Gambo Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 22 minutes ago, TheOak88 said: It should be the football team priority but NOT necessarily the football clubs priority. What should be the priority? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch41 Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 36 minutes ago, TheOak88 said: First Team results are only one part of a bigger picture. After 5 years come on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_the_legend Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 22 minutes ago, Spellczech said: The thing is though that there have not been many matches where he has set the team up wrong, or done bad substitutions, or failed to try to change things when the original setup is not working...Sometimes you just have to accept that the balance of a squad and thus a team can be affected by injuries. Sometimes there are occasions when players fail to put their managers instructions into operation; or make individual errors; or collectively fall apart (Away at Livi last season, when the team just collapsed...). Football by its nature always has the manager as the man who carries the can, but FFS Levein was being blamed when he was the DOF only as well. I dare say if he was sacked, he'd still be getting blamed 3 years later "for the mess he left us in". Some people are short-sighted and just need to blame the person who has the balls to stick his head above the parapet for anything and everything... Levein gets criticised for not attacking the OF away, but the OF regard the visits of Hearts as being big games, and are up for them. This is not the same as visits by Dunfermline or even Killie. Are you kidding?? There have been many matches where this is the case, that’s been the main criticism of CL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Gambo said: What should be the priority? Ensuring the business is sustainable and in good overall shape so as to support first team football for the longer term? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch41 Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, EIEIO said: I think that the relatively good runs in both cups saved Levein for Ann. We also had an almost unprecedented run of serious injuries which was a valid excuse for some of our dire displays. I lost confidence in Levein at the Partick cup game at Firhill in February but hoped he would go after the cup final. Given the backing he has received from the board this transfer window to assemble probably the third best squad in the League, another 6th (or 5th) place finish would be the end of him unless he wins a cup. The first time we came up against a good team last season in the cups we lost. It just happens they were a semi-final and a final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said: Are you kidding?? There have been many matches where this is the case, that’s been the main criticism of CL. So given the squad and constant injuries we have, what would you do differently? (going out and signing Messi is not an option TBH) Edited August 25, 2019 by Spellczech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Just now, mitch41 said: The first time we came up against a good team last season in the cups we lost. It just happens they were a semi-final and a final. Motherwell weren’t a bad team. The good team you mention is the team that has totally dominated Scottish football for many seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 14 minutes ago, TheOak88 said: But didn’t you read the article? Levein is doing a great job! If we don’t get him tied down to a long term contract the EPL could come calling! The Estonian Premier League? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_the_legend Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, Spellczech said: So given the squad and constant injuries we have, what would you do differently? (going out and signing Messi is not an option TBH) A squad and budget that should have us in the European places. My point was simple, your assertion that “there have not been many matches where he has set the team up wrong, or done bad substitutions, or failed to try to change things” is odd considering imo, and many others, this is one of the biggest issues we have with CL over the past 2 years as Manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, Spellczech said: So given the squad and constant injuries we have, what would you do differently? (going out and signing Messi is not an option TBH) That’s a question no one can answer as regards last season as he was in charge when we had some pretty miserable luck with injuries. There is, however, an argument that another manager could have the current squad playing better. Only one way to test that theory out ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOak88 Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 16 minutes ago, Gambo said: What should be the priority? The football club has loads of different factors at play. First Team Charity Work Youth Development Community Work Running a profitable business Womens First Team Cant just focus on one aspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, davemclaren said: Motherwell weren’t a bad team. The good team you mention is the team that has totally dominated Scottish football for many seasons. There is a erroneous tendency to equate budget to power. Simple truth is that across a squad of footballers a difference of £1m or even £3m-5m in a budget actually means very little, especially when your squad keeps getting long-term injuries...When Celtic have a budget of £60m then Rangers on £30m and then next on about a third of that, budget DOES play a part, as it means strength in depth. Our being the 3rd or 4th biggest budget when it is only a few millions more than many other teams means very little indeed... What Ann is aiming to do is to put us in a position where we have a few extra million over others (bar the OF) for year after year, and this COULD be the difference between winning a cup every decade v 2,3,or even 4 cups per decade... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7628mm Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, davemclaren said: My understanding is that ‘benefactors, are paying fir this do no financial loss. I am struggling with this "no financial loss" thing. Surely if the benefactors are paying money to Save the Children then that money is not going into the club so is in fact a loss of revenue. Or another way It may very well be no financial loss to the club but it also means there is no financial gain so the club has lost out on sponsorship money coming into the club to improve financial turnover Edited August 25, 2019 by 7628mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Magic Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Spellczech said: There is a erroneous tendency to equate budget to power. Simple truth is that across a squad of footballers a difference of £1m or even £3m-5m in a budget actually means very little, especially when your squad keeps getting long-term injuries...When Celtic have a budget of £60m then Rangers on £30m and then next on about a third of that, budget DOES play a part, as it means strength in depth. Our being the 3rd or 4th biggest budget when it is only a few millions more than many other teams means very little indeed... What Ann is aiming to do is to put us in a position where we have a few extra million over others (bar the OF) for year after year, and this COULD be the difference between winning a cup every decade v 2,3,or even 4 cups per decade... Very sensible post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerjambo Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Levein is doing a fantastic job, there's no denying it. People shouldn't pay too much attention to the table tonight, it doesn't reflect all the great work going on in the background. The fact that opposition teams are absolutely bricking it when they play us, should tell us all we need to know. Some people need to seriously calm it, and look at the bigger picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EIEIO Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 17 minutes ago, mitch41 said: The first time we came up against a good team last season in the cups we lost. It just happens they were a semi-final and a final. Basically true though we did better in the final and if we'd had a decent keeper who knows?. Our results v Livi in the cup and Motherwell in the League Cup were arguably better than our most of our results post October. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 She really is a top social media troll Look at the reaction of some on here...knows exactly which button to push...well done Ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, innerjambo said: Levein is doing a fantastic job, there's no denying it. People shouldn't pay too much attention to the table tonight, it doesn't reflect all the great work going on in the background. The fact that opposition teams are absolutely bricking it when they play us, should tell us all we need to know. Some people need to seriously calm it, and look at the bigger picture. After we’ve played two games the table isn’t particularly informative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, Boab said: That’s a question no one can answer as regards last season as he was in charge when we had some pretty miserable luck with injuries. There is, however, an argument that another manager could have the current squad playing better. Only one way to test that theory out ! So would you bet the club's future on red or black? Changing managers is only ever worthwhile in retrospect. It is a gamble, made by owners to deflect criticism from themselves. Levein operates in the bargain basement of football. So would any replacement manager. Good managers who are successful in the bargain basement don't tend to stick around. Look at Steve Clarke. He'll probably be regarded as one of Killie's best ever managers, yet what did he actually achieve? is there a legacy? Has all he did and got plaudits for, already been undone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerjambo Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 1 minute ago, davemclaren said: After we’ve played two games the table isn’t particularly informative. Is it informative after ten games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 27 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said: Are you kidding?? There have been many matches where this is the case, that’s been the main criticism of CL. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said: Very sensible post. Thanks. I could add that Budge NEVER talks about challenging for the league, let alone winning it. She only talks about cups and wanting to give that feeling to fans more often. It us only us idiots who get carried away by topping the league at the end of September... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerjambo Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, CJGJ said: She really is a top social media troll Look at the reaction of some on here...knows exactly which button to push...well done Ann Talks like a politician too, some would say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, innerjambo said: Is it informative after ten games? Yes. Though more informative after we have played every team home and away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Just now, Spellczech said: So would you bet the club's future on red or black? Changing managers is only ever worthwhile in retrospect. It is a gamble, made by owners to deflect criticism from themselves. Levein operates in the bargain basement of football. So would any replacement manager. Good managers who are successful in the bargain basement don't tend to stick around. Look at Steve Clarke. He'll probably be regarded as one of Killie's best ever managers, yet what did he actually achieve? is there a legacy? Has