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General Election 2019


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1 hour ago, Ricardo Shillyshally said:

Like Brexit its an ideaolgy with no clear pathway to achieve it successfully.

 

I dread to think what mess the country would be in and for how long in the event of a yes vote

Probably about 48 hours once all the carry outs had been picked up .

Some pairty that will be.

 

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What was interesting for me regarding the Andrew Neil interview was the question of confirmation referendums.

 

I said it ages ago .

Bad move from the SNP .

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3 minutes ago, jake said:

What was interesting for me regarding the Andrew Neil interview was the question of confirmation referendums.

 

I said it ages ago .

Bad move from the SNP .

 

Yeah, its a bit of a shoogly peg to go on especially if independence does end up succeeding. If the rUK hold out long enough can another vote be had to try and change the outcome?

 

I think folk are keen to try and strawman it by saying you can't keep having votes till you get the result you want whilst completely neglecting how the vote was won. 

 

Brexit was achieved on a foundation of outright lies, which I think should mean grounds for another referendum, but also we need stronger laws to stop politicians making such outrageous lies. The brexit bus was utterly ridiculous and backtracked on pretty much the second the result came in. Its farcical. Switzerland just reran a vote because voters weren't given the correct information https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47879777 . If it can be done there, why not here? I think it only works though if politicians are held legally liable for claims. If you can't back it up with good faith research you shouldn't be able to promise it to voters. 

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manaliveits105
56 minutes ago, weehammy said:

In an independent Scotland there’ll be nothing on except repeats of Still Game, Weir’s Way and Taggart.

Not forgetting River Shitty 

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Former UK Ambassador to the EU rubbishes Boris Johnson's "Get Brexit Done" nonsense

"In a lecture at Glasgow university on Monday night, Rogers, who resigned following a Tory backlash over his reports that an EU trade deal might take a decade, said “the biggest crisis of Brexit to date” was “virtually inevitable” in late 2020."

The pressure to “get Brexit done” will mean that if returned as prime minister, Johnson will soon make “a lot of concessions” to secure his deal.

“Because we are under time pressure and known to be desperate to ‘escape vassalage’ by the end of 2020 … the EU side just sees a huge open goal opportunity and repeats its playbook from the article 50 process,” Rogers added.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/25/johnson-sowing-seeds-of-biggest-brexit-crisis-yet-warns-sir-ivan-rogers?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&#Echobox=1574719214

I guess the 2024 Tory slogan will be "Brexit, we're nearly there!", 2029 "Brexit .... One last push!"

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30 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Yeah, its a bit of a shoogly peg to go on especially if independence does end up succeeding. If the rUK hold out long enough can another vote be had to try and change the outcome?

 

I think folk are keen to try and strawman it by saying you can't keep having votes till you get the result you want whilst completely neglecting how the vote was won. 

 

Brexit was achieved on a foundation of outright lies, which I think should mean grounds for another referendum, but also we need stronger laws to stop politicians making such outrageous lies. The brexit bus was utterly ridiculous and backtracked on pretty much the second the result came in. Its farcical. Switzerland just reran a vote because voters weren't given the correct information https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47879777 . If it can be done there, why not here? I think it only works though if politicians are held legally liable for claims. If you can't back it up with good faith research you shouldn't be able to promise it to voters. 

The snp are setting precedent .

 

Also the points you make about false claims  on brexit could have been aimed at the SNP white paper had we voted for independence.

 

I just think the SNP got this wrong for future purposes.

 

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54 minutes ago, jake said:

What was interesting for me regarding the Andrew Neil interview was the question of confirmation referendums.

 

I said it ages ago .

Bad move from the SNP .

Maybe. I still think the UK would vote to leave EU again.

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The SNP reasoning is that there would have been no need for a confirmatory vote to the EU referendum had the campaign been conducted in honesty and more detail,    as well as the negotiations conducted in good faith.    The same reasoning suggests that another independence referendum would be conducted properly,   as well as the separation.  

 

It's a sound and reasonable sentiment.    But only that.     There are equally sound counter arguments and it's also unrealistic in practice.       

 

They would be better to concede a before and after,  two-stage referendum now.    

