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General Election 2019


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1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

I said clearly I wasn't laying the blame on the stewards or fire fighters. I was suggesting that we should not absolve the police or fire brigade authorities for blame. And that it was maybe appropriate or even common sense  to ignore their advice and instructions.

 

I've lived in 3 tower blocks in my life and in each it was rammed home how important it is to follow instructions in an emergency, why the safest thing to do is stay put. Your flat is enclosed, isolated from everything else it's the safest place to be, while panicked residents taking to the stairs would quickly turn to chaos.

 

When you realise that all the fire ladders in the world won't be able to help on the 18th floor, you listen pretty ****ing carefully to expert advice.

 

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6 hours ago, The White Cockade said:

Any half decent Labour leader would have won the Theresa May election

but nobody wants to vote for Corbyn to take over with his entourage of nutters

and he won't win this election

The tories current lot of MP's are absolutely horrendous and with most of the moderates

leaving the Party or standing down it means more  Boris supporters replacing them

So we are going to have a far more right wing anti working class privatise the NHS Government in a few weeks

then Corbyn will probably resign or be pushed when it is too late and he has destroyed his party

Trump and Bojo in charge of the Western World

You couldn't make it up

Sad times

 

This is where I am. A 2nd Term for Trumpet Man next year would put a tin lid on it. The possibilities are limitless.

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AlphonseCapone
6 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Fair enough

 It is a difficult question

 But I think.it is good for people not to accept official or expert advice umquestiomingly. As some Grenfell survivors did not.

Going back a bit if you were a steward at Hillsborough would you have accepted the police decision not to open the gates to the pitch?

 

Easy to sit on the internet and proclaim what you would and wouldn't do. Until you have actually been in such extreme situations you don't have a ****ing clue what you would really do.

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Don’t be fooled by the failure of the Tory/Brexit Party pact.  At the end of the day, on Friday 13th I still expect Johnson and Farage to be sitting in a car heading for the palace as a leave alliance coalition.  Johnson knows that a voting pact with Farage would put off the hardcore Labour leave voters in the North and Midlands who would never be seen voting Tory.  Equally, he knows that as long as he wins the election, he can do his usual “they made me do it” act on the doorstep of number 10/in the commons in pretty much any situation.

 

My current prediction;

Tories - 300 seats (small loss on 2017, due to BP and Lid Dem improvement)

Labour - 140 seats (they’ll get slaughtered, BP, SNP and Lib Dem will take seats)

Lib Dem - 80 seats (They’ll do well, but Swinson may lose her seat)

Brexit Party - 55 seats (They’ll do well)

SNP - 45 seats (they’ll pretty much wipe out in Scotland)

Other - 30 seats (ish)


Tory/Brexit coalition incoming 😔😔😔

 

 

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8 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

I've lived in 3 tower blocks in my life and in each it was rammed home how important it is to follow instructions in an emergency, why the safest thing to do is stay put. Your flat is enclosed, isolated from everything else it's the safest place to be, while panicked residents taking to the stairs would quickly turn to chaos.

 

When you realise that all the fire ladders in the world won't be able to help on the 18th floor, you listen pretty ****ing carefully to expert advice.

 

 

Apart from when smoke is getting into people's houses 16 floors away within 10 minutes, water being hosed on the outside is making the fire worse within 20 minutes and the fire has spread right to the top and down the other side within 30 minutes. 

 

Among other things in the Inquiry Report.

 

I remember when the Police were defended without question. 

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1 hour ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Don’t be fooled by the failure of the Tory/Brexit Party pact.  At the end of the day, on Friday 13th I still expect Johnson and Farage to be sitting in a car heading for the palace as a leave alliance coalition.  Johnson knows that a voting pact with Farage would put off the hardcore Labour leave voters in the North and Midlands who would never be seen voting Tory.  Equally, he knows that as long as he wins the election, he can do his usual “they made me do it” act on the doorstep of number 10/in the commons in pretty much any situation.

 

My current prediction;

Tories - 300 seats (small loss on 2017, due to BP and Lid Dem improvement)

Labour - 140 seats (they’ll get slaughtered, BP, SNP and Lib Dem will take seats)

Lib Dem - 80 seats (They’ll do well, but Swinson may lose her seat)

Brexit Party - 55 seats (They’ll do well)

SNP - 45 seats (they’ll pretty much wipe out in Scotland)

Other - 30 seats (ish)


Tory/Brexit coalition incoming 😔😔😔

 

 

 

In a first past the post system, you're being a bit optimistic imo, really can't see the Brexit Party taking anything more than 10 if anywhere near that & the Lib Dems will be lucky to get past 40.

