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Steve Clarke


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11 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

Don’t like his tinkering, strange selections - not playing best players in best positions.. still I’d take him for HMFC

 

You mean all those things that you accuse CL of doing?

 

Oh dear, the hypocrisy.

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2 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

Levein had a considerably better Scotland record than Clarke currently has.

 

This.

 

But the haters don't like facts.

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A_A wehatethehibs
20 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

This.

 

But the haters don't like facts.

 

Craig Levein had arguably the strongest Scotland squad since 98 but left in-form strikers on the bench in a crucial must win game at Czech Republic, whereas Clarke has the weakest squad I can remember and he doesn’t actually have any worthwhile strikers available for selection, so its comparing apples and oranges really.

 

If a coach of Clarkes pedigree had been in charge of Leveins squad of 2010 Scotland would have qualified for something not a doubt in my mind about that. 

 

https://www.worldfootball.net/teams/schottland-team/em-qualifikation-2010-2011/2/

 

Edited by A_A wehatethehibs
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Who was the last Scotland manager who's tenure did not end with a dark stain on his résumé? Deserved or not.

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He should at very least be able to set out a team to be competitive. Our squad is no worse than most mid-tier nations, in fact arguably it's better as not many countries have players who are first choice for Manchester United, Arsenal and Liverpool.

 

Probably very harsh to say he's under pressure, but he's certainly not meeting expectations so far.

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8 minutes ago, jb102 said:

Who was the last Scotland manager who's tenure did not end with a dark stain on his résumé? Deserved or not.

 Walter Smith probably.

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rudi must stay

Way too early to say. Tough set of games and he hasnt qualified, can you expect wins v Russia and Belgium? I don't think so. Next qualifying group is the time to judge him, when he's had time to bring in ideas

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portobellojambo1
10 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said:

There’s absolutely no point in changing the manager. It doesn’t matter who it is, we’re just shit. Clarke’s got nothing to choose from in certain positions. 

 

That said, he needs to be brave, clear the decks and start promoting the youngsters. 

 

Agree with this. I do think, given how well he seemed to be doing at Kilmarnock, he made a stupid decision in even taking the position in the 1st place. Whether some like it or not Scotland quite simply have a very poor group of players to choose from, and when put together even the better ones look poor rather than providing the impetus for those around them to look a bit better. Robertson at Liverpool and McGinn at Aston Villa are both doing really weel at club level, but even they look nothing more than average in the Scottish national side. It is actually a bit frightening that being as poor as we are there is still the opportunity to actually qualify for this through a back door. These sort of tournaments should be to showcase the best teams, and we are light years away from even being half decent. But if a bigger tournament generates more money for UEFA then it is job done as far as they are concerned.

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14 minutes ago, rudi must stay said:

Way too early to say. Tough set of games and he hasnt qualified, can you expect wins v Russia and Belgium? I don't think so. Next qualifying group is the time to judge him, when he's had time to bring in ideas

 

Maybe not expect to win, but we should at least compete against them, instead we've been humped in every game.

 

The Northern Irish by contrast, with what I would argue is a far inferior squad, have run the Dutch and the Germans very close over the same period.

 

Further Clarke was able to turn around Killie very quickly with a poorer squad, why not Scotland?

Edited by Martin_T
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Clarke quickly finding out that International football is a completely different animal to club football, Clark's never had instant success but has over time coached teams into being better than the sum of their parts. International football is more in game tactics than training pitch coaching, how can you coach a team into a way of playing when the squad is different almost everytime and you only have the players for a week at a time?

 

The best nations have a core group of players that have been together for a number of years and have played 30-40 games together as a team with quite a number of them doing so throughout the age groups. They also have a clear progression plan, take a look at Southgate, when someone pulls out of the England squad he invariably promotes someone from the u21 side. When was the last time we had someone pull out of the squad and they were replaced by someone from the u21's? Instead we'll hand caps out to journeymen from the english lower leagues that have a scottish granny!

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rudi must stay
9 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

 

Maybe not expect to win, but we should at least compete against them, instead we've been humped in every game.

 

The Northern Irish by contrast, with what I would argue is a far inferior squad, have run the Dutch and the Germans very close over the same period.

