would be surprised if they contest this however you may win your case and have a judgement in your favour but that is not the same as getting your money back. You may have to employ Sheriff's Officers to get your cash.

Yes I have copies of everything, I’ll do what it takes......any additional fee will be served on them

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1 hour ago, inspector said:

You have tried to resolve the issue by sending letters, copies of which I hope you have kept as you may require them as evidence. I would advise that you have no other option than to go to Court. As previously stated, I would be surprised if they contest this however you may win your case and have a judgement in your favour but that is not the same as getting your money back. You may have to employ Sheriff's Officers to get your cash.

so he will end up down the barras with taps the locals dont know about to get his money back?

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highlandjambo3

I’m not sure how viable an e Mail is.  During a telephone conversation with them an admin girl, when I mentioned XYZ e mails about the installation, she said she could not find them.  Obviously been deleted at their end but, not at my end.  In my “sent” messages box I have one or two bits of communication messages which are evidence but, they clearly don’t so...........

 

fast forward to the court appearance and me V knuckle dragger standing in the dock, I mention said e mails and knuckle dragger says “I didn’t get that one”........ is this a stumbling block as I cannot actually prove who read these as the e mail address is a generic sales address for the whole shop and not sent to an individual.  What they chose to do with my e mails I have no idea.

 

I did mention on my court form that I was willing to get an IT expert to prove the authenticity of my e mails (at their expense) but, that still does not prove who actually opened/read/binned them.....

 

Any thoughts?

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If you have sent numerous e-mails, it is unlikely that they could claim that none were received. I doubt that this would a stumbling block as you still have the letters that you have sent. The e-mails only back up what you have said in the letters

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2 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

I’m not sure how viable an e Mail is.  During a telephone conversation with them an admin girl, when I mentioned XYZ e mails about the installation, she said she could not find them.  Obviously been deleted at their end but, not at my end.  In my “sent” messages box I have one or two bits of communication messages which are evidence but, they clearly don’t so...........

 

fast forward to the court appearance and me V knuckle dragger standing in the dock, I mention said e mails and knuckle dragger says “I didn’t get that one”........ is this a stumbling block as I cannot actually prove who read these as the e mail address is a generic sales address for the whole shop and not sent to an individual.  What they chose to do with my e mails I have no idea.

 

I did mention on my court form that I was willing to get an IT expert to prove the authenticity of my e mails (at their expense) but, that still does not prove who actually opened/read/binned them.....

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

I wouldn't worry about it. You can prove you sent them and if necessary that they were delivered. Whether they read them or not is their prerogative and is no different to a letter in that respect. Just because you received a letter, doesn't mean you opened and read it.

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Sawdust Caesar
5 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

I’m not sure how viable an e Mail is.  During a telephone conversation with them an admin girl, when I mentioned XYZ e mails about the installation, she said she could not find them.  Obviously been deleted at their end but, not at my end.  In my “sent” messages box I have one or two bits of communication messages which are evidence but, they clearly don’t so...........

 

fast forward to the court appearance and me V knuckle dragger standing in the dock, I mention said e mails and knuckle dragger says “I didn’t get that one”........ is this a stumbling block as I cannot actually prove who read these as the e mail address is a generic sales address for the whole shop and not sent to an individual.  What they chose to do with my e mails I have no idea.

 

I did mention on my court form that I was willing to get an IT expert to prove the authenticity of my e mails (at their expense) but, that still does not prove who actually opened/read/binned them.....

 

Any thoughts?

If you have the correct e-mail address for the company I don't know how they could say they didn't receive them if you can show that is where they were sent to. Especially as it has gone to the company's e-mail address and not an individual seen as it is the company with which you have the issue.

 

I regularly lodge Simple Procedure Claim Forms in the sheriff courts and in the part where it asks what steps you have taken to resolve the issue I state that my organisation has written to the respondent several times requesting payment of the money they owe, which the courts have accepted. If someone disputes our claim then the sheriff may order what is called a Case Management Discussion to be held at the court with both parties attending. The sheriff will also ask us to contact the other side to see if we can "narrow the issues in the dispute" or better still, settle it before the meeting. If that happens to you and the company does not respond, or bother attending the meeting then I would think the sheriff will decide in your favour. Not at that meeting though, that will happen later. If they attend the meeting and you have copies of the e-mails I would like to think the sheriff will accept them as evidence in your favour.

