Cathro

[Who_put_the_ball_in...]

18 minutes ago, McCrae said:

 

I am not there yet. If we plug the obvious gaps.... the news article today indicates he will I think CL can turn things around and we can have a good season.

 

If we don’t see an improvement then he needs to go.

Your a very patient man then not sure how anyone can think he deserves more time but each to their own.

[McCrae]

Just now, Who_put_the_ball_in... said:

Your a very patient man then not sure how anyone can think he deserves more time but each to their own.

 

Am far from happy, but also an optimist. CL was a very good SPL manager. I think he will be again..... so far undefeated at home this season. 😊

[StevenNaismith]

The first thing a manager must do is command the respect of the dressing room. Cathro failed massively on that front.

Edited August 12, 2019 by StevenNaismith

[PB21]

Great coach but never a manager

[Haringshairband]

[Auld Reekin']

We should’ve stuck with Tony Ford.  

 

[Baxfee]

1 hour ago, MR INCREDIBLE said:

Looking back were we to quick to dump Cathro?? 

He obviously had an idea of the way he wanted us to play but he never had enough quality in the team to implement his methods. 

Now we have quality players but have a management team with absolutely no game plan. 

Just putting it out there.!!! 

😂😂

[Des Lynam]

19 minutes ago, Davie HEARTS said:

 

 

 

 

Just needless. The OP is trying to create discussion and this joker just wades in with the insults. Hey Des, take a seat and keep your brains warm.

 

Brains. 

 

Oh the irony Davie. 

[redjambo]

1 hour ago, boag1874 said:

Ian Cathro is part of the reason we’re in this state

 

No. We've had enough time since then to properly turn things around and haven't.

[MTS1874]

Cathro had lost the dressing room, players had no respect for him, results on the park were woeful and he got the fitness training all wrong. 

[siegementality]

1 hour ago, boag1874 said:

Ian Cathro is part of the reason we’re in this state

He’s been a way for two years. We signed about 25 players since. Nothing Cathro did is any longer part of the reason we are in this state. I’m afraid you need to look far closer to home to find the person responsible for that,

[XB52]

Really think there are more hobos posting on kickback these days than Hearts fans. 

[McCrae]

1 hour ago, siegementality said:

He’s been a way for two years. We signed about 25 players since. Nothing Cathro did is any longer part of the reason we are in this state. I’m afraid you need to look far closer to home to find the person responsible for that,

 

Agreed. CL obviously has to take some responsibility, but so do the board. The overspend on the new main stand and the extra costs incurred because of mistakes have impacted the budget available for players. I think AB has not given the 1st team the priority she should.  Our main focus should be on having a successful team on the park. I think the eye has been taken off the ball.  It was a ridiculous decision to host a concert so soon to the start of the season. No need to take that risk with the playing surface. It looked awful and really set a bad tone for the game and forth coming season.

[siegementality]

5 minutes ago, McCrae said:

 

Agreed. CL obviously has to take some responsibility, but so do the board. The overspend on the new main stand and the extra costs incurred because of mistakes have impacted the budget available for players. I think AB has not given the 1st team the priority she should.  Our main focus should be on having a successful team on the park. I think the eye has been taken off the ball.  It was a ridiculous decision to host a concert so soon to the start of the season. No need to take that risk with the playing surface. It looked awful and really set a bad tone for the game and forth coming season.

Very harsh to blame AB. She has safeguarded the future of our club and despite the overspend on the stand, has provided more than enough funds for players.

 

The blame for this is squarely at the door of Levein. His poor management of the team has nothing to do with funding for the squad. He has had access to a player budget that previous Hearts managers could only dream of. His player budget is what all bar a few Scottish Premiership managers dream of having to spend. He has squandered a large proportion of it on poor signings. Despite that he still has one of the best squads we have had in a long time. Who provided the money for that? There are supposedly still players to come. Who will provide the money for those?

