Bulgaria

[Boris]

2 minutes ago, Tasavallan said:

The crossing of themselves as they leave the tunnel does tend to give it away.

 

How do you know if they are Orthodox, Catholic or Anglican?

[Tasavallan]

I was a lad in the Shed when Mark Walters was pelted by bananas.  It has apparently progressed to coconuts now (being thrown at Uche by the vermin).  Can I call them vermin or is that rodentism. 

[Sherbet]

1 hour ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

Behave, they were making monkey noises.

 

The Bulgarian boss doesn't want his family targeted so I'd imagine that explains his temporary hearing issues. Much like everyone in the authorities in Scotland every week. 

 

Behave?  I've already said I didnt watch the game

[Tasavallan]

2 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

How do you know if they are Orthodox, Catholic or Anglican?

 Aye very good. As my granny would say, born with the map of Ireland on there face.  Surnames do tend to hint. 

 

My wife is staunch Orthodox and has never crossed herself.  And as for Anglicans, or Episcopalians, as they are called then in Scotland, do they cross themselves?   

[Boris]

Just now, Tasavallan said:

 Aye very good. As my granny would say, born with the map of Ireland on there face.  Surnames do tend to hint. 

 

My wife is staunch Orthodox and has never crossed herself.  And as for Anglicans, or Episcopalians, as they are called then in Scotland, do they cross themselves?   

 

I think the Russian orthodox cross movement is different from the Catholics, and yes, anglicans can should they want to.

 

https://www.orthodox.net/articles/about-crossing-oneself.html

[redjambo]

10 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

How do you know if they are Orthodox, Catholic or Anglican?

 

As far as I remember, the Orthodox cross themselves a different way to the Catholics (right nipple before left, or the other way around)?

 

Edit: Ah, you beat me to it.

Edited October 15, 2019 by redjambo

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

I think the Russian orthodox cross movement is different from the Catholics, and yes, anglicans can should they want to.

 

https://www.orthodox.net/articles/about-crossing-oneself.html

 

Remember that there is more to Orthodox than Russian Orthodox. I was basing my memory on my time spent in Greece.

[Perth to Paisley]

Racism is despicable in all forms including:

* Bulgarian fans

* Katy Hopkins

* The Sun

*  Daily Mail

* The Express

* LBC 

* Major UK political parties

* others too numerous to mention

 

... it's just some are more blatant!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Boris]

2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Remember that there is more to Orthodox than Russian Orthodox. I was basing my memory on my time spent in Greece.

 

I think it's still "orthodox" despite the Greek and Russian attachment.

 

https://www.oca.org/questions/namerica/greek-orthodox-and-russian-orthodox

[Boris]

2 minutes ago, Perth to Paisley said:

Racism is despicable in all forms including:

* Bulgarian fans

* Katy Hopkins

* The Sun

*  Daily Mail

* The Express

* LBC 

* Major UK political parties

* others too numerous to mention

 

... it's just some are more blatant!

 

 

 

 

 

 

IMO, Boris Johnson did it in parliament yesterday!

 

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2019-10-14/debates/C02C488A-E8CB-459F-A491-78BA5A98A9CB/DebateOnTheAddress?highlight=like transylvanian sunlight#contribution-E6418D28-9470-43E8-9FCC-BE69734E66B3

 

"Transylvanian in sunlight" - tut, tut.

[redjambo]

Just now, Boris said:

 

I think it's still "orthodox" despite the Greek and Russian attachment.

 

https://www.oca.org/questions/namerica/greek-orthodox-and-russian-orthodox

 

Sorry, I'm not explaining myself very well as usual, Boris. You talked about the Russian Orthodoxes crossing themselves a different way. And often, people say "Russian Orthodox" when they're talking about the whole Orthodox "movement", probably because half of all Eastern Orthodox believers are Russian. I was just standing up for the non-Russian Orthodoxes, 'tis all, and pointing out that the different crossing technique, as far as I am aware, refers to the whole Orthodox church, not just the Russians.

[Boris]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

Sorry, I'm not explaining myself very well as usual, Boris. You talked about the Russian Orthodoxes crossing themselves a different way. And often, people say "Russian Orthodox" when they're talking about the whole Orthodox "movement", probably because half of all Eastern Orthodox believers are Russian. I was just standing up for the non-Russian Orthodoxes, 'tis all, and pointing out that the different crossing technique, as far as I am aware, refers to the whole Orthodox church, not just the Russians.

Ah, gotcha!

 

And you are of course, correct!

 

Not sure if there is tension within orthodoxy as Moscow always saw itself as the 3rd Rome (after Rome and Byzantium/Constantinople) thus giving them primacy over everyone else?

Edited October 15, 2019 by Boris

[Ballitojambo]

24 minutes ago, Boris said:

IMO, Boris Johnson did it in parliament yesterday!