 

Further Clarke was able to turn around Killie very quickly with a poorer squad, why not Scotland?

 

Northern Ireland are way ahead of us. Years with the results backing up O'Neill's work

 

Maybe with a higher profile of player it's tougher, but I have faith in him. Best person for the job currently 

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10 minutes ago, rudi must stay said:

Way too early to say. Tough set of games and he hasnt qualified, can you expect wins v Russia and Belgium? I don't think so. Next qualifying group is the time to judge him, when he's had time to bring in ideas

The problem is that we just capitulate as soon as we lose a goal. His Kilmarnock team was hard to break down, the Scotland team is so soft. Like at Hearts, players on the pitch need to take responsibility as well. There just seems like a complete lack of passion on the pitch and a sense of inevitability that we are going to lose. 

 

We wont lose against San Marino, but I cant see it being a goal fest. Cyprus away is a worry. If we go into the Nations League game on the back of 3 poor games against weaker teams I cant see us getting past the semi.

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A_A wehatethehibs
13 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

 

Maybe not expect to win, but we should at least compete against them, instead we've been humped in every game.

 

The Northern Irish by contrast, with what I would argue is a far inferior squad, have run the Dutch and the Germans very close over the same period.

 

Further Clarke was able to turn around Killie very quickly with a poorer squad, why not Scotland?

 

Looking at Northern Ireland’s team I would say 8 out of 11 of them would probably start for Scotland right now. 

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1 minute ago, rudi must stay said:

 

Northern Ireland are way ahead of us. Years with the results backing up O'Neill's work

 

Maybe with a higher profile of player it's tougher, but I have faith in him. Best person for the job currently 

 

Disagree with the first line. International football is about picking your strongest possible XI and setting them out in a way that they are able to get a result. Northern Ireland have not done anything different structurally to put them in an advantageous position. They have by comparison an inferior squad and are exceeding expectations.

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rudi must stay
6 minutes ago, tokyowalnut said:

The problem is that we just capitulate as soon as we lose a goal. His Kilmarnock team was hard to break down, the Scotland team is so soft. Like at Hearts, players on the pitch need to take responsibility as well. There just seems like a complete lack of passion on the pitch and a sense of inevitability that we are going to lose. 

 

We wont lose against San Marino, but I cant see it being a goal fest. Cyprus away is a worry. If we go into the Nations League game on the back of 3 poor games against weaker teams I cant see us getting past the semi.

 

Top players aren't stepping up, hence why he is giving the likes of the the Dundee United striker a chance. A lack of passion from particularly the Old Firm contingent is something we have suffered from for years.

 

8 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

 

Disagree with the first line. International football is about picking your strongest possible XI and setting them out in a way that they are able to get a result. Northern Ireland have not done anything different structurally to put them in an advantageous position. They have by comparison an inferior squad and are exceeding expectations.

 

This is true, but they are on a high and will continue to do well. Northern Ireland play in a way I don't think Scotland fans would accept though, 1 up front, counter attack. They play for a draw happily, it is like watching a Craig Levein team at times 

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56 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

 

Craig Levein had arguably the strongest Scotland squad since 98 but left in-form strikers on the bench in a crucial must win game at Czech Republic, whereas Clarke has the weakest squad I can remember and he doesn’t actually have any worthwhile strikers available for selection, so its comparing apples and oranges really.

 

If a coach of Clarkes pedigree had been in charge of Leveins squad of 2010 Scotland would have qualified for something not a doubt in my mind about that. 

 

https://www.worldfootball.net/teams/schottland-team/em-qualifikation-2010-2011/2/

 

 

Much the same squad as Burley had before him, yet his win percentage is almost double.

 

 

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kingantti1874
1 hour ago, Spoleto said:

 

You mean all those things that you accuse CL of doing?