 

Blame many people, Levein, McPhee, the coaching staff, scouts, and the players, but AB is one of the last people that should be blamed. She has backed Levein to the hilt. In fact she has given him too much backing.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

No chance ! We were 3rd in the league when he took over , frightening how backwards we've went since him ! We were a season ahead of rangers and 2 seasons ahead of the hobos 

[Jodami]

17 minutes ago, McCrae said:

 

Agreed. CL obviously has to take some responsibility, but so do the board. The overspend on the new main stand and the extra costs incurred because of mistakes have impacted the budget available for players. I think AB has not given the 1st team the priority she should.  Our main focus should be on having a successful team on the park. I think the eye has been taken off the ball.  It was a ridiculous decision to host a concert so soon to the start of the season. No need to take that risk with the playing surface. It looked awful and really set a bad tone for the game and forth coming season.

So you are for still keeping Levein and blaming Budge. Really? Yes, the concert was a mistake but it didn't influence the result on Saturday and it's nowhere near the amount of mistakes that have been made on the footballing side. 

Budge has been publicly supportive, backed the manager with money and been more patient than any other owner would. He is the luckiest manager in the league to have an owner like Ann Budge. 

[Turkishcap]

Never been the same since Seith.

[rudi must stay]

3 hours ago, MR INCREDIBLE said:

Looking back were we to quick to dump Cathro?? 

He obviously had an idea of the way he wanted us to play but he never had enough quality in the team to implement his methods. 

Now we have quality players but have a management team with absolutely no game plan. 

Just putting it out there.!!! 

 

Peterhead showed where we were going.

 

That's where we were heading, we were rolling down the leagues. I genuinely believe that 

 

Cathro was no leader, we were conned by him and his CV. The way of playing was as slow and confusing as Levein's most weeks and John McGlynn's.

[VALDOS']

In answer to the OP,  those of us involved or experienced in football doubted from the start that it would work, then knew very quickly after that it was set for failure. There was no respect there for the guy and mixed with his lack of experience it was a disaster. 

[McCrae]

14 minutes ago, siegementality said:

Very harsh to blame AB. She has safeguarded the future of our club and despite the overspend on the stand, has provided more than enough funds for players.

 

The blame for this is squarely at the door of Levein. His poor management of the team has nothing to do with funding for the squad. He has had access to a player budget that previous Hearts managers could only dream of. His player budget is what all bar a few Scottish Premiership managers dream of having to spend. He has squandered a large proportion of it on poor signings. Despite that he still has one of the best squads we have had in a long time. Who provided the money for that? There are supposedly still players to come. Who will provide the money for those?

 

Blame many people, Levein, McPhee, the coaching staff, scouts, and the players, but AB is one of the last people that should be blamed. She has backed Levein to the hilt. In fact she has given him too much backing.

 

Why is it harsh to hold someone accountable for mistakes.  We all owe AB a lot for saving the club.  That doesn’t mean to say she can avoid responsibility when mistakes take place. The project management for the new stadium build was pretty bad.  Who do you think is responsible for that.

 

If you want to proportion blame for the lack of progress on the football side of the club CL is not the only person that you be held accountable.

[Bull's-eye]

I always find this debate quite amusing.

 

It's like some supporters think they had a say in Cathro being dispatched when it couldn't be further the truth. 

Cathro wasn't dismissed because he'd lost the backing of the supporters or because of team performance.

 

It's rather obvious who he fell out of favour with and not really difficult to figure out why when you look at his character, enough said 😉😉

 

[McCrae]

19 minutes ago, Jodami said:

So you are for still keeping Levein and blaming Budge. Really? Yes, the concert was a mistake but it didn't influence the result on Saturday and it's nowhere near the amount of mistakes that have been made on the footballing side. 

Budge has been publicly supportive, backed the manager with money and been more patient than any other owner would. He is the luckiest manager in the league to have an owner like Ann Budge. 

 

I think both CL and AB have responsibility in different ways for the position the first team is in.  It’s wrong to blame either in isolation.

 

I hope/think that things will improve before the transfer window closes and that we will have a good season.

 

AB supports the longer term vision for the club set out by CL and if CL is forced out...what about AB’s position.  Will she be happy to start again with a brand new strategy?  

 

People should be careful what they wish for... I see AB and CL as a team.