 

The problem the Lib Dems have is that they genuinely think that the vote they got in the Euro's meant that they have a huge support countrywide, when in fact imo their good showing in the Euro's was nothing more than a protest vote to primarily give the Tories & Labour a bloody nose.

 

But say you're right, whilst the SNP would make gains in Scotland, it would be a disaster for them at Westminster, because being the 5th largest party they would lose a lot of the perks they get the now being the 3rd largest party in Westminster, they'd drop well down the pecking order.

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manaliveits105

I think the ayebags underestimate the silent majoritys dislike of Sturgo and disappointment of the Scottish No Policy parties poor performance on domestic matters over the last few years whilst concentrating on their unicorn (Indyref2)

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The Real Maroonblood
Just now, manaliveits105 said:

I think the ayebags underestimate the silent majoritys dislike of Sturgo and disappointment of the Scottish No Policy parties poor performance on domestic matters over the last few years whilst concentrating on their unicorn (Indyref2)

:cornette_dog:

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18 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

I think the ayebags underestimate the silent majoritys dislike of Sturgo and disappointment of the Scottish No Policy parties poor performance on domestic matters over the last few years whilst concentrating on their unicorn (Indyref2)

 

tenor.gif

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26 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

I think the ayebags underestimate the silent majoritys dislike of Sturgo and disappointment of the Scottish No Policy parties poor performance on domestic matters over the last few years whilst concentrating on their unicorn (Indyref2)

Ayebag, really? Nawbag rhymes better.

 

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All sorts of dishonestly and criminal behaviour in the Tory party and Ian Austin is still ranting about Corbyn being unfit to be PM,  etc.      

 

The guy is demented.    **** off you slimy *****.

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34 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

I think the ayebags underestimate the silent majoritys dislike of Sturgo and disappointment of the Scottish No Policy parties poor performance on domestic matters over the last few years whilst concentrating on their unicorn (Indyref2)

Compared to Boris and the Tories record. 

Tick Tick nawbags!

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Francis Albert
3 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Apart from when smoke is getting into people's houses 16 floors away within 10 minutes, water being hosed on the outside is making the fire worse within 20 minutes and the fire has spread right to the top and down the other side within 30 minutes. 

 

Among other things in the Inquiry Report.

 

I remember when the Police were defended without question. 

Yes. What might be right in a conventional fire spreading relatively slowly from say a boiler room or kitchen or localised

electrical fault may not be right when a fire quickly engulfs the entire exterior of the building. Common sense?

 

Mogg's comment was crass and insensitive but  some of the comments on here also seem a little simplistic at least.

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52 minutes ago, Victorian said:

All sorts of dishonestly and criminal behaviour in the Tory party and Ian Austin is still ranting about Corbyn being unfit to be PM,  etc.      

 

The guy is demented.    **** off you slimy *****.

 

I mean, to be fair they're not mutually exclusive propositions :lol:

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15 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

I mean, to be fair they're not mutually exclusive propositions :lol:

 

He's been telling people to vote Tory.    Whining about Corbyn's fitness to govern but conveniently forgetting all about the myriad examples of Tory dishonesty.

 

The reality is that he's a deranged individual with a grudge.     It's all about a personal vendetta rather than a genuine political philosophy.

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3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

The reality is that he's a deranged individual with a grudge.     It's all about a personal vendetta rather than a genuine political philosophy.

 

Yeah for sure--this seems certain.

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7 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

He's been telling people to vote Tory.    Whining about Corbyn's fitness to govern but conveniently forgetting all about the myriad examples of Tory dishonesty.

 

The reality is that he's a deranged individual with a grudge.     It's all about a personal vendetta rather than a genuine political philosophy.

To be fair I think he is old Labour. He for me represents what the party used to stand for before its lurch to the extreme left under Corbyn. 

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5 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

To be fair I think he is old Labour. He for me represents what the party used to stand for before its lurch to the extreme left under Corbyn. 

 

Tired old myth alert. 

 

If he's Labour then he should be supporting Labour MPs to get elected.    It's individual Labour people he's damaging.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

Tired old myth alert. 

