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Levein’s time is up...


Heartsofgold

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5 minutes ago, sadj said:

No but Cathro beat Rangers 4-1 in an unconvincing performance but it was indicative of from a year before Robbie left to now. Its all well and good saying beat Celtic 4-0 but that was a football oddity , bizarrely the game at Celtic park in November and cup semi the week before aside played Celtic 4times w1 (1-0) l3 (all 2-1 and one with 10men for most of the game) Drives me nuts we can compete with them like that yet capitulate versus Rangers and lack intensity v everyone else except Hibs and Aberdeen.

 

Its that intensity , tempo and desire that needs sorted and we could go places. 

Fully agree.  Apart from shaping the squad I’d have thought we’d have been working at our mentality and trying ingrain a bog standard level of performance that becomes 2nd nature. 

 

However, alot of that comes from being more positive in set-up and mental preparation going into , I’d say, away games. 

 

Its only natural to be up for bigger occasions but the gap between our levels in those games and ones of a lesser stature can be alarming.  

 

Our better sides over the years knew matches v supposed weaker teams could be as hard as playing Hibs etc... because there was more onus on us to go and win, therefore we had a strong attitude approaching those matches. 

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Enzo Chiefo
1 hour ago, sadj said:

No but Cathro beat Rangers 4-1 in an unconvincing performance but it was indicative of from a year before Robbie left to now. Its all well and good saying beat Celtic 4-0 but that was a football oddity , bizarrely the game at Celtic park in November and cup semi the week before aside played Celtic 4times w1 (1-0) l3 (all 2-1 and one with 10men for most of the game) Drives me nuts we can compete with them like that yet capitulate versus Rangers and lack intensity v everyone else except Hibs and Aberdeen.

 

Its that intensity , tempo and desire that needs sorted and we could go places. 

 

 

Cathro was a very different person to Levein though in stature and personality. The Rangers performances were abysmal. The club is in a steadier place squad wise now also and that has to bode well but as i said above those elements need kicked into the players for every game or it’ll be a limp season. 

One of Levein's biggest problems is that he is far too cautious and that must affect the confidence of the players. He doesn't seem to believe in the players at times. He overthinks games, worries too much about away games, pitches etc. His comments about Ryan Edwards probably only playing in away games are nonsensical.  When we were playing at Murrayfield,  he was loathe to play Milinkovic, he felt he would be better when we "get back to Tynecastle". People talk about the "press" as if it is some magical new tactic. It's simply playing a high tempo game with quick incisive passing throughout the team, closing down the space and giving players the freedom to make off the ball runs. Slowing the game down and passing for the sake of passing is our biggest problem just now and when we start to face SPL opposition,  it will render our attacking players less effective than they should be.

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Randy Marsh
11 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

One of Levein's biggest problems is that he is far too cautious and that must affect the confidence of the players. He doesn't seem to believe in the players at times. He overthinks games, worries too much about away games, pitches etc. His comments about Ryan Edwards probably only playing in away games are nonsensical.  When we were playing at Murrayfield,  he was loathe to play Milinkovic, he felt he would be better when we "get back to Tynecastle". People talk about the "press" as if it is some magical new tactic. It's simply playing a high tempo game with quick incisive passing throughout the team, closing down the space and giving players the freedom to make off the ball runs. Slowing the game down and passing for the sake of passing is our biggest problem just now and when we start to face SPL opposition,  it will render our attacking players less effective than they should be.

Good post.  And completely agree with you about Milinkovic.  Remember Levein starting Ross Callachan instead of him in our Scottish Cup Quarter final against Motherwell.  That basically cost us a semi final spot and the potential £1m that went with it.