 

In my experience, in cases of he said/she said the sheriff tends to come down on the side of the little guy, but I wouldn't bank on that for certain.

 

Whatever happens, good luck mate.

 

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highlandjambo3
9 minutes ago, Sawdust Caesar said:

If you have the correct e-mail address for the company I don't know how they could say they didn't receive them if you can show that is where they were sent to. Especially as it has gone to the company's e-mail address and not an individual seen as it is the company with which you have the issue.

 

I regularly lodge Simple Procedure Claim Forms in the sheriff courts and in the part where it asks what steps you have taken to resolve the issue I state that my organisation has written to the respondent several times requesting payment of the money they owe, which the courts have accepted. If someone disputes our claim then the sheriff may order what is called a Case Management Discussion to be held at the court with both parties attending. The sheriff will also ask us to contact the other side to see if we can "narrow the issues in the dispute" or better still, settle it before the meeting. If that happens to you and the company does not respond, or bother attending the meeting then I would think the sheriff will decide in your favour. Not at that meeting though, that will happen later. If they attend the meeting and you have copies of the e-mails I would like to think the sheriff will accept them as evidence in your favour.

 

In my experience, in cases of he said/she said the sheriff tends to come down on the side of the little guy, but I wouldn't bank on that for certain.

 

Whatever happens, good luck mate.

 

Ok, thanks for that info.  
 

I am not going to accept any middle ground now based on the fact that I now have another installation date from another bathroom fitter early January and, I’ve agreed their quote (which payment will be due after the work).  So, I would hope the court won’t come up with the conclusion that I should accept the original fitters with a new agreed install date, that would be unfair as I had already agreed to discuss an alternative date but they didn’t respond.  I am hoping it does not go that way.

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Make sure you keep evidence of everything you have done (emails, letters etc). 

 

When you made the payment, did you have an invoice from the company detailing the amount to be paid and the services it was for? As this would definitely be useful. 

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Wait until resolution of the issue first, but once it’s done and dusted name and shame on social media. Is there not sites like Check a Tradesman etc where customers give reviews of companies?

 

The internet is a thorn in the side of cowboys like this. 

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Sawdust Caesar
3 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Ok, thanks for that info.  
 

I am not going to accept any middle ground now based on the fact that I now have another installation date from another bathroom fitter early January and, I’ve agreed their quote (which payment will be due after the work).  So, I would hope the court won’t come up with the conclusion that I should accept the original fitters with a new agreed install date, that would be unfair as I had already agreed to discuss an alternative date but they didn’t respond.  I am hoping it does not go that way.

There is a part of the claim form, D5,  which asks what you want to happen e.g. do you want the court to order them to pay you a sum of money, deliver something to you or do something for you, so you just tick the box asking the court to order them to pay the money. You can state on the form that you have hired someone else to do the job so only a refund is desired.

 

I think what you may have to worry about more is if the company is going to the wall and some other creditor has them wound up and you end up on a list with all the other people they owe money to which probably means you wont get back all that you paid. The reason I say that is that if they are doing well and wont miss your business why risk legal action against them. It could be they are struggling which is why they are refusing to refund you. Hopefully they are just chancing it and will pay up when they are served with the claim form.

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highlandjambo3
1 hour ago, Sawdust Caesar said:

There is a part of the claim form, D5,  which asks what you want to happen e.g. do you want the court to order them to pay you a sum of money, deliver something to you or do something for you, so you just tick the box asking the court to order them to pay the money. You can state on the form that you have hired someone else to do the job so only a refund is desired.

 

I think what you may have to worry about more is if the company is going to the wall and some other creditor has them wound up and you end up on a list with all the other people they owe money to which probably means you wont get back all that you paid. The reason I say that is that if they are doing well and wont miss your business why risk legal action against them. It could be they are struggling which is why they are refusing to refund you. Hopefully they are just chancing it and will pay up when they are served with the claim form.

Thanks,

I did see the part about what I wanted the court to do, which was pay me the money, I didn’t see any part about saying I have organised someone else to do the job...... I’m sure it will work out.