 

If he's Labour then he should be supporting Labour MPs to get elected.    It's individual Labour people he's damaging.

 

 

The Labour Party has changed which is why I stopped voting for it. No myth at all. He is not Labour anymore he is an independent 

Edited by Class of 75
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Just now, Class of 75 said:

The Labour Party has changed which is why I stopped voting for it. No myth at all. 

 

But it is. Labour of the 90s was centre-right. It was not the Labour of old. Blairite Labour, much like the Democratic Party under Clinton, were in no way advocates of workers' rights--and it's in Labour's name.

 

If you mean the Labour Party has ceased to be a rightist alternative to the pure cruelty that is Tory policy generally, and has returned to its working class, worker-focused roots, you can be granted that.

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1 minute ago, Justin Z said:

 

But it is. Labour of the 90s was centre-right. It was not the Labour of old. Blairite Labour, much like the Democratic Party under Clinton, were in no way advocates of workers' rights--and it's in Labour's name.

 

If you mean the Labour Party has ceased to be a rightist alternative to the pure cruelty that is Tory policy generally, and has returned to its working class, worker-focused roots, you can be granted that.

Sorry mate it even changed since then. The party I started voting for was working class but not as extreme left as this 

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So both main parties are promising lavish spending:

Tories are promising to cut taxes for the rich, borrow and spend

Labour are promising to raise taxes for the rich, borrow and spend

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

Sorry mate it even changed since then. The party I started voting for was working class but not as extreme left as this 

 

Nah mate

 

image.png.1043bdc24304827c1ddecd4c2b1fa783.png

 

From here

 

You may have changed. Thanks to decades of corporatist bias in the media your Overton Window may have changed. Labour is, at best, right back where it started.

 

 

Edited by Justin Z
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1 minute ago, Class of 75 said:

The Labour Party has changed which is why I stopped voting for it. No myth at all. He is not Labour anymore he is an independent 

 

Rubbish.    The 'extreme left' tag is a wholly bogus trope designed to frighten the gullible into the belief of a repeat of historical Labour government troubles.     There's nothing hard left about Labour Party policies.     Indeed there's little practical difference between the big ticket funding promises of the two parties.     

 

The gullible are spoon fed total bollocks about Labour spending pledges being ruinous,   etc,    while at the same time the same sort of spending is proposed by the Tories.

 

The difference is that Labour are up front about reasonable taxation and will deliver what they promise.    The Tories will park most of their spending pledges and continue an unfair spectrum of tax.

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37 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

The Labour Party has changed which is why I stopped voting for it. No myth at all. He is not Labour anymore he is an independent 

Who works for the Tory Government in Israel. No agenda, no, none at all.

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dobmisterdobster
13 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Who works for the Tory Government in Israel. No agenda, no, none at all.

What is everyone's obsession with Israel?

Enough is enough!

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Nick Conrad has been selected by the Tories to stand as their candidate for Broadland in Norfolk.

 

Not sure if he'll get many Women voting for him, because in 2014 during a live debate about a high-profile rape case, Nick Conrad said that women should "keep their knickers on".  

Presumably he was meaning that keeping their knickers on would prevent them from being raped.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-50322512

 

Who the feck selects these people?  More to the point, surely they would know that there would be a shit-storm following their decision.

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55 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Nah mate

 

image.png.1043bdc24304827c1ddecd4c2b1fa783.png

 

From here

 

You may have changed. Thanks to decades of corporatist bias in the media your Overton Window may have changed. Labour is, at best, right back where it started.

 

 

No it is not. The Labour Party of say the post war years is completely the Polar opposite to the current incarnation. If you can't see that then I am afraid you don't understand politics 

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1 hour ago, Class of 75 said:

To be fair I think he is old Labour. He for me represents what the party used to stand for before its lurch to the extreme left under Corbyn. 


