4-2-3-1

[David McCaig]

Surely this has to be our formation, week in, week out going forward.

 

When Morrison came on for Clare, it was fantastic to see the switch to 4231 and suddenly see 11 Hearts players all playing in their preferred positions.

 

With the solidity and class of Whelan + Damour/Irving in the centre we can get away with playing two genuine wingers and what a difference it made to suddenly have players on both the left and right hand side of pitch hugging the touch line.  Probably my biggest bug bear over the last couple of years has been the ploy of playing central midfielders like Arnaud Djoum/Sean Clare as wide players, when they clearly have no interest in playing that position.

 

I just hope Levein resists the temptation to tinker and realises that we have found a way of playing that will suit our extremely talented squad down to the ground.

[CloustonHMFC]

Just now, David McCaig said:

I just hope Levein resists the temptation to tinker and realises that we have found a way of playing that will suit our extremely talented squad down to the ground.

It would be silly not to start the team that played the last 30 minutes, on Wednesday. That was the best we’ve looked this season but we need play like that before going behind. 

[Big Moysey]

Agree David, probably the first time this year I have seen the team sheet announced and not been annoyed at constant tinkering, playing players out of positions and throwing random young starters in. Hope he sticks with the last 30 mins team/formation until the injuries start reducing.

[amadjambo]

2 minutes ago, Big Moysey said:

Agree David, probably the first time this year I have seen the team sheet announced and not been annoyed at constant tinkering, playing players out of positions and throwing random young starters in. Hope he sticks with the last 30 mins team/formation until the injuries start reducing.

I saw the team sheet and was reasonably happy. Then I saw how we lined up and couldn’t believe my eyes. Thankfully Hibs scored early enough for us to change it.

 

 

[Big Moysey]

1 minute ago, amadjambo said:

I saw the team sheet and was reasonably happy. Then I saw how we lined up and couldn’t believe my eyes. Thankfully Hibs scored early enough for us to change it.

 

 

yeah valid point their goal changed us for the better.

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, Big Moysey said:

yeah valid point their goal changed us for the better.

Yip, hopefully Aberdeen score first on Wednesday as well. 😎 Joking apart, we looked far better after Clare went off and we changed the shape. Not sure it was just the formation change that was important though. 

[Debut 4]

I think the lesson is tinker as you go if you need to. 

 

Not tinker before. 

 

Let the players grow in confidence playing in positions they are comfy in and find some form and understanding with team mates. 

[kila]

35 minutes ago, amadjambo said:

I saw the team sheet and was reasonably happy. Then I saw how we lined up and couldn’t believe my eyes. Thankfully Hibs scored early enough for us to change it.

 

[David McCaig]

48 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Yip, hopefully Aberdeen score first on Wednesday as well. 😎 Joking apart, we looked far better after Clare went off and we changed the shape. Not sure it was just the formation change that was important though. 

I think the shape change was key, we suddenly had width and options all over the pitch.  In the first half we were effectively asking Hickey to.cover the entire right hand side of the pitch single handed.

[qferryjam]

1 hour ago, David McCaig said:

Surely this has to be our formation, week in, week out going forward.

 

When Morrison came on for Clare, it was fantastic to see the switch to 4231 and suddenly see 11 Hearts players all playing in their preferred positions.

 

With the solidity and class of Whelan + Damour/Irving in the centre we can get away with playing two genuine wingers and what a difference it made to suddenly have players on both the left and right hand side of pitch hugging the touch line.  Probably my biggest bug bear over the last couple of years has been the ploy of playing central midfielders like Arnaud Djoum/Sean Clare as wide players, when they clearly have no interest in playing that position.

 

I just hope Levein resists the temptation to tinker and realises that we have found a way of playing that will suit our extremely talented squad down to the ground.

Said it over and over to different posters Djoum and Clare are decent footballers playing them out wide is a waste , but I wouldn’t hold your breath on the style or formation, CL can’t help but tinker with personnel and formation. He always worries about the opposition first regardless of their standard 

[TheBigO]

This might take a while, I know what I'm like...

 

Was thinking this morning about when (if!) Naismith is back.

 

4231 is our best formation, I'm pretty set on that other than the odd occasion (don't think yesterday's set up was as bad as some are making out - what changed after they scored was attitude as much as formation, and even then we were the better team with 3 at back.  Anyway...).

 

That gives me a problem: I want Naismith and Ryo both in the team.  But they're both the middle man of that three behind the CF.

