Scotland U19s

[Footballfirst]

7 minutes ago, Hungry hippo said:

 

Great to see. I'd guess that the plan will be for us to let him step up to the Championship  next season to allow him to come to continue his progress on another loan.

 

A lot could change in that time though.

 

He might be playing for Hearts in the Championship next season. 

[Lfhearts]

Going to see Calum on Saturday, your stats FF are first class shows you being capped a lot means little, only Lee Wallace and Ryan McGowan on that list have excelled.

[Footballfirst]

18 minutes ago, Lfhearts said:

Going to see Calum on Saturday, your stats FF are first class shows you being capped a lot means little, only Lee Wallace and Ryan McGowan on that list have excelled.

I'm heading to Penicuik v Stenhousemuir in the cup on Saturday.

 

Oddly I was talking to a mate last night about the Scottish U19 side that lost to Spain in the 2006 UEFA U19 Championship final. That acievement qualified Scotland for the World U20 championship the following season.

 

A few interesting names in both sides in that match

Scotland: Andrew McNeil, Andrew Cave-Brown, Lee Wallace, Grant, Scott Cuthbert, Simon Ferry, Calum Elliot, Michael McGlinchey, Ryan Conroy, Greg Cameron, Jamie Adams

Subs: Gary Kenneth, Scott Fox, Graham Dorrans, Brian Gilmour, Mark Reynolds

Spain: Adán, Barragán, Valiente, Piqué, Mario, Toni, Javi García, Capel, Róber, Mata, Bueno

Subs: Crespo, César, Granero, Ángel, Marc Pedraza, Jeffrén, Elustondo

 

Most of the Spanish players made a career out of football in the top leagues, while several Scottish players ended up at semi pro or part time clubs.

Edited October 15, 2019 by Footballfirst

[Lfhearts]

The year the 18s won European championships with Gary Mackay, Dave Bowman, Paul McStay, Pat Nevin etc in Scotland team was definitely the best at players kicking on and will never be beaten.

[will-i-am-a-jambo]

29 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I'm heading to Penicuik v Stenhousemuir in the cup on Saturday.

 

Oddly I was talking to a mate last night about the Scottish U19 side that lost to Spain in the 2006 UEFA U19 Championship final. That acievement qualified Scotland for the World U20 championship the following season.

 

A few interesting names in both sides in that match

Scotland: Andrew McNeil, Andrew Cave-Brown, Lee Wallace, Grant, Scott Cuthbert, Simon Ferry, Calum Elliot, Michael McGlinchey, Ryan Conroy, Greg Cameron, Jamie Adams

Subs: Gary Kenneth, Scott Fox, Graham Dorrans, Brian Gilmour, Mark Reynolds

Spain: Adán, Barragán, Valiente, Piqué, Mario, Toni, Javi García, Capel, Róber, Mata, Bueno

Subs: Crespo, César, Granero, Ángel, Marc Pedraza, Jeffrén, Elustondo

 

Most of the Spanish players made a career out of football in the top leagues, while several Scottish players ended up at semi pro or part time clubs.

 

Your last paragraph is interesting. Ive followed Scottish football for the last 20-odd years and I've always thought Scotland produce very good young players (lm talking u16s to u21s) but generally IMO they tend to stall and not kick on with their developments compare say to other European nations after a certain age. What is it that we do wrong in terms of development say from age 21? Is this a cultural issue perhaps or is it something we fail to utilise from the coaches/training or some other reason? I appreciate lm making sweeping generalisations but l think my point stands?

Edited October 15, 2019 by will-i-am-a-jambo

[Footballfirst]

7 minutes ago, Lfhearts said:

The year the 18s won European championships with Gary Mackay, Dave Bowman, Paul McStay, Pat Nevin etc in Scotland team was definitely the best at players kicking on and will never be beaten.

The Scotland under-18 squad pictured before a training session at Easter Road in February 1982, three months before the European Championship. Front row, left to right; Gary Mackay, John Hendrie, Eric Black, Billy Davies, Jim McInally, Jim Dobbin. Middle row; trainer Tom McNiven, coach Ross Mathie, Reynolds, Ally Dick, Clarke, Chalmers, Anderson, manager Andy Roxburgh. Back row; Dave Bowman, Dave McPherson, Robin Rae, Dave Beaumont, Bryan Gunn , Billy Livingstone, John Philliben.

[Ricardo Shillyshally]

Looks more like Kenny Black than Eric Black

[Hungry hippo]

59 minutes ago, will-i-am-a-jambo said:

 

Your last paragraph is interesting. Ive followed Scottish football for the last 20-odd years and I've always thought Scotland produce very good young players (lm talking u16s to u21s) but generally IMO they tend to stall and not kick on with their developments compare say to other European nations after a certain age. What is it that we do wrong in terms of development say from age 21? Is this a cultural issue perhaps or is it something we fail to utilise from the coaches/training or some other reason? I appreciate lm making sweeping generalisations but l think my point stands?

 

It's something that has been said a lot although having watched a lot of the recent Scotland U21 games and tonight's U19 game I think the current crop aren't that great. 

