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Going Veggie


jake

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9 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Yeah I it’s called that. 

 

I really cut cut down on red meat but I’m totally restricted by what my missus and kids will eat. Spaghetti bolognese or meatballs, Chilli, Beef Stir Fry’s every bloody week. 🤦‍♂️

 

I like fish but my missus hates it because it makes the house stink and she’ll not eat river fish because it tastes like mud apparently. 🙄

 

On the other hand I could live on just fish. 

 

Mushrooms is the go to food apparently Sadj. Not everyone’s cup of tea but for anyone looking to get fit or lose the pounds, Mushrooms are the superfood. 

Indeed they are a new superfood , who knew Super Mario was based in reality. 

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10 minutes ago, sadj said:

 

I use millet when i bulk , rice when i maintain and cous cous when im cutting. Losing weight is about calorie deficit. What a lot of people don’t realise is that the portions they eat are often far more calorific than they realise.

 

 

 

This.

 

10 minutes ago, sadj said:

 

Keto is popular nowadays though , my ex uses keto and she’s ripped as hell constantly. 

 

Keto changes the way your body burns fat.

 

As I understand it, when you eat carbs, this is the fuel your body burns.  When you eat carbs, your blood sugar spikes, thus producing insulin.  Insulin likes to store fat.

 

When you reduce the amount of carbs you take in a day, your body switches to burning your fat reserves, hence why once in ketosis you really start to lose fat.  Bump up the carbs and you are back to square one.

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1 minute ago, Boris said:

 

This.

 

 

Keto changes the way your body burns fat.

 

As I understand it, when you eat carbs, this is the fuel your body burns.  When you eat carbs, your blood sugar spikes, thus producing insulin.  Insulin likes to store fat.

 

When you reduce the amount of carbs you take in a day, your body switches to burning your fat reserves, hence why once in ketosis you really start to lose fat.  Bump up the carbs and you are back to square one.

 

Insulin would make an amazing steroid , if it was safe to use in that way it would be unbeatable. (For any crazies - do NOT try this)

 

 

I use L-Carnitine to help my body to utilise triglycerides and produce extra atp for energy. Black coffee , l-carnitine and coconut oil is a personal favourite before i train. 

 

 

 

 

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I couldn't do it as i love a bacon sandwich too much. Not fussed about fish and probably wouldn't miss chicken all that much either but bacon is life.

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1 hour ago, Longshanks said:

Been veggie for a year now and have found it pretty easy, was having problems with my bowels and since I cut out meat I feel much better.  The Mrs loves cooking and we creates loads of different meals.  I don't feel the need to tell people I work with or friends etc that I don't eat meat (unless they are cooking me a meal!) If anyone asks me why I'm vegetarian I'll explain it to them, I have had some people that almost seem offended by it though :lol: constantly bringing it up and continually questioning why I do it.

 

Hope you enjoy your new veggie diet and I hope you find it beneficial as well. 

 

Obvs its because you are not all there , bloody vegetarians 😭

 

No , in all honestly thats a very good post 👍🏻 , if gut health is ever a problem for anyone read up on L-Glutamine. Gut health is linked to serotonin levels which is an important part of fighting depression. Around 90% of your serotonin is produced in your gut. L-Glutamine has many other health benefits also. 

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1 hour ago, sadj said:

 

Insulin would make an amazing steroid , if it was safe to use in that way it would be unbeatable. (For any crazies - do NOT try this)

 

 

I use L-Carnitine to help my body to utilise triglycerides and produce extra atp for energy. Black coffee , l-carnitine and coconut oil is a personal favourite before i train. 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting. I usually just use C4 Pre-workout powder, but might give this a look.

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6 minutes ago, Craig_ said:

 

Interesting. I usually just use C4 Pre-workout powder, but might give this a look.

 

Not a fan of c4 , depends what you want to achieve which pre is best for you. What do you tend to lift? If im going heavy (650kg leg presses , 300kg rack pulls) then i like warriors range and i add a little bit extra beta-alinine and l-arginine. 

 

On topic - veggies are not to any of my knowledge good preworkouts but there are a lot of people moving more and more to a less meat filled diet. 

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I only once reached a stage where I had to review my eating habits and basically cut back and increased exercise. On retirement I golfed at least one round a day and if not golfing walked a lot, we also were into the regular heavy meat diet. Of course with the golf and companionship beer was a major factor.