Edited August 12, 2019 by McCrae

[siegementality]

15 minutes ago, McCrae said:

 

Why is it harsh to hold someone accountable for mistakes.  We all owe AB a lot for saving the club.  That doesn’t mean to say she can avoid responsibility when mistakes take place. The project management for the new stadium build was pretty bad.  Who do you think is responsible for that.

 

If you want to proportion blame for the lack of progress on the football side of the club CL is not the only person that you be held accountable.

Your post was - in the main - was blaming AB for not providing funds to the first team. She has, more than enough in fact.

 

We have permanently signed a Scotland international, a NI international and a player who played in the English Premier League last season amongst others. Where did that money come from?

 

You said she hasn’t given the first team the priority she should. Given she said that she has only ever said no to Levein once in relation to a player (and personally I don’t think the reasons for that were financial) I would suggest otherwise.

 

AB has made £4 million in funding available to the academy. The whole reason the academy is in existence is to develop players who would play regularly for the first team. Where are those players?

 

We have - on paper - a good squad. We have - on paper - one of the best squads we have had in a long time.

 

Now, has AB made an arse of the stand. Yes. Was there an overspend. Yes. Has that overspend (a lot of which has been covered by mystery benefactor donations) had an impact on the first team budget. Probably, despite her saying not.

 

Until AB starts signing players and picking the team I’ll hold Levein responsible for the footballing side.

 

AB has made mistakes along the way. If I were to blame her for anything it would be her unrelenting support of Levein. Blaming her for not providing enough funds for players. Behave yourself.

Edited August 12, 2019 by siegementality

[Jodami]

5 minutes ago, McCrae said:

 

I think both CL and AB have responsibility in different ways for the position the first team is in.  It’s wrong to blame either in isolation.

 

I hope/think that things will improve before the transfer window closes and that we will have a good season.

 

AB supports the longer term vision for the club set out by CL and if CL is forced out...what about AB’s position.  Will she be happy to start again with a brand new strategy?  

 

People should be careful what they wish for... I see AB and CL as a team.

It's clear that Budge has viewed them as a team. However she has also led other businesses in the past and I don't doubt she has made changes when they are required. She is the boss in this situation and is the only one of the two with the power to change things. 

Most of the off the field goals have been met, the issue is on the pitch. You only had to look around before kick off on Saturday to see there are issues which are stopping people coming to see us. Getting rid of Levein has no impact on Budge, if the infrastructure is in place get in a manager on the football side and move forward. The biggest question is getting the right person in. 

[Tasavallan]

17 minutes ago, VALDOS' said:

In answer to the OP,  those of us involved or experienced in football doubted from the start that it would work, then knew very quickly after that it was set for failure. There was no respect there for the guy and mixed with his lack of experience it was a disaster. 

 

I stated at the time that, due to my personal knowledge of Cathro from his time as Dundee Utd youth coach (Box System), his character was unlikely to be suitable as a Manager at a professional level.  

 

The question for me has always been why Levein let Neilson leave without evaluating his replacement first.  My feeling at the time was that Neilson's shadow was blocking Levein and Levein was more than happy for Robbie to move to MKD.   

[Shaggy2]

No got time to read the thread just now, but we kept Cathro a summer too long and we’ve made the same mistake again. That’s two summers out of three we’ve kept the manager who should have gone in the hope they’d turn things round. Definition of insanity and all that...

[Costanza]

3 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

He was handed a team that was in the upper half of the table, decent financial backing and an excellent support structure.

 

It was a one in a thousand chance for him and he blew it.

Correct, he had everything in place, including a Director of Football backing his signings, even if pish like Martin. 

 

I still think that Jack Ross leaving is a hugely pivotal moment in our recent history. He would have been the replacement for Neilson I assume and would never have set us as far back as Cathro and may well have improved us.

All what if admittely, but no what if on Cathro staying...

 

 

[AGoodLaugh]

Cathro is a smart guy and a good coach, but nowhere near inspiring or authoritative enough as a figure to be a manager at this (or arguably any) level. 

 

Personally I doubt he'll ever manage again. Removing him when we did was the right decision. 

