Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Very interested in this situation but know very little about the details. We’re the convictions and sentences fair? Are Spain taking liberties or not? Any experts (not you, Lawson)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey J J Jr Shabadoo Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Not sure. But I'm in Mallorca, right now, and the TV channel is showing riots in Barcelona at half time in the Spain game. Personally, I side with Catalunya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 If you are a democrat with a small D, an anti-fascist, a non-bootlicker, someone who doesn't kneel to authority simply because it has power, the punishments are absolutely outrageous. This is a supposedly free, democratic country. Clearly, it is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, Justin Z said: If you are a democrat with a small D, an anti-fascist, a non-bootlicker, someone who doesn't kneel to authority simply because it has power, the punishments are absolutely outrageous. This is a supposedly free, democratic country. Clearly, it is not. That’s my feeling although I must confess, I don’t trying to force independence in the way that they did can go unpunished. There’s a difference between political dissent and law breaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Barack said: Mulder & Scully, Road Rage & Dead From The Waist Down were excellent. The whole album actually. Always thought of you as a boring president but rib ticklers like that could change my mind. Edited October 15, 2019 by Dusk_Till_Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Just now, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: That’s my feeling although I must confess, I don’t trying to force independence in the way that they did can go unpunished. There’s a difference between political dissent and law breaking. I agree with you in principle. Those penalties ought to be civil in nature at the absolute most. But there are fascists on Spain's kangaroo supreme court and they have extracted several pounds of flesh instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 14 minutes ago, Barack said: Mulder & Scully, Road Rage & Dead From The Waist Down were excellent. The whole album actually. To be fair, the album was their Greatest Hits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Both are at fault. Spain is acting like a complete prick but the Catalans are only harming their own cause. Nobody in this sorry saga is covering themselves in any kind of glory. It's all only flared up again because there is a looming General Election in Spain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 One way of deciding if a punishment fits the crime is the question - "What physical/mental harm did the perpetrators cause to others?". In my eyes, given that, the punishments are very harsh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) Spain overreacted from the day of the Referendum. Its matching the likes of Egypt, Iran and Saudi Arabia. I do have a problem with independence campaigners where its 50/50 like in Catalonia as it is in Scotland acting like support for independence is 90%. Edited October 15, 2019 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I P Knightley Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 I've got Cerys Matthews' phone number in my phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I P Knightley Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 49 minutes ago, Barack said: Mulder & Scully, Road Rage & Dead From The Waist Down were excellent. The whole album actually. Damn! Lesson to self - never assume you're first to the punch on JKB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Nation states generally take attempts to break them up pretty seriously especially if they are or can be viewed as illegal. See the American Civil War as an extreme example. And a number of more modern examples already quoted. Despite Scottish moans about English oppression there aren't many places where secessionists would have such an easy ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 11 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Nation states generally take attempts to break them up pretty seriously especially if they are or can be viewed as illegal. See the American Civil War as an extreme example. And a number of more modern examples already quoted. Despite Scottish moans about English oppression there aren't many places where secessionists would have such an easy ride. Who is moaning about English oppression? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey J J Jr Shabadoo Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 1 minute ago, coconut doug said: Who is moaning about English oppression? He must mean, in a democracy, Sturgeon, et Al, should be locked up in jail, for a decade, just for doing what they think is right for Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said: He must mean, in a democracy, Sturgeon, et Al, should be locked up in jail, for a decade, just for doing what they think is right for Scotland. I'm sure he will be along in a minute to explain with examples as well as clarifying the other quoted examples where indy movements were viewed as illegal and not given such an easy ride as Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey J J Jr Shabadoo Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, coconut doug said: I'm sure he will be along in a minute to explain with examples as well as clarifying the other quoted examples where indy movements were viewed as illegal and not given such an easy ride as Scotland. No doubt he'll slaver some shite. For a remainer, who is Scottish and didn't vote. Forgot about him being the only person on the planet with a GFA solution. Edited October 15, 2019 by Joey J J Jr Shabadoo To highlight his shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 1 hour ago, coconut doug said: Who is moaning about English oppression? Oh come on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 1 hour ago, coconut doug said: I'm sure he will be along in a minute to explain with examples as well as clarifying the other quoted examples where indy movements were viewed as illegal and not given such an easy ride as Scotland. A number of examples have already been referred to. Another extreme example would be Biafra. And a topical one the Kurds and others involved in the Turkish/Syrian conflict. Maybe you could reciprocate by giving examples of secessionists who have had as easy a ride. Going back a bit Quebec? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said: He must mean, in a democracy, Sturgeon, et Al, should be locked up in jail, for a decade, just for doing what they think is right for Scotland. A bit of a stretch in interpreting my post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 13 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Oh come on! No answer again then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coconut doug Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 How old do you think the Biafran war is? There were no examples quoted as you claimed and the ones you quote now are not comparable in any reasonable way, We are not African or a middle Eastern Islamic country and they have not entered into a union with their neighbours and been denied the means to dissolve the union at later date. . Some in the region decide to dissolvetheir union though, do you remember the UnitedArab Republic? They managed to dissolve without too many difficulties iirc. Maybe you don't see it but your post and attitude suggest that you think preventing the democratic expression of Scottish people is a Good thing and that we should think ourselves lucky we haven't been treated like those of East Timor or Kurdistan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey J J Jr Shabadoo Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: A bit of a stretch in interpreting my post. Not really. Unless you would like, for once, to clarify? Edited October 15, 2019 by Joey J J Jr Shabadoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambos_1874 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 The sentences seem incredibly harsh and I think ultimately self defeatig for the Spanish state. It reminds of Irish Independence where there wasn't a significant level of support for it prior to the British executing various IRA men and consequently boosting support for independence as a byproduct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) With apologies to the OP 😛 , neither are right. Which essentially is the whole damn problem. 1. There is no majority for independence in Catalunya. Essentially, that's because Catalunya is wealthy - one of the wealthiest regions in the world - and doing very well, thanks. So just as middle class Scots had no desire or reason to vote YES in 2014, middle class Catalans have no desire or reason to either. 2. Unfortunately, the Catalan independence parties are full of zealots, so organised an unconstitutional referendum regardless; a referendum which huge numbers of people boycotted. Then these buffoons turned a drama into a crisis by unilaterally declaring independence - despite more than half of the people not wanting it! 3. The response of the Spanish authorities to the referendum and to UDI was and continues to be appalling and idiotic. Jackboots, violence, prosecutions, imprisonments. None of which does anything at all to calm things down. Instead... 4. For the first time since Franco, the far right has gained a foothold in Spain, leaving the People's Party apeing their policies and trying to sound as hardline as possible. Meanwhile, the monumentally clueless and self-regarding Catalan parties voted down the Socialists' budget (which would've pumped millions into Catalunya), thereby causing another election. The conclusion from that is obvious. The Catalan nationalists WANT a horribly authoritarian, reactionary, violent, nationalist government in Madrid - because then they can amplify their grievances and gain more support. It's quite disgustingly cynical. Both sides are a bunch of pathetic toddlers only interested in themselves and do nothing for their people whatsoever. 5. What's the solution? It's to renovate the constitution. At present, it has the effect of preventing legal referendums/plebiscites and locking Catalunya in regardless of what its people want. It's not fit for purpose in any way. But that doesn't justify illegal, extra-constitutional action: least of all when a majority of Catalans don't support it. An awful load of romanticised guff is spouted by far too many who should know better on this issue. By and large, it's just one form of selfish, narcissistic nationalism clashing with another form of selfish, narcissistic nationalism. Waving a flag makes **** all difference to most Catalans and most Spaniards. What matters to them are their actual daily lives. Edited October 15, 2019 by shaun.lawson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 3 hours ago, Barack said: Mulder & Scully 2 hours ago, I P Knightley said: I've got Cerys Matthews' phone number in my phone. You can have Cerys if I get Gillian Anderson. Still the most desirable woman on planet Earth. No contest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 13 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said: You can have Cerys if I get Gillian Anderson. Still the most desirable woman on planet Earth. No contest. **** up shaun, she's no even a Dalkeith 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, Smithee said: **** up shaun, she's no even a Dalkeith 10 You're weird. But hey ho: it only improves my chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 11 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said: You're weird. But hey ho: it only improves my chances. I reckon you were getting somewhere with Rachel Riley too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Just now, Smithee said: I reckon you were getting somewhere with Rachel Riley too You'd be in a small minority of one on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 I hope Russia go to town with Spain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey J J Jr Shabadoo Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 6 hours ago, Smithee said: **** up shaun, she's no even a Dalkeith 10 Not even with a fat arse and jeggings on, sitting outside cafe troy, smoking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 If Boris Johnson wanted to hold an English Indyref, who would he need to seek permission from and who would he negotiate with, before and after??