Gambo Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Whilst JKB seems to be in agreement that Levein needs to be removed from the managers job, there is a split as to wether he should keep his D.o.F. role (or any role) or completely leave the club. I will list my arguments for him leaving completely, please feel free to add to that list or give reasons for him being kept on. Him staying in the D.o.F. role (or similar) will cause division amongst the support, something the club and a new manager does not need at this time. No doubt some will argue about the great job he has done at the Academy, what exactly is that, do Roger Arnott and the Academy coaches not get some credit for this, will it all fall to pieces with no Levein? Is he out on the training park coaching the laddies, making them better OR does he just sign off on who the coaches rate. I'm not saying he does nothing 're the Academy, but some seem to think the Academy is him. Remember the club is in a stable position to let the Academy prosper, the same could not be said for the end of the Romanov era but players still came through. I don't think the Academy is a good enough reason for him to be kept on imo. His role as D.o.F. when it comes to the first team has not been great either, Cathro, Levein himself taking over, 6th place finishes, 3 year deals for folk who don't play, first team coaches etc. What is it Levein brings to the table that he gets to keep the D.o.F. role or any role at the club as I'm not reading/hearing any except he should move upstais/He is the Academy? Fire away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Its healthy to have a change. Same applies to Ann Budge. When that is precisely remains to be seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamhammer Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Any promotion from within with him as DOF is doomed unless instantly successful. I believed his place was to continue the great work developing the academy however what if a new manager had different ideas? Should a new manager be told, “This is how the academy, colts, reserves play. This is how your first team should play” Reckon a clean break is best for all concerned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Fox Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Must stay as DoF - any new coach will need the help, support and guidance of an experienced knowledgeable professional that knows how football works! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch41 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Gambo said: Whilst JKB seems to be in agreement that Levein needs to be removed from the managers job, there is a split as to wether he should keep his D.o.F. role (or any role) or completely leave the club. I will list my arguments for him leaving completely, please feel free to add to that list or give reasons for him being kept on. Him staying in the D.o.F. role (or similar) will cause division amongst the support, something the club and a new manager does not need at this time. No doubt some will argue about the great job he has done at the Academy, what exactly is that, do Roger Arnott and the Academy coaches not get some credit for this, will it all fall to pieces with no Levein? Is he out on the training park coaching the laddies, making them better OR does he just sign off on who the coaches rate. I'm not saying he does nothing 're the Academy, but some seem to think the Academy is him. Remember the club is in a stable position to let the Academy prosper, the same could not be said for the end of the Romanov era but players still came through. I don't think the Academy is a good enough reason for him to be kept on imo. His role as D.o.F. when it comes to the first team has not been great either, Cathro, Levein himself taking over, 6th place finishes, 3 year deals for folk who don't play, first team coaches etc. What is it Levein brings to the table that he gets to keep the D.o.F. role or any role at the club as I'm not reading/hearing any except he should move upstais/He is the Academy? Fire away. When Levein is sacked i can't see how he could return to being DOF full time as he would be a man that has lost his credibility and no new manager would want him looking over his shoulder commenting on his actions within the club. When Levein moved into the managers job after Cathro he was asked at an interview that if he one day got sacked would he move back to DOF and he said no he wouldn't so he himself must know it would be the wrong thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupid Sexy Flanders Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 I think we've got a really decent squad of players at the moment, and while CL isn't getting the best out of them, he deserves credit for having signed them in the first place. I'd have no problem with him returning to a DOF role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Jambo-Fox said: Must stay as DoF - any new coach will need the help, support and guidance of an experienced knowledgeable professional that knows how football works! So we’re not going to appoint an experienced, knowledgable, professional new head coach then????🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VALDOS' Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 With influence he has had at the club and with little success if being cut throat about it, then it's beyond reason for him to stay. It would have a negative effect in any new manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Loblaw Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Has to a clean break if he goes IMO. Or at least have no involvement with the first team, if he was willing to take an academy only role then fair enough. I just don't see how we can have a manager answering to someone who has failed miserably in the role themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOak88 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said: Must stay as DoF - any new coach will need the help, support and guidance of an experienced knowledgeable professional that knows how football works! How