On moving from the golf area, I suddenly came down with colon cancer, our diet was reviewed and we made some changes. Smaller portions, lots of fruit and vegetables, more fish, less meat, but have not cancelled out any of the things I enjoy such as eggs, I now though have a couple a week instead of two a day. I feel good, have no weight problem, I have though not had an alcohol drink for more than three years. Had a minor stroke but otherwise am in good shape, and when I have to state my age I quite often am greeted with some surprise.

Our granddaughter visited last week, she is a vegan, under doctors orders she was advised to eat chicken as she is seriously lacking something in her system. She is skinny, and has more aches and pains,but she is dedicated.

I honestly believe in each making ones choices, but for me I just like my old ways and am a bit too late to change.

Moderation is an excellent tool in life.

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1 hour ago, sadj said:

 

Not a fan of c4 , depends what you want to achieve which pre is best for you. What do you tend to lift? If im going heavy (650kg leg presses , 300kg rack pulls) then i like warriors range and i add a little bit extra beta-alinine and l-arginine. 

 

On topic - veggies are not to any of my knowledge good preworkouts but there are a lot of people moving more and more to a less meat filled diet. 

 

Nothing close to that. I'm a long-distance runner, so don't want to bulk up too much!

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3 hours ago, sadj said:

 

Insulin would make an amazing steroid , if it was safe to use in that way it would be unbeatable. (For any crazies - do NOT try this)

 

 

I use L-Carnitine to help my body to utilise triglycerides and produce extra atp for energy. Black coffee , l-carnitine and coconut oil is a personal favourite before i train. 

 

 

 

 

 

A lot of elite bodybuilders do use insulin. Dorian Yates talked about it a bit when he was on the Joe Rogan podcast.

 

It is very dangerous so people at home should not try this.

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11 hours ago, trotter said:

Can never trust a veggie. You have sharp, spiky teeth for a reason: and it sure as **** isn't kale.

 

Humans have evolved, giving us the teeth, jaws, and intestines of a herbivore.

 

Humans don't have spiky teeth. Our teeth are not suitable for seizing and tearing flesh. Compare human teeth to those of ,say, a cat.  Cats are carnivores and they do have spiky teeth.

 

We have jaws that move from side to side as we chew, just like a cow.  Carnivores' jaws move up and down only. Watch a dog's jaw next time you see it chewing something.

 

Human intestines are very long, just like other herbivores. Carnivore intestines are much shorter, so that decaying flesh is moved out of the body faster..

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52 minutes ago, Craig_ said:

 

Nothing close to that. I'm a long-distance runner, so don't want to bulk up too much!

 

Just stick with something simple like c4 then maybe have a read up on beta-alinine or citruline malate

 

 

44 minutes ago, Stokesy said:

 

A lot of elite bodybuilders do use insulin. Dorian Yates talked about it a bit when he was on the Joe Rogan podcast.

 

It is very dangerous so people at home should not try this.

 

 

🤐 i was trying to word it carefully but as we have both said 💯 do NOT try it at home. 

 

There was a woman on This Morning , stumbling about giving advice , saying such things as use a can of diet coke and don’t eat before gym then it became do eat but hours before you gym so that you keep your insulin levels down etc.

When you have a nutritionalist saying crap like that what hope do people have to learn things that will help them.

I’ll never be veggie but iv a few bodybuilding mates both male and female who are or are vegan and nowadays there is so many ways to get your nutrition correctly that if someone is following a diet that works or has made choices like veggie/veganism it makes no difference to helping them.   

Edited by sadj
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18 minutes ago, sadj said:

 

Just stick with something simple like c4 then maybe have a read up on beta-alinine or citruline malate.

 

C4's hoaching with beta-alanine. That's what gives it the tingly effect, I believe.

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Auld Reekin'
36 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Humans have evolved, giving us the teeth, jaws, and intestines of a herbivore.

 

Humans don't have spiky teeth. Our teeth are not suitable for seizing and tearing flesh. Compare human teeth to those of ,say, a cat.  Cats are carnivores and they do have spiky teeth.

 

We have jaws that move from side to side as we chew, just like a cow.  Carnivores' jaws move up and down only. Watch a dog's jaw next time you see it chewing something.