Genuine question


Just out of interest whaddya think, traditional or extreme for example

- Take North Sea Oil under public ownership
- Referendum on EU membership
- Develop public transport to make us less dependent on the car

- Introduce strict price controls on key services and commodities
- Land required for housing development will be taken into public ownership
- introduce an annual Wealth Tax on the rich
- A new tax on major transfers of personal wealth
- Heavily tax speculation in property - including a new tax on property companies
-Take over profitable sections or individual firms in those industries where a public holding is essential to enable the Government to control prices, stimulate investment, encourage exports, create employment, protect workers and consumers

Actually all just lifted from the Harold Wilson 1974 Manifesto
http://www.labour-party.org.uk/manifestos/1974/feb/1974-feb-labour-manifesto.shtml

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55 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Rubbish.    The 'extreme left' tag is a wholly bogus trope designed to frighten the gullible into the belief of a repeat of historical Labour government troubles.     There's nothing hard left about Labour Party policies.     Indeed there's little practical difference between the big ticket funding promises of the two parties.     

 

The gullible are spoon fed total bollocks about Labour spending pledges being ruinous,   etc,    while at the same time the same sort of spending is proposed by the Tories.

 

The difference is that Labour are up front about reasonable taxation and will deliver what they promise.    The Tories will park most of their spending pledges and continue an unfair spectrum of tax.

No it is not rubbish. I am nowhere near gullable and understand exactly what the Labour Party now stand for. The Labour Party prior to Corbyn and indeed the latter Blair years was for the actual working class, patriotic and Euro sceptic. The current incarnation is the polar opposite. With regards to borrowing I just watch one of the Labour MPs have a car crash interview with Andrew Neil where she admitted that Labour was hoping to borrow £40 billion in excess to the current defecit of £50 billion to pay for state expansion. In order to nationalise certain areas they were intending to take to shares from share holders and give them Government bonds. This is not Socialism but Communism and hence why the Party has changed  in my opinion. 

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6 minutes ago, RobboM said:


Genuine question


Just out of interest whaddya think, traditional or extreme for example

- Take North Sea Oil under public ownership
- Referendum on EU membership
- Develop public transport to make us less dependent on the car

- Introduce strict price controls on key services and commodities
- Land required for housing development will be taken into public ownership
- introduce an annual Wealth Tax on the rich
- A new tax on major transfers of personal wealth
- Heavily tax speculation in property - including a new tax on property companies
-Take over profitable sections or individual firms in those industries where a public holding is essential to enable the Government to control prices, stimulate investment, encourage exports, create employment, protect workers and consumers

Actually all just lifted from the Harold Wilson 1974 Manifesto
http://www.labour-party.org.uk/manifestos/1974/feb/1974-feb-labour-manifesto.shtml

Yes they are traditional Labour policies and not extreme. However, Corbyn has gone further and is appealing to a different section of the electorate. Just my opinion. I am just observing what is going on. 

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Edinburgh SW Labour candidate deselected for retweeting an offensive tweet about Joanna Cherry.

 

You would think these ****ing idiots would learn instead of going "hur hur hur... sumfin funny aboot the SNP... hur hur hur... must make people see this... hur hur".

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5 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

No it is not rubbish. I am nowhere near gullable and understand exactly what the Labour Party now stand for. The Labour Party prior to Corbyn and indeed the latter Blair years was for the actual working class, patriotic and Euro sceptic. The current incarnation is the polar opposite. With regards to borrowing I just watch one of the Labour MPs have a car crash interview with Andrew Neil where she admitted that Labour was hoping to borrow £40 billion in excess to the current defecit of £50 billion to pay for state expansion. In order to nationalise certain areas they were intending to take to shares from share holders and give them Government bonds. This is not Socialism but Communism and hence why the Party has changed  in my opinion. 

 

The public sector and services have been degraded by such a level that they now require a radical investment.     It's certainly not communism.    It's rescuing our key services from horrendous decline.     Borrowing to invest and build a real economy.     If some grossly rewarded fat cats are disadvantaged along the way then it matters not a ****.

 

For the many.

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dobmisterdobster
7 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

Yes they are traditional Labour policies and not extreme. However, Corbyn has gone further and is appealing to a different section of the electorate. Just my opinion. I am just observing what is going on. 

Exactly. Corbyn is proposing a "lifetime gifts tax" which is designed to target the lower-middle class not the mega rich.

He wants a state monopoly on education where private schools could have their assets seized.

These are not ordinary Labour policies.