 

I don't massively want either of them to play from wide as they'll drift in and I'd like to see us play with proper width.  I also want them to be in the thick of things, dictating for us, so want them in the middle.  They both can't play number 10 though.

 

So what do we do?  One of them has to play "out of position".  Getting that right will be key.

 

Options as I see them are:

 

Naismith plays CF, with Ryo nbr 10.  That sounds good, the only issue I can think is that it doesn't give us anyone else getting in the box.  My biggest/only issue yesterday was us not having enough players in the box when we were in good positions - so much made of our poor crossing, but they only ever really had one target, other than one occasion that Mulraney had four to aim for and messed it up.  Ryo is more the type to sit at the edge of the box, I think, so there would be huge onus on maybe Damour to get his late runs into the box right when we work it wide.  It also means Uche doesn't play, but then he could be the best impact sub you could think of, so that's not such an issue.

 

Naismith nbr 10, with Ryo out wide, Uche up top.  This maybe works better, but it limits Ryo, while also giving him some more defensive duties.  Of course he can drift inside, but I've found when we've tried to play like that with a drifter out on the left, it has basically left our LB with the whole side to deal with themselves both defensively and offensively.  Maybe we've just got that wrong, and this can work going forward, but it hasn't to date.

 

Interested to see how others would accommodate Ryo and Naismith in an XI.

[boag1874]

34 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

This might take a while, I know what I'm like...

 

Was thinking this morning about when (if!) Naismith is back.

 

4231 is our best formation, I'm pretty set on that other than the odd occasion (don't think yesterday's set up was as bad as some are making out - what changed after they scored was attitude as much as formation, and even then we were the better team with 3 at back.  Anyway...).

 

That gives me a problem: I want Naismith and Ryo both in the team.  But they're both the middle man of that three behind the CF.

 

I don't massively want either of them to play from wide as they'll drift in and I'd like to see us play with proper width.  I also want them to be in the thick of things, dictating for us, so want them in the middle.  They both can't play number 10 though.

 

So what do we do?  One of them has to play "out of position".  Getting that right will be key.

 

Options as I see them are:

 

Naismith plays CF, with Ryo nbr 10.  That sounds good, the only issue I can think is that it doesn't give us anyone else getting in the box.  My biggest/only issue yesterday was us not having enough players in the box when we were in good positions - so much made of our poor crossing, but they only ever really had one target, other than one occasion that Mulraney had four to aim for and messed it up.  Ryo is more the type to sit at the edge of the box, I think, so there would be huge onus on maybe Damour to get his late runs into the box right when we work it wide.  It also means Uche doesn't play, but then he could be the best impact sub you could think of, so that's not such an issue.

 

Naismith nbr 10, with Ryo out wide, Uche up top.  This maybe works better, but it limits Ryo, while also giving him some more defensive duties.  Of course he can drift inside, but I've found when we've tried to play like that with a drifter out on the left, it has basically left our LB with the whole side to deal with themselves both defensively and offensively.  Maybe we've just got that wrong, and this can work going forward, but it hasn't to date.

 

Interested to see how others would accommodate Ryo and Naismith in an XI.

Probably Ryo out wide but allow for some fluidity with him and Naismith switching it up every now and then to keep them guessing. Don’t have too much of a problem with players on the right cutting in because we have Smith bossing that side of the pitch anyway 

 

The real headache begins when Walker returns too

Edited September 23, 2019 by boag1874

[Cruyff Turn]

Best fit XI at the moment for me, 

 

                Pereira 

Smith Halkett Berra Hickey

          Whelan Damour 

Morrison Meshino Mulraney    

                   Uche

[TheBigO]

15 minutes ago, boag1874 said:

Probably Ryo out wide but allow for some fluidity with him and Naismith switching it up every now and then to keep them guessing. Don’t have too much of a problem with players on the right cutting in because we have Smith bossing that side of the pitch anyway 

 

The real headache begins when Walker returns too

Indeed.  If all fit come the turn of the year (a dream scenario, I know!), we have to choose 4 from Walker, Naismith, Washington, Ryo, Uche, Morrison, Mulraney, Clare.  We also have Keena in and around the squad, and MacDonald out on loan.  For the first time in years, our forward positions look sorted.  If we can't get a song out of that selection of players, we're in trouble!  Starts now.

[TheBigO]

15 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Best fit XI at the moment for me, 

 

                Pereira 

Smith Halkett Berra Hickey

          Whelan Damour 

Morrison Meshino Mulraney    

                   Uche

Agreed.  And only the goalie worries me there.  As I said above, getting players in the box is what matters playing with 2 real wingers.  They need to work on this.  Naismith will help with that.