 

Human intestines are very long, just like other herbivores. Carnivore intestines are much shorter, so that decaying flesh is moved out of the body faster..

 

Humans are, and developed and evolved as, omnivores: neither herbivores nor carnivores. Of course, many of us - especially in the developed west - now have the luxury to opt for one diet over another, rather than just having to eat whatever was edible that we could get hold of in order to just survive.

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12 minutes ago, Craig_ said:

 

C4's hoaching with beta-alanine. That's what gives it the tingly effect, I believe.

 Yup thats the scientific explanation 😂 , you can get beta-alinine on its own though may be worth using depends on your own circumstances though 🙂

 

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This argument that we aren't evolved to eat meat is utterly stupid.  

 

The mere fact that billions of humans eat meat on a daily basis clearly shows that we have evolved to eat meat. 

Edited by AlimOzturk
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Governor Tarkin
6 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

This argument that we aren't evolved to eat meat is utterly stupid.  

 

The mere fact that billions of humans eat meat on a daily basis clearly shows that we have evolved to eat meat. 

 

The fact that we have to cook it so that it doesn't kill us proves that we're not properly evolved for eating meat.

 

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AlphonseCapone

The fact is we wouldn't be having this debate if it wasn't for meat as our brains would be such that we'd still be at the level of chucking shite at each other aka Hibernian fans. 

 

Can someone explain what a keto diet is in a way that isn't really wanky? 

 

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4 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

The fact is we wouldn't be having this debate if it wasn't for meat as our brains would be such that we'd still be at the level of chucking shite at each other aka Hibernian fans. 

 

Can someone explain what a keto diet is in a way that isn't really wanky? 

 

Low carb, high fat and protein.

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17 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

The fact that we have to cook it so that it doesn't kill us proves that we're not properly evolved for eating meat.

 

 

 

You can eat fish and some meat uncooked. Wont taste great but wont hurt you.

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Ketosis is when your liver goes into hyperactive mode and burns fat instead of glucose to provide energy.

Keto diets try to trigger this response to burn fat.

Typically this means cutting down carbs (carbohydrate breaks down to glucose).

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Governor Tarkin
4 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

The fact is we wouldn't be having this debate if it wasn't for meat as our brains would be such that we'd still be at the level of chucking shite at each other aka Hibernian fans. 

 

Can someone explain what a keto diet is in a way that isn't really wanky? 

 

 

There's merit in that argument, but we still need to cook it first.

 

Keto is a slightly less extreme version of the atkins diet re-packaged.

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19 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

The fact that we have to cook it so that it doesn't kill us proves that we're not properly evolved for eating meat.

 

Sashimi, tartare, carpaccio and many other dishes feature raw meat or fish.

Besides those, very rare meat is a very common food for many people.

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Governor Tarkin
2 minutes ago, Herbert said:

 

 

You can eat fish and some meat uncooked. Wont taste great but wont hurt you.

 

Of course there's always the odd exception to every rule.

Like not all Swiss cheese is full of holes.

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Governor Tarkin
2 minutes ago, Cade said:

Sashimi, tartare, carpaccio and many other dishes feature raw meat or fish.

Besides those, very rare meat is a very common food for many people.

 

I like my steaks very rare, but I can guarantee you that if we abolished cooking meat tomorrow there'd be a lot less humans around this time next year.

We're not optimised for it.

Anyway, I don't want this thread to go the way of every other thread we've ever had discussing the relative merits of veggie/veganism, so I'll but out now.

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30 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

The fact that we have to cook it so that it doesn't kill us proves that we're not properly evolved for eating meat.

 

 

We can eat raw meat fine if it is totally fresh, although as omnivores it is easier for us to digest cooked meats.

 

The problem is we don't hunt our own animals and eat them on the spot. Storing, processing and packaging allows harmful bacteria to contaminate the meat.

 

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AlphonseCapone

So is the Ketosis diet the latest fad or is it backed up by some science? I find cutting carbohydrates out quite difficult as I eat a lot of pasta and rice. 

 

On topic, I'm not vegetarian and doubt I'll ever get there but I am eating a lot less meat these days and when I do, it is mostly chicken or fish (did have a cracking steak pie last night, soz veggies 😝). It seems an anecdotal trend that a lot of people are cutting down on red meat but I think the latest stats I saw suggest we are eating more meat in the west. 

