Does anyone still want Levein in charge?

[Cruyff Turn]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

The vast majority don’t, ours sent notes and messages down to both Neilson and Cathro because in his own words “he couldn’t help interfering”. He needs to go completely or will be accused of it again and get blamed for anything that goes wrong. Once again he said himself “that it would be hard for him to go back to being DoF after being manager”. A role with the academy, possibly to the end of his contract in June and then a partying of the ways.

I doubt that would be the case with an experienced manager tbf. 

[bistokid]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

The vast majority don’t, ours sent notes and messages down to both Neilson and Cathro because in his own words “he couldn’t help interfering”. He needs to go completely or will be accused of it again and get blamed for anything that goes wrong. Once again he said himself “that it would be hard for him to go back to being DoF after being manager”. A role with the academy, possibly to the end of his contract in June and then a partying of the ways.

 

And do we need Craig Levein specifically to identify players and handle contracts? Our recruitment has been all over the place - hardly something to write home about.  Why would anyone want that continued negativity for so little in return? A new Manager would then need to deal with media innuendo and the first sign of problems people would be back speculating that Levein is involved.  It's staggering.

[kila]

5 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

Not holding out much hope! Don’t we need macphee as an interpreter now?

 

Meshino will be learning English. He had a few moans at the referee yesterday, I hope he wasn't just shouting Japanese   We need to send him back down south after his loan with an accent.

 

Edited September 15, 2019 by kila

[dougal]

Levein should have been sacked last season. The cup final performance tainted a lot of fans opinion of him. He had ample time to get players in that he thought would do a job. On paper his signings don't look too bad, however he couldn't get them to gel at all during the league stage of the league cup and our performances were frankly abysmal. Those performances seemed to open more people's eyes that Levein wasn't the man we need in charge. There was a chance with still a month of the transfer window to replace him yet nothing was done. A league cup win against Motherwell again seemed to buy him more time but continually poor league performances culminating in us sitting bottom of the league have turned a large majority of the fans against him. It's time to make a change and the sooner the better otherwise we are most definitely going to be in a relegation dogfight. There's been pretty much nothing other than the league cup win against Motherwell to suggest he can do anything to change our fortunes.

 

His past as a player cannot and must not be used to give him more time. It's not just this season but almost 12 months of abysmal performances. How Budge can't see that is troublesome to say the least.  As has been said,  sack him and then follow the procedure that other clubs do and assess the candidates or request permission to speak to any managers we might be interested in hiring. 

 

As for his role as Director of Football, again get rid. He's not the only person who can perform that task and it is entirely possible that if he stays on in.that capacity it might put off suitable candidates from applying. On the subject of the reserves/u21s again he's not the only man that can do that job or do it well. There are other teams in the league that are bringing through youngsters so this also shouldn't be used as an excuse not to bin him.

 

Any other manager at any other club who had a years worth of results like he has would have been sacked long ago. The time has come to act for the good of our club.

[Pasquale for King]

17 minutes ago, Newton51 said:

 

Not holding out much hope! Don’t we need macphee as an interpreter now?

Meshino is learning English and it’s cheap enough to hire one, there’s loads going around.

https://edinburghtranslation.co.uk/

[Pasquale for King]

14 minutes ago, bistokid said:

 

And do we need Craig Levein specifically to identify players and handle contracts? Our recruitment has been all over the place - hardly something to write home about.  Why would anyone want that continued negativity for so little in return? A new Manager would then need to deal with media innuendo and the first sign of problems people would be back speculating that Levein is involved.  It's staggering.

Definitely, John Murray’s time is up too.

[dazinho88]

13 minutes ago, kila said:

 

Meshino will be learning English. He had a few moans at the referee yesterday, I hope he wasn't just shouting Japanese   We need to send him back down south after his loan with an accent.

 

 

Hope so 😂

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, dougal said:

Levein should have been sacked last season. The cup final performance tainted a lot of fans opinion of him. He had ample time to get players in that he thought would do a job. On paper his signings don't look too bad, however he couldn't get them to gel at all during the league stage of the league cup and our performances were frankly abysmal. Those performances seemed to open more people's eyes that Levein wasn't the man we need in charge. There was a chance with still a month of the transfer window to replace him yet nothing was done. A league cup win against Motherwell again seemed to buy him more time but continually poor league performances culminating in us sitting bottom of the league have turned a large majority of the fans against him. It's time to make a change and the sooner the better otherwise we are most definitely going to be in a relegation dogfight. There's been pretty much nothing other than the league cup win against Motherwell to suggest he can do anything to change our fortunes.