all he did and got plaudits for, already been undone? I hear that and also agree about a solid, financial future for the club. All that said, the first team is the reason the club exists. It should always be priority. The record of the team in the League is shocking. How can the support...em...support the current manager if we toil again this season. Do we have to wait until it’s too late ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, 7628mm said: I am struggling with this "no financial loss" thing. Surely if the benefactors are paying money to Save the Children then that money is not going into the club so is in fact a loss of revenue. Or another way It may very well be no financial loss to the club but it also means there is no financial gain so the club has lost out on sponsorship money coming into the club to improve financial turnover My take on it is that they fund Hearts to provide StC with the shirt advertising free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerjambo Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 1 minute ago, davemclaren said: Yes. Though more informative after we have played every team home and away. So would that be 22 games then Dave? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Just now, innerjambo said: So would that be 22 games then Dave? Yip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmiyaHearts Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 I like Ann but shes so out of touch with the support. If she thinks Levein has done a great job, then he's here all season, no matter what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerjambo Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Just now, davemclaren said: Yip. Cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GorgieFifeLife Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 1 minute ago, innerjambo said: So would that be 22 games then Dave? Could be deep in relegation trouble by then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerjambo Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 1 minute ago, GorgieFifeLife said: Could be deep in relegation trouble by then. That wouldn't be a problem, not with the bigger picture, and all the hard work going on in the background. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 14 minutes ago, Spellczech said: There is a erroneous tendency to equate budget to power. Simple truth is that across a squad of footballers a difference of £1m or even £3m-5m in a budget actually means very little, especially when your squad keeps getting long-term injuries...When Celtic have a budget of £60m then Rangers on £30m and then next on about a third of that, budget DOES play a part, as it means strength in depth. Our being the 3rd or 4th biggest budget when it is only a few millions more than many other teams means very little indeed... What Ann is aiming to do is to put us in a position where we have a few extra million over others (bar the OF) for year after year, and this COULD be the difference between winning a cup every decade v 2,3,or even 4 cups per decade... Good post. I really can't understand why some people can't or just refuse to see this. We were a ba hair away from the gates being shut for good because we hucked millions we didn't have at the first team for years. The strategy is about investing in infrastructure which could sustain us for decades to come long after our current custodians are in place to enjoy the benefits. But hey Levein is out of his depth and Ann doesn't care about results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annushorribilis III Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, jambobob61 said: I get it she wants to be seen to be in charge. What I don't get is that on a day when we may end up rock bottom of the league the Budge and Harry Potter decide it a good idea to praise his work. Just shut up and actually do it and deliver! The scene is now set for all the pressure to be heaped onto the next game, for the players to fear to perform and for the supporters to quickly air their views on the perceived waste of their hard earned funding of the club. If ever 2 people tried to alienate the supporters of the club this duo are coming across as totally arrogant and might achieve their unintentional target! Maybe that's the point - to preempt criticism that will undoubtedly follow if Hearts are bottom after today. I can understand why she is trying to be supportive of CL and present a united front but she simply has to say CL is staying to see out his contract but for some reason will not do so and then goes on to say there's a "pile of supporters" that don't agree with her : actually there's a pile of results & performances that don't agree with her. Regardless of what happens today , CL will still be in place until the end of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettigrewsstylist Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 37 minutes ago, mitch41 said: The first time we came up against a good team last season in the cups we lost. It just happens they were a semi-final and a final. Indeed, Unlikely to happen 2 yrs running. League form should be ore telling this year after last 2 years showing. I actually have no issue finishing 6th in a highly competitive league with few points separating the top 3-6th place etc. We need to get closer to Dons this year for sure. Hibs are an irrelevance tbh, long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboross Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, 7628mm said: I am struggling with this "no financial loss" thing. Surely if the benefactors are paying money to Save the Children then that money is not going into the club so is in fact a loss of revenue. Or another way It may very well be no financial loss to the club but it also means there is no financial gain so the club has lost out on sponsorship money coming into the club to improve financial turnover They're not. The benefactors donated to us the equivalent of