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5 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I like my steaks very rare, but I can guarantee you that if we abolished cooking meat tomorrow there'd be a lot less humans around this time next year.

We're not optimised for it.

Anyway, I don't want this thread to go the way of every other thread we've ever had discussing the relative merits of veggie/veganism, so I'll but out now.

 

This thread does seem to have gone way off topic in terms of discussing vegan and vegetarianism and advising those considering it.


Maybe a separate thread for discussing whether we are evolved for eating meat would be better?

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1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

The fact that we have to cook it so that it doesn't kill us proves that we're not properly evolved for eating meat.

 

 

 

That rules out a lot of vegetarian options too (well, not kill you, but not digestible)... we'd have almost nothing left to eat if we stuck to things we can eat raw.

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50 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

So is the Ketosis diet the latest fad or is it backed up by some science? I find cutting carbohydrates out quite difficult as I eat a lot of pasta and rice. 

 

On topic, I'm not vegetarian and doubt I'll ever get there but I am eating a lot less meat these days and when I do, it is mostly chicken or fish (did have a cracking steak pie last night, soz veggies 😝). It seems an anecdotal trend that a lot of people are cutting down on red meat but I think the latest stats I saw suggest we are eating more meat in the west. 

 

Don't know about the science but it certainly works. The hardest part is actually finding enough things with a high fat content to keep it interesting. There's only so much butter a man can consume...that's what made me stop doing it. 

 

It's also very easy to tio the carb scale too high without realising. 

 

In terms of athletic performance I'd actually say it helped me rather than hindered me, I had more energy and felt lighter and actually recovered quicker.

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Governor Tarkin
8 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

That rules out a lot of vegetarian options too (well, not kill you, but not digestible)... we'd have almost nothing left to eat if we stuck to things we can eat raw.

 

I know. The cooking pot is essentially an external stomach in which to pre-digest our food.

We'd be ****ed without it.

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AlphonseCapone
Just now, Taffin said:

 

Don't know about the science but it certainly works. The hardest part is actually finding enough things with a high fat content to keep it interesting. There's only so much butter a man can consume...that's what made me stop doing it. 

 

It's also very easy to tio the carb scale too high without realising. 

 

In terms of athletic performance I'd actually say it helped me rather than hindered me, I had more energy and felt lighter and actually recovered quicker.

 

I think I'd struggle with the concept of a high fat diet, particularly as I've got the body type that can pile on the pounds in a heartbeat. Does it leave you feeling hungry? 

 

That's interesting regarding the athletic performance. I've actually started the process of trying to change my body type, as far as I can with my genetics, in that I've always been well built, but means I find it harder to build cardio endurance which I want to do. Probably way off topic now though. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I know. The cooking pot is essentially an external stomach in which to pre-digest our food.

We'd be ****ed without it.

 

Raw egg whites , cashews and water sorted 😉

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Governor Tarkin
10 minutes ago, sadj said:

 

Raw egg whites , cashews and water sorted 😉

 

Don't forget the avocados, buddy. 👍

 

 

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30 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

I think I'd struggle with the concept of a high fat diet, particularly as I've got the body type that can pile on the pounds in a heartbeat. Does it leave you feeling hungry? 

 

That's interesting regarding the athletic performance. I've actually started the process of trying to change my body type, as far as I can with my genetics, in that I've always been well built, but means I find it harder to build cardio endurance which I want to do. Probably way off topic now though. 

 

 

You might want to look into intermittent fasting. Similar to the Keto diet in that it stimulates ketosis as well as being a calorie deficit type of thing.

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28 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

I think I'd struggle with the concept of a high fat diet, particularly as I've got the body type that can pile on the pounds in a heartbeat. Does it leave you feeling hungry? 

 

That's interesting regarding the athletic performance. I've actually started the process of trying to change my body type, as far as I can with my genetics, in that I've always been well built, but means I find it harder to build cardio endurance which I want to do. Probably way off topic now though. 

 

 

 

No, at first you think you are going to be starving and it just doesn't come. Fat and protein are more satiatng that the majority of carbs that we eat so will fill you up more.

 

I was having a bulletproof coffee in the morning, hitting the gym and expecting to be ravenous by the time I got to the office but I never was. I had to consciously make an effort to keep my calories up. 