 

His past as a player cannot and must not be used to give him more time. It's not just this season but almost 12 months of abysmal performances. How Budge can't see that is troublesome to say the least.  As has been said,  sack him and then follow the procedure that other clubs do and assess the candidates or request permission to speak to any managers we might be interested in hiring. 

 

As for his role as Director of Football, again get rid. He's not the only person who can perform that task and it is entirely possible that if he stays on in.that capacity it might put off suitable candidates from applying. On the subject of the reserves/u21s again he's not the only man that can do that job or do it well. There are other teams in the league that are bringing through youngsters so this also shouldn't be used as an excuse not to bin him.

 

Any other manager at any other club who had a years worth of results like he has would have been sacked long ago. The time has come to act for the good of our club.

Good post.

[Rabgee]

4 hours ago, sadj said:

 

Its easy to respect peoples opinions without being a dick. It does get to a point where some you need to give it back to. A lot of the terminology thrown at either side is pathetic. Because someone doesn’t scream and shout they are a “fanboy” or a member of the “ldl” 😴 What pish was it yesterday “budge’s bitches” its pathetic that kind of stuff. Social Media for the most part is like that pissed up corner of the pub where people say things they wouldn’t normally as its amongst mates and they can get away with it.

 

 

Not read the context but in answer to Levein staying at the club if there was a way (assuming he didnt go back upstairs) then its not necessarily a bad thing as he has a lot of contacts , well respected and a lot of players have said he had an influence on their decision to join. That can’t be underestimated when we fish in the same pond as Aberdeen , Hibs the lower end of the Rangers budget and a lot of L1 and L2 teams. Is it ideal or would it work 🤷🏻‍♂️ Its not something that should be dismissed straight up though. 

If she feels she needs it she should employ Craig as a personal football consultant. She could then tap into his contacts and knowledge as required. 

[Newton51]

27 minutes ago, dougal said:

Levein should have been sacked last season. The cup final performance tainted a lot of fans opinion of him. He had ample time to get players in that he thought would do a job. On paper his signings don't look too bad, however he couldn't get them to gel at all during the league stage of the league cup and our performances were frankly abysmal. Those performances seemed to open more people's eyes that Levein wasn't the man we need in charge. There was a chance with still a month of the transfer window to replace him yet nothing was done. A league cup win against Motherwell again seemed to buy him more time but continually poor league performances culminating in us sitting bottom of the league have turned a large majority of the fans against him. It's time to make a change and the sooner the better otherwise we are most definitely going to be in a relegation dogfight. There's been pretty much nothing other than the league cup win against Motherwell to suggest he can do anything to change our fortunes.

 

His past as a player cannot and must not be used to give him more time. It's not just this season but almost 12 months of abysmal performances. How Budge can't see that is troublesome to say the least.  As has been said,  sack him and then follow the procedure that other clubs do and assess the candidates or request permission to speak to any managers we might be interested in hiring. 

 

As for his role as Director of Football, again get rid. He's not the only person who can perform that task and it is entirely possible that if he stays on in.that capacity it might put off suitable candidates from applying. On the subject of the reserves/u21s again he's not the only man that can do that job or do it well. There are other teams in the league that are bringing through youngsters so this also shouldn't be used as an excuse not to bin him.

 

Any other manager at any other club who had a years worth of results like he has would have been sacked long ago. The time has come to act for the good of our club.

 

Great post! I believe that the midfield has been the main problem. Missing haring in league cup group games and taking so long to sign cover for him and a replacement for djoum. Finally sign damour and been sub the past 2 games!

[Prof]

1 hour ago, karipidis said:

As usual, utter utter drivel.

👍👍

[smiler]

1 hour ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

I agree.

A complete slaver.

He should have been punted off this board after his Hibs shite. He got off far too lightly. 

[portobellojambo1]

2 hours ago, blairdin said:

 

I desperately don't want to get drawn on this, but I'm fairly sure the majority of the Academy staff like having Levein overseeing their work and driving the Academy forward. 

 

This is a question that before asking I know should probably be impossible to answer, but if the academy manager is performing his job to a very acceptable standard do you not think he would continue to do so if he was doing the same job but not reporting to Levein but instead direct to the football board. If you don't want to get drawn in on anything then there is no need to answer.

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Cruyff Turn said:

I doubt that would be the case with an experienced manager tbf. 

That’s why he doesn’t want one there, his choice was Daly so he could keep helping/interfering. A DoF has to interfere to an extent, help with recruitment, pre season tour, arrange friendlies and has to work closely with the manager/head coach. Is he capable of doing that without interfering in tactics, whilst someone else cleans up his mess.

[The Real Maroonblood]

33 minutes ago, smiler said:

He should have been punted off this board after his Hibs shite. He got off far too lightly. 

Exactly.

[redjambo]

We're all human. There are bound to be some folk who want him to stay. Our anger shouldn't be directed at them. They're fellow Hearts fans with a different opinion, that's all.

[OTT]

No. 

 

Look, I feel for the guy, but he's a loser. His approach to piss poor opposition is embarrassing. His coaching staff have no experience - someone in a previous thread has already made the point that Daly, Fox etc. have minimal coaching experience before coming in and plenty of coaches have to earn their stripes before getting a top job. 

 

He needs to do the decent thing, hold his hands up and say he needs to step down so we might retain some respect for him. At present he's bunkered himself down and isn't coming out for anyone. Putting everyone, Budge, the players, club staff, FOH and the fans in a horrible position. Its painfully selfish as we head towards another season we've got to write off because his footballing department is failing. 

[Randy Marsh]

6 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Exactly.

 

This.  The guys chat is absolutely stinking.  I feel like I'm being kicked in the testicles everytime I read one of his posts.

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, Randy Marsh said:

 

This.  The guys chat is absolutely stinking.  I feel like I'm being kicked in the testicles everytime I read one of his posts.

It is brutal.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

2 hours ago, XB52 said:

Guess I'm one of that generation a d I'll be sad to see him sacked but it has gone past the point of no return for him now. Some of the abuse on here is a joke but he surely should go now. Would prefer if he resigned to keep a bit of dignity. Having said all that, chances are the club won't take action so close to the derby and quarter final

I was happy to have Craig as DoF and although I wasn't keen to see him made manager, when it happened I put the doubts aside. I wanted him to do well but it has been a struggle for him and sad to see it happening to one of the best players in our history. 

I like you would hope he steps down with dignity and doesn't suffer personal abuse. Keep the speccy nonsense for the play ground! 

[merseyjambo]

21 minutes ago, OTT said:

No. 

 

Look, I feel for the guy, but he's a loser. His approach to piss poor opposition is embarrassing. His coaching staff have no experience - someone in a previous thread has already made the point that Daly, Fox etc. have minimal coaching experience before coming in and plenty of coaches have to earn their stripes before getting a top job. 

 

He needs to do the decent thing, hold his hands up and say he needs to step down so we might retain some respect for him. At present he's bunkered himself down and isn't coming out for anyone. Putting everyone, Budge, the players, club staff, FOH and the fans in a horrible position. Its painfully selfish as we head towards another season we've got to write off because his footballing department is failing. 

 

Fox tried coaching/management at Cowdenbeath and look what happened there

[sadj]

1 hour ago, Rabgee said:

If she feels she needs it she should employ Craig as a personal football consultant. She could then tap into his contacts and knowledge as required. 

 

That could also be achieved just from his directorship of the club. There is ways to do it of that there is no doubt. 👍🏻

[Cruyff Turn]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

That’s why he doesn’t want one there, his choice was Daly so he could keep helping/interfering. A DoF has to interfere to an extent, help with recruitment, pre season tour, arrange friendlies and has to work closely with the manager/head coach. Is he capable of doing that without interfering in tactics, whilst someone else cleans up his mess.

I disagree totally.

 

When he goes and it is “when”, it should not be “if”, I think he would be extremely unwise to try and force a Daly or boot room appointment, if he gets to stay as DoF. The fans won’t buy it.

 

I very much doubt he’d have any input if a Robinson or McInnes were manager for example, or someone of that ilk and that is what we need.

 

I’m not interested in this boot room stuff or bringing in a young untried Coach. That’s done and needs to end. It needs to be someone of of a high calibre and someone with experience. 

 

I totally believe we need a DoF. I personally believe that Levein is better at organising football clubs than he is managing football teams but I can entirely see why folk don’t want him here in any capacity.

 

He’d be doing a lot of the stuff the manager simply doesn’t have time for. As you say, arranging tours, friendlies, dealing with scouting, players that the managers asked for, agents & contracts, the Academy etc...That would be the limit of his remit. He’s actually well respected in the game and has a lot of contacts which are beneficial to us.

 

I have absolutely no doubt that if CL was DoF, any new manager would have the entire control of the first team, who he plays, who he signs, his tactics, subs the lot. 

Edited September 15, 2019 by Cruyff Turn

[lmc015]

Watching match of the day 2, Watford have a new manager, all the fans interviewed liked the old manager. The quote I liked was “the old manager was a lovely man however the board want success”. Thinking about us, same boat we all want to be pushing the old firm and getting into cup finals we need to get Levein in the stand and a quality championship manager in. 

[Pasquale for King]

2 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said:

I disagree totally.

 

When he goes and it is “when”, it should not be “if”, I think he would be extremely unwise to try and force a Daly or boot room appointment, if he gets to stay as DoF. The fans won’t buy it.

 

I very much doubt he’d have any input if a Robinson or McInnes were manager for example, or someone of that ilk and that is what we need.

 

I’m not interested in this boot room stuff or bringing in a young untried Coach. That’s done and needs to end. It needs to be someone of of a high calibre and someone with experience. 

 

I totally believe we need a DoF. I personally believe that Levein is better at organising football clubs than he is managing football teams but I can entirely see why folk don’t want him here in any capacity.

 

He’d be doing a lot of the stuff the manager simply doesn’t have time for. As you say, arranging tours, friendlies, dealing with scouting, players that the managers asked for, agents & contracts, the Academy etc...That would be the limit of his remit. He’s actually well respected in the game and has a lot of contacts which are beneficial to us.

 

I have absolutely no doubt that if CL was DoF, any new manager would have the entire control of the first team, who he plays, who he signs, his tactics, subs the lot. 

He would need to have that control, I just wonder if Levein can do that. As for being organised his boss said he isn’t, and he laughed it off. Would you do that to your boss in a public interview and face no consequences?

I think he has to go altogether to get the fans back onside and in going to games. We are 3k down on last seasons average crowd, that’s around 200k lost already. 

[Thomaso]

5 hours ago, bistokid said:

 

And do we need Craig Levein specifically to identify players and handle contracts? Our recruitment has been all over the place - hardly something to write home about.  Why would anyone want that continued negativity for so little in return? A new Manager would then need to deal with media innuendo and the first sign of problems people would be back speculating that Levein is involved.  It's staggering.

 

Some on here seem to be more interested in supporting Levein than supporting the Club!

Levein has totally failed, has lost the players and the fans, and is universally disliked in the game, not to mention the SFA.

He is a liability to HMFC and he has to go - we desperately need a fresh start and a new direction.

[scratchy]

Dreadful performances and results aside. 

To see a club legend become a pariah breaks my heart. Could've, should've been avoided. Given his personal circumstances, I wish he'd retired at the end of last season. Maybe in hindsight, and in light o what he's about to go through, he'll shortly feel the same. 

All things must come to an end Craig, and here we are. I fear it's going to get ugly though. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

Sadly no. And the longer he stays and delivers these results the harder it will be for him to stay in any capacity, which would be a shame for me. I was willing to give him at least a few more games as I genuinely thought the good manager that was within Craig Levein was going to appear but the manner of the Well defeat proves to me he can't motivate a team anymore.

 

My main doubt from the start with Levein was his motivation and a worry that manager who doesn't;t really want to be a manager won't be able to motivate players properly.

 

If we look at our last 3 bosses, Neilson really wanted to be a manager, Cathro didn't really - otherwise he would have taken a job much earlier - but was willing to give it a go and Levein had given up management admitting the DoF role was his dream job. Only one of those managers worked out. It was the same with McLeish and Scotland IMO.

 

It's not rocket science to think we need a very motivated and ambitious guy who wants to be a successful manager in charge of the first team. I honestly wish Neilson could be persuaded to come back.

[1874robbo]

2 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

Sadly no. And the longer he stays and delivers these results the harder it will be for him to stay in any capacity, which would be a shame for me. I was willing to give him at least a few more games as I genuinely thought the good manager that was within Craig Levein was going to appear but the manner of the Well defeat proves to me he can't motivate a team anymore.

 

My main doubt from the start with Levein was his motivation and a worry that manager who doesn't;t really want to be a manager won't be able to motivate players properly.

 

If we look at our last 3 bosses, Neilson really wanted to be a manager, Cathro didn't really - otherwise he would have taken a job much earlier - but was willing to give it a go and Levein had given up management admitting the DoF role was his dream job. Only one of those managers worked out. It was the same with McLeish and Scotland IMO.

 

It's not rocket science to think we need a very motivated and ambitious guy who wants to be a successful manager in charge of the first team. I honestly wish Neilson could be persuaded to come back.

Some good stuff there but Neilson back?

nah not for me.

[kingantti1874]

5 hours ago, scratchy said:

Dreadful performances and results aside. 

To see a club legend become a pariah breaks my heart. Could've, should've been avoided. Given his personal circumstances, I wish he'd retired at the end of last season. Maybe in hindsight, and in light o what he's about to go through, he'll shortly feel the same. 

All things must come to an end Craig, and here we are. I fear it's going to get ugly though. 

yep.. and I’ve said it before, if his broader role behind the scenes and supporting Ann is so important, he should never have been given a role with so high a degree of risk

[Hercules]

12 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said:

I disagree totally.

 

When he goes and it is “when”, it should not be “if”, I think he would be extremely unwise to try and force a Daly or boot room appointment, if he gets to stay as DoF. The fans won’t buy it.

 

I very much doubt he’d have any input if a Robinson or McInnes were manager for example, or someone of that ilk and that is what we need.

 

I’m not interested in this boot room stuff or bringing in a young untried Coach. That’s done and needs to end. It needs to be someone of of a high calibre and someone with experience. 

 

I totally believe we need a DoF. I personally believe that Levein is better at organising football clubs than he is managing football teams but I can entirely see why folk don’t want him here in any capacity.

 

He’d be doing a lot of the stuff the manager simply doesn’t have time for. As you say, arranging tours, friendlies, dealing with scouting, players that the managers asked for, agents & contracts, the Academy etc...That would be the limit of his remit. He’s actually well respected in the game and has a lot of contacts which are beneficial to us.

 

I have absolutely no doubt that if CL was DoF, any new manager would have the entire control of the first team, who he plays, who he signs, his tactics, subs the lot. 

I totally disagree. He can’t help himself. The week of the Partick away game when Neilson was in charge (1-0 us) he categorically denied he was involved with first team matters. HT whistle goes, he clambers over the seats in the stand and follows Neilson into the changing rooms. Full view of everyone. I’m DOF. I do what I want. 

[Hearts1975]

On 16/09/2019 at 00:57, westbow said:

Good post, but I would argue nobody has started 100% in either camp apart from those with a gripe. I would say that previously those wanting Levein to stay or go were ambivalent not dogmatic.

 

We have had a couple of purple patches in the league together with last years (long awaited) cup runs. Finally beating Hibs away and Celtic at home has showed progress. Similarly, losing heavily to teams we should be beating counters that. Recruitment has been between outstanding and downright abysmal.

 

However the main factor is this run of results.

 

I would not 100% say CL is a bad or good manager but he has got himself into a tailspin that I cannot see him getting out of.

 

 

 

 

Reasoned comments. I just don’t know if the management side has passed him by 

 

it’s not good times atm and any decision made in business comes with an element of “risk” but the real risk for me is continuing down the same path as the last 5 years.

 

As much as I now don’t want levein at the club moving forward I take no satisfaction whatsoever in seeing some of the vitriol said or posted against him on social media but this could spiral out of control and get worse as far as I am concerned and I just hope that AB is aware of this. She holds the cards in terms of what happens next 

 

This can’t be good for Craig leveins own health or wellbeing either, and it’s not in his best interests to continue as much as it isnt in the best interests of the football club either. He probably won’t  see it like this which is part of the problem.

[tcjambo]

I think he will go (at least as manager) but to answer the original question I would like to have seen him get to the end of October to see if things improve but things have just become too poisonous now. For his own sake I think he needs to consider if it is worth damaging his health and the high regard many of us hold him in to continue.

 

Coud cost the club a fortune if both he and the coaching staff leave though. I trust Ann Budge to make the right decision on behalf of the club either way.

[Sagan]

Wins against the top six. 

 

10 wins, 6 draws, 27 defeats against the five other sides who finished in the top six last season.

[jake]

22 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Well. 

 

If it's his team guys like Souttar, Naismith, Damour, Whelan, Washington to name a few could become unhappy. 

 

If the whole coaching team goes, guys like Meshino for example could become unhappy if one of the reasons here is here is Austin. 

 

I have no real knowledge of CL's role in the other areas, how will the operations and staff react to him leaving? 

The youth team, the parents, the agents 

 

We could employ a worse manager. 

We might not attract the folk we want. 

 

 

All  I said was that sacking CL fixes nothing, it could make things worse. 

 

Getting a plan in place to make sure it doesn't is far more important that simply sacking CL, then the next day everything is sorted and better. 

 

It would just be the start of getting things sorted and the timing, September is hardly ideal. 

 

 

Worse than 3 wins in 33 ?

 

I doubt it.

[jake]

21 hours ago, smiler said:

He should have been punted off this board after his Hibs shite. He got off far too lightly. 

😄