Harry Cochrane

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Could be that’s him peaked. 

[buzzbomb]

10 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

Hickey is an incredible talent.

Irvine might well make it but again he could go the same way as Harry that's my point it's not blooding them as we do that a lot it's seeing progression from them that I'm on about.

Stephen Simmons, Gary Glen, Callum Elliot, Allan McManus, Paul McMullen and loads of others have all been blooded in the past (and arguably in less competitive times for Scottish players) and never really cut it in the longer term. It's nothing new. Some make it, some don't.

[Tasavallan]

On ‎13‎/‎08‎/‎2019 at 13:57, TheBigO said:

Hickey wasn't hung out to dry - Levein had other options for the cup final but chose to trust the kid, and he paid him back in spades.  He won't be cast aside.  He may have a period where it's best for him to step away and work on things and come back.  I look forward to your snotters at such time as that happens.

 

Aaron Hickey is an exceptional talent.  Sure he needs to fill out and gain some muscle but he has already got the footballing nouse between his ears.

 

Players develop differently as they grow from child to teenager to man, my lad's talent was spotted early and he progressed up to U17s at an SPL youth academy but he stagnated when he reached 18yrs and ended up going into the US college system.  At 23yrs, with his growing pains well behind him,  he is now showing the ability he had as a pro-youth player.  I hope Cochrane develops but he may not.          

[hmfc_liam06]

46 minutes ago, Natural Orders said:

another injured player - shock!

 

I know! Levein's fault!!

[TheBigO]

11 minutes ago, Tasavallan said:

 

Aaron Hickey is an exceptional talent.  Sure he needs to fill out and gain some muscle but he has already got the footballing nouse between his ears.

 

Players develop differently as they grow from child to teenager to man, my lad's talent was spotted early and he progressed up to U17s at an SPL youth academy but he stagnated when he reached 18yrs and ended up going into the US college system.  At 23yrs, with his growing pains well behind him,  he is now showing the ability he had as a pro-youth player.  I hope Cochrane develops but he may not.          

Its hard to do all that growing and developing in the public eye. People want footballers to be robots don't they.

[Tasavallan]

1 hour ago, TheBigO said:

Its hard to do all that growing and developing in the public eye. People want footballers to be robots don't they.

As an example of how talent can dissipate, I give you Danny Galbraith.  Considered an exceptional talent at the Hearts Academy, then:

- signed by Man Utd as a 18yr old.  Never made the 1st team.

- transferred to Hibs where he played 52 games (mostly off the bench) in 4 seasons.

- then spells at Limerick, Gillingham, York City and at Edinburgh City last season.

- Now, at 29 yrs, playing with Gala Fairydean Rovers in the Lowland league.

 

You just never know, do you?   

[JamboAndrew]

2 minutes ago, Tasavallan said:

As an example of how talent can dissipate, I give you Danny Galbraith.  Considered an exceptional talent at the Hearts Academy, then:

- signed by Man Utd as a 18yr old.  Never made the 1st team.

- transferred to Hibs where he played 52 games (mostly off the bench) in 4 seasons.

- then spells at Limerick, Gillingham, York City and at Edinburgh City last season.

- Now, at 29 yrs, playing with Gala Fairydean Rovers in the Lowland league.

 

You just never know, do you?   

I was well gutted when he left as well

 

Probably that dastardly duo Levein and Anne's fault.

[JamboAndrew]

1 hour ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

I know! Levein's fault!!

Heard Anne gave him a sly kick as he walked past. Not ITK or anything. Just what I heard.

[davie1980]

Where do people put Hickey at present against Cochrane a year and a half ago?

 

A lot of people are talking about Hickey being an exceptional talent, talking about him reaching the very top of the game as if it is a foregone conclusion 

 

I remember the exact same discussions about Cochrane and McDonald a year or so ago.

 

Cochrane was thought by some to already be our best midfielder.

 

I mean the performance in the 4-0 Celtic game surpasses any individual performance Hickey has managed and Harry is still at Dunfermline

[davie1980]

11 minutes ago, Tasavallan said:

As an example of how talent can dissipate, I give you Danny Galbraith.  Considered an exceptional talent at the Hearts Academy, then:

- signed by Man Utd as a 18yr old.  Never made the 1st team.