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3 hours ago, Trapper John McIntyre said:

'The NHS in Scotland is in danger from Nicola Sturgeon'.

THERE'S ONLY ONE ANDREW NEIL

He's an uncle Tom fruitcake. Like a lot on here. Absolute bams. 

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22 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

He's an uncle Tom fruitcake. Like a lot on here. Absolute bams. 

An uncle tom fruitcake ?

He asked pertinent questions.

Shouldn't the First Minister be taken to task on "legally binding " promises made to the electorate?

Never mind the mess of our new build hospitals.

 

Uncle Tom 🙄

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12 minutes ago, jake said:

An uncle tom fruitcake ?

He asked pertinent questions.

Shouldn't the First Minister be taken to task on "legally binding " promises made to the electorate?

Never mind the mess of our new build hospitals.

 

Uncle Tom 🙄

He's an uncle Tom. Couldn't care less what politicians get a kicking. He's subservient to London and the crony British State. The worst kind of Scot. 

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6 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

 

 

Do you understand the phrase 'Uncle Tom"?

 

Yes and he fits it well don't you think? What's your problem? OK massa? 

 

To me, he betrays his country at every level and never heard him say a good word about Scotland. Loathe him. 

Edited by Roxy Hearts
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1 minute ago, Zlatanable said:

 

 

 

Are you certain @Roxy Hearts , that you understand the significance of the phrase 'Uncle Tom' here, and your usage of it

I edited my previous entry for you. Don't try confuse the reasons for its use. I know what you're getting at so don't try to be smart. 

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1 minute ago, Zlatanable said:

 

 

 

 

I highlighted your change, I think 'To me, he betrays his country at every level and never heard him say a good word about Scotland. Loathe him. "

 

Do you, @Roxy Hearts understand the significance of what "Uncle Tom' means?

 

Yes, do you? 

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3 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Phew, I was doubting you knew and appreciated the usage of 'Uncle Tom"

 

Hi JambosKickback, @Roxy Hearts uses 'Uncle Tom", because they understand what it means.

 

Over to you you @Roxy Hearts, explain "Uncle Tom' and why you can use it. 

 

Well I totally understand why he used uncle Tom and, while I maybe wouldn't use it myself, it is perfectly reasonable to describe a self loathing Scot as such

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6 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Phew, I was doubting you knew and appreciated the usage of 'Uncle Tom"

 

Hi JambosKickback, @Roxy Hearts uses 'Uncle Tom", because they understand what it means.

 

Over to you you @Roxy Hearts, explain "Uncle Tom' and why you can use it. 

 

In the context of being Scottish, he culturally dilutes his allegiance to his country of birth. Willfully ignorant in his bias. He serves something else to gain favour. IMO. 

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17 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

 

 

You didn't say 'in the context of being Scottish' before @Roxy Hearts, you just called people "Uncle Toms"

 

What do you think I meant? That's what I was thinking. Not sure what you're getting at. Night, night. Have a good day when it arrives. 

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8 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

As the planet gets hotter it's a certainty that wars will be fought over drinking water, thankfully Scotland would have a deterent to deter anybody from doing so, and I don't mean Trident.

 

Aussie and a few of his mates with painted braveheart style faces, and mooning to the invaders, hell that's a sight which would surely strike fear into even the most determined of invaders.  🤣

 

We certainly won't be relying on you and yer mates. Shitebags to the core!

 

Quite surprised, you've never be run over. You know how people like to park on double yellow lines.

Edited by ri Alban
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Brighton Jambo
Just now, Brian Dundas said:

You aren't getting it because it is not a political standpoint, it is a moral and ethical one.

No that’s not right, to express a view on abhorring nuclear weapons is a moral and ethical standpoint but  to explicitly say that post the upcoming general election she will only deal with labour if they agree to scrap Trident is unequivocally a political one.

 

 

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Last night just goes to show that when she cant use her default position of blaming the Tories and Westminster for everything she has very little to offer.  She simply wants independence at all costs and then hopes to sort it out from there. 

 

She's up against some of the most hopeless UK party leaders in living memory.  If she can't convince the Scottish people in this election then she never will. 