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 58 minutes ago, ri Alban said: If Boris Johnson wanted to hold an English Indyref, who would he need to seek permission from and who would he negotiate with, before and after??? Very good point! Regards Catalonia...sentences seem severe. Indy campaigners messed up with the unofficial referendum, imo. It was never going to have legitimacy. Constitution banning secession seems rather undemocratic. Post WWI the whole thing was about the right of self determination a value still upheld by the UN charter so if people wish to vote on their future they should be allowed to, unhindered by others. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Camazzola Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 9 hours ago, shaun.lawson said: You can have Cerys if I get Gillian Anderson. Still the most desirable woman on planet Earth. No contest. Unfortunately, she isn't even the most desirable redhead. That accolade still sits with Jessica Chastain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said: Not even with a fat arse and jeggings on, sitting outside cafe troy, smoking? Not even sitting in king's park with a bottle of broon wine and a steak bake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 30 minutes ago, Samuel Camazzola said: Unfortunately, she isn't even the most desirable redhead. That accolade still sits with Jessica Chastain. Never. Gillian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah Jane Mee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chastain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 36 minutes ago, Samuel Camazzola said: Unfortunately, she isn't even the most desirable redhead. That accolade still sits with Jessica Chastain. Typoed and meant Christina Hendricks, obv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Burgundy Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 25 minutes ago, Justin Z said: Typoed and meant Christina Hendricks, obv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 38 minutes ago, Justin Z said: Typoed and meant Christina Hendricks, obv Bollocks, he meant Isla Fisher 20 years ago. I just realised though, we can never take the piss out of Miss West Lothian again when she's a Bathgate lassie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, Smithee said: Bollocks, he meant Isla Fisher 20 years ago Ooft. Maybe. 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey J J Jr Shabadoo Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Smithee said: Not even sitting in king's park with a bottle of broon wine and a steak bake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjcc Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Smithee said: Not even sitting in king's park with a bottle of broon wine and a steak bake. Not even leaving Bon Bon with her leggings up her fat hoof after getting her roots done, walking over to Lloyd’s for her script then iceland for the weekly shop. In her dressing gown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, gjcc said: Not even leaving Bon Bon with her leggings up her fat hoof after getting her roots done, walking over to Lloyd’s for her script then iceland for the weekly shop. In her dressing gown. Not even with an industrial sized vape hanging out her mouth, scowl on her face and hair in a greasy pony tail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjcc Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, Smithee said: Not even with an industrial sized vape hanging out her mouth, scowl on her face and hair in a greasy pony tail. sounds like it’s an all day sesh at the blacksmiths forge then. Lucky the kids are staying at all their da’s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
¼½¾ Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Smithee said: Not even sitting in king's park with a bottle of broon wine and a steak bake. Maybe someone's already been round the back of Widburn Miners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 14 minutes ago, Lemongrab said: Maybe someone's already been round the back of Widburn Miners? Knew it, Montevideo my arse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) Opinions have no right and wrong but I tend to look at it like this........ If a cause is supported by the mhanky mob from the Easy End of Glasgow, I want nothing to do with it and know that by supporting the 'other side' I am the good guy. I oppose the Catalonian separatists and I can sleep warmly at night. I am also pro Isreal, anti IRA , against Scottish Independence, pro Brexit and anti ETA. Edited October 16, 2019 by i8hibsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Z Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) Thankful that people who are so uninformed, reactionary and clueless that they base the value of their political opinions on football rivalries are nowhere near the levers of power. 🤩 Gutted that only slightly less glaikit people are more or less furiously w***ing the levers of power on a daily basis. 😔 Edited October 16, 2019 by Justin Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 10 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: Opinions have no right and wrong but I tend to look at it like this........ If a cause is supported by the mhanky mob from the Easy End of Glasgow, I want nothing to do with it and know that by supporting the 'other side' I am the good guy. I oppose the Catalonian separatists and I can sleep warmly at night. I am also pro Isreal, anti IRA , against Scottish Independence, pro Brexit and anti ETA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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