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21 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

It's always good to ask questions 

 

 

 

 

The Amazon rain forest phoned, it wants their wig back. 

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Extinction rebellion are the peta of climate change. That said Andrew Neil should get some actual climate scientists on to discuss this issue instead of a mad activist named zion lights that he can easily talk down. All we see in the media is 'scientists are saying this or that', why not let the scientists say it then instead of paraphrasing. 

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1 hour ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

Extinction rebellion are the peta of climate change. That said Andrew Neil should get some actual climate scientists on to discuss this issue instead of a mad activist named zion lights that he can easily talk down. All we see in the media is 'scientists are saying this or that', why not let the scientists say it then instead of paraphrasing. 

 

Extinction Rebellion are on tv because they are blocking the roads.

 

The best bit of that clip for me was when Andrew Neill started on the practical measures needed to meet the 2025 target. Used example of ending gas central heating. 

 

What people can practically do might be more helpful. 

 

I'll leave the hypocrisy point for another time. 

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3 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

I'll leave the hypocrisy point for another time. 

 

Why? It's all anyone else focuses on. 

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16 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

Wonder what he thought the outcome of that would be :lol: he must have bought a ticket and everything. 

 

Hope he's got plenty of money as well, airlines tend to bill disruptive passengers for the costs incured for diverting/rescheduling the flight, and then ban them for life.

 

Also good luck ever getting into America. 😄

 

And what did you get arrested for?

I demonstrated on an airplane and prevented it from taking-off.

 

 

Application for entry to the USA

image.png.f19d4039144450fb38162b233cec12a4.png      

 

😂😂😂

 

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Francis Albert

The sheer hypocrisy of so many prominent Extinction Rebellion supporters is damaging the cause. Benedict Cumberbatch has been called out for supporting demonstrations in Trafalgar Square despite being paid handsomely for car adverts by MG and Jaguar. While travelling the world Emma Thompson style. When I first bought the Guardian 50 or more years ago it consisted of 16 pages filled with real news and good writing on flimsy paper and I read 80% of it.. Today it had about 500 thick pages including numerous tabloid style supplements including a 20 page travel section promoting ecologically unfriendly tourism. But it's OK since the numerous supplements are now wrapped in a supposedly biodegradable potato starch. And I doubt I or anyone much else reads more than 1% of it.

 

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Next time I take a scheduled flight I'll DEFINITELY be telling people I'm 'travelling the world Emma Thompson style'. Make that official right now. Get the tabloids on it. 

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Francis Albert
5 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

Next time I take a scheduled flight I'll DEFINITELY be telling people I'm 'travelling the world Emma Thompson style'. Make that official right now. Get the tabloids on it. 

If you are travelling specifically to join in an Extinction Rebellion demonstration about 8000 miles away, and in first class at that, then you DEFINITELY should. Except I suppose that you would struggle to grab the attention of the tabloids. Or indeed of those covering the protest.

Edited by Francis Albert
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As long as it's a flight that would be in the air whether I'm on it or not, I shall. 

 

What a fantastically pointless discussion this is. Hypocrite hypocrite hypocrite. We get it. 

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Francis Albert
18 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

As long as it's a flight that would be in the air whether I'm on it or not, I shall. 

 

What a fantastically pointless discussion this is. Hypocrite hypocrite hypocrite. We get it. 

Glad you get it. Your initial making eyes at me emoji didn't communicate to me. 

But I think your attitude  is if people are honest almost universal. If everyone else is "destroying the planet" I may as well do the same. 

 

Edited by Francis Albert
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22 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

As long as it's a flight that would be in the air whether I'm on it or not, I shall. 

 

What a fantastically pointless discussion this is. Hypocrite hypocrite hypocrite. We get it. 

 

A discussion which perfectly demonstrates why, despite scientists alerting the world to what was going on in the early 1960s, absolutely nothing has ever been done about it. We're all too selfish, too spoiled, and unable to agree on anything at all. Which back in the 60s, a few philosophers realised: correctly predicting that we were doomed and would never act until it was far too late.

 

"Save the planet? We don't even know how to take care of ourselves yet!"