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Morgan has been blundering her way through interviews her whole career. Frightening how this level of incompetence can be accepted. An extraordinary arsehole.

In other news, the Chief Rabbi of GB has, again, been given a platform to peddle straight lies. The only comfort about this is, if Labour weren’t in a realistic position to win the Election, he wouldn’t be getting this chance to smear a whole party, because that’s what he’s doing, at the behest of his paymasters. Don’t kid yourself otherwise ! Revolting !

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Brighton Jambo

I thought she handled the Independence questions well and seemed convincing of currency which although questionable is a key issue.

 

the NHS section however was brutal for her and she had no real answers.

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1 hour ago, Boab said:

Morgan has been blundering her way through interviews her whole career. Frightening how this level of incompetence can be accepted. An extraordinary arsehole.

In other news, the Chief Rabbi of GB has, again, been given a platform to peddle straight lies. The only comfort about this is, if Labour weren’t in a realistic position to win the Election, he wouldn’t be getting this chance to smear a whole party, because that’s what he’s doing, at the behest of his paymasters. Don’t kid yourself otherwise ! Revolting !

bit of an anti-Semitic trope that one!

He has concerns and is free to voice them.

Corbyn has been in thrall to some hard line Islamists for quite some time, it is not really a surprise that Jewish voters are worried about him.

I would be too!

Corbyn goes, and the labour party can get rid of the toxicity he brings- its |NOT his economic policy etc that are the issue- its his associations and friends.

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Just now, doctor jambo said:

bit of an anti-Semitic trope that one!

He has concerns and is free to voice them.

Corbyn has been in thrall to some hard line Islamists for quite some time, it is not really a surprise that Jewish voters are worried about him.

I would be too!

Corbyn goes, and the labour party can get rid of the toxicity he brings- its |NOT his economic policy etc that are the issue- its his associations and friends.


Not at all. Only anti-Semitic if you believe the spin !

The Rabbi is a homophobe. He has a nerve attempting to smear anyone else. As for Jewish voters being worried, many have spoken against the Rabbi’s views and, quite rightly, are more worried about the far right who are nowhere near Corbyn. I think you and I know exactly where they are hiding.

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15 hours ago, Class of 75 said:

Just for those that had a scoff at me. Sturgeon in interview with Andrew Neil has admitted several times that she leads a minority government. So I was right. 

 

giphy.gif

 

 

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1 hour ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I thought she handled the Independence questions well and seemed convincing of currency which although questionable is a key issue.

 

the NHS section however was brutal for her and she had no real answers.

After watching that I'd be inclined to think that even a staunch Indy supporter would be happy for a confirmatory referendum so the facts are all on the table.

She answered absolutely nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Boab said:


Not at all. Only anti-Semitic if you believe the spin !

The Rabbi is a homophobe. He has a nerve attempting to smear anyone else. As for Jewish voters being worried, many have spoken against the Rabbi’s views and, quite rightly, are more worried about the far right who are nowhere near Corbyn. I think you and I know exactly where they are hiding.

without the predictable hyperbole this will induce in certain posters- the far right are nowhere near power, not even close.

Corbyn is.

If I were Jewish and in the UK and there was a party led by someone who had associations with hamas, Hezbollah etc then I would be apprehensive

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Just now, doctor jambo said:

without the predictable hyperbole this will induce in certain posters- the far right are nowhere near power, not even close.

Corbyn is.

If I were Jewish and in the UK and there was a party led by someone who had associations with hamas, Hezbollah etc then I would be apprehensive

 

The thing is, there is institutional anti-semitism and institutional racism generally, everywhere in the UK's structures of power. To find it in Labour too (albeit to no greater or lesser extent than the general rule) is hardly surprising. People's selective choosing when to care about it though, and happily go on ignoring it or flat out denying its existence everywhere else it occurs, is telling.

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Just now, doctor jambo said:

without the predictable hyperbole this will induce in certain posters- the far right are nowhere near power, not even close.

Corbyn is.