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Alex Kintner
17 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

One of Levein's biggest problems is that he is far too cautious and that must affect the confidence of the players. He doesn't seem to believe in the players at times. He overthinks games, worries too much about away games, pitches etc. His comments about Ryan Edwards probably only playing in away games are nonsensical.  When we were playing at Murrayfield,  he was loathe to play Milinkovic, he felt he would be better when we "get back to Tynecastle". People talk about the "press" as if it is some magical new tactic. It’s simply playing a high tempo game with quick incisive passing throughout the team, closing down the space and giving players the freedom to make off the ball runs. Slowing the game down and passing for the sake of passing is our biggest problem just now and when we start to face SPL opposition,  it will render our attacking players less effective than they should be.

 

Hopefully this “simple” concept will take shape once Levein has had a chance to properly compare the market for a midfielder.

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davemclaren
Just now, Randy Marsh said:

Good post.  And completely agree with you about Milinkovic.  Remember Levein starting Ross Callachan instead of him in our Scottish Cup Quarter final against Motherwell.  That basically cost us a semi final spot and the potential £1m that went with it.

Maybe. 😎

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Enzo Chiefo
1 minute ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Hopefully this “simple” concept will take shape once Levein has had a chance to properly compare the market for a midfielder.

Let's hope so. 

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Alex Kintner
3 minutes ago, Randy Marsh said:

Good post.  And completely agree with you about Milinkovic.  Remember Levein starting Ross Callachan instead of him in our Scottish Cup Quarter final against Motherwell.  That basically cost us a semi final spot and the potential £1m that went with it.

 

Were you equally pissed off when he started Callachan ahead of Milinkovic in the previous round and we beat St Johnstone 3-0? 🤷🏻‍♂️

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Jambof3tornado
5 hours ago, OmiyaHearts said:

I don't think anyone does but I can still understand people willing to give him the start of this season.

 

The problem we have is if the first ten games are unsatisfactory and we're under-performing, it wont matter, as Budge won't sack him. He's here for the season, no matter how bad we end up.

If we are bottom 6 by xmas Levein will walk. He wont wait for budge to swing the axe.

 

 

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Randy Marsh
38 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Were you equally pissed off when he started Callachan ahead of Milinkovic in the previous round and we beat St Johnstone 3-0? 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Well no mate.  We won that match.:thumbsup:

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
1 hour ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Were you equally pissed off when he started Callachan ahead of Milinkovic in the previous round and we beat St Johnstone 3-0? 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Milinkovic has become something of a myth - I never miss the chance to remember the EEN calling him a cult hero :rofl:

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1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

One of Levein's biggest problems is that he is far too cautious and that must affect the confidence of the players. He doesn't seem to believe in the players at times.

 

 

He overthinks games, worries too much about away games, pitches etc. His comments about Ryan Edwards probably only playing in away games are nonsensical.  When we were playing at Murrayfield,  he was loathe to play Milinkovic, he felt he would be better when we "get back to Tynecastle". People talk about the "press" as if it is some magical new tactic. It's simply playing a high tempo game with quick incisive passing throughout the team, closing down the space and giving players the freedom to make off the ball runs.

 

Slowing the game down and passing for the sake of passing is our biggest problem just now and when we start to face SPL opposition,  it will render our attacking players less effective than they should be.

Enzo you know I don’t mind our back and forths however I suggest you read up on “press” the basis of a press is just high pressure on a player and try and force a mistake but it takes all 10 outfield players to be on the ball for it to work. One error and you are exposed.

 

Its nothing to do with incisive passing and making runs. 

 

Not sure is always too cautious , he does overthink and he must as you say lack confidence in either the players or coaching at times to revert back to negating a team first rather than playing our way.

 

said loads on here we need higher tempo passing. We have seen some good movement up front we need to utilise that. Charlie Adam would of been a stand out with runs getting made like Walker , Smith , Washington , Clare and Mulraney have made. Haring may enjoy it too when he is back Berra 💯 and even Souttar shelling long balls wastes this. Its all fine playing presses against Celtic or Rangers but whoever it was suggested using v Stenny is off their nut. Its a tactic they’d use against us. However their tactic was lose the ball collapse into the box and we didn’t do enough to pull them out and create lots of good chances and when we did we wasted them. 