 

Oh dear, the hypocrisy.


he got phenomenal results with a far poorer squad than we have. 
craig levein has failed spectacularly.. “as has Sean Clare 😉 

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40 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

Agree with this. I do think, given how well he seemed to be doing at Kilmarnock, he made a stupid decision in even taking the position in the 1st place. Whether some like it or not Scotland quite simply have a very poor group of players to choose from, and when put together even the better ones look poor rather than providing the impetus for those around them to look a bit better. Robertson at Liverpool and McGinn at Aston Villa are both doing really weel at club level, but even they look nothing more than average in the Scottish national side. It is actually a bit frightening that being as poor as we are there is still the opportunity to actually qualify for this through a back door. These sort of tournaments should be to showcase the best teams, and we are light years away from even being half decent. But if a bigger tournament generates more money for UEFA then it is job done as far as they are concerned.

Or judging by his track record as a number 1 his spell at Killie was a fluke?  Sometimes the facts are not considered by folk. Clarke appears to be a great number 2 but a dreadful number 1 other than a brief spell at Killie in the backwater that is Scottish football

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kingantti1874
1 hour ago, Spoleto said:

This.

 

But the haters don't like facts.


you want to talk facts? .. worst start to season since 1974.. worst run in the history of the club .. Kilmarnock have won more games at tynecastle than hearts have, all achieved at  time when off the park ..we have never ever been stronger and rarely had a stronger squad ..not a smart move to start talking facts propaganda boy 🤪

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1 hour ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

 

Looking at Northern Ireland’s team I would say 8 out of 11 of them would probably start for Scotland right now. 

 

Only Jonny Evans would get in the Scotland squad, possibly Michael Smith given our lack of options at right back.

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33 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:


you want to talk facts? .. worst start to season since 1974.. worst run in the history of the club .. Kilmarnock have won more games at tynecastle than hearts have, all achieved at  time when off the park ..we have never ever been stronger and rarely had a stronger squad ..not a smart move to start talking facts propaganda boy 🤪

 

Half of our squad is injured, we've definitely been far stronger in the past.

 

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48 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:


you want to talk facts? .. worst start to season since 1974.. worst run in the history of the club .. Kilmarnock have won more games at tynecastle than hearts have, all achieved at  time when off the park ..we have never ever been stronger and rarely had a stronger squad ..not a smart move to start talking facts propaganda boy 🤪

 

Here's a fact. 

 

8 first choice players out injured. 

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kingantti1874
29 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Half of our squad is injured, we've definitely been far stronger in the past.

 


worse run than Gary Locke who played Kids

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kingantti1874
19 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

Here's a fact. 

 

8 first choice players out injured. 


for all of the the past year? Don’t think so!! We both know if we post the lineups we’ve fielded over the past year we have enough NOT to be in the midst of our worst run in history, and we certainly have more than enough to be dealing with shite like east fife, Dundee Utd Ross county, Hamilton, Kilmarnock..  teams who have 1/5th of our wage bill. and it would have helped if he hadn’t signed utter shite like vanecek and Sean flair

Edited by kingantti1874
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Diadora Van Basten

I think that Scotland need two centre halfs, a right back and a centre forward.

 

Not sure why Scotland decided to bin Berra as last nights match would have been perfect for him.

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6 hours ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

 

Sorry to break the bad news to you, but there’s nobody else better than those 2 unless you want to see Berra back in the Scotland side... you’ll not find many jambos advocating 

 

I think two scarecrows in Scotland tops would be more efficient than Mulgrew and Hanley.....

 

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A_A wehatethehibs
43 minutes ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

I think that Scotland need two centre halfs, a right back and a centre forward.

 

Not sure why Scotland decided to bin Berra as last nights match would have been perfect for him.

 

I would sooner have Dikamona than Berra anywhere near a Scotland shirt on current form! 

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2 hours ago, Spoleto said:

 

Here's a fact. 

 

8 first choice players out injured. 

Naismith, Walker, Washington, Halkett and Souttar who are the other 3 ?

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9 hours ago, It should have been ten said:

Punting Strachan out the job was an absolute joke

 

Only wise thing the SFA have done in decades. If it weren't for Strachan's Levein like refual to admit he was wrong (about Griffiths, who he didn't start until it was almost too late), we'd have been nowhere in qualifying s opposed to almost making it.  Utter clown of a manger, buoy d up by a sycophantic media.