If I were Jewish and in the UK and there was a party led by someone who had associations with hamas, Hezbollah etc then I would be apprehensive

 Depends on your definition of far right. Farage is an odious, poisonous individual and the decision not to oppose the Tories by not standing in any of their seats tells me they are closer to influencing power than you think !

The DUP are the only reason the Tories survived last time. 
This is a smear, created by people who are terrified of a fairer society. Mainly financial.

 

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3 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

The thing is, there is institutional anti-semitism and institutional racism generally, everywhere in the UK's structures of power. To find it in Labour too (albeit to no greater or lesser extent than the general rule) is hardly surprising. People's selective choosing when to care about it though, and happily go on ignoring it or flat out denying its existence everywhere else it occurs, is telling.

People all over the world are generally mistrusting of "different"- be it religion, race or whatever. It is a part of being human- its tribal and pretty hard wired.

"its Islam taking over the UK"

"its the EU that is the problem"

"its Westminster that is holding us back"

"its the Jews running the banks"

"its British Imperialism that is still causing poverty in Africa"

"what did the Romans ever do for us"

 

Corbyn is too far from the middle ground to be a "modern British PM"

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Brighton Jambo
14 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

After watching that I'd be inclined to think that even a staunch Indy supporter would be happy for a confirmatory referendum so the facts are all on the table.

She answered absolutely nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because of Brexit the Scottish Governments position on a number of key elements of the independence proposal have not been subjected to suitable scrutiny. That will change and the holes in the plan will be pulled wide open as they were last night.  The answer on the border arrangements with rUk was laughable.  

 

Equally their performance in devolved issues will be subject to far greater scrutiny and that will prove challenging for them as they can’t blame Westminister for failings in for example the NHS.  

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10 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

People all over the world are generally mistrusting of "different"- be it religion, race or whatever. It is a part of being human- its tribal and pretty hard wired.

"its Islam taking over the UK"

"its the EU that is the problem"

"its Westminster that is holding us back"

"its the Jews running the banks"

"its British Imperialism that is still causing poverty in Africa"

"what did the Romans ever do for us"

 

None of these are an example of institutional racism or its effects on people's lives, or how people selectively ignore/deny its existence, so I don't understand the point you're making.

 

Also my initial reply to you wasn't directed at you, just to clarify, it was just my view of the state of things as regards this.

 

Edited by Justin Z
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Brighton Jambo
15 minutes ago, Boab said:

 Depends on your definition of far right. Farage is an odious, poisonous individual and the decision not to oppose the Tories by not standing in any of their seats tells me they are closer to influencing power than you think !

The DUP are the only reason the Tories survived last time. 
This is a smear, created by people who are terrified of a fairer society. Mainly financial.

 

If it is a smear why have so many of his own party resigned explicitly citing his failure to address anti semitism as the reason?  Are all these long standing labour MP’s and party members terrified of a fair society too?  Seems totally ridiculous that they would be?

 

and what about the Mural?  Did some sneaky Tory hack his Facebook account and send that message.  And before you get on your moral high horse go and actually have a good look at the Mural, it’s disgusting in its portrayal of Jewish stereotypes.  And JC went out of his way to send a supportive message to its creator.  

 

He is unequivocally anti-Semitic and tolerates others to be so in the party.  Way way way too much smoke without there to be fire.  Equally BJ is a racist and is no better, both aren’t fit to lead our country.

 

but let’s stop kidding on this is a smear that’s just makes you look complicit in prolonging this horrendous man.  

Edited by Brighton Jambo
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2 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

If it is a smear why have so many of his own party resigned explicitly citing his failure to address anti semitism as the reason?  Are all these long standing labour MP’s and party members terrified of a far society too?  Seems totally ridiculous that they would be?

 

and what about the Mural?  Did some sneaky Tory hack his Facebook account and send that message.  And before you get on your moral high horse go and actually have a good look at the Mural, it’s disgusting in its portrayal of Jewish stereotypes.  And JC went out of his way to send a supportive message to its creator.  

 

He is unequivocally anti-Semitic and tolerates others to be so in the party.  Way way way too much smoke without their to be fire.  Equally BJ is a racist and is no better, both aren’t fit to lead our country.

 

but let’s stop kidding on this is a smear that’s just makes you look complicit in prolonging this horrendous man.  