- transferred to Hibs where he played 52 games (mostly off the bench) in 4 seasons.

- then spells at Limerick, Gillingham, York City and at Edinburgh City last season.

- Now, at 29 yrs, playing with Gala Fairydean Rovers in the Lowland league.

 

You just never know, do you?   

 

David Gray followed a similar path

 

Unfortunately for him, he never got to leave Hibs for better things the way Danny did

[Phage]

Harry put in some top class performances, however he his injuries really took the steam out of his development. Just needs regular football and hopefully he builds up momentum and confidence again.

[kila]

7 minutes ago, davie1980 said:

Where do people put Hickey at present against Cochrane a year and a half ago?

 

A lot of people are talking about Hickey being an exceptional talent, talking about him reaching the very top of the game as if it is a foregone conclusion 

 

I remember the exact same discussions about Cochrane and McDonald a year or so ago.

 

Cochrane was thought by some to already be our best midfielder.

 

I mean the performance in the 4-0 Celtic game surpasses any individual performance Hickey has managed and Harry is still at Dunfermline

 

Hickey is physical and consistent

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tasavallan]

19 minutes ago, davie1980 said:

 

David Gray followed a similar path

 

Unfortunately for him, he never got to leave Hibs for better things the way Danny did

And Adam King who, at 23 yrs, has played at a lot of clubs on loan from Swansea, where he never played a 1st team game.  Now at Dundee Utd but yet to start.

 

Is Lee Wallace the only player to have graduated from the Academy and progressed?

[SuperstarSteve]

1 minute ago, Tasavallan said:

And Adam King who, at 23 yrs, has played at a lot of clubs on loan from Swansea, where he never played a 1st team game.  Now at Dundee Utd but yet to start.

 

Is Lee Wallace the only player to have graduated from the Academy and progressed?

Callum Paterson. Injuries effecting progression mind you. 

[dode]

3 minutes ago, Tasavallan said:

And Adam King who, at 23 yrs, has played at a lot of clubs on loan from Swansea, where he never played a 1st team game.  Now at Dundee Utd but yet to start.

 

Is Lee Wallace the only player to have graduated from the Academy and progressed?

I believe Craig Gordon came through that route 

[jambogemz]

5 minutes ago, dode said:

I believe Craig Gordon came through that route 

As did Berra.

[TheBigO]

1 hour ago, Tasavallan said:

As an example of how talent can dissipate, I give you Danny Galbraith.  Considered an exceptional talent at the Hearts Academy, then:

- signed by Man Utd as a 18yr old.  Never made the 1st team.

- transferred to Hibs where he played 52 games (mostly off the bench) in 4 seasons.

- then spells at Limerick, Gillingham, York City and at Edinburgh City last season.

- Now, at 29 yrs, playing with Gala Fairydean Rovers in the Lowland league.

 

You just never know, do you?   

Great example.  I don't know the lad, but often people see a career like that and assume attitude or professionalism issues.  It isn't the case quite often, just the rigors of pro football, physical and mental, don't suit some people.

 

There will be examples the other way round too.  Guys who didn't stand out at 12-22 years old but ended up with good careers.

 

One thing I'm always wary of is comparison of youth players.  So and so was playing every week at 17, so why can't thingummybob.  It's pointless.  That 17 yearold may end up Danny Galbraith and the other end up Harry Kane.

[Tasavallan]

14 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

One thing I'm always wary of is comparison of youth players.  So and so was playing every week at 17, so why can't thingummybob.  It's pointless.  That 17 yearold may end up Danny Galbraith and the other end up Harry Kane.

 

I remember a player at U13s who played alongside my son.  He was huge (head and shoulders above everybody else at his age level) and could throw the ball into the penalty box from half-way. Considered as a potential future CB for the club.  By the time he reached 14 he was spent, left the Academy, hung around youth football for a few years then hormones kicked in, put on weight and he stopped playing.

 

What I am trying to say is that it is impossible to judge the potential of a player at a young age.  