 

The point I'm trying to make that I don't see it as being as much of a coaching/development issue and more about ability. As much as attitudes of players like Calum Elliot and Si Ferry could be questioned I think there is a gulf in ability (with the vast majority of players) that could never be bridged.

 

I'm not a negative person and was very proud of their performance tonight and they are good players- they are just below many other nations despite working their areas off for good results.

 

At youth level it seems easier to me cancel each other out. Despite a very good performance by the U19s tonight I would say that you could see the class of some of the Germans was far greater.

[upgotheheads]

11 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

I'm heading to Penicuik v Stenhousemuir in the cup on Saturday.

 

Oddly I was talking to a mate last night about the Scottish U19 side that lost to Spain in the 2006 UEFA U19 Championship final. That acievement qualified Scotland for the World U20 championship the following season.

 

A few interesting names in both sides in that match

Scotland: Andrew McNeil, Andrew Cave-Brown, Lee Wallace, Grant, Scott Cuthbert, Simon Ferry, Calum Elliot, Michael McGlinchey, Ryan Conroy, Greg Cameron, Jamie Adams

Subs: Gary Kenneth, Scott Fox, Graham Dorrans, Brian Gilmour, Mark Reynolds

Spain: Adán, Barragán, Valiente, Piqué, Mario, Toni, Javi García, Capel, Róber, Mata, Bueno

Subs: Crespo, César, Granero, Ángel, Marc Pedraza, Jeffrén, Elustondo

 

Most of the Spanish players made a career out of football in the top leagues, while several Scottish players ended up at semi pro or part time clubs.

 

10 hours ago, will-i-am-a-jambo said:

 

Your last paragraph is interesting. Ive followed Scottish football for the last 20-odd years and I've always thought Scotland produce very good young players (lm talking u16s to u21s) but generally IMO they tend to stall and not kick on with their developments compare say to other European nations after a certain age. What is it that we do wrong in terms of development say from age 21? Is this a cultural issue perhaps or is it something we fail to utilise from the coaches/training or some other reason? I appreciate lm making sweeping generalisations but l think my point stands?

 

I logged-on to this topic with exactly these questions in mind. Often when you see Scottish international age group squads right from schoolboy level it's disappointing to see how few actually go on to have good careers in football.

My own feeling is that the self-discipline needed to become a top level footballer is something most of us (me included) just don't have. When a boy gets to 19 or 20 the drink, women (mostly), and a few crunching tackles have persuaded him that professional football isn't for them.

There could be other factors like coaches not being prepared to give young players enough exposure. The managers job is on the line so he often goes for experience before young talent, until the younger players just give up on the hard work without enough progress. Whatever it is, talent with a football at your feet just isn't enough.

 

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by upgotheheads

[hmfc_liam06]

29 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

 

I logged-on to this topic with exactly these questions in mind. Often when you see Scottish international age group squads right from schoolboy level it's disappointing to see how few actually go on to have good careers in football.

My own feeling is that the self-discipline needed to become a top level footballer is something most of us (me included) just don't have. When a boy gets to 19 or 20 the drink, women (mostly), and a few crunching tackles have persuaded him that professional football isn't for them.

There could be other factors like coaches not being prepared to give young players enough exposure. The managers job is on the line so he often goes for experience before young talent, until the younger players just give up on the hard work without enough progress. Whatever it is, talent with a football at your feet just isn't enough.

 

 

 

It is all about commitment for me. Talent only gets you so far. Ronaldo is the ultimate example of a kid who had immense talents but worked his arse off and dedicated his life to football.
 

[martoon]

11 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

The Scotland under-18 squad pictured before a training session at Easter Road in February 1982, three months before the European Championship. Front row, left to right; Gary Mackay, John Hendrie, Eric Black, Billy Davies, Jim McInally, Jim Dobbin. Middle row; trainer Tom McNiven, coach Ross Mathie, Reynolds, Ally Dick, Clarke, Chalmers, Anderson, manager Andy Roxburgh. Back row; Dave Bowman, Dave McPherson, Robin Rae, Dave Beaumont, Bryan Gunn , Billy Livingstone, John Philliben.

 

February 1982. What a month that was for Hearts. Good going that, despite the state of the club, we had two youngsters in that Scotland squad. Remarkable, too, that Gary and Dave were already established first team players at Tynecastle.

 

 

[Kiwidoug]

Beat Germany 1-0.

[martoon]

17 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

The Scotland under-18 squad pictured before a training session at Easter Road in February 1982, three months before the European Championship. Front row, left to right; Gary Mackay, John Hendrie, Eric Black, Billy Davies, Jim McInally, Jim Dobbin. Middle row; trainer Tom McNiven, coach Ross Mathie, Reynolds, Ally Dick, Clarke, Chalmers, Anderson, manager Andy Roxburgh. Back row; Dave Bowman, Dave McPherson, Robin Rae, Dave Beaumont, Bryan Gunn , Billy Livingstone, John Philliben.

 

Can anyone else see the toll the Easter Road slope has taken on that photo? 