 

In the end it was just too much effort as I tend to just eat fish/meat with a side of cous cous and spinach and replacing the cous cous was a ballache

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2 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

The fact that we have to cook it so that it doesn't kill us proves that we're not properly evolved for eating meat.

 

 

You do realise that the ability to cook our food is down to our intelligence and hence a part of evolution right?

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59 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

No, at first you think you are going to be starving and it just doesn't come. Fat and protein are more satiatng that the majority of carbs that we eat so will fill you up more.

 

I was having a bulletproof coffee in the morning, hitting the gym and expecting to be ravenous by the time I got to the office but I never was. I had to consciously make an effort to keep my calories up. 

 

In the end it was just too much effort as I tend to just eat fish/meat with a side of cous cous and spinach and replacing the cous cous was a ballache

 

😂😂😂 

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Governor Tarkin
3 hours ago, Cade said:

Potatoes need cooking too, so is this proof that we're not set up for being veggies?

:vrface:

 

If you say so, mate. 👍

 

1 hour ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

You do realise that the ability to cook our food is down to our intelligence and hence a part of evolution right?

 

Aye, but which came first, the cooking or the intelligence to cook brought about by cooking? :interehjrling:

 

 

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8 hours ago, Craig_ said:

 

Interesting. I usually just use C4 Pre-workout powder, but might give this a look.

 

8 hours ago, sadj said:

 

Not a fan of c4 , depends what you want to achieve which pre is best for you. What do you tend to lift? If im going heavy (650kg leg presses , 300kg rack pulls) then i like warriors range and i add a little bit extra beta-alinine and l-arginine. 

 

On topic - veggies are not to any of my knowledge good preworkouts but there are a lot of people moving more and more to a less meat filled diet. 

 

Ever measured your blood pressure after using a PWO? I tend to avoid them, can't handle the stims :lol:

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30 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

If you say so, mate. 👍

 

 

Aye, but which came first, the cooking or the intelligence to cook brought about by cooking? :interehjrling:

 

 

 

Cooking is very old. Like, before homo sapiens old. It is thought that Homo Erectus managed to control fire and thus develop the ability to cook food.  

 

There are so many advantages to cooking food in a evolutionary sense. Preserving food, making food easier to chew and digest killing off dangerous bacteria.

 

So with the ability to cook, use tools, preserve food and hunt it is only ****ing natural that we would hunt animals as an extra source of food considering the lack of agricultural skills that came later. 

Edited by AlimOzturk
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Governor Tarkin
3 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

Cooking is very old. Like, before homo sapiens old. It is thought that Homo Erectus managed to control fire and thus develop the ability to cook food.  

 

There are so many advantages to cooking food in a evolutionary sense. Preserving food, making food easier to chew and digest killing off dangerous bacteria.

 

So with the ability to cook, use tools, preserve food and hunt it is only ****ing natural that we would hunt animals as an extra source of food considering the lack of agricultural skills that came later. 

 

Sorry, mate, can you run that by me again?

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17 minutes ago, RS86 said:

 

 

Ever measured your blood pressure after using a PWO? I tend to avoid them, can't handle the stims :lol:

Thats cause your old pal 😂😂 , iv a mate who has a line before she trains. How her heart has not exploded I have no idea.

 

I tend to build my own nowadays dependent on what I’m doing tend to avoid the caffeine and focus more on pump for the pooling.

 

Not build my own lines , i mean build my own preworkouts 👍🏻 #clarification

Edited by sadj
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Just now, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Sorry, mate, can you run that by me again?

 

Nope. Thought I explained myself perfectly well and you are either a troll or extremely dim witted individual. 

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2 minutes ago, sadj said:

Thats cause your old pal 😂😂 , iv a mate who has a line before she trains. How her heart has not exploded I have no idea.

 

I tend to build my own nowadays dependent on what I’m doing tend to avoid the caffeine and focus more on pump for the pooling.

 

Not build my own lines , i mean build my own preworkouts 👍🏻 #clarification

 

There was a time when I could handle lots of stims funny enough, was less into training haha.

 

It's an eye opener how PWO's can spike blood pressure, mine rocketed. Funny enough my mate took a reaction to so PWO last week and ended up in hospital covered in hives

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