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Again 1974 Labour Manifesto

- All forms of tax-relief and charitable status for public schools will be withdrawn

 - phase out private practice from the hospital service
- We shall introduce an annual Wealth Tax on the rich

- bring in a new tax on major transfers of personal wealth

- heavily tax speculation in property - including a new tax on property companies;

- and seek to eliminate tax dodging across the whole field

You can agree or disagree with any of these (and of course debate how far or successfully they were implemented) but I can't see that Corbyn is that far out of step with what would have been considered mainstream Labour politics of the mid 70s

 

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dobmisterdobster
6 minutes ago, RobboM said:


Again 1974 Labour Manifesto

- All forms of tax-relief and charitable status for public schools will be withdrawn

 - phase out private practice from the hospital service
- We shall introduce an annual Wealth Tax on the rich

- bring in a new tax on major transfers of personal wealth

- heavily tax speculation in property - including a new tax on property companies;

- and seek to eliminate tax dodging across the whole field

You can agree or disagree with any of these (and of course debate how far or successfully they were implemented) but I can't see that Corbyn is that far out of step with what would have been considered mainstream Labour politics of the mid 70s

 

A lot has happened since the 70s.

Most notably the Berlin wall coming down.

 

Labour should focus on the future and not the past.

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1 hour ago, Class of 75 said:

The Labour Party has changed which is why I stopped voting for it. No myth at all. He is not Labour anymore he is an independent 

 

But what has changed?

 

Tony Blair changed Labour more than anyone in living memory. I think that brought in or encouraged loads of people including say Tom Watson. See also Luciana Berger, Chuka Ummuna, Gloria Del Piero etc etc etc. The big divide in Labour is between the Blair supporters and the left. 

 

Another thing Blair did was centralise power and so remove involvement of grass roots. Momentum and others are a healthy grass roots movement similar to what the SNP / Yes movement have done successfully. 

 

I have to say and remembering the last 40 plus years the current Labour position is pretty moderate overall. John McDonnell can say he's a Marxist all he likes but he's closer to Philp Hammond and Alistair Darling than any idea of an extremist. 

 

Let's see the actual manifestos and we can spot the 'extremist policies'. Labour is mostly saying we need to invest including green initiatives and give more opportunities to the less advantaged. 

Edited by Mikey1874
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maroonlegions
21 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

Exactly. Corbyn is proposing a "lifetime gifts tax" which is designed to target the lower-middle class not the mega rich.

He wants a state monopoly on education where private schools could have their assets seized.

These are not ordinary Labour policies.

Another plie of utter Tory pish..

 

Not one bit of concern from Tories that they are feilding  yet another rat as a Tory candidate. When will it start worrying  you that the Tory party is full of utter rats and selfservatives.  

 

 Are you even aware of what the Tories have done to public spending, schools ,NHS , Police and FIre services over the last ten years.Are you even aware of the fecking devastation, misery and yes DEATHS their austerity policies on welfare have caused. 

 

Get your head out of the sand.

 

Tax breaks for the rich is a Tory manifestation. 

 

 

 

  

 

75588269_3055640007795882_3272896857738575872_n.jpg

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1 minute ago, dobmisterdobster said:

A lot has happened since the 70s.

Most notably the Berlin wall coming down.

 

Labour should focus on the future and not the past.


Of course, but the debate in the past page or 2 has been about "traditional" Labour versus  extremist "Corbyn" labour and my contribution was on that argument.

Incidently, since you mention the Berlin Wall, traditional Labour included a commitment to " the mutual and concurrent phasing out of NATO and the Warsaw Pact. "

With no Warsaw Pact would Corbyn be traditional or extreme to commit to the ending of NATO?

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maroonlegions
4 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

A lot has happened since the 70s.

Most notably the Berlin wall coming down.

 

Labour should focus on the future and not the past.

No words.Seriously utter deluded.

 

And yet the Tories HAVE introduced VICTORIAN style welfare and public service cuts like no other past government has . I mean you would be very hard push to come up with a government as brutal and  merciless since the 1800s as this present bunch of utter rats.  

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dobmisterdobster
25 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

No words.Seriously utter deluded.

 

And yet the Tories HAVE introduced VICTORIAN style welfare and public service cuts like no other past government has . I mean you would be very hard push to come up with a government as brutal and  merciless since the 1800s as this present bunch of utter rats.  

The budgets for warfare and the NHS are higher than they have ever been.

 

Whether giving them more money has been effective is debatable.

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8 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

The budgets for warfare and the NHS are higher than they have ever been.

 

Whether giving them more money has been effective is debatable.


FFS what's Johnson planning now?

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