 

 

 

Edited by shaun.lawson
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19 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Glad you get it. Your initial making eyes at me emoji didn't communicate to me. 

But I think your attitude  is if people are honest almost universal. If everyone else is "destroying the planet" I may as well do the same. 

 

 

The eye rolling was aimed at the subject of hypocrisy being brought up for the trillionth time during a global warming discussion. It's a massive waste of time, adds nothing to the debate and is simply an easy out for people looking to dismiss these protestors or ignore the issue. Don't want to have a go at you individually but it just annoys me. 

 

I think in the end, everyone (well not quite everyone but most) agrees that there is a serious problem but we just find ways to disagree and argue with each other. It's ****ing weird. 

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Francis Albert
3 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

A discussion which perfectly demonstrates why, despite scientists alerting the world to what was going on in the early 1960s, absolutely nothing has ever been done about it. We're all too selfish, too spoiled, and unable to agree on anything at all. Which back in the 60s, a few philosophers realised: correctly predicting that we were doomed and would never act until it was far too late.

 

"Save the planet? We don't even know how to take care of ourselves yet!"

 

 

 

Shaun you do love a bit of hyperbole. Nothing has been done about it? Lots has been done about it some of it counterproductive. None of it remotely adequate.

 

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Just now, Francis Albert said:

Shaun you do love a bit of hyperbole. Nothing has been done about it? Lots has been done about it some of it counterproductive. None of it remotely adequate.

 

 

Nothing fundamental has ever been done about it. And why? Because the entire capitalist system is built on growth for its own sake and resource extraction. Even the concept of 'sustainable development' is utter bullshit. It's a slogan used to make people feel comfortable about organisations continuing to use resources which harm the planet and endanger our species. 

 

If you've not been reading The Guardian's series on The Polluters, you should be. Massive corporations lobbying to get what they want - signing humanity's death warrant in the process.

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2 hours ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

 

The eye rolling was aimed at the subject of hypocrisy being brought up for the trillionth time during a global warming discussion. It's a massive waste of time, adds nothing to the debate and is simply an easy out for people looking to dismiss these protestors or ignore the issue. Don't want to have a go at you individually but it just annoys me. 

 

I think in the end, everyone (well not quite everyone but most) agrees that there is a serious problem but we just find ways to disagree and argue with each other. It's ****ing weird. 

 

I get what you mean, of course - but not really. Those philosophers I mentioned from half a century ago had such an impeccable understanding of human nature that they knew we'd use every excuse in the book not to do anything. (Some) human beings are effective when under immediate threat, ie. in wartime. Very few are when the threat is long term and can't be seen in the same way.

 

Our pathetic lack of attention span and desire for stuff, stuff and more stuff does the rest. I swear if life on Earth was about to end but Love Island was on the box, half the country would sit watching it instead of doing anything.

Edited by shaun.lawson
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Francis Albert
3 hours ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

 

The eye rolling was aimed at the subject of hypocrisy being brought up for the trillionth time during a global warming discussion. It's a massive waste of time, adds nothing to the debate and is simply an easy out for people looking to dismiss these protestors or ignore the issue. Don't want to have a go at you individually but it just annoys me. 

 

I think in the end, everyone (well not quite everyone but most) agrees that there is a serious problem but we just find ways to disagree and argue with each other. It's ****ing weird. 

Hypocrisy matters because it detracts from the message. Not just detracts from but damages it. People will simply not accept that the Emma Thompson's of this world can set themselves up as ecological models for those who do less damage to the planet than they do. They can afford to make a real contribution to the cause without courting counterproductive publicity based on a deluded view of their own importance and influence.

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1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

Hypocrisy matters because it detracts from the message. Not just detracts from but damages it. People will simply not accept that the Emma Thompson's of this world can set themselves up as ecological models for those who do less damage to the planet than they do. They can afford to make a real contribution to the cause without courting counterproductive publicity based on a deluded view of their own importance and influence.

 

And that's celebrities for you. When celebrities achieve 'success' precisely through believing they're special and not giving a shit about anyone else, they're not going to magically learn humility and virtue afterwards.

 

See also: politicians. And bankers. And others. 