 

Signs are not as bad as people are making out even if no one is convinced we will do well we have at least got some creativity available now its wether we get off our asses and use it that will dictate a lot this season. 

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The Real Maroonblood
6 hours ago, 1874Gorgie1874 said:

Do some people actually still think levein is the right man for the job? 

Unfortunately yes.

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9 hours ago, To Be Frank said:

Could he have been sacked? Yes

Should he have been sacked? Maybe

Was he sacked? No

 

Therefore we move on. It’s a new season and the first few games have shown a mix of positives and negatives. Far too early to write off this season as “same again.”

 

We’re trying to play in a more attacking way and this is clear to see with the formations, selections and shots counts. Our finishing and tempo needs to improve though from what people have said and we need that strong replacement for Haring in midfield.

 

I’m still buzzing about the new season, especially with my daughter arriving early and meaning I can now make our first home game 😊👍🏻

🍾 🎆:thumb:

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Enzo Chiefo
1 hour ago, sadj said:

Enzo you know I don’t mind our back and forths however I suggest you read up on “press” the basis of a press is just high pressure on a player and try and force a mistake but it takes all 10 outfield players to be on the ball for it to work. One error and you are exposed.

 

Its nothing to do with incisive passing and making runs. 

 

Not sure is always too cautious , he does overthink and he must as you say lack confidence in either the players or coaching at times to revert back to negating a team first rather than playing our way.

 

said loads on here we need higher tempo passing. We have seen some good movement up front we need to utilise that. Charlie Adam would of been a stand out with runs getting made like Walker , Smith , Washington , Clare and Mulraney have made. Haring may enjoy it too when he is back Berra 💯 and even Souttar shelling long balls wastes this. Its all fine playing presses against Celtic or Rangers but whoever it was suggested using v Stenny is off their nut. Its a tactic they’d use against us. However their tactic was lose the ball collapse into the box and we didn’t do enough to pull them out and create lots of good chances and when we did we wasted them. 

 

Signs are not as bad as people are making out even if no one is convinced we will do well we have at least got some creativity available now its wether we get off our asses and use it that will dictate a lot this season. 

Likewise Sadj, I enjoy our "ping pong" discussions. You are always respectful of other opinions even if you disagree.  

 

However, I disagree about your ideas on the press. There is nothing to "read up on", it's not a new concept, it's simply about individual players, as you say, closing down their opponent and forcing a mistake. But you need quick, incisive passing, off the ball movement and a high tempo game to take advantage of any mistakes. No point forcing a mistake or having a set piece and the ball ending up, as so often happens,  back with the centre half. 

Even when I played with work colleagues or in the Maybury League back in the day, everyone played that way. It's not a new discovery by modern coaches. Picking up runners when defending a corner or an attack was a basic skill to most players at any level.nowadays it seems to require coaching. I watch the EPL and, at that level, it's incredible to see top class defenders ball watching or failing to track runners.

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17 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Likewise Sadj, I enjoy our "ping pong" discussions. You are always respectful of other opinions even if you disagree.  

 

However, I disagree about your ideas on the press. There is nothing to "read up on", it's not a new concept, it's simply about individual players, as you say, closing down their opponent and forcing a mistake. But you need quick, incisive passing, off the ball movement and a high tempo game to take advantage of any mistakes. No point forcing a mistake or having a set piece and the ball ending up, as so often happens,  back with the centre half. 

Even when I played with work colleagues or in the Maybury League back in the day, everyone played that way. It's not a new discovery by modern coaches. Picking up runners when defending a corner or an attack was a basic skill to most players at any level.nowadays it seems to require coaching. I watch the EPL and, at that level, it's incredible to see top class defenders ball watching or failing to track runners.

 

I’m separating out the attack and defence and looking at press in a purely pressure the opponent in to a mistake. No matter what way you play you need to have good tempo and incisive passing to cut teams open or you’ll limit chances to score and its not good to watch. 