 

Plus, he's an asbsolute welt of a human being.

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8 hours ago, Mid Calder Jambo said:

Scotland have never recovered from that disasterous experiment with Voigts.  Does that not have an echo closer to home. :whistling:

 

Personally, I have never recovered from that night at the Stade de France.

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6 hours ago, Martin_T said:

He should at very least be able to set out a team to be competitive. Our squad is no worse than most mid-tier nations, in fact arguably it's better as not many countries have players who are first choice for Manchester United, Arsenal and Liverpool.

 

Probably very harsh to say he's under pressure, but he's certainly not meeting expectations so far.


indeed far from it. Call offs aside there is a good 12/15 players playing at a decent level or solid enough that should be performing far better

 

Marshall

Tierney

Souttar

McKenna

Robertson

McGinn

McGregor

Forrest

Paterson

Fraser

McTominay
Naismith

Griffiths

Fletcher

Burke

McBurnie

 

Should able to take most of those and make something out of it. Missing some should be able to replace them with players who can at least compete then adapt tactics to cover the problem of the missing players. 

 

 

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maroonedinbriz
3 hours ago, Der Kaiser said:

 

I think two scarecrows in Scotland tops would be more efficient than Mulgrew and Hanley.....

 

I've watched Scotland's centre half's,  Souter, Mckenna and I'll add Halkett. Just not good (strong) enough for international football.

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Guys, do you really think that he is going to be able to turn around the fortunes of the worst Scottish national team in living memory in the space of a few games? Come on. Youre better than that! You cant keep wanting managerial changes every 2 minutes and expect success! Give the guy time. He can do it. Hes by far an away the best Scottish manager out there. Im assuming most of you want a Scottish manager? We are an awful team. He can turn it around given time

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Guest ToqueJambo

I desperately want him to do well but Clarke has done very few good things so far. Would there have been anything lost in throwing Hickey in at RB instead of whatsisname? Why do other teams play teenagers and we don't? 

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It should have been ten
5 hours ago, HighTimes said:

 

Only wise thing the SFA have done in decades. If it weren't for Strachan's Levein like refual to admit he was wrong (about Griffiths, who he didn't start until it was almost too late), we'd have been nowhere in qualifying s opposed to almost making it.  Utter clown of a manger, buoy d up by a sycophantic media.

 

Plus, he's an asbsolute welt of a human being.

 

Aye ok

 

Agree with the last sentence 

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He’s had a real baptism of fire. Four games against probably the best team in the world and Russia. And in the positions Scotland are weakest - centre half and forward - he’s had numerous injuries. He really needs some results and, more importantly, performances in the next three qualifiers because the Nations League games are massive. 

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Bazzas right boot

Clarke played percentage football. 

 

Solid at the back, defend, capitalise on set pieces and win second balls to gain ground. 

 

His football wasn't forward thinking or revolutionary. 

 

It was direct and effective. 

 

At international level v most teams that isn't enough. 

 

Our players, well even compared to countries like Cyprus and such we look technically poor. 

 

We have poor centre half's and now have a championship level striker in the squad. 

 

It's a ****ing shambles tbh. 

 

Clarke deserves more time, but each manager is a sticky plaster and Scottish football is a gaping wound that needs major surgery. 

 

The governing body don't have the drive, stomach, motivation or competence to make change. 

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19 hours ago, Martin_T said:

 

Maybe not expect to win, but we should at least compete against them, instead we've been humped in every game.

 

The Northern Irish by contrast, with what I would argue is a far inferior squad, have run the Dutch and the Germans very close over the same period.

 

Further Clarke was able to turn around Killie very quickly with a poorer squad, why not Scotland?

Confidence is shot. 3 easier games to help sort that out.

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On 10/10/2019 at 23:10, Getintaethem said:

To be fair to Clarke I doubt even Pep or Klopp could do anything with the current Scotland squad.  Whole spine of the team is third rate.

This is the reality we are simply not very good 

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14 hours ago, maroonedinbriz said:

I've watched Scotland's centre half's,  Souter, Mckenna and I'll add Halkett. Just not good (strong) enough for international football.

It’s the biggest issue we have 

 

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