[been here before]

"Fxxked by a laptop, you're getting fxxked by a laptop" seems an awful, awful, awful long time ago.

[Bazzas right boot]

Should never have sacked Doddie. 

 

If anything, would have saved us from getting skelped by Airdrie a good few times. 

Double win. 

 

[McCrae]

1 hour ago, siegementality said:

Your post was - in the main - was blaming AB for not providing funds to the first team. She has, more than enough in fact.

 

We have permanently signed a Scotland international, a NI international and a player who played in the English Premier League last season amongst others. Where did that money come from?

 

You said she hasn’t given the first team the priority she should. Given she said that she has only ever said no to Levein once in relation to a player (and personally I don’t think the reasons for that were financial) I would suggest otherwise.

 

AB has made £4 million in funding available to the academy. The whole reason the academy is in existence is to develop players who would play regularly for the first team. Where are those players?

 

We have - on paper - a good squad. We have - on paper - one of the best squads we have had in a long time.

 

Now, has AB made an arse of the stand. Yes. Was there an overspend. Yes. Has that overspend (a lot of which has been covered by mystery benefactor donations) had an impact on the first team budget. Probably, despite her saying not.

 

Until AB starts signing players and picking the team I’ll hold Levein responsible for the footballing side.

 

AB has made mistakes along the way. If I were to blame her for anything it would be her unrelenting support of Levein. Blaming her for not providing enough funds for players. Behave yourself.

 

Remember 80% of our benefactors are FOH contributors.

 

I am not advocating a AB out position. If you are wanting to proportion blame for things it’s not all CL’s fault.

 

It is a fact that the budget available for players would have been higher if it was not for the over spend.

 

The almost doubling of the original estimated cost for the new stand, the forgetting to order seats and the delay in opening the new stand and the fact it’s still not finished makes it pretty clear the project management of the stand was poor.

 

 

[J80MBO]

5 hours ago, MR INCREDIBLE said:

Looking back were we to quick to dump Cathro?? 

He obviously had an idea of the way he wanted us to play but he never had enough quality in the team to implement his methods. 

Now we have quality players but have a management team with absolutely no game plan. 

Just putting it out there.!!! 

Oh dear

[Cade]

Cathro was bloody awful.

 

Some wee laddie who was shit hot at Football Manager and somehow thought real life was that easy.

[siegementality]

2 hours ago, McCrae said:

 

Remember 80% of our benefactors are FOH contributors.

 

I am not advocating a AB out position. If you are wanting to proportion blame for things it’s not all CL’s fault.

 

It is a fact that the budget available for players would have been higher if it was not for the over spend.

 

The almost doubling of the original estimated cost for the new stand, the forgetting to order seats and the delay in opening the new stand and the fact it’s still not finished makes it pretty clear the project management of the stand was poor.

 

 

My post was clear in that I said mystery benefactors. Those are the select few people that have stumped up millions. But I’m sure you knew that but are attempting a convenient wee twist.

 

I said did the overspend affect the player budget. Probably. AB said it didn’t so I’d take her word over some supposition on here. 

 

I already acknowledged she had made an arse of the new stand. What do you want, blood? There is a new stand thread that you can bleat about the project management, overspend, colour of the lavvy seats, until your wee hearts content.  Pay it a visit and have your say there.

 

Levein is a Club Director, Director of Football and Manager of Hearts.  He is responsible for all things football. You crack on and attempt to apportion blame elsewhere. When someone gets sacked due to the piss poor footballing results, performances, transfers and management of players that someone won’t be AB.

 

[McCrae]

6 minutes ago, siegementality said:

My post was clear in that I said mystery benefactors. Those are the select few people that have stumped up millions. But I’m sure you knew that but are attempting a convenient wee twist.

 

I said did the overspend affect the player budget. Probably. AB said it didn’t so I’d take her word over some supposition on here. 

 

I already acknowledged she had made an arse of the new stand. What do you want, blood? There is a new stand thread that you can bleat about the project management, overspend, colour of the lavvy seats, until your wee hearts content.  Pay it a visit and have your say there.