[Thomaso]

2 hours ago, Phage said:

Harry put in some top class performances, however he his injuries really took the steam out of his development. Just needs regular football and hopefully he builds up momentum and confidence again.

 

I get an awful feeling Harry is not going to achieve the heights in the game we all thought.

[Robbo-Jambo]

6 hours ago, Natural Orders said:

what did he do to fall out?

Annoyed Levein. 😏

[Robbo-Jambo]

11 hours ago, Flaps_98 said:

"I spoke to the gaffer here before I came. The main thing for me was coming to a team that actually tries to play football." 😮

 

Quotes in the paper this morning.

A wee bit cheeky from Harry if true. 

 

Mind you that's how he fell with Levein in the first place by being too mouthy and getting too big for his boots. 

[jambocub]

5 minutes ago, Robbo-Jambo said:

A wee bit cheeky from Harry if true. 

 

Mind you that's how he fell with Levein in the first place by being too mouthy and getting too big for his boots. 

What's he meant to have said to levein?

[Bazzas right boot]

4 hours ago, davie1980 said:

Where do people put Hickey at present against Cochrane a year and a half ago?

 

A lot of people are talking about Hickey being an exceptional talent, talking about him reaching the very top of the game as if it is a foregone conclusion 

 

I remember the exact same discussions about Cochrane and McDonald a year or so ago.

 

Cochrane was thought by some to already be our best midfielder.

 

I mean the performance in the 4-0 Celtic game surpasses any individual performance Hickey has managed and Harry is still at Dunfermline

 

 

I think full backs and centre half's from Scotland have a better chance of being "top level players". 

So for me he's ahead because of that from the off. 

 

Hickey shows marvelous raw ingredients. 

Two footed, good technically and unbelievable composure and temperament for a 17 year old. He also has good awareness and is adequately physically. 

 

Cochrane showed good potential but for me doesn't show the raw ingredients that Hickey has. 

 

I think the next few months will confirm that when bids come in. 

 

Cochrane, dare I say it will be a good SPL level type midfielder. Folk will disagree, but even before last season I suggested he go on loan to get game time and develop, he wasn't good enough for us yet. I got shot down for that a year ago. 

He still isn't. 

He's a young lad, but Hickey reminds me of a young Wallace or G Naysmith. 

 

Very good for this level and given he's two footed, only turned 17 and looking at his cup final debut he's ahead of them imo. 

Early days, but the raw ingredients will be what attracts bigger teams as you can't really train things like composure and being two footed. 

 

Being left sided always helps as well,  far rarer than right footers. Helps transfer value immensely. 

 

Cochrane as a midfielder imo has a long way to go before he even commands a place in our team, but he's young. 

Hopefully he plays a lot for Dunfermline and improves. 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Smith's right boot

[Robbo-Jambo]

15 minutes ago, jambocub said:

What's he meant to have said to levein?

Don't know exactly but he was getting a bit Billy big baws apparently and Levein was pissed off with his attitude. 

[OTT]

15 minutes ago, Robbo-Jambo said:

Don't know exactly but he was getting a bit Billy big baws apparently and Levein was pissed off with his attitude. 

 

Seems like this story has been played out a million times with decent youngsters. 

 

How many times does it need to happen before they realise how lucky they are?

[Guest ToqueJambo]

If Cochrane really is a player we'll see him playing for us again before long. Hope so as I really liked the look of him when he broke through. If not, he'll find his level elsewhere. True talent always seems to find a way through and for every Paterson, Naysmith, Berra, Gordon, etc there are numerous David Smiths, Billy Kings and Gary Glens. The ones who make it always seem to have that extra bit of confidence from a very young age. Hickey seems to have that in spades, although to be fair Cochrane did too initially. Also Irving and MacDonald.

[Serge Pizzorno]

Think he’ll be in squad for Wednesday, noticed he wasn’t in reserve squad earlier, then seen he was training with first team. 
 

Hopefully he can kick on, he’s not had much luck last 18 or so months 

[Jambo, Goodbye]

It's worrying how often good youth players never seem to kick on. There's got to be something about scottish football or even just our genetics,  because we rarely produce strong powerful athletes.