 

I think a lot of the reason behind all these things having to be coached now is that its a more tactical game and FIFA rule changes have caused that to a degree , so many teams are at similar levels in leagues that a lot of managers are very specific about roles and jobs in the team and it can limit players natural flare.

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Enzo Chiefo
1 hour ago, sadj said:

 

I’m separating out the attack and defence and looking at press in a purely pressure the opponent in to a mistake. No matter what way you play you need to have good tempo and incisive passing to cut teams open or you’ll limit chances to score and its not good to watch. 

 

I think a lot of the reason behind all these things having to be coached now is that its a more tactical game and FIFA rule changes have caused that to a degree , so many teams are at similar levels in leagues that a lot of managers are very specific about roles and jobs in the team and it can limit players natural flare.

Yes, I agree with that. Some good points in there. It is frustrating to see flair players, nowadays, being constrained by systems.  I think the fact we face the same teams at least 4 times a season also adds an element of "cancelling each other out".

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3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yes, I agree with that. Some good points in there. It is frustrating to see flair players, nowadays, being constrained by systems.  I think the fact we face the same teams at least 4 times a season also adds an element of "cancelling each other out".

Definitely ,  however the duopoly and the complicit SFA will never stop that. The “we can only sell tv rights if Rangers play Celtic 4times for Sky” gets trotted out. Scottish football has grown since 2012 a lot was reset then , i think it has done well and that was without Rangers and Celtic being a thing. 

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9 hours ago, Henroddy said:

exactly. we won 4-0. Great. But if memory serves (im sure some will correct me) they gave us some terrible pumpings afterwards (4-5-6)

 

We won 4-0 by Levein going against his natural instinct to defend.

In the pre-match interview on TV he said we had so many injuries in defence he could not set the team up as he wanted so he said he was “going to have a go!”

The rest is history.

We all thought this success would be a new dawn of in their face attacking football - we were sadly mistaken!

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I am all for giving him another season I do feel optimistic that we will do better than last year as we have more up top but I am concerned at the lack of trying to sign 1 or 2 quality midfielders

If he could get in a Dylan or Bruno still player it would take us up a level for sure 

 

Can he not see this is urgently required or are we still going to play bypassing the midfielder 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by NB GIN
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AlphonseCapone

He's on record, several times saying he is trying to get in a midfielder. He's just said it's taking a little longer than expected. Maybe you aren't on the ball? 

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Just now, NB GIN said:

I am all for giving him another season I do feel optimistic that we will do better than last year as we have more up top but I am concerned at the lack of trying to sign 1 or 2 quality midfielders

Of he could get in a Dylan or Bruno still player it would take us up a level for sure 

 

Can he not see this is urgently required or are we still going to play bypassing the midfielder 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Either something has changed in the last week and I missed it, or you’ve missed the interviews where Levein has stated that he is trying to sign at least one quality midfielder.

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WheatfieldWarrior
3 minutes ago, NB GIN said:

I am all for giving him another season I do feel optimistic that we will do better than last year as we have more up top but I am concerned at the lack of trying to sign 1 or 2 quality midfielders

If he could get in a Dylan or Bruno still player it would take us up a level for sure 

 

Can he not see this is urgently required or are we still going to play bypassing the midfielder 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is an update on this every day in the Edinburgh Evening News.

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rudi must stay

Levein said he wants atleast 1 in his press conference. 

 

To me that means he wants 2, so nothing to worry about NB GIN

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been here before

Ooooohhhhh this will be todays Levein thread then.

 

I wonder how it will pan out.

 

 

 

 

 

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I'm no Leveins biggest fan as you'll know 

 

But i reckon the wait will be worth it. There is no other reason i can think off that its taking so long for a midfielder,  other than its a huge signing 

 

Levein is a lot of things but daft isn't one of them. He knows we are well short in the engine room. Reckon we'll see 2 or 3 incomings next week. Purely a hunch

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7 minutes ago, been here before said:

Ooooohhhhh this will be todays Levein thread then.