[Absolute Scenes]

20 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Best fit XI at the moment for me, 

 

                Pereira 

Smith Halkett Berra Hickey

          Whelan Damour 

Morrison Meshino Mulraney    

                   Uche

 

that's it

Obviously with a fit Naismith for Morrison and Haring for Damour and I think that is our strongest possible 11

Souttar for Berra too

Edited September 23, 2019 by Absolute Scenes

[busby1985]

2 hours ago, DarioHMFC said:

It would be silly not to start the team that played the last 30 minutes, on Wednesday. That was the best we’ve looked this season but we need play like that before going behind. 

Agreed 

[TheBigO]

6 minutes ago, Absolute Scenes said:

 

that's it

Obviously with a fit Naismith for Morrison and Haring for Damour and I think that is our strongest possible 11

Souttar for Berra too

Haring is a great shout.  I like Damour and think he's going to be a good player for us, but Haring can be our all energy player - both boxes type thing.  So easy to forget some of our injured players!!

 

Any updates of late on big hairy Pete?

[Dusty]

Only concern would maybe be expecting too much of Morrison at the moment in terms of fitness - wouldn’t surprise me to see him on from the bench again on Wednesday.

But much better yesterday.

[Absolute Scenes]

57 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Haring is a great shout.  I like Damour and think he's going to be a good player for us, but Haring can be our all energy player - both boxes type thing.  So easy to forget some of our injured players!!

 

Any updates of late on big hairy Pete?

 

Aye Evening news article said he was close I think! Great news if so. Hope he isn't rushed back though

[WheatfieldWarrior]

1 hour ago, Dusty said:

Only concern would maybe be expecting too much of Morrison at the moment in terms of fitness - wouldn’t surprise me to see him on from the bench again on Wednesday.

But much better yesterday.

 

Doubt Morrison will be  starting next game - if he does well in training, we'll probably move him up to a 45 mins , then 70 and so on.

 

He's returning from a long term injury and have to take that into account.

Edited September 23, 2019 by WheatfieldWarrior

[Rods]

The only thing is with that formation Levein thinks Clare is the right man for the right sided role. We need cover in that position as Morrison will be inconsistent.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Suits us well. Hope we see it on Wednesday night, 3 supporting Uche M & Ms going to drive the opposition nuts

[WheatfieldWarrior]

4 hours ago, DarioHMFC said:

It would be silly not to start the team that played the last 30 minutes, on Wednesday. That was the best we’ve looked this season but we need play like that before going behind. 

 

I doubt Morrison's got the legs for that.  He'll get a better return playing the last 30 or 45 mins.

 

I think Irving and Damour will alternate for the next few games.  

 

 

[NB GIN]

2 hours ago, qferryjam said:

Said it over and over to different posters Djoum and Clare are decent footballers playing them out wide is a waste , but I wouldn’t hold your breath on the style or formation, CL can’t help but tinker with personnel and formation. He always worries about the opposition first regardless of their standard 

Spot on I think it’s his biggest problem just stick with it stop pissing about every week with players out of position and formations

 

 

 

 

[NB GIN]

1 hour ago, Absolute Scenes said:

 

that's it

Obviously with a fit Naismith for Morrison and Haring for Damour and I think that is our strongest possible 11

Souttar for Berra too

Walker for Mulraney 

 

[Cruyff Turn]

1 hour ago, Absolute Scenes said:

 

that's it

Obviously with a fit Naismith for Morrison and Haring for Damour and I think that is our strongest possible 11

Souttar for Berra too

 

1 hour ago, TheBigO said:

Haring is a great shout.  I like Damour and think he's going to be a good player for us, but Haring can be our all energy player - both boxes type thing.  So easy to forget some of our injured players!!

 

Any updates of late on big hairy Pete?

 

Big Pete and Whelan will be an indestructible midfield pairing. We know Pete likes to get forward and grab a goal, we could use his aerial prowess for crosses but it would allow Glenn to go forward and play a bit as well while Pete sits. Old fashioned midfield pairing.

[Cruyff Turn]

3 minutes ago, NB GIN said:

Walker for Mulraney 

 

Could see this in a month or so,

 

                 Pereira 

Smith Halkett Soapy Hickey 

          Whelan Haring

Mulraney  Walker  Meshino 

                 Naismith 

 

 

 

[David McCaig]

2 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Best fit XI at the moment for me, 

 

                Pereira 

Smith Halkett Berra Hickey

          Whelan Damour 

Morrison Meshino Mulraney    

                   Uche

Clearly our best XI by a country mile at present.