[milky_26]

7 hours ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

It is all about commitment for me. Talent only gets you so far. Ronaldo is the ultimate example of a kid who had immense talents but worked his arse off and dedicated his life to football.
 

and on the other end of the scale, IIRC ferguson said ravel morrison was one of the most gifted players he had seen. his application and dedication have meant his career is not at the top.

 

also beckham not the most gifted player but he stayed back at training and kept practicing hitting dead balls look what that did for his game

[Mikey1874]

Game still on iplayer and website

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/49987377

 

[pattythejambo]

5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Game still on iplayer and website

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/49987377

 

Watched the game live last night, I thought Chris Hamilton done well won his fair share of headers for a smaller centre back reading of the game fantastic and not frightened to empty it when required brave to go with it.

[Mikey1874]

 

 

[hmfc_liam06]

39 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

and on the other end of the scale, IIRC ferguson said ravel morrison was one of the most gifted players he had seen. his application and dedication have meant his career is not at the top.

 

also beckham not the most gifted player but he stayed back at training and kept practicing hitting dead balls look what that did for his game

 

Not just football either. A young guy at my golf club was touted as one of Scotland's next big things, scholarship in the States etc. Pissed it all up the wall because he couldn't be arsed doing the graft.

 

Another guy from his age group - Bob McIntyre.

[Cruyff Turn]

Our youth groups are always good, but as soon as they hit 21 they become shite for whatever reason. 

[John Findlay]

To much to soon. Lets take Aaron Hickey. 17 years old and allegedly currently earning £1,000 per week. Now that is £52,000 a year at 17. There are those advocating he should have that tripled or even quadrupled, seriously?

 

[Kiwidoug]

31 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

To much to soon. Lets take Aaron Hickey. 17 years old and allegedly currently earning £1,000 per week. Now that is £52,000 a year at 17. There are those advocating he should have that tripled or even quadrupled, seriously?

 

Sorry John but I'm one of them.  He is a prize asset.  Who knows what kind of terms his dad is learning about from elsewhere.

 

I'd rather invest in him him than what we will be paying many others.

[Mikey1874]

Another key game next month this time at Tynecastle. 

 

Scotland v Greece U21s, top 2 in group both unbeaten. 

 

Fri 15 Nov 7pm. £5 adults. 

 

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/tynecastle-to-host-under-21-european-qualifier

[John Findlay]

29 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

Sorry John but I'm one of them.  He is a prize asset.  Who knows what kind of terms his dad is learning about from elsewhere.

 

I'd rather invest in him him than what we will be paying many others.

We will have to agree to disagree.

[Rudy T]

13 hours ago, upgotheheads said:

 

 

I logged-on to this topic with exactly these questions in mind. Often when you see Scottish international age group squads right from schoolboy level it's disappointing to see how few actually go on to have good careers in football.

My own feeling is that the self-discipline needed to become a top level footballer is something most of us (me included) just don't have. When a boy gets to 19 or 20 the drink, women (mostly), and a few crunching tackles have persuaded him that professional football isn't for them.

There could be other factors like coaches not being prepared to give young players enough exposure. The managers job is on the line so he often goes for experience before young talent, until the younger players just give up on the hard work without enough progress. Whatever it is, talent with a football at your feet just isn't enough.

 

 

 

The major factor for me is the league set up. There’s too many leagues and not enough teams in the top leagues. The pressure on managers to stay in the league is so intense they cannot risk blooding too many youngsters. These guys stagnate and drift away. A two pro league set up of 18/16 teams would create far more opportunities for youngsters to develop. We also have the old firm who must play 4 times (at least a season) for the halfwits at the SFA and SPFL to attempt to win a TV deal. All pro teams should have proper facilities including academy’s to be admitted to the league.

 

Any young Scottish player who gets the chance to leave Scotland should do so immediately, it’s so sad to say but that’s the reality. 

[Mikey1874]

12 hours ago, Rudy T said:

 

The major factor for me is the league set up. There’s too many leagues and not enough teams in the top leagues. The pressure on managers to stay in the league is so intense they cannot risk blooding too many youngsters. These guys stagnate and drift away. A two pro league set up of 18/16 teams would create far more opportunities for youngsters to develop. We also have the old firm who must play 4 times (at least a season) for the halfwits at the SFA and SPFL to attempt to win a TV deal. All pro teams should have proper facilities including academy’s to be admitted to the league.

 

Any young Scottish player who gets the chance to leave Scotland should do so immediately, it’s so sad to say but that’s the reality. 

 

Quite a few of the U19 squad are playing games. Ethan Ross at Aberdeen. Jamie Hamilton at Hamilton. And Hickey (who didn't play any games here).

 

But some of the best players are the Rangers players. Josh McPake is on loan at Dundee. But the others aren't on loan and have no chance of playing for Rangers. Dapo Mebude has been in some squads and might get 10 minutes but loan players Defoe and Kent plus Barker are in front of him. 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Mikey1874

[Lfhearts]

Mikey you need to wisen up Kent and Barker are wingers, Mebube is a striker I suspect if he was at Hearts you and jig would be moist.

I have no doubt if he was at Hearts the clamour to get him in team would be unbearable, as would Levein playing Wighton/McLean etc.before him.

As it is Rangers are a bit light on strikers and he will get the odd game as sub.