Rangers Ordered to Close Part of Ibrox v Legia

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, RobNox said:

 

From Huns Den...

 

This is the annoying thing if we had kept it for the domestic games everything would have been fine ... Europe is majority catholic and these songs will always be seen differently there  and it just takes timothy to keep pointing for there to be a problem

 

I fully expect they will continue to belt out the sectarian stuff with great gusto in domestic games

Utter scumbags.

[Biguche]

1 hour ago, Tommy Brown said:

In a naive sense you may be right.

 

But in a pathetic Scotland sense, it is beyond stupid not to see the implications.

 

Sectarianism in Scotland is our national disgrace, please refrain from your senseless comments.

They are not smart and not in the slightest bit funny.

 

Are you not being discriminatory by wanting to prevent them from celebrating their protestant identity? I'm not trying to be funny by the way, I just don't agree that protestant = anti Catholic which is what a lot of the faux outrage about the orange tops is about.

 

Sectarianism isn't Scotland's national disgrace. I'd say there's very little sectarian crime in Scotland and it's pretty much restricted to some naughty songs (and the odd hanging effigy) at football matches from fans of two Glasgow clubs (and occasionally two Edinburgh clubs).

[trotter]

6 minutes ago, Biguche said:

 

Are you not being discriminatory by wanting to prevent them from celebrating their protestant identity? I'm not trying to be funny by the way, I just don't agree that protestant = anti Catholic which is what a lot of the faux outrage about the orange tops is about.

 

Sectarianism isn't Scotland's national disgrace. I'd say there's very little sectarian crime in Scotland and it's pretty much restricted to some naughty songs (and the odd hanging effigy) at football matches from fans of two Glasgow clubs (and occasionally two Edinburgh clubs).

I agree with you to a certain extent. But Shirley if it's just 'naughty songs' with no deeper reason then the supporters of all clubs who partake can switch to other ones?

[Biguche]

Just now, trotter said:

I agree with you to a certain extent. But Shirley if it's just 'naughty songs' with no deeper reason then the supporters of all clubs who partake can switch to other ones?

 

With any sense they will. So... probably not

[RobNox]

Nice to see some good intelligent debate over there....

.  

kaiser1041

  On 23/08/2019 at 13:48, mitre_mouldmaster said:

If you cannot stop singing about Fenian's at Rangers games, then stop  going.

If you cannot stop this sectarian shite that has no relevance to us, then stay away, otherwise you are just an enemy of the club.

The club have repeatedly asked you to stop, yet you have not and now we are being hit financially and reputationaly  for your actions.

No-one gives a shit about your stupid logic about why calling someone a 'fenian *******' is not sectarian. You clearly dont understand how language works because you are too ****ing thick.

**** off and support someone else because this club does not want you.

Shut up ya ****ing [filter edit] **

enemies to our club ffs get a grip you **** off and find a transgender basketball team full of albinos ya poofy prick

 

 

** please note, the filter edit was applied by JKB, the actual word used on Bears Den is a derogatory term for someone who suffers from Down's Syndrome.  JKB also applied the asterisks to the numerous instances of the f-word that are published uncensored on Bears Den.

Edited August 24, 2019 by RobNox

[DETTY29]

Imagine just going to a game of football and supporting your team.....taking the mickey out of your rivals......not indulging in racist, bigoted, sectarian behaviour.... and having a broad enough mind to think for yourself....

[DETTY29]

1 hour ago, Zlatanable said:

Exactly. Rangers FC are now, and always have been, about respect. 

 

All self respect and self standards.

 

Albeit all lower than a snake's belly.

[Kiwidoug]

1 hour ago, rory78 said:

The SFA will never do anything about this ,Celtic and Rangers need it or they'd have nothing to sing about each week - outside both grounds every week the merchandise is all for the bigots so why would they stop it??

Is that right?  Sectarian merchandise?  I honestly didnt know that.

 

Wonder if there will be a page in their next programme advising that sectarianism will no longer be tolerated.  Offenders will be thrown out and banned for a year.

 

If Gerard's words are to mean anything  surely they need to be matched by action like this.

 

Remember reading on here that when Celtic used Hampden Park for a while, their Chairman complained along the lines of "they wouldnae let us fly oor flags so they wouldnae".

[Marooon!]

We can't exactly point and laugh cause we have a section that closes for certain games... 

[Rocky jamboa]

I'm sure it's been said already but UEFA have done more in this one reaction than the GFA... sorry SFA/SFL have done in my 40 years watching scottish football

[Blackford Hearts]

5 hours ago, The Spy Who Loved Me said:

 

No reason, however the club had an auction before Remembrance Day on their shirts and gave their proceeds away to the Legion.

 

On a side note, I do remember far back in 2009 when Liverpool and Manchester United were the only top flight not to wear a poppy on their shirt, again not sure why I’m afraid....