 

For every Patterson,  there's about 10 skinny lads who "need to fill out". And we always seem so injury prone too! 

Edited March 10, 2020 by Jambo, Goodbye

[Cruyff]

5ft 6" 18 year old Billy Gilmour just controlled a game in the EPL. Yet Harry Cochrane needs to "fill out".  

[Jambo, Goodbye]

1 hour ago, Cruyff said:

5ft 6" 18 year old Billy Gilmour just controlled a game in the EPL. Yet Harry Cochrane needs to "fill out".  

Maybe some players need strength to aid their playing style. 

 

Iniesta never needed to bulk up because he was so aware of his surroundings. Hartley never needed to because he was a forward dribbling attacker with pace. 

 

But some players really need that attribute. 

 

I'm not sure if Harry can get away with being quite wee, depends on what else he has in his locker. But to burst on to the scene like he did,  shows he has something,  but he's being held back one way or the other 

 

[Beast Boy]

3 hours ago, Jambo, Goodbye said:

It's worrying how often good youth players never seem to kick on. There's got to be something about scottish football or even just our genetics,  because we rarely produce strong powerful athletes.

 

For every Patterson,  there's about 10 skinny lads who "need to fill out". And we always seem so injury prone too! 

To be fair Paterson was a skinny lad who needed to fill out too... which he did.

[Jambo, Goodbye]

1 hour ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

To be fair Paterson was a skinny lad who needed to fill out too... which he did.

 

Absolutely,  although he was miles ahead of the rest of the lads in his under-19 days. 

 

He's an example of a player I think simply had to put on some muscle to reach the level he has. He's got an incredibly physical style. 

[Ominous]

Hope Cochrane comes good but have higher hopes for the lad Hamilton.

[The Goalscoring Knee]

15 minutes ago, Ominous said:

have higher hopes for the lad Hamilton.

Agree. Seen him a couple of times. Reads the game well, gets brushed off a few times but always comes backck for more. Great attitude. Might be a bit small for centre back (ironic, given we're saying that's not a must to succeed) but could do a job sitting in front of the defence.

[Section Q]

On 01/10/2019 at 15:32, Tasavallan said:

As an example of how talent can dissipate, I give you Danny Galbraith.  Considered an exceptional talent at the Hearts Academy, then:

- signed by Man Utd as a 18yr old.  Never made the 1st team.

- transferred to Hibs where he played 52 games (mostly off the bench) in 4 seasons.

- then spells at Limerick, Gillingham, York City and at Edinburgh City last season.

- Now, at 29 yrs, playing with Gala Fairydean Rovers in the Lowland league.

 

You just never know, do you?   

It's a thin line between making and not...!

[Spellczech]

On 01/10/2019 at 15:32, Tasavallan said:

As an example of how talent can dissipate, I give you Danny Galbraith.  Considered an exceptional talent at the Hearts Academy, then:

- signed by Man Utd as a 18yr old.  Never made the 1st team.

- transferred to Hibs where he played 52 games (mostly off the bench) in 4 seasons.

- then spells at Limerick, Gillingham, York City and at Edinburgh City last season.

- Now, at 29 yrs, playing with Gala Fairydean Rovers in the Lowland league.

 

You just never know, do you?   

David Gray was even worse - he didn't get those bounceback moves after Hibs!...

[wavydavy]

8 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

David Gray was even worse - he didn't get those bounceback moves after Hibs!...

 

 

White Ladder was a pretty good album though.

[Saint Jambo]

2 hours ago, Ominous said:

Hope Cochrane comes good but have higher hopes for the lad Hamilton.

 

1 hour ago, The Goalscoring Knee said:

Agree. Seen him a couple of times. Reads the game well, gets brushed off a few times but always comes backck for more. Great attitude. Might be a bit small for centre back (ironic, given we're saying that's not a must to succeed) but could do a job sitting in front of the defence.

 

And yet Cochrane is only a month older than Hamilton, has done well in a run of top flight games and this season was loaned out to the Championship rather than League 2. If Hamilton had actually made a break through at some point and was now back in the reserves you could bet that he would be written off as well. 