 

The most ridiculous accusation of antisemitism I ever saw against Corbyn was when he said "Epshtein" instead of "Epstein" and people went crazy. Made me think of Gene Wilder.

 

This is up there though, so congrats.

 

Edited by Justin Z
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Brighton Jambo
5 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

The most ridiculous accusation of antisemitism I ever saw against Corbyn was when he said "Epshtein" instead of "Epstein" and people went crazy. Made me think of Gene Wilder.

 

This is up there though, so congrats.

 

Did that sound funny in your head?  Yeah that Mural was a good laugh wasn’t it, hence his grovelling apology when it all came to light.  

 

Or were you referring to all his labour colleagues who have quit citing that as the reason, but you know better than them right? 

 

 

Edited by Brighton Jambo
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Just now, Brighton Jambo said:

Did that sound funny in your head?  Yeah that Mural was a good laugh wasn’t it, hence his grovelling apology when it all came to light.  Pretty disgusting you find that amusing.  

 

Grovelling apology :lol:

 

I do find your self-righteousness amusing, yes. I haven't commented on the mural at all though, nor had I looked at it at the time you posted that. You really ought not to put words into people's mouths in such a way--though assigning motives to people you don't like seems to be your MO, as that is exactly what you've done to Corbyn.

 

And that was exactly my point. It's 4:30am in Arizona and I'm jet lagged. If Corbyn's guilty of anything, he's guilty of the same thing as me--not doing his homework before making a comment. I did it on purpose, writing that post still having not seen the mural, and got the exact rise out of you I expected to. And then once I did see it, and saw Corbyn's apology?

 

"I sincerely regret that I did not look more closely at the image I was commenting on, the contents of which are deeply disturbing and anti-Semitic."

 

Grovelling :rofl: But go on clutching your pearls and tilting at windmills, mate.

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14 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

None of these are an example of institutional racism or its effects on people's lives, or how people selectively ignore/deny its existence, so I don't understand the point you're making.

 

Also my initial reply to you wasn't directed at you, just to clarify, it was just my view of the state of things as regards this.

 

This "institutional racism" gets banded about an awful lot.

With specific regard to Judaism, I would hazard a guess that there is a disproportionate number of Jewish MPs relative to their population %

80 MP's are Jewish ( according to google) out of 650=  12.3 %

UK Jews by population is 0.5%

some feckin racism right there!

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1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

bit of an anti-Semitic trope that one!

He has concerns and is free to voice them.

Corbyn has been in thrall to some hard line Islamists for quite some time, it is not really a surprise that Jewish voters are worried about him.

I would be too!

Corbyn goes, and the labour party can get rid of the toxicity he brings- its |NOT his economic policy etc that are the issue- its his associations and friends.

 

The curious thing is that specific charge- over Corbyn being 'sympathetic' to Hamas and others who want to destroy Israel is never actually stated. I understand that point and also the one about the hatred of Israel by many Labour supporters because they are sympathetic to Palestine with the siege of Gaza etc.

 

But that is not said. It's all about that Corbyn is facilitating anti semitism with no actual evidence. Then you get John Bercow, a Jew saying having known Corbyn for 22 years that he is definitely NOT anti semitic nor are any Labour MPs. 

 

Its bizarre. Of course Labour needed to improve its disciplinary procedures. But the critics including Luciana Berger and the Countdown woman leave themselves open that they just don't want a left wing government. I do think Jews are more at risk from the false accusations. 

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Just now, Brighton Jambo said:

If it is a smear why have so many of his own party resigned explicitly citing his failure to address anti semitism as the reason?  Are all these long standing labour MP’s and party members terrified of a fair society too?  Seems totally ridiculous that they would be?

 

and what about the Mural?  Did some sneaky Tory hack his Facebook account and send that message.  And before you get on your moral high horse go and actually have a good look at the Mural, it’s disgusting in its portrayal of Jewish stereotypes.  And JC went out of his way to send a supportive message to its creator.  

 

He is unequivocally anti-Semitic and tolerates others to be so in the party.  Way way way too much smoke without there to be fire.  Equally BJ is a racist and is no better, both aren’t fit to lead our country.