 

 

Thanks for answering 👍

[sac]

Wonder what the GFA punishment will be after the party songs are aired at the OF game next week. 

[fila]

It will be normal service for both sides of the OF at todays games, the governace of the game in Scotland is weak as p*sh , and I put us in that as well. Ann Budge whilst content with making our ground our a family friendly stadium, she is unwilling to tackle either sides of the OF. Until that happens then nothing changes.

[RobNox]

41 minutes ago, Marooon! said:

We can't exactly point and laugh cause we have a section that closes for certain games... 

 

But we choose to close that section, it isn't imposed on us.  We are taking proactive action to address an issue, rather than turning a blind eye to it.

[RobNox]

16 minutes ago, fila said:

It will be normal service for both sides of the OF at todays games, the governace of the game in Scotland is weak as p*sh , and I put us in that as well. Ann Budge whilst content with making our ground our a family friendly stadium, she is unwilling to tackle either sides of the OF. Until that happens then nothing changes.

 

We can hardly call out the OF for sectarian or other anti-social behaviour if we haven't got our own house in order, that would smack of hypocrisy, and I'm sure Ann Budge is well aware of that.  If we are able to clean up our own act, then we'll be in a better position to address the behaviour of opposition fans.  

[fila]

7 hours ago, RobNox said:

 

We can hardly call out the OF for sectarian or other anti-social behaviour if we haven't got our own house in order, that would smack of hypocrisy, and I'm sure Ann Budge is well aware of that.  If we are able to clean up our own act, then we'll be in a better position to address the behaviour of opposition fans.  

 

No chance, we should be calling out all instances, by not doing do smacks of hypocrisy . So in your world , let the away fans do as they do until we have a sanitised home support that conforms with AB ?

[trotter]

2 minutes ago, fila said:

 

No chance, we should be calling out all instances, by not doing do smacks of hypocrisy . So in your world , let the away fans do as they do until we have a sanitised home support that conforms with AB ?

Firstly I take issue with 'conforms with AB'. How about 'conforms with a civilized modern society'??

 

I agree with your first point though, but would you not agree that any complaints raised by us would have more gravitas if we were able to show that we had our own house in order? Otherwise, it just smacks of the whataboutery we accuse those arseholes of.

[fila]

Just now, trotter said:

Firstly I take issue with 'conforms with AB'. How about 'conforms with a civilized modern society'??

 

I agree with your first point though, but would you not agree that any complaints raised by us would have more gravitas if we were able to show that we had our own house in order? Otherwise, it just smacks of the whataboutery we accuse those arseholes of.

AB,currently calls the shots so that’s why I said conforms with her, she hasn’t consulted any supporters groups ( that I’m aware of) 

and again agree that it should conform with a civilised modern society, that’s why we should clamp down with the visiting OF fans . 

[buzz]

12 hours ago, Biguche said:

The Dutch thing is a lot of pish but it's not sectarian to bring out an orange top because of their link to Protestantism

He wasn’t saying it’s sectarian to bring out an orange strip, he was saying if they are serious about stopping sectarianism then it’s maybe not the best way of going about it.

[Jambojay84]

I think uefa should have delegates at every single top flight game involving the clubs who’s fans indulge in this pish. £10.000 fine every time  one of the horrible songs are sung. Also think broadcasters need to front up to this issue as well, it boils my blood when you have a game on, hear a certain song start then it’s instantly turned down like the whole stadium has lost it’s voice. 

Commentary teams could help as well and call it out when they hear it, unfortunately they don’t. I don’t want an apology for hearing that a certain player is a or arsehole whilst they turn off the really nasty stuff. 

[Spellczech]

12 hours ago, Biguche said:

The Dutch thing is a lot of pish but it's not sectarian to bring out an orange top because of their link to Protestantism

So if the official reason is "pish", then what was their true reason? Genuinely interested to see how it can possibly be explained / phrased without sounding as if it was playing up to their sectarian element... (If you can do it we can probably get you a job in the Rangers PR department)

Edited August 25, 2019 by Spellczech

[Brighton Jambo]

11 hours ago, Biguche said:

 

Are you not being discriminatory by wanting to prevent them from celebrating their protestant identity? I'm not trying to be funny by the way, I just don't agree that protestant = anti Catholic which is what a lot of the faux outrage about the orange tops is about.

 

Sectarianism isn't Scotland's national disgrace. I'd say there's very little sectarian crime in Scotland and it's pretty much restricted to some naughty songs (and the odd hanging effigy) at football matches from fans of two Glasgow clubs (and occasionally two Edinburgh clubs).

I honestly can’t tell if this is serious or sarcastic.  If serious then you are totally wrong, sectarianism is 100% Scotland shame and for you to suggest it’s limited to a few songs is mind boggling.  