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highlandjambo3
4 hours ago, TheOak88 said:

Make sure you keep evidence of everything you have done (emails, letters etc). 

 

When you made the payment, did you have an invoice from the company detailing the amount to be paid and the services it was for? As this would definitely be useful. 

I have a full list of all the services they had promised, removal of old kit, labour, every new item they were installing etc

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highlandjambo3
4 hours ago, TheOak88 said:

Wait until resolution of the issue first, but once it’s done and dusted name and shame on social media. Is there not sites like Check a Tradesman etc where customers give reviews of companies?

 

The internet is a thorn in the side of cowboys like this. 

I will plaster their name every where I can but, need to be careful that the info I mention is fact and not opinion 

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On 18/11/2019 at 18:32, highlandjambo3 said:

Just looking for opinions here if anyone in the past has dealt with small claims court (now known as simple procedures).

 

The story:

 

In may we decided to have a bathroom refitted at a cost of around £8k.  £3.800 was paid upfront as a deposit and, it was agreed the fit would take place the week commencing 14 October, it was made quite clear during discussions that the date was non flexible (we are a guesthouse) and, there was no other window available this year to move the date, they were fine with this.

 

5 days before the fit was due they telephoned to say there was a job over run and our fit starting point could not take place, I was miffed but, held my tongue and said I was extremely disappointed and requested a refund.  They offered no alternative fitting date.  That was the last time they held any communication with me.

 

Since that call I have sent 5 e mails, the first was to request a renegotiation date in January 2020 at a date suitable for them, the other e mails requested my refund be returned, all were ignored.  I also called and my wife visited the showroom but, there were no managers to talk to at that point.  I sent 2 registered letters requesting a refund and, each letter gave a cut off date for payment to be made, the second letter mentioned getting the courts involved on 11 November, both letters were ignored so, it’s now lodged with the court (at my expense) and we’ll see where we go.  That was a whole month of asking for my money back.

 

I am posting to get a 3rd party opinion on where You think I am with this and, is there something obvious I may have missed?

 

So, to answer one or two obvious questions......there was no contract written up or signed for but, surly that’s more the fool them as this is their job they failed to do and there is no failure on my behalf........

 

Here is a quote from the trading standards website regarding consumer rights 2015:

  • Claims and promises made during discussions with consumers about services (like home improvements) will be contractually binding on businesses


As far as I can see, I have done everything I can to communicate and mediate this situation, including renegotiate another installation date.......at no point have they made any attempt to communicate this issue any further.

 

Does anyone know any good reason why they should not pay back MY money (for the life of me I can’t think of one single reason).

 

Thanks

 


I can’t remember how we did it but we put a charge against a contractor on companies house for one of our festivals who ****ed us about for about 20k then the costs of replacing their work at short notice which was about 30k. I think each charge can only be a maximum if £5000 and the £5000 would cover your deposit and some of the costs. I’m sure it has to be via the solicitor and possibly court but then delivered by Sherrrrrifffffs ahoffisifers !!!

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16 hours ago, Sawdust Caesar said:

There is a part of the claim form, D5,  which asks what you want to happen e.g. do you want the court to order them to pay you a sum of money, deliver something to you or do something for you, so you just tick the box asking the court to order them to pay the money. You can state on the form that you have hired someone else to do the job so only a refund is desired.

 

I think what you may have to worry about more is if the company is going to the wall and some other creditor has them wound up and you end up on a list with all the other people they owe money to which probably means you wont get back all that you paid. The reason I say that is that if they are doing well and wont miss your business why risk legal action against them. It could be they are struggling which is why they are refusing to refund you. Hopefully they are just chancing it and will pay up when they are served with the claim form.


The charge I mentioned against them on Companies house im sure allows you to circumvent this and means you are entitled to your money before others (Again check the info there but im sure thats part of why we used them)

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Sawdust Caesar
14 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Thanks,

I did see the part about what I wanted the court to do, which was pay me the money, I didn’t see any part about saying I have organised someone else to do the job...... I’m sure it will work out.

There isn't a specific part for saying that but you can attach a separate sheet of paper to include further information. If you are saying you want a refund then you don't really need to explain why so just ticking the refund box will do.