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Francis Albert
1 hour ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Nothing fundamental has ever been done about it. And why? Because the entire capitalist system is built on growth for its own sake and resource extraction. Even the concept of 'sustainable development' is utter bullshit. It's a slogan used to make people feel comfortable about organisations continuing to use resources which harm the planet and endanger our species. 

 

If you've not been reading The Guardian's series on The Polluters, you should be. Massive corporations lobbying to get what they want - signing humanity's death warrant in the process.

I have been reading it which is why I referred to the Guardian's hypocrisy in.producing a near 500 page "newspaper" today filled with pap including ecologically damaging pap.

The oil producers feed a demand encouraged by the Guardian and the rest.of us. Blaming them is another and very damaging triivialisation.of the issue. 

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14 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I have been reading it which is why I referred to the Guardian's hypocrisy in.producing a near 500 page "newspaper" today filled with pap including ecologically damaging pap.

The oil producers feed a demand encouraged by the Guardian and the rest.of us. Blaming them is another and very damaging triivialisation.of the issue. 

 

No.

 

Nothing better sums up how cretinous humanity truly is than allowing the public, who buy plastic bags or fly long haul - to be blamed for something which has been caused, enormously, by massive global corporations. That is us. Shame someone for using a plastic bag; chastise young protesters for missing a day's school; ridicule a 16 year old child who just wants real, substantive action... and allow the same system which is killing all of us to continue as before, enriching a few at everyone else's expense.

 

There really isn't much difference between your position and the below. Which rightly got her lampooned.

 

 

Edited by shaun.lawson
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Francis Albert
1 hour ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

No.

 

Nothing better sums up how cretinous humanity truly is than allowing the public, who buy plastic bags or fly long haul - to be blamed for something which has been caused, enormously, by massive global corporations. That is us. Shame someone for using a plastic bag; chastise young protesters for missing a day's school; ridicule a 16 year old child who just wants real, substantive action... and allow the same system which is killing all of us to continue as before, enriching a few at everyone else's expense.

 

There really isn't much difference between your position and the below. Which rightly got her lampooned.

 

 

" How cretinous humanity is"? 

If that is what your view of humanity is then why worry about its demise?

It is such a cop out to blame massive global corporations. We wanted and still want what they provide us -a lifestyle previous generations would have envied and dreamt of. Life before the global corporations was for the vast majority of humanity utterly miserable. There may be a price to pay for what we enjoy but let's not just blame others.

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Some nasty scenes in London this morning, when protestors were dragged off trains and at least one assulted by members of the public.

It seems the public mood, or at least some of the public have turned against XR.

XR need the public to support them, and some recent polls (which I haven't seen, only heard about) the public don't support the actions of XR and then today, joe public turning violent against the protestors.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-50079716

 

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42 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Some nasty scenes in London this morning, when protestors were dragged off trains and at least one assulted by members of the public.

It seems the public mood, or at least some of the public have turned against XR.

XR need the public to support them, and some recent polls (which I haven't seen, only heard about) the public don't support the actions of XR and then today, joe public turning violent against the protestors.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-50079716

 

Surely targeting public transport which is what environmentalist champion is one of the most stupid protests possible.

 

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1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Some nasty scenes in London this morning, when protestors were dragged off trains and at least one assulted by members of the public.

It seems the public mood, or at least some of the public have turned against XR.

XR need the public to support them, and some recent polls (which I haven't seen, only heard about) the public don't support the actions of XR and then today, joe public turning violent against the protestors.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-50079716

 

 

Its more that this is a more direct conflict. 

 

London Tube is a bit more owned by the people. And the numbers are greater. Aircraft are more controlled and buses just get re routed. 

 

I did think this was coming. Good on the people of London. 

 

 

Edited by Mikey1874
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Was only a matter of time really.

Londoners unsurprisingly have had enough of their bollocks blocking hospital entrances and now tube trains.

Do they want more people driving ?

They frankly better get ready for some more leatherings the eankers

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47 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Surely targeting public transport which is what environmentalist champion is one of the most stupid protests possible.

 

 

Spot-on. Disrupting plane travel and protesting outside parliament makes sense. Preventing people from using public transport is counter to their goals.