 

You honestly believe that rangers wearing an orange top is them ‘celebrating’ the Protestant background and isn’t anti catholic at the same time, really?  Honestly?

 

apologies that this reply is so direct but people like you are what holds this country back, you are in total denial about the scale of the problem.

[Boab]

49 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I honestly can’t tell if this is serious or sarcastic.  If serious then you are totally wrong, sectarianism is 100% Scotland shame and for you to suggest it’s limited to a few songs is mind boggling.  

 

You honestly believe that rangers wearing an orange top is them ‘celebrating’ the Protestant background and isn’t anti catholic at the same time, really?  Honestly?

 

apologies that this reply is so direct but people like you are what holds this country back, you are in total denial about the scale of the problem.

 What is the scale of the problem ?

[LeylandJambo]

Make the both of them play a few games behind closed doors. That way nobody has to listen to the bile they they spout. 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

10 hours ago, Marooon! said:

We can't exactly point and laugh cause we have a section that closes for certain games... 

 

Talk about missing the point 

 

Ann Budge has recognised and admitted

that we have genuine minority’s problem and has voluntarily taken action on the areas of the ground where, on balance,

the worst incidents happen.

 

When people on this thread slag Budge or her stance yet lay into Rangers they are displaying astonishing hypocrisy.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Tom Hardy’s Dug

[jumpship]

Will be interesting to see if the Green brigade hold any display today. Maybe mock the SFA/SPFL, slang off the newco fans.. 

 

Could get tasty... 

[the general]

Are BT muting the Rangers fans singing today?

[Biguche]

2 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I honestly can’t tell if this is serious or sarcastic.  If serious then you are totally wrong, sectarianism is 100% Scotland shame and for you to suggest it’s limited to a few songs is mind boggling.  

 

You honestly believe that rangers wearing an orange top is them ‘celebrating’ the Protestant background and isn’t anti catholic at the same time, really?  Honestly?

 

apologies that this reply is so direct but people like you are what holds this country back, you are in total denial about the scale of the problem.

 

Sorry but how can you just claim that their orange strip is "anti-catholic"? Based on what? 

 

The scale of the problem is some chanting/flags. What do you think it is?

[Footballfirst]

If you are interested in how the Courts view the "Famine Song", FTP and F***** B******* in a football context, then read the following judgement by Lord Carloway (now the Lord President) in an appeal to the High Court.  It's an appeal by a Rangers fan convicted at Kilmarnock Sheriff Court of a "racially aggravated" Breach of the Peace at a Kilmarnock v Rangers game and sentenced to 18 months probation and a two year football banning order in 2008.

 

https://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/format.cgi?doc=/scot/cases/ScotHC/2009/2009HCJAC59.html&query=william+walls

 

Read in particular from paragraph 16 to the end (para 23).

[RobboM]

7 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

If you are interested in how the Courts view the "Famine Song", FTP and F***** B******* in a football context, then read the following judgement by Lord Carloway (now the Lord President) in an appeal to the High Court.  It's an appeal by a Rangers fan convicted at Kilmarnock Sheriff Court of a "racially aggravated" Breach of the Peace at a Kilmarnock v Rangers game and sentenced to 18 months probation and a two year football banning order in 2008.

 

https://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/format.cgi?doc=/scot/cases/ScotHC/2009/2009HCJAC59.html&query=william+walls

 

Read in particular from paragraph 16 to the end (para 23).

Naked Video used to have an Orangeman character called Mason Boyne with a daughter Orangina. Surely "William Walls" could have been shortlisted for that character's name too.

[been here before]

3 minutes ago, RobboM said:

Naked Video used to have an Orangeman character called Mason Boyne with a daughter Orangina. Surely "William Walls" could have been shortlisted for that character's name too.

 

No they didn't.

[RobboM]

5 minutes ago, been here before said:

 

No they didn't.

My apologies
2nd guess would have been wrong too with aKick up the 80s
I'd forgotten about Laugh??? I nearly paid My Licence Fee

[Blackford Hearts]

Did Mike Ashley take the Sevco Dutch tribute strips and rebrand them for Newcastle today? 

[Footballfirst]

The "Union Bears" aren't happy bears.

 

Edited August 25, 2019 by Footballfirst

[Tasavallan]

I notice that Newcastle were celebrating Tim Krul day by wearing an orange strip.

 

Derek Ferguson, go blow yer blue nose.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Tasavallan

[XXX]

 

Banner today.

[JackLadd]

Just amazed these UB weapons didn't call UEFA and FARE f****n b's. 

[Blackford Hearts]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

The "Union Bears" aren't happy bears.

 

Plead innocence but sign off with No Surrender! 

[shaun.lawson]

6 hours ago, Blackford Hearts said:

Plead innocence but sign off with No Surrender! 