 

I wonder how it will pan out.

 

 

 

 

 

Undoubtedly just like all the other ones. 

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i wish jj was my dad
3 minutes ago, kimosavi said:

I'm no Leveins biggest fan as you'll know 

 

But i reckon the wait will be worth it. There is no other reason i can think off that its taking so long for a midfielder,  other than its a huge signing 

 

Levein is a lot of things but daft isn't one of them. He knows we are well short in the engine room. Reckon we'll see 2 or 3 incomings next week. Purely a hunch

Pretty much this. It could be that the hold up is for the same contract reason as SN. Either way I think we are holdung out for the right player rather than just filling a gap.

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gashauskis9

Jeez...

 

Levein can’t win.  He’s either taking too long or he’s rushing out and buying shite on the hoof.

 

I’d rather he took his time and brought in quality tbh.  As long as whoever it is is fit and has been playing regularly they could be signed next week and be good to go for Pittodrie.  He’ll want someone as good if not better than Haring and Djoum.

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gashauskis9
12 minutes ago, Flappy Hands said:

Bozanic 

What even is he? 

If he’s the answer then I’ve forgot the question.  If he lines up against Aberdeen my season optimism levels will plummet.

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been here before
29 minutes ago, Barack said:

Tune in tomorrow, for the next exciting development...

 

Nah itll be far sooner than that.

 

Im looking forward to getting home from the game to enjoy the following threads...

 

Win 1-0 Levein Oot we should have scored 5

 

Win 5-0 Levein Oot we should have scored 10

 

Draw- Levein Oot we should have won.

 

Lose- LEVEIN OOT MELTDOWN.

 

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gowestjambo

Levein's record of signing quality Midfielders is extremely poor. Nothing wrong in asking why this has not been addressed by now. Should have been a priority imo.

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58 minutes ago, Icon of Symmetry said:

 

Either something has changed in the last week and I missed it, or you’ve missed the interviews where Levein has stated that he is trying to sign at least one quality midfielder.

He said a defensive midfielder I think but for me it’s a Bruno aguair style player we need someone to control the game 

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14 minutes ago, gowestjambo said:

Levein's record of signing quality Midfielders is extremely poor. Nothing wrong in asking why this has not been addressed by now. Should have been a priority imo.

I’d take another Tommi Grondlund

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1 minute ago, NB GIN said:

He said a defensive midfielder I think but for me it’s a Bruno aguair style player we need someone to control the game 

 

Ah, sorry. I see now. If O’Hara is a target then I think it suggests he is after someone who can play both.

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It should have been ten
21 hours ago, 1874Gorgie1874 said:

Do some people actually still think levein is the right man for the job? 

 

Yes

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Maroon Sailor
17 hours ago, Jambof3tornado said:

If we are bottom 6 by xmas Levein will walk. He wont wait for budge to swing the axe.

 

 

 

She'll never swing the axe. It will all be done amicably and it will ultimately be Levein's decision. He's held the football cards from day one

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i wish jj was my dad
28 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

She'll never swing the axe. It will all be done amicably and it will ultimately be Levein's decision. He's held the football cards from day one

Or maybe we will see the fruits of his labour this season by putting in a decent challenge and or lift a trophy? 

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Maroon Sailor
1 minute ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Or maybe we will see the fruits of his labour this season by putting in a decent challenge and or lift a trophy? 

 

Maybe

 

Give me some odds on that and I might take you up on a bet

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
6 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Or maybe we will see the fruits of his labour this season by putting in a decent challenge and or lift a trophy? 

 

No

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chester copperpot

 

 

Levein is regarded as a bit of a joke within the confines of football (I work in football in case anyone else questions it)

 

I've held it together for months but can't hold it no more. Regardless of what happens today.

 

I dont care what we have done today tbh. If we ever want to move forward, we must do something else. Craig Levein is not and never will be!

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