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highlandjambo3

Ok,

Thanks for all your replies.

I received notification from the courts and a time table of events  (as did the bathroom fitters), they have until 13 December to respond........ I feel a hibsed it coming and they will concede before this.........which will then allow me to publicly shame them.  Think I’ll send an e mail to every accommodation outlet provider in the area about my experience.

 

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annushorribilis III

Hi, mate.

 

I had a "mate" who I loaned a substantial amount  of cash to who dicked me about so I used the you.gov online service. I told my "mate" that when I won my case (he had no chance) I would immediately get a CCJ and get his car , the shirt off his back , even if it meant I'd never get all my money back.  He thought I was bluffing but caved in when he was contacted for his view official view  things. 

 

Anyway - don't be discouraged. The service is so easy to use, it only costs £60.

You can ask for the £60 to be added to your claim AND you can claim interest on the sum owed.

That's assuming you win - NB IT IS NOT DECIDED LIKE CRIMINAL LAW , BUT ON BALANCE OF PROBABILITY (or similar). 

 It only takes 20 mins or so to enter all the details you need to get the ball rolling.This will then be sent by the you.gov service to the debtor. They have 28 days to respond & if they don't- you win by default. You don't have to accept any payment plan , you can ask for a court order and just get the bailiffs in .  You can make this clear in your submission and the debtors will see this - they'll know you mean business. 

 

I don't have the URL but I'm attaching some info from the emailI got from you.gov.

 

Best of luck. 

*****************

Download your claim by signing in to https://www.moneyclaims.service.gov.uk/dashboard

This is an automated email – we can’t respond to replies.

HM Courts & Tribunals Service
Your claim number: 

Telephone: 0300 123 7050
Hours: 9am to 5pm, Monday to Friday
Find out about call charges https://www.gov.uk/call-charges

Email: [email protected]

Edited by annushorribilis III
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highlandjambo3
3 hours ago, annushorribilis III said:

Hi, mate.

 

I had a "mate" who I loaned a substantial amount  of cash to who dicked me about so I used the you.gov online service. I told my "mate" that when I won my case (he had no chance) I would immediately get a CCJ and get his car , the shirt off his back , even if it meant I'd never get all my money back.  He thought I was bluffing but caved in when he was contacted for his view official view  things. 

 

Anyway - don't be discouraged. The service is so easy to use, it only costs £60.

You can ask for the £60 to be added to your claim AND you can claim interest on the sum owed.

That's assuming you win - NB IT IS NOT DECIDED LIKE CRIMINAL LAW , BUT ON BALANCE OF PROBABILITY (or similar). 

 It only takes 20 mins or so to enter all the details you need to get the ball rolling.This will then be sent by the you.gov service to the debtor. They have 28 days to respond & if they don't- you win by default. You don't have to accept any payment plan , you can ask for a court order and just get the bailiffs in .  You can make this clear in your submission and the debtors will see this - they'll know you mean business. 

 

I don't have the URL but I'm attaching some info from the emailI got from you.gov.

 

Best of luck. 

*****************

Download your claim by signing in to https://www.moneyclaims.service.gov.uk/dashboard

This is an automated email – we can’t respond to replies.

HM Courts & Tribunals Service
Your claim number: 

Telephone: 0300 123 7050
Hours: 9am to 5pm, Monday to Friday
Find out about call charges https://www.gov.uk/call-charges

Email: [email protected]

Thanks for that so, let me get this right, say the court order them to pay back the claim in full am I right in saying that they can then toss about by coming up with some sort of crap repayment plan which the court and I have to accept but, based on what you say, I can then go on and speed up a full payment settlement based on what assets they owe?  I know the owner has a shiny nearly new Audi Q7 that he will want to keep.

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annushorribilis III
1 hour ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Thanks for that so, let me get this right, say the court order them to pay back the claim in full am I right in saying that they can then toss about by coming up with some sort of crap repayment plan which the court and I have to accept but, based on what you say, I can then go on and speed up a full payment settlement based on what assets they owe?  I know the owner has a shiny nearly new Audi Q7 that he will want to keep.

Step 1  - win your case first

Step 2 - not sure if you have to accept any repayment plan. It's explained on the yougov website. Step 1 can simply mean establishing that you have  a case to pursue further. In my case, the guy shat himself and just paid up. 