 

I'm just as offended by their predictably illiterate use of apostrophes tbh.  

[doctor jambo]

8 hours ago, Blackford Hearts said:

Plead innocence but sign off with No Surrender! 

Their statement is true - at no time have they ever been pulled up by the club for the content of their songs, so they think it’s ok

[Unknown user]

11 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

The "Union Bears" aren't happy bears.

 

[Blackford Hearts]

7 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

Their statement is true - at no time have they ever been pulled up by the club for the content of their songs, so they think it’s ok

complicit then? 

[Blackford Hearts]

8 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

I'm just as offended by their predictably illiterate use of apostrophes tbh.  

Do not get me started on the colour clash or font size

Edited August 26, 2019 by Blackford Hearts

[Stupid Sexy Flanders]

"The Union Bears as a group are completely aware of our unique position as being the voice of Ibrox."

 

Christ almighty.

[Footballfirst]

There may be (more) trouble ahead.

 

RANGERS has today informed UEFA’s Control, Ethics and Disciplinary Body that the Club will not be requesting tickets for its next European away match.

The Club now faces an additional UEFA charge of racist behaviour for sectarian singing during the first leg of our Europa League play–off tie against Legia Warsaw last Thursday evening. We are liaising with UEFA in relation to this second charge.

The first charge came after the match against St Joseph’s at Ibrox on Thursday, July 18. A consequence of sectarian singing from section BF1 of the ground that evening is that UEFA ordered a partial closure of our stadium for tomorrow night’s crucial game. Those fans responsible for this partial closure of Ibrox Stadium need to understand that they are damaging our Club. If there is a further incidence at tomorrow night’s match this could lead to a ground closure.

The same applies to those who indulged in sectarian singing in Warsaw last week and that is why we have taken the decision to make UEFA aware that we will decline tickets for our next away match even though this means that, once again, the many must suffer because of the few.

This kind of behaviour has no place at Ibrox, or anywhere else where our many teams appear. Offenders must please stop. You are endangering your Club which has recently launched its Everyone Anyone project aimed at welcoming all to Ibrox. Those who wish to sing offensive songs must realise by now that they are insulting Rangers players, staff, and fellow fans. There is nothing clever, bold or even defiant in what this small number of supporters are doing.

By supporting Rangers in the correct way the rest of us must strive to protect our great Club. One way or another this offensive behaviour must end and it would be much more preferable if we stopped it ourselves, simply by behaving like true Rangers fans.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Footballfirst

[hughesie27]

Decent statement from Rangers at least.

 

Not sure it will actually shift into the stands though.

[Newton51]

Good to hear. Some of them will never change though!

[XXX]

Have to say that is an excellent response by Rangers.

 

Let’s hope the SFA take a similar approach.  

[joondalupjambo]

The statement although good is probably too little too late.  More bans looming from UEFA and then the big one this Sunday.  No way will they be able to control themselves and then the pressure on the SFA to act will be huge.  Interesting times ahead.

[Footballfirst]

On 23/08/2019 at 17:42, Footballfirst said:

The text of article 14 of the UEFA Discipinary Regulations which have been used against TRFC

 

Article 14 Racism, other discriminatory conduct and propaganda

1 Any person under the scope of Article 3 who insults the human dignity of a person or group of persons on whatever grounds, including skin colour, race, religion or ethnic origin, incurs a suspension lasting at least ten matches or a specified period of time, or any other appropriate sanction.

2 If one or more of a member association or club’s supporters engage in the behaviour described in paragraph 1, the member association or club responsible is punished with a minimum of a partial stadium closure.

3 The following disciplinary measures apply in the event of recidivism:

a. a second offence is punished with one match played behind closed doors and a fine of € 50,000;

b. any subsequent offence is punished with more than one match behind closed doors, a stadium closure, the forfeiting of a match, the deduction of points and/or disqualification from the competition.

4 If the circumstances of the case require it, the competent disciplinary body may impose additional disciplinary measures on the member association or club responsible, such as the playing of one or more matches behind closed doors, a stadium closure, the forfeiting of a match, the deduction of points and/or disqualification from the competition. 

5 If the match is suspended by the referee because of racist and/or discriminatory conduct, the match may be declared forfeit.

6 The above disciplinary measures may be combined with specific directives aimed at tackling such conduct.

 

I posted the above last week. If UEFA is as good as its word, then TRFC will play its next game behind closed doors if found guilty of a second offence. 

 

The fact that the previous ruling didn't come out until Friday of last week, means that the club will seek to claim that they had no opportunity to make fans aware of the implications of a repeat breach before the first leg of the Legia tie. That doesn't really wash as the club would have been aware of the original charge long before that game, but chose not to do anything about it.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Footballfirst