 

but let’s stop kidding on this is a smear that’s just makes you look complicit in prolonging this horrendous man.  


Nine MPs resigned,not solely because of anti-semitism but because they didn’t like the direction he was taking the party. Fair enough, better off without them.

350 members either resigned or were thrown out because of their views, again, quite rightly. 
To say he’s tolerating anti-semitism is a lie.

Could he have handled things like that awful mural thing better ? Of course, but as another poster, above, rightly says, it is institutional and should be exposed across the board. It won’t be of course because this is a smear designed to throw the electorate off the things that really matter. A smear directed intentionally towards one party. It’s not a new thing either.

No moral high ground here, mate, just a deep mistrust of people, including the media, who don’t want Corbyn in power.

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Labour could solve this.

 

Just abandon any concern over Palestine. And go whole heartedly in support of Israel. 

 

What I would advise them to do. 

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Labour has aknowledged a minor problem with antisemitism in the party.

Procedures, rules and standards have been put in place.

 

The Conservative party has a huge problem with antisemitism, islamophobia, homophobia, misogyny, racism, and anti-trans views and nothing at all has been done.

 

 

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Just now, Mikey1874 said:

Labour could solve this.

 

Just abandon any concern over Palestine. And go whole heartedly in support of Israel. 

 

What I would advise them to do. 

 

With Netanyahu finally potentially having his crimes catch up to him, this isn't just a politically expedient course of action, either. There's nothing wrong with speaking out against a government that commits human rights atrocities, and then if it shows signs of finally, finally dealing with that, throwing your support behind it is absolutely a valid thing to do.

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Brighton Jambo
4 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Grovelling apology :lol:

 

I do find your self-righteousness amusing, yes. I haven't commented on the mural at all though, nor had I looked at it at the time you posted that. You really ought not to put words into people's mouths in such a way--though assigning motives to people you don't like seems to be your MO, as that is exactly what you've done to Corbyn.

 

And that was exactly my point. It's 4:30am in Arizona and I'm jet lagged. If Corbyn's guilty of anything, he's guilty of the same thing as me--not doing his homework before making a comment. I did it on purpose, writing that post still having not seen the mural, and got the exact rise out of you I expected to. And then once I did see it, and saw Corbyn's apology?

 

"I sincerely regret that I did not look more closely at the image I was commenting on, the contents of which are deeply disturbing and anti-Semitic."

 

Grovelling :rofl: But go on clutching your pearls and tilting at windmills, mate.

The quote I saw was and I quote exactly “sincerely sorry for the pain” caused and conceded there were “pockets” of anti semitism within the party.

 

fine I agree with your point the word grovelling might be a touch hyperbolic but not by that much.  

 

I dont blame you at all for not looking first you aren’t (I assume) trying to be leader of this country.  At best he has been incredible naive given all the other accusations of anti semitism flying around to make a mistake like this and at worst he has been caught out.  

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Just now, Cade said:

Labour has aknowledged a minor problem with antisemitism in the party.

Procedures, rules and standards have been put in place.

 

The Conservative party has a huge problem with antisemitism, islamophobia, homophobia, misogyny, racism, and anti-trans views and nothing at all has been done.

 

 


Of course not.

People need to ask why.

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Francis Albert

Sorry if already mentioned and answered but I see Nicola also wants immigration policy to be devolved to Scotland as one of the conditions of a deal with Corbyn (or whoever). How would that  work?

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1 minute ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I dont blame you at all for not looking first you aren’t (I assume) trying to be leader of this country.  At best he has been incredible naive given all the other accusations of anti semitism flying around to make a mistake like this and at worst he has been caught out.  

 

YES--thank you. Personally, even as I see eye-to-eye on him economically on a fair bit of stuff, I think he's a terrible politician and he would make a terrible leader. His complete lack of nous and savvy is a large part of why. Not because he is something he isn't (antisemitic).

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dobmisterdobster
5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Labour could solve this.

 

Just abandon any concern over Palestine. And go whole heartedly in support of Israel. 

 

What I would advise them to do. 

This. It would all go away overnight.

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