 

I support their general goals and attended the march in Edinburgh a few weeks ago but the way they're going about it is a long way from optimal.

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jack D and coke
On 12/10/2019 at 21:16, shaun.lawson said:

 

Nothing fundamental has ever been done about it. And why? Because the entire capitalist system is built on growth for its own sake and resource extraction. Even the concept of 'sustainable development' is utter bullshit. It's a slogan used to make people feel comfortable about organisations continuing to use resources which harm the planet and endanger our species. 

 

If you've not been reading The Guardian's series on The Polluters, you should be. Massive corporations lobbying to get what they want - signing humanity's death warrant in the process.

Got a link to that pal?

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Agree with most of the above comments, and I'm surprised that it's taken this long for the public in London to push back at the disruption XR are causing them.

 

XR continually claim that they are demonstrating because they want to get the message out and that Government isn't doing enough.

Well target Government and leave the public alone, because XR need public support and disrupting & inconveniencing the public is not the way to gain it.

 

I think XR in light of today's events now have a serious decision to make, because they have now clearly lost the support of many of the public and the public is starting turn violent towards the protestors who are disrupting their lives, therefore XR must now re-think their strategy before someone really gets hurt.

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Joey J J Jr Shabadoo
3 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Some nasty scenes in London this morning, when protestors were dragged off trains and at least one assulted by members of the public.

It seems the public mood, or at least some of the public have turned against XR.

XR need the public to support them, and some recent polls (which I haven't seen, only heard about) the public don't support the actions of XR and then today, joe public turning violent against the protestors.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-50079716

 

:jjyay:

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:scenes:

 

 

:glorious:

 

:pleasing:

 

:pleasingao:

 

Another failure for these quite revolting individuals of Extinction Rebellion.  Easily the most counter productive display of activism the world has ever seen.  Their tears are champagne to me.  Scum to a man and I hope the law throws the book at every single one of the workshy, self righteous, hypocritical layabout no good criminal wasters.

Edited by i8hibsh
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2 hours ago, Stokesy said:

 

Spot-on. Disrupting plane travel and protesting outside parliament makes sense. Preventing people from using public transport is counter to their goals.

 

I support their general goals and attended the march in Edinburgh a few weeks ago but the way they're going about it is a long way from optimal.

 

I’m not so sure, mate. Plane travel is a form of public transport and unhappy travellers are as likely, or more likely, to banjo someone attempting to disrupt their travel. 

I’m not convinced the XR mob will be unhappy with these developments. Standing outside parliament, waving flags about isn’t going to cut it. No what people want to admit but violence brings things to a head a lot quicker than peaceful demos. 

Not condoning that of course !!

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11 minutes ago, Boab said:

 

I’m not so sure, mate. Plane travel is a form of public transport and unhappy travellers are as likely, or more likely, to banjo someone attempting to disrupt their travel. 

I’m not convinced the XR mob will be unhappy with these developments. Standing outside parliament, waving flags about isn’t going to cut it. No what people want to admit but violence brings things to a head a lot quicker than peaceful demos. 

Not condoning that of course !!

 

To clarify, I'm not saying that disrupting plane travel is the correct thing to do or that it is sensible. However, it does make sense whithin the context of the organisation's goals. Disrupting forms of public transport that play a big part in reducing emissions is idiotic when their goals are taken into account.

 

I could have worded that a lot better 🙂

Edited by Stokesy
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18 minutes ago, Stokesy said:

 

To clarify, I'm not saying that disrupting plane travel is the correct thing to do or that it is sensible. However, it does make sense whithin the context of the organisation's goals. Disrupting forms of public transport that play a big part in reducing emissions is idiotic when their goals are taken into account.

 

I could have worded that a lot better 🙂

 Yip. Understood. Don’t think they are idiots though. This has been thought through. Maximum disruption etc !

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Extinction Rebellion have just pissed off everybody.

 

If your deny climate change is happening then IMO, you're either a moron or your financially linked to the Oil/Gas/Coal/Fracking/Plastics system.

 

We do need to use less single use plastics.

We do need to need to eat less meat and fish.

We do need to convert to renewable's.

We do need to use the car less and invest in public transport and electric vehicles.

We do need to reduce our air travel.