a commercial sponsorship deal to enable us to donate the shirt space to Save the Children. They also made a donation to Big Hearts and possibly Save the Children themselves. https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/a-perfect-match- Edited August 25, 2019 by Jamboross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunny Munro Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Once more for those at the back. Budge does not saying CL is doing a good job as manager. Budge strongly implies that she is dissatisfied with CLs job as manager. Budge says CL has done a great job behind the scenes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fila Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 (edited) 47 minutes ago, davemclaren said: Ensuring the business is sustainable and in good overall shape so as to support first team football for the longer term? To be sustainable we need a winning team on the pitch, playing football that people want to watch, we are miles short of that. Edited August 25, 2019 by fila Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettigrewsstylist Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said: Good post. I really can't understand why some people can't or just refuse to see this. We were a ba hair away from the gates being shut for good because we hucked millions we didn't have at the first team for years. The strategy is about investing in infrastructure which could sustain us for decades to come long after our current custodians are in place to enjoy the benefits. But hey Levein is out of his depth and Ann doesn't care about results. Basically, too many of our performances in 2019 look to have been hampered by severely unmotivated or nervous players. That surely has to be viewed as a failure of Mgmt. Craig needs to get his bite back and solve it, or step aside and let AN Other do so. Our squad has consistently shown less talent than it contains this yr. Recruitment has failed to find the right blend of "leaders" and "competitors" in my humble opinion. Edited August 25, 2019 by pettigrewsstylist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, Jamboross said: They're not. The benefactors donated to us the equivalent of a commercial sponsorship deal to enable us to donate the shirt space to Save the Children. They also made a donation to Big Hearts and possibly Save the Children themselves. https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/a-perfect-match- And they are 'good people' which is hard to find these days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, fila said: To be sustainable we need a winning team on the pitch, playing football that people want to watch, we are miles short of that. Miles? The business needs to be sustainable during the troughs as well as the peaks. There always has been peaks and troughs and that is likely to continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, CJGJ said: And they are 'good people' which is hard to find these days Very good. 😋 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 1 hour ago, davemclaren said: Ensuring the business is sustainable and in good overall shape so as to support first team football for the longer term? So first team is priority then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Famous 1874 Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 24 minutes ago, OmiyaHearts said: I like Ann but shes so out of touch with the support. If she thinks Levein has done a great job, then he's here all season, no matter what happens. She is absolutely ****ing clueless mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, innerjambo said: Is it informative after ten games? Do you EVER post anything positive? After 10 games the table will be a bit more informative but not conclusive as we saw from Kilmarnock's situation 2 seasons ago. Today we go into a game against the Champions and losing is not beyond the realms of possibility, more so because we are likely to be without Souttar, Walker, Haring, Naismith and Morrison from the squad. That limits the manager's selection and tactical options but because of the players we have signed, especially Damour and Whelan, I think we can still get something out of the game. Next week we might see a much stronger team as Naisy and Souttar are expected to be back and we may also have Meshino as a further option. How are Hibs doing? Edited August 25, 2019 by JamboAl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 46 minutes ago, TheOak88 said: The football club has loads of different factors at play. First Team Charity Work Youth Development Community Work Running a profitable business Womens First Team Cant just focus on one aspect. Out of the 6 factors you list, what should be priority? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Excusing the poor results on the supposed improved infrastructure in the 'disorganised' football department is just another example of poor performers all telling each other how good a job they are doing. Infrastructure is people. None of the Board including the chairwoman have any record of success in football and most are in thrall to the Chairwoman. The disorganised Director of Football has a mixed record in management and a very poor recent record - and no positive track record in creating successful football infrastructure. He has been allowed to instal people at all levels with no track record of success in their jobs - including the first team coaches, the reserve coach, the academy director and the sports scientist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Just now, Gambo said: Out of the 6 factors you list, what should be priority? All of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Gambo said: Out of the 6 factors you list, what should be priority? The one that gets significantly more funding than all the rest put together. Edited August 25, 2019 by DETTY29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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