 

Levein is a Club Director, Director of Football and Manager of Hearts.  He is responsible for all things football. You crack on and attempt to apportion blame elsewhere. When someone gets sacked due to the piss poor footballing results, performances, transfers and management of players that someone won’t be AB.

 

 

We had £10 million from Benefactors this includes £8 Million from FOH.

[BarneyBattles44]

Cathro was rolled over by bully big baws overuled by said above. As is still at it today tomorrow and the next day. One day soon it will come out the wash in greater detail. Someone's been eating most of the best pies while hiding in the cupboard.

[siegementality]

40 minutes ago, McCrae said:

 

We had £10 million from Benefactors this includes £8 Million from FOH.

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/sport/football/hearts-mystery-benefactors-want-nothing-15569527

 

You've got your numbers wrong. Quite why you are banging on about this is a bigger mystery than the identity of our mystery benefactors.

 

There is also nothing mysterious about the FOH benefactors - of which I am one - unless they declined to have their name printed on the teams third kit a few seasons ago!

 

Football is played on a football pitch. In Hearts case it will be the £1 million pitch that AB found the funding for. That will be the £1 million she found for the pitch after providing 100k to improve the pitch during Cathro’s reign (remember him, the guy who this thread is about!).

 

Hearts have the fourth biggest player budget in the league. It’s a moot point whether any more money could have been made available had it not been for other things. The simple fact is that Levein has constantly blown what money he has been given, resulting in players being outcast or leaving for hee haw. Hearts have only received two decent transfer fees in the last five years, Sow and Lafferty. 

 

The DOF and manager of Hearts, Craig Levein, is responsible for the state we find ourselves in. I’m actually grateful that more money has been spent on the stand than anticipated. At least we will actually have something tangible and of value to show for that money

 

 

Edited August 12, 2019 by siegementality

[Thomaso]

9 hours ago, MR INCREDIBLE said:

Looking back were we to quick to dump Cathro?? 

He obviously had an idea of the way he wanted us to play but he never had enough quality in the team to implement his methods. 

Now we have quality players but have a management team with absolutely no game plan. 

Just putting it out there.!!! 

 

Incredible! 🙈

[MR INCREDIBLE]

MAN CITY 0 Wolves (I Cathro 1st team coach) 2

 

Hearts 0 KILMARNOCK 1

 

Mmmmmmmm.

Just a wee bump. 

[jamboman9]

Yup,it's all down to him,bring him back.😐

[Tasavallan]

On ‎12‎/‎08‎/‎2019 at 18:55, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

Incredible! 🙈

 

Inconceivable!  Cathro is an excellent coach.  CL never did his homework properly.  

[Ethan Hunt]

The Cathro situation is all a bit of a mystery. He has had success - relatively speaking - as 1st team coach at a few clubs. Rafa Benitez rated him, a pretty good endorsement of his coaching ability.

 

It was clear Cathro wasn’t great at interviews. That showed up some weakness and gave the knockers an in to give him a hard time. The club should have kept him away from that side of things initially until he got comfortable in a head coach role.

 

Was he given enough time, I dunno! Regardless of what people think, three years later we are no better off.

[kingantti1874]

 No ffs, worst record in history - had the players constantly confused

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, MR INCREDIBLE said:

MAN CITY 0 Wolves (I Cathro 1st team coach) 2

 

Hearts 0 KILMARNOCK 1

 

Mmmmmmmm.

Just a wee bump. 

Has Nuno Santo been sacked as first team coach?????? 🤔

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 hour ago, Ethan Hunt said:

The Cathro situation is all a bit of a mystery. He has had success - relatively speaking - as 1st team coach at a few clubs. Rafa Benitez rated him, a pretty good endorsement of his coaching ability.

 

It was clear Cathro wasn’t great at interviews. That showed up some weakness and gave the knockers an in to give him a hard time. The club should have kept him away from that side of things initially until he got comfortable in a head coach role.

 

Was he given enough time, I dunno! Regardless of what people think, three years later we are no better off.

 

He’s a poor man manager. I think that was fairly obvious. It’s much easier to look good when you’re behind the main man.

 

i don’t doubt he’s a