 

This thread is such a standard pattern for our fans. Totally overhype youngsters when they first break through, then when they take time to develop complain that "they haven't kicked on" and start writing the individual off and complaining the whole Academy is rubbish. (More general theme of the thread than specifically the two posts I quoted.)

[Last Laff]

26 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

 

White Ladder was a pretty good album though.

please forgive me but I agree. 

[Last Laff]

12 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

 

And yet Cochrane is only a month older than Hamilton, has done well in a run of top flight games and this season was loaned out to the Championship rather than League 2. If Hamilton had actually made a break through at some point and was now back in the reserves you could bet that he would be written off as well. 

 

This thread is such a standard pattern for our fans. Totally overhype youngsters when they first break through, then when they take time to develop complain that "they haven't kicked on" and start writing the individual off and complaining the whole Academy is rubbish. (More general theme of the thread than specifically the two posts I quoted.)

The fans didn’t over hype Harry. Levein did and then the media when gubbing Celtic.  What do you want the fans to go?”right we’ve just pumped Celtic 4 nil with a 17 year old running the show but let’s all calm down because this kid might not make it?”

[HoGwash]

43 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

please forgive me but I agree. 

Just as well or you'd have to get used to hospital food. 

[TheBigO]

1 hour ago, Last Laff said:

The fans didn’t over hype Harry. Levein did and then the media when gubbing Celtic.  What do you want the fans to go?”right we’ve just pumped Celtic 4 nil with a 17 year old running the show but let’s all calm down because this kid might not make it?”

He was 16 I think!!!

[thegreatsd]

Once he gets in the team and we sign Nicky butt, Erik black, derek Williams and Ryan inniss we could have a team sheet that reads out like this......

 

Derek, Ryo, Don, loic, Hary, Coch and Boz, Erik, Sean, inniss, butt!

 

apologies for being so childish!

Edited March 10, 2020 by thegreatsd

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Cochrane I am sure is good mate of Gilmour. Hope it proves to be inspiring. People are different, mentally, physically and in ability, I still harbor hopes that Harry Cochranes talent will still be seen at Tynecastle. He looked particularly good when Djoum was his minder in games against Hibs

[stranraer-jambo]

2 hours ago, Sir Gio said:

Cochrane I am sure is good mate of Gilmour. Hope it proves to be inspiring. People are different, mentally, physically and in ability, I still harbor hopes that Harry Cochranes talent will still be seen at Tynecastle. He looked particularly good when Djoum was his minder in games against Hibs

 

Could be. IIRC Harry and Billy were both at Grange Academy, the SFA Performance school, and are both the same age so would know each other. 

[Thought Police]

49 minutes ago, stranraer-jambo said:

 

Could be. IIRC Harry and Billy were both at Grange Academy, the SFA Performance school, and are both the same age so would know each other. 

I also thought Harry left Rangers because Gilmour played in the same position.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

10 hours ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

To be fair Paterson was a skinny lad who needed to fill out too... which he did.

I remember there were some deluded people on here who thought he wasn't good enough for us or was glad to see him leave

[TheGoodLord]

I can think of so few if any occasions when a player (who has played 1st team or possibly not) gets put out on loan to a lower division and ends up back at his parent club a regular or even close.  Pretty much the death knell when you’re loaned to a lower division team imho. 

[CJGJ]

3 minutes ago, TheGoodLord said:

I can think of so few if any occasions when a player (who has played 1st team or possibly not) gets put out on loan to a lower division and ends up back at his parent club a regular or even close.  Pretty much the death knell when you’re loaned to a lower division team imho. 

Moore and Irving would agree with you no doubt

[Finlay James]

32 minutes ago, TheGoodLord said:

I can think of so few if any occasions when a player (who has played 1st team or possibly not) gets put out on loan to a lower division and ends up back at his parent club a regular or even close.  Pretty much the death knell when you’re loaned to a lower division team imho. 

 

Harry Kane

David Beckham

Didier Drogba

James Maddison

John Terry

Frank Lampard

jack Butland

Ashley Cole

Rio Ferdinand

Jermaine Defoe

 

All loaned to lower league clubs and all had pish careers.