 

 Obviously winning the case at step 1 is what matters . Under English law , I planned to get a CCJ*** (don't know how it works in Scotland) and then just get an enforcement order for seizure of goods. What your  builder chums will begin to understand is that you mean business - that means seizure of tools, vans, company assets. Anything that can be sold at auction. 

 

Take a look at the website - it's not difficult or too time consuming. You get the chance to state your case - If I was you, I'd be making clear that a repayment plan is not acceptable - given they have flat refused to refund anything so far. This isn't about inability to pay, it's a refusal to pay. 

 

***After winning, all the additional costs just get added on so the guilty party doesn't just owe the original debt but all legal costs incurred , interest etc. 

 

 

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highlandjambo3
6 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

Step 1  - win your case first

Step 2 - not sure if you have to accept any repayment plan. It's explained on the yougov website. Step 1 can simply mean establishing that you have  a case to pursue further. In my case, the guy shat himself and just paid up. 

 

 Obviously winning the case at step 1 is what matters . Under English law , I planned to get a CCJ*** (don't know how it works in Scotland) and then just get an enforcement order for seizure of goods. What your  builder chums will begin to understand is that you mean business - that means seizure of tools, vans, company assets. Anything that can be sold at auction. 

 

Take a look at the website - it's not difficult or too time consuming. You get the chance to state your case - If I was you, I'd be making clear that a repayment plan is not acceptable - given they have flat refused to refund anything so far. This isn't about inability to pay, it's a refusal to pay. 

 

***After winning, all the additional costs just get added on so the guilty party doesn't just owe the original debt but all legal costs incurred , interest etc. 

 

 

Ok, I’ll keep all this in mind....l thanks for the info

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Sawdust Caesar
1 hour ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Thanks for that so, let me get this right, say the court order them to pay back the claim in full am I right in saying that they can then toss about by coming up with some sort of crap repayment plan which the court and I have to accept but, based on what you say, I can then go on and speed up a full payment settlement based on what assets they owe?  I know the owner has a shiny nearly new Audi Q7 that he will want to keep.

When you contact the court after the respond date has passed and the court tell you the firm have lodged a time to pay application you can reject it. If they offered to pay, say, £1,200 pound a month you may think that is worth accepting, however if they offered a TTP of £120 per month you would quite rightly tell them to shove it. If you accepted a Time to Pay offer the court will still grant the Decision (the Simple Procedure equivalent of a decree but essentially the same thing) in your favour but it will also state that the respondent has offered to pay a certain amount each month. If they then did not stick to that agreement you can then enforce the decree. If they do put in a TTP application and you reject it the sheriff will order a hearing where you both turn up and argue your case. The sheriff will then decide whether to grant or refuse the TTP application.

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highlandjambo3
10 minutes ago, Sawdust Caesar said:

When you contact the court after the respond date has passed and the court tell you the firm have lodged a time to pay application you can reject it. If they offered to pay, say, £1,200 pound a month you may think that is worth accepting, however if they offered a TTP of £120 per month you would quite rightly tell them to shove it. If you accepted a Time to Pay offer the court will still grant the Decision (the Simple Procedure equivalent of a decree but essentially the same thing) in your favour but it will also state that the respondent has offered to pay a certain amount each month. If they then did not stick to that agreement you can then enforce the decree. If they do put in a TTP application and you reject it the sheriff will order a hearing where you both turn up and argue your case. The sheriff will then decide whether to grant or refuse the TTP application.

Thanks....

 

Am I entitled to put in a TTP recommendation that is suitable for me if they can’t pay the whole lot?  It would be fair to say that as they have had the dosh for 5 months, giving them 5 months to pay back would be more than reasonable IMO

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Sawdust Caesar
28 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Thanks....

 

Am I entitled to put in a TTP recommendation that is suitable for me if they can’t pay the whole lot?  It would be fair to say that as they have had the dosh for 5 months, giving them 5 months to pay back would be more than reasonable IMO

That would be something you do if the sheriff orders a hearing because you rejected a low offer. At the hearing you would advise the sheriff  how much you are willing to accept.  You could contact the firm before the Respond Date and let them know that you would accept a TTP offer of X amount, this would negate the need for the hearing, assuming they agreed with your offer.