 

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2019-10-14/debates/C02C488A-E8CB-459F-A491-78BA5A98A9CB/DebateOnTheAddress?highlight=like transylvanian sunlight#contribution-E6418D28-9470-43E8-9FCC-BE69734E66B3

 

"Transylvanian in sunlight" - tut, tut.

 

vampireism of the worst kind, although not a vampire myself ,i defend the vampires right to his life choice.

[Hectormasson]

15 hours ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

That's just not the case. Mings was abused and clearly asked the linesman 'Did you hear that ?'. The message got to Southgate who complained to the official. They showed this during halftime. 

 

Utter scumbags and England dishing out a hiding which is most pleasing. 

Here here 👏👏👏

[Marvin]

17 hours ago, Rudy T said:

This will get abandoned.

 

Respect to England for playing whilst clearly being racially abused. No need for it in our beautiful game.

 

[Marvin]

2 hours ago, Tommy Brown said:

No, much worse.

Chris Robinson

 

[smiler]

2 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

I was basing my memory on my time spent in Greece.

Ah yes, that fortnight in Kavos was champion.

[Don Dan]

President of Bulgarian FU Borislav Mickailov has resigned. He failed but well done him for resigning. 
 

[Mid Calder Jambo]

3 hours ago, Perth to Paisley said:

Racism is despicable in all forms including:

* Bulgarian fans

* Katy Hopkins

* The Sun

*  Daily Mail

* The Express

* LBC 

* Major UK political parties

* others too numerous to mention

 

... it's just some are more blatant!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Absolutely agree with you PtoP. 

 

What some people may not like to hear is that there is baws aw football can do about it.  England, IMHO did it the right way and hammered Bulgaria, but how can any football association stop these people getting tickets and doing what they did.  Until these cretins are prosecuted in the courts then this will never change. It will still take decades to root out and asking for some football administrators head is not the solution.

[fabienleclerq]

3 hours ago, Sherbet said:

Behave?  I've already said I didnt watch the game

 

What difference does that make? 

 

You're post was shite and somehow trying to turn the topic to talk about persecution of "white protestants". I doubt anyone could name 10 protestant players unless they had an agenda. 

[Sherbet]

1 minute ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

What difference does that make? 

 

You're post was shite and somehow trying to turn the topic to talk about persecution of "white protestants". I doubt anyone could name 10 protestant players unless they had an agenda. 

Ask the green brigade

[fabienleclerq]

7 minutes ago, Sherbet said:

Ask the green brigade

 

[Japan Jambo]

Great to read the almost universal condemnation of racism.  There seems to be a fairly widespread acceptance that the three stage protocol was a positive step forward - do people here think this will be a pathway that can help eliminate sectarianism in our game?

[Spellczech]

Our idiot element would've risen to the bait just like the Bulgarian idiots did...and the English hooligans do at every tournament. For people with the mob mentality, being told to behave is like a red rag to a bull

Edited October 15, 2019 by Spellczech

[Mid Calder Jambo]

44 minutes ago, Jap Jambo said:

Great to read the almost universal condemnation of racism.  There seems to be a fairly widespread acceptance that the three stage protocol was a positive step forward - do people here think this will be a pathway that can help eliminate sectarianism in our game?

Would love to see it and i would wholeheartedly support it. 

 

The huge but being and very similar to the racism problem, that thiis not a football problem.  It is a societal problem that manifests itself at football matches, because lets be honest here, football attracts a greater share of misceants than you would see in society in general.  Until the Police start lifting and charging the racists and the sectarianists then nothing is going to change.  Football can try their best but these problems are for governments to tackle.

[Brighton Jambo]

2 hours ago, Dannie Boy said:

President of Bulgarian FU Borislav Mickailov has resigned. He failed but well done him for resigning. 
 

I assuming you didn’t read the detail.  The Prime Minister  of Bulgaria announced this morning that until he resigned the government would provide no support or cooperation, including financial, to the Bulgarian football authorities. 

 

The man has overseen one of the most racist set of national fans and only resigns when threatened directly by the PM.

 

not having a dig at you but that man never deserves a well done.  

[Bazzas right boot]

59 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Our idiot element would've risen to the bait just like the Bulgarian idiots did...and the English hooligans do at every tournament. For people with the mob mentality, being told to behave is like a red rag to a bull

 

 

Tbf, it's a red rag to anyone. 

 

I told my wife to behave once. 

[Don Dan]

38 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I assuming you didn’t read the detail.  The Prime Minister  of Bulgaria announced this morning that until he resigned the government would provide no support or cooperation, including financial, to the Bulgarian football authorities. 

 

The man has overseen one of the most racist set of national fans and only resigns when threatened directly by the PM.

 

not having a dig at you but that man never deserves a well done.  

no just the headline whilst on the move.