We need to stop selling lamb to New Zealand and then buying lamb from New Zealand as an example of crazy.

We do need to start building sustainable homes that need less heating.

We do need to plant far more trees and help poorer countries to not chop down forests for stupid crops that we dont need.

We do need to utilise our railways, canals and seas to transport large bulky products instead of gas guzzling trucks (we live on an island).

We do need to divest from fossil fuels and into green technology to create jobs and new products.

We do need to move away from coal power stations globally.

We do need to reproduce less as a species.

 

And a good few others but my point is, theres nothing in the list above that humanity cannot do now if the will and the political push is there.

As soon as investors make money from it and consumers can save money doing it we will be sorted.

Climbing on trains and stopping folk going about their business wont change shit!

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11 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Extinction Rebellion have just pissed off everybody.

 

If your deny climate change is happening then IMO, you're either a moron or your financially linked to the Oil/Gas/Coal/Fracking/Plastics system.

 

We do need to use less single use plastics.

We do need to need to eat less meat and fish.

We do need to convert to renewable's.

We do need to use the car less and invest in public transport and electric vehicles.

We do need to reduce our air travel.

We need to stop selling lamb to New Zealand and then buying lamb from New Zealand as an example of crazy.

We do need to start building sustainable homes that need less heating.

We do need to plant far more trees and help poorer countries to not chop down forests for stupid crops that we dont need.

We do need to utilise our railways, canals and seas to transport large bulky products instead of gas guzzling trucks (we live on an island).

We do need to divest from fossil fuels and into green technology to create jobs and new products.

We do need to move away from coal power stations globally.

We do need to reproduce less as a species.

 

And a good few others but my point is, theres nothing in the list above that humanity cannot do now if the will and the political push is there.

As soon as investors make money from it and consumers can save money doing it we will be sorted.

Climbing on trains and stopping folk going about their business wont change shit!

Pretty much goes against every religion, so no chance of it happening.

 

Sadly, I think it's too late to save the planet as it is, but only for a while.  The planet will recover once the humans are gone.

 

 

 

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Joey J J Jr Shabadoo

I wouldn't be surprised if this middle class protest goes the same way as the Occupy process did. Especially now the workers are fighting back.

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1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

Extinction Rebellion have just pissed off everybody.

 

If your deny climate change is happening then IMO, you're either a moron or your financially linked to the Oil/Gas/Coal/Fracking/Plastics system.

 

We do need to use less single use plastics.

We do need to need to eat less meat and fish.

We do need to convert to renewable's.

We do need to use the car less and invest in public transport and electric vehicles.

We do need to reduce our air travel.

We need to stop selling lamb to New Zealand and then buying lamb from New Zealand as an example of crazy.

We do need to start building sustainable homes that need less heating.

We do need to plant far more trees and help poorer countries to not chop down forests for stupid crops that we dont need.

We do need to utilise our railways, canals and seas to transport large bulky products instead of gas guzzling trucks (we live on an island).

We do need to divest from fossil fuels and into green technology to create jobs and new products.

We do need to move away from coal power stations globally.

We do need to reproduce less as a species.

 

And a good few others but my point is, theres nothing in the list above that humanity cannot do now if the will and the political push is there.

As soon as investors make money from it and consumers can save money doing it we will be sorted.

Climbing on trains and stopping folk going about their business wont change shit!

 

Even if the whole of the EU did the above, it's effects on the planet would IMO be negligible, without all or most of the major polluters such as China, USA, Russia, India, Brazil, Mexico, Japan & Indonesia doing the same, then you are really just farting against thunder.

 

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Does anyone actually deny climate change?  The climate changes every second of every day in every inch of the planet.  Many people like me just do not attribute it to mankind.  There are huge environmental dangers in the world and we can all do our bit but this madness about Global Apocalypse and imminent Armageddon are simply not based on anything more than fantasy

 

Also, can someone tell me the relevance of the protesters waving LGBTQetcetc flags as part of their 'protests'?  Why must every ****ing left wing so call cause end up being an LGBT issue.  It is almost now as if it is being hijacked.  Do these people not realise that they are doing more to harm their 'cause' than strengthen it?

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