[Bull's-eye]

It's pointless worrying about formations after such a bad run.

You need to basically start again. Start at the back and become hard to beat then take it from there.

We're scoring goals just fine.

It's the defence that needs the work to give us a platform.

 

 

[David McCaig]

1 minute ago, Noah Claypole said:

It's pointless worrying about formations after such a bad run.

You need to basically start again. Start at the back and become hard to beat then take it from there.

We're scoring goals just fine.

It's the defence that needs the work to give us a platform.

 

 

The formation is everything.  As soon as Morrison came on, we had width and balance.  Both Smith and Hickey linked brilliantly with their respective wingers.

[Cruyff Turn]

29 minutes ago, Noah Claypole said:

It's pointless worrying about formations after such a bad run.

You need to basically start again. Start at the back and become hard to beat then take it from there.

We're scoring goals just fine.

It's the defence that needs the work to give us a platform.

 

 

I agree that our defence has been our main issue thus far. Had they defended how they should, we’d probably be between 5 and 7 points better off. 

[Cruyff Turn]

29 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

The formation is everything.  As soon as Morrison came on, we had width and balance.  Both Smith and Hickey linked brilliantly with their respective wingers.

Certainly in an attacking sense, yes, i’d agree.

 

Morrison certainly changed things yesterday, wee Meshino is probably at his best in that #10 position and obviously Mulraney is a decent left winger.

 

When Naisy and Walker are fit, i’d maybe put Meshino on the left, Mulraney on the right and let them come inside and create havoc. 

[Unknown user]

Funny thing is that when Morrison made his first stab down the wing I was thinking "please make the first cross a decent one, get a bit of confidence" but he completely overshot it and it ended up with Mulraney having to bring it under control on the opposite side.

 

I feared the worst at that point, but increased urgency through the team started to show their confidence in the shape, it really worked for us. 

[David McCaig]

9 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Funny thing is that when Morrison made his first stab down the wing I was thinking "please make the first cross a decent one, get a bit of confidence" but he completely overshot it and it ended up with Mulraney having to bring it under control on the opposite side.

 

I feared the worst at that point, but increased urgency through the team started to show their confidence in the shape, it really worked for us. 

The key thing here is that by having width on both sides of the pitch, we actually retained posession via Mulraney.

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

The key thing here is that by having width on both sides of the pitch, we actually retained posession via Mulraney.

I suppose we had width to a point, but Hickey and Mulraney were being asked to defend more as wing backs so they couldn't support attacks in the same way.

[David McCaig]

26 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I suppose we had width to a point, but Hickey and Mulraney were being asked to defend more as wing backs so they couldn't support attacks in the same way.

They also had no one to support them or link up with.

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

They also had no one to support them or link up with.

 

Yeah, I understand why managers like wing backs but I feel there's too much compromise myself

[jambocub]

4 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Best fit XI at the moment for me, 

 

                Pereira 

Smith Halkett Berra Hickey

          Whelan Damour 

Morrison Meshino Mulraney    

                   Uche

Pretty much this team with damour possibly replaced with Irvine 

[martoon]

It's the reluctance to play the right starting XI from the start that gets me. We start timidly, with the wrong team/set up, play poorly and fall behind. It's only later in the game, often when it's too late, that we end up with right team on the park. 

 

But no lesson is learned. Next game we go back to plan (a) which, time and again, is a failure.

 

So frustrating. Although I'm obviously chuffed that it came together yesterday. 

[Absolute Scenes]

4 hours ago, NB GIN said:

Walker for Mulraney 

 

 

Absolutely actually! totally forgot about walker

[Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine]

7 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Best fit XI at the moment for me, 

 

                Pereira 

Smith Halkett Berra Hickey

          Whelan Damour 

Morrison Meshino Mulraney    

                   Uche

 

I think Irving's showed more than Damour so far personally but appreciate the pedigree that Damour has, and I thought he was decent until taken off yesterday

[on&up2017]

5 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Could see this in a month or so,

 

                 Pereira 

Smith Halkett Soapy Hickey 

          Whelan Haring

Mulraney  Walker  Meshino 

                 Naismith 

 

 

 

THIS. I think if I were to swap my man bits for a vagina I’d have just squirted at the thought. Ooooft!