[redjambo]

3 hours ago, smiler said:

Ah yes, that fortnight in Kavos was champion.

 

You mean Athos, shurely? ;)

[Brighton Jambo]

27 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

no just the headline whilst on the move.

Fair game

[Tommy Brown]

8 hours ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

Behave, they were making monkey noises.

 

The Bulgarian boss doesn't want his family targeted so I'd imagine that explains his temporary hearing issues. Much like everyone in the authorities in Scotland every week. 

 

As far as I'm concerned @Sherbet point is valid imo.

 

I've seen threads on here turn into racist witch-hunts for daring to slate black players.

 

Treading on eggshells.

[Don Dan]

A UEFA statement confirmed: "Disciplinary proceedings have been opened following the UEFA European Qualifiers match between Bulgaria and England (0-6), played on 14 October.

  Charges against Bulgarian Football Union:    

- Racist behaviour (chants, Nazi salutes) - Art. 14 of the UEFA Disciplinary Regulations (DR)

- Throwing of objects - Art. 16 (2) (b) DR

- Disruption of national anthem - Art. 16 (2) (g) DR

- Replays on giant screen - Art. 42 of the UEFA Safety and Security Regulations

 
 

 

 

Charges against English Football Association:    

- Disruption of national anthem - Art. 16 (2) DR

- Insufficient number of travelling stewards - Art. 24 (2) of the UEFA Safety and Security Regulations

The case will be dealt with by the UEFA Control, Ethics and Disciplinary Body with the date of the meeting yet to be confirmed."

 

im not sure how you gauge the number of stewards required for travelling fans. Unless it’s tickets only via the FA or supporter clubs. 

[jake]

Interesting take on it from Nil by mouth.

Calling for the same protocol from the spl regarding sectarianism.

 

 

[smiler]

3 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

You mean Athos, shurely?

Indeed.

Off topic but I don't mind the Greek beers, Mythos Fix and Alpha, quite nice. 

[Mikey1874]

36 minutes ago, jake said:

Interesting take on it from Nil by mouth.

Calling for the same protocol from the spl regarding sectarianism.

 

 

 

The protocol is good. 

 

What you do with abandoned games though. 

 

It worked last night because the idiots left /were ejected and the game could go on.

Edited October 15, 2019 by Mikey1874

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, smiler said:

Indeed.

Off topic but I don't mind the Greek beers, Mythos Fix and Alpha, quite nice. 

 

Mythos was the one I used to down. I sometimes wonder if it was the location more than the beer itself though. A cool refreshing Mythos sipped in an Athens street café as the world bustles by - scrumptious.

[Tommy Brown]

46 minutes ago, jake said:

Interesting take on it from Nil by mouth.

Calling for the same protocol from the spl regarding sectarianism.

 

 

Farting in the wind.

Cannot agree what's offensive.

Is Irish folk songs offensive? 

Bugger all to to with Scotland, even less so, Scottish football.

 

If they start adding in their own wordings to songs. Good go after them.

[shaun.lawson]

4 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I assuming you didn’t read the detail.  The Prime Minister  of Bulgaria announced this morning that until he resigned the government would provide no support or cooperation, including financial, to the Bulgarian football authorities. 

 

The man has overseen one of the most racist set of national fans and only resigns when threatened directly by the PM.

 

not having a dig at you but that man never deserves a well done.  

 

Not only that - but within an hour of his resignation, the Bulgarian police had raided the Bulgarian FA HQ. In relation to possible match-fixing.

 

44 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

The protocol is good. 

 

What you do with abandoned games though. 

 

It worked last night because the idiots left /were ejected and the game could go on.

 

You award them 3-0 to the innocent party. 

 

1 hour ago, jake said:

Interesting take on it from Nil by mouth.

Calling for the same protocol from the spl regarding sectarianism.

 

 

 

Quite right too.

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 hours ago, jake said:

Interesting take on it from Nil by mouth.

Calling for the same protocol from the spl regarding sectarianism.

 

 

They’re suggesting the SPL follow this for sectarianism but not racism?  How would this work without strict liability anyway?

[jake]

2 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

They’re suggesting the SPL follow this for sectarianism but not racism?  How would this work without strict liability anyway?

Think it was more a case of shaming them for their inaction.

[glynnlondon]

6 hours ago, Tommy Brown said:

Farting in the wind.

Cannot agree what's offensive.

Is Irish folk songs offensive? 

Bugger all to to with Scotland, even less so, Scottish football.

 

If they start adding in their own wordings to songs. Good go after them.

Very much this , what is sung and what is inferred by said song are often very different.

How do you police that ?

With the absolute incompetence within the football authorities and the cops coupled with an ingrained ostrich mentality , and of course holding up Huey and Duey to the world as an example of what's great ( read the only thing great ) about Scottish fitba.