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highlandjambo3

Update......

 

thought I’d let you know I have received some paperwork from the court, there are 2 dates mentioned as follows........

 

1.  Last date for service - 13/12/2019.  This is the date the claim form must be formally served on the respondent.  I did ask the court to serve this on my behalf so, hopefully it’s already done.

 

2.  Last date for a response - 03/01/2020.  The respondent must do one of 2 things:

     a.  Send a response form to the court and to the claimant or

     b.  If the respondent wants to admit the claim and ask for time to pay, send a time to pay    
           application to the court.

 

sounds like this may take a wee while....... will keep you posted.

 

 

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Brighton Jambo

This is like an episode of ‘Law and Order’. I’m hooked and no clue what’s the legal position on any of it.

 

Totally rooting for you though, make sure you come back on and let us know he outcome and then assuming you win the name of this dodgy outfit.

 

best of luck  

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highlandjambo3
1 hour ago, Brighton Jambo said:This is like an episode of ‘Law and Order’. I’m hooked and no clue what’s the legal position on any of it.

 

Totally rooting for you though, make sure you come back on and let us know he outcome and then assuming you win the name of this dodgy outfit.

 

best of luck  

Will do......

 

I cannot loose this, based on what would it go their way?
 

In summary, I part paid for a job, the job was not done, they are keeping the payment based on what?
 

They will surly take a pasting in court.

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  • 1 month later...
highlandjambo3

Update........

 

The bathroom fitters have disputed the claim, not sure in what way tbh as I have had zero correspondence from them.  Got a letter saying the court date for a case management discussion for both parties with the judge is 29 January.  Also says the judge may make a decision there and then or, set another date for an actual court appearance.  The letter also states (in bold):

 

*1.  ”both parties are encouraged to contact each other to seek to settle the case or, to narrow the dispute before the case management discussion date”

 

**2.  ”at the case management discussion, the judge will also discuss with both parties their attitudes to negotiate and alternative dispute resolution”

 

*. I have already attempted that on a number of occasions as discussed earlier but, here is what I will do.  Write them another letter (tomorrow) recorded saying I am willing to drop the claim in part by forfeit of the loss of earnings.  Meaning my claim will be for my deposit and court costs, around £3.9k.  They will either respond and pay, respond and decline to pay or, not respond.  If they do respond then that will be their first attempt and, only because the court had recommended they should.

 

** If they fail to respond to my negotiation letter then all the better for me as there has been zero attempt by them V’s my many attempts.

 

I feel quite confident here as I appear to hold all the aces, I have acted exactly as the court has recommended before the case was even taken to court.....they have done the complete opposite.

 

 

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37 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Update........

 

The bathroom fitters have disputed the claim, not sure in what way tbh as I have had zero correspondence from them.  Got a letter saying the court date for a case management discussion for both parties with the judge is 29 January.  Also says the judge may make a decision there and then or, set another date for an actual court appearance.  The letter also states (in bold):

 

*1.  ”both parties are encouraged to contact each other to seek to settle the case or, to narrow the dispute before the case management discussion date”

 

**2.  ”at the case management discussion, the judge will also discuss with both parties their attitudes to negotiate and alternative dispute resolution”

 

*. I have already attempted that on a number of occasions as discussed earlier but, here is what I will do.  Write them another letter (tomorrow) recorded saying I am willing to drop the claim in part by forfeit of the loss of earnings.  Meaning my claim will be for my deposit and court costs, around £3.9k.  They will either respond and pay, respond and decline to pay or, not respond.  If they do respond then that will be their first attempt and, only because the court had recommended they should.

 

** If they fail to respond to my negotiation letter then all the better for me as there has been zero attempt by them V’s my many attempts.

 

I feel quite confident here as I appear to hold all the aces, I have acted exactly as the court has recommended before the case was even taken to court.....they have done the complete opposite.

 

 

Just my suggestion - don't back down. Write a simple letter saying you are open to resolving the matter out of court. Ask the company if they're like minded and ask them to propose a way forward. Date/venue etc. Put it back in their court. They will not like being put on the spot. 

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