about we hire a manager who is an experienced knowledgeable professional who knows how football work. Mind blown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Laff Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Keep him in a good capacity but he shouldn’t have any influence on who the next head coach is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Laff Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Just now, TheOak88 said: How about we hire a manager who is an experienced knowledgeable professional who knows how football work. Mind blown. Definitely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOak88 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Stupid Sexy Flanders said: I think we've got a really decent squad of players at the moment, and while CL isn't getting the best out of them, he deserves credit for having signed them in the first place. I'd have no problem with him returning to a DOF role. Throw enough darts at a dart board and you will hit the bullseye once or twice. If if you look across his signing record the success rate is below 50% that is not acceptable. Edited September 3, 2019 by TheOak88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flogel14 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 I would put a case forward for him to remain as DOF as most other areas of the "footballing department" appear to be performing well besides the first team. Additionally most would surely agree that the first team squad has the personnel to be able to challenge at the top end of the league. Both of these have been achieved under his leadership as DOF and it would seem to me a knee-jerk reaction to get rid of him completely. Any incoming new manager should be able to bring in his own team of coaches, as I believe our current lot are a key part of the problem, but the days of a manager coming in and overhauling the entire football strategy at the club are well and truly gone aka Alex Ferguson at Man Utd. If that were the case we'd be changing our strategy every couple of years at the most every time a manager fails and is sacked or is a success and moves on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupid Sexy Flanders Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 minute ago, TheOak88 said: Throw enough darts at a dart board and you will hit the bullseye once or twice. If if you look across his signing record the success rate is below 50% that is not acceptable. It's a matter of opinion and there's been one or two howlers certainly but IMO more than half of his signings have been decent. The squad we've got now is pretty good I'd say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flogel14 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, TheOak88 said: Throw enough darts a dart board and you will hit the bullseye once or twice. If if you look across his signing record the success rate is below 50% that is not acceptable. While I agree he's made some big errors in the transfer market, most of them he's got rid of quite quickly. I think you'll find few clubs with particularly high success rates with transfers these days, part of the reason so many have large squads, increase in player loans etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Muddie Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 11 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said: Must stay as DoF - any new coach will need the help, support and guidance of an experienced knowledgeable professional that knows how football works! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupid Sexy Flanders Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 minute ago, farin said: We managed to win trophy’s without a DoF. This experiment has failed imo & should be ripped up. No experienced manager worth his salt will allow levein as DoF to pick the players he can put into any team. He needs complete autonomy to bring in his own squad. You can’t have a failed manager pulling the strings behind the scenes like this. It’s a recipe for disaster, complete break with a new manager being in complete control .. That depends on whether you believe that's actually the case. Do you seriously believe CL was picking the team for Neilson and Cathro? I don't. What coach is going to put his own career and reputation on the line knowing that someone else is actually doing his job? None, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionN Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Clean break required. We will end up with the same old stories that he is meddling in the team, notes getting past down to the manager etc. Regardless of who becomes the new manager, people will blame Levein if he is still in and around the first team so due to that he has to go 100%. Let the new manager come in and have a clean slate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Yes, has to be a clean slate. New guy in with his pick of who backs him up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merrymac Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 15 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said: Must stay as DoF - any new coach will need the help, support and guidance of an experienced knowledgeable professional that knows how football works! But just cant get it across to his coaching staff or players - shame really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gorgie Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 It's simply impossible for him to be sacked as manager then still have a say on what happens with the first team, the whole situation is a complete shambles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkDevriesScores4 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Does anyone actually genuinely believe that Craig has done a good job with the youth set up? The reason I ask is we appear to have made zero money from any youth players in as long as I can remember and only a handful have made the first team for any length of time and of that few, a couple at best have made an impact. Not trying to be harsh but we’ve invested a lot of money into the youth set up and so far we have had little return. Happy to be told otherwise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychedelicropcircle Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 One wage is cheaper than two.....and seen as he’s a shite manager.