Nas feckin chance , they'll do jack shit , a few op ed pieces and a wringing of hands before hoisting up the carpet and sweeping like a lassie at the curling.

[fabienleclerq]

13 hours ago, Tommy Brown said:

As far as I'm concerned @Sherbet point is valid imo.

 

I've seen threads on here turn into racist witch-hunts for daring to slate black players.

 

Treading on eggshells.

 

I could take his point if he wasn't banging on about the green brigade and "white protestants " being persecuted. 

[DETTY29]

Out of interest, if England had walked off without going through formal 3, I think stage protocol, what would have happened?

 

Result stood, at time of game abandonment considering how far England were ahead and overl group position?

 

Match replayed behind  closed doors? At a neutral venue.

 

Result overturned to 3.0 in favour of Bulgaria and England facing significant further sanction?

 

Rock and hard place, but unless I've missed it from snippet headlines and very few few media outlets I've reviewed, not something that has been broached.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mikey1874]

3 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

Out of interest, if England had walked off without going through formal 3, I think stage protocol, what would have happened?

 

Result stood, at time of game abandonment considering how far England were ahead and overl group position?

 

Match replayed behind  closed doors? At a neutral venue.

 

Result overturned to 3.0 in favour of Bulgaria and England facing significant further sanction?

 

Rock and hard place, but unless I've missed it from snippet headlines and very few few media outlets I've reviewed, not something that has been broached.

 

Don't know and don't see it mentioned anywhere.

 

What happened was a good outcome. But loads of people including Kick it Out are saying protocol wasn't followed properly and game should have been abandoned.

 

It certainly creates a problem to have to decide the result. 

[Nookie Bear]

Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

Don't know and don't see it mentioned anywhere.

 

What happened was a good outcome. But loads of people including Kick it Out are saying protocol wasn't followed properly and game should have been abandoned.

 

It certainly creates a problem to have to decide the result. 

 

That's easy for Kick It Out to say but they would not be thrust forward as the public face of Anti Racism in World Football: that 'honour' would fall to the likes of Raheem Sterling.

 

Now, does a 24-yr old footballer really want to be in that particular firing line? Or does he just want to play football, expecting the authorities to actually uphold the law and do their job?

 

And, as lame as it sounds, there would be a public order consideration for abandoning a football match and perhaps it is better to go down the route of applying the punishment after the event (in this case, Bulgaria should be expelled from the next Euro Championship qualifiers)

[DETTY29]

Just now, Nookie Bear said:

 

That's easy for Kick It Out to say but they would not be thrust forward as the public face of Anti Racism in World Football: that 'honour' would fall to the likes of Raheem Sterling.

 

Now, does a 24-yr old footballer really want to be in that particular firing line? Or does he just want to play football, expecting the authorities to actually uphold the law and do their job?

 

And, as lame as it sounds, there would be a public order consideration for abandoning a football match and perhaps it is better to go down the route of applying the punishment after the event (in this case, Bulgaria should be expelled from the next Euro Championship qualifiers)

 

6 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Don't know and don't see it mentioned anywhere.

 

What happened was a good outcome. But loads of people including Kick it Out are saying protocol wasn't followed properly and game should have been abandoned.

 

It certainly creates a problem to have to decide the result. 

As disgusting as the actons of the crowd were, IMO it's not Englands decision (or any team or players impacted) to walk off.  All they can do is continue to make correct complaints during the course of the game and allow the match officials and delegates to follow the procedures.

 

 

 

 

[Fxxx the SPFL]

7 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

 

As disgusting as the actons of the crowd were, IMO it's not Englands decision (or any team or players impacted) to walk off.  All they can do is continue to make correct complaints during the course of the game and allow the match officials and delegates to follow the procedures.

 

 

 

 

That's the way i see it Step 3 is match abandoned.

[Nookie Bear]

15 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

 

As disgusting as the actons of the crowd were, IMO it's not Englands decision (or any team or players impacted) to walk off.  All they can do is continue to make correct complaints during the course of the game and allow the match officials and delegates to follow the procedures.

 

 

 

 

 

Personally i think it is ridiculous to expect an official to 'police' the crowd as well as the players. There are enough UEFA delegates in attendance at these games that they can easily have one sitting in each section of the crowd to alert someone to racist language.

 

I was speaking to the referee who was in charge of a Scottish game where a player was singled out for racist language (it might even have been Callum Tapping) and some players were criticising him for not taking action. He responded by saying that he did not hear what was said, he certainly could not point out the culprit and, in any event, there were stewards and police officers much better placed to deal with it.

[Sherbet]

5 hours ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

I could take his point if he wasn't banging on about the green brigade and "white protestants " being persecuted. 

Banging on?  I mentioned both once

[davemclaren]

Kevin Harper believing that racism is creeping back into Scottish football. 
 

Racism 'creeping back' in Scottish football, says Kevin Harper https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50066351