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_the_legend Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 17 minutes ago, Stupid Sexy Flanders said: It's a matter of opinion and there's been one or two howlers certainly but IMO more than half of his signings have been decent. The squad we've got now is pretty good I'd say. The squad that’s bottom of the league? That one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxteth O'Grady Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 24 minutes ago, Stupid Sexy Flanders said: I think we've got a really decent squad of players at the moment, and while CL isn't getting the best out of them, he deserves credit for having signed them in the first place. I'd have no problem with him returning to a DOF role. We have a lot of bang average players who don’t seem motivated and we have some good players who are past their best and injury prone. We don’t have anyone who scores regularly enough and our goalkeeping situation is a joke. It’s a shambles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merrymac Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 How about DOEEF. Director of everything except football - that should keep him busy and out of the way of a new manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolcross lad Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 No need for DOF at a club our size.I dont know his salary.Circa £150000 maybe.Money better spent elsewhere.We dont owe Craig anything.Arnott is head of academy.We have Scouts in place.We have a Loans manager.We have Rankin in charge of youths.Kirk in charge of the reserves.Medical Physio team.A new manager will have his own ideas and will almost certainly not want Levein peering over his shoulder.With good communication and goodwill things should work fine. Of course it will cost to pay him off but I see no point in him hanging around.I dont think he would want that anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busby1985 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 He’s built the foundations and supplied a stable footing for any new person coming in. He’s been involved with the club since admin and done a great job off the field. I’d be wanting the club to explore the possibilities of recruiting a new DoF and a new manager with a fresh outlook on where the club should be heading. Levein going back to DoF changes nothing. He could realistically head up the academy if the club really didn’t want him cut from the club totally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavropol Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 If we had won the cup final do you think he would have gone back to DOF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraggle Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 If he goes, then he goes completely imo. If he stays the shadow continues to linger over everything, even if he is totally hands off from the first team, coaching, etc. Same goes for the backroom team, they have to go too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmreido Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Remember him in the stand, passing notes to Jon Daly, to then take to Cathro in the dugout, think at pittodrie.🤔 He wouldn't be able to stop himself interfering. He needs to go completely.imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 40 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said: Must stay as DoF - any new coach will need the help, support and guidance of an experienced knowledgeable professional that knows how football works! Not sure if you are being sarcastic. Wouldn't it be a good idea to appoint= a manager/head coach who is an experienced knowledgeable professional who knows how football works. Oh of course you are being sarcastic. Unless Cathro or McPhee are the models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheetah Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 FOR AGAINST Nowt Everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTS1874 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 I would prefer him to leave the club permanently, I also think the club doesn’t need a DOF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 He clearly has very good contacts, a strong reputation and bar his stubborn plan to create the boot room (filled with incompetence), the foundation he has helped to lay, and his commitment to not only the academies but the performance school, is way ahead of most other clubs in the country. His loyalty to muppets is letting him down, bring back the ******* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irufushi Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Overall the DOF role has been a shambles. Scrap it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 And why the sentimental obsession with Levein. Countless bigger, more loyal and more successful Hearts men have been kicked out unceremoniously for less than Levein's failures. If the Academy is really in great shape after his five years (for me the jury is still out) than it should continue to prosper if Levein leaves, as presumably it will have to do sooner or later. The prospects of getting the best man for the manager/head coach role will be greatly reduced if not eliminated if Levein remains in a powerful and influential position as DoF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romulus Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, Irufushi said: Overall the DOF role has been a shambles. Scrap it. Correct. Plus if he does move back upstairs it proves he is untouchable under this regime. A football club our size does not need a director of football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut The Crap Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 6 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: And why the sentimental obsession with Levein. Countless bigger, more loyal and more successful Hearts men have been kicked out unceremoniously for less than Levein's failures. If the Academy is really in great shape after his five years (for me the jury is still out) than it should continue to prosper if Levein leaves, as presumably it will have to do sooner or later. The prospects of getting the best man for the manager/head coach role will be greatly reduced if not eliminated if Levein remains in a powerful and influential position as DoF. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydug Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 12 minutes ago, busby1985 said: He’s built the foundations and supplied a stable footing for any new person coming in. He’s been involved with the club since admin and done a great job off the field. I’d be wanting the club to explore the possibilities of recruiting a new DoF and a new manager with a fresh outlook on where the club should be heading. Levein going back to DoF changes nothing. He could realistically head up the academy if the club really didn’t want him cut from the club totally. He'd still be a director anyway. I'd do away with the DOF role and ask CL to stay on the board in an advisory role. I'd push the boat out to get a top notch manager someone like O'Neil or Moyes or an up and coming manager from England or abroad. The present coaching team would just have to take their chances to see if the new boss wants to keep them I wouldn't sack them that would be for the new boss to decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Burgundy Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 There are no positives for him staying on in any capacity IMO. It would definitely deter some managers from being interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Treasurer Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 hour ago, mitch41 said: When Levein is sacked i can't see how he could return to being DOF full time as he would be a man that has lost his credibility and no new manager would want him looking over his shoulder commenting on his actions within the club. When Levein moved into the managers job after Cathro he was asked at an interview that if he one day got sacked would he move back to DOF and he said no he wouldn't so he himself must know it would be the wrong thing to do. People move jobs within the same organisation all the time, don't see why the same can't happen at a football club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Treasurer Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 hour ago, farin said: We managed to win trophy’s without a DoF. This experiment has failed imo & should be ripped up. No experienced manager worth his salt will allow levein as DoF to pick the players he can put into any team. He needs complete autonomy to bring in his own squad. You can’t have a failed manager pulling the strings behind the scenes like this. It’s a recipe for disaster, complete break with a new manager being in complete control .. Your post suggests you don't have any idea about what is involved in the DoF role Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stavropol Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 9 minutes ago, luckydug said: He'd still be a director anyway. I'd do away with the DOF role and ask CL to stay on the board in an advisory role. I'd push the boat out to get a top notch manager someone like O'Neil or Moyes or an up and coming manager from England or abroad. The present coaching team would just have to take their chances to see if the new boss wants to keep them I wouldn't sack them that would be for the new boss to decide. Guus Hiddink did Chelsea and Russia jobs together. O'Neill could surely do both and has his assistant already there. O'Neill earns nearly a million a year so could have his pick of any assistant and has McPhee sitting beside him on the bench and is top of a group with Germany and Holland in it. McPhee clearly really respected by O'Neill (and Hertz players) and vice-versa. Chelsea and Russia a bit bigger than Hetz and Northern Ireland! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_the_legend Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 10 minutes ago, The Treasurer said: People move jobs within the same organisation all the time, don't see why the same can't happen at a football club People who fail at their job are then just moved to a new job? I’ve never seen that, if you’re **** at your job you get sacked. It’s that simple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamhammer Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, Stavropol said: Guus Hiddink did Chelsea and Russia jobs together. O'Neill could surely do both and has his assistant already there. O'Neill earns nearly a million a year so could have his pick of any assistant and has McPhee sitting beside him on the bench and is top of a group with Germany and Holland in it. McPhee clearly really respected by O'Neill (and Hertz players) and vice-versa. Chelsea and Russia a bit bigger than Hetz and Northern Ireland! My only issue with Austin is he’s been sitting beside CL through this dreadful run. What’s he been doing? Im not arguing against O Neill BTW. Think he’d be decent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Treasurer Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said: People who fail at their job are then just moved to a new job? I’ve never seen that, if you’re **** at your job you get sacked. It’s that simple You've obviously never worked for the civil service Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 minute ago, The Treasurer said: You've obviously never worked for the civil service Strollers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said: People who fail at their job are then just moved to a new job? I’ve never seen that, if you’re **** at your job you get sacked. It’s that simple Boy at my work, every time he f**ks up, he moves up the ladder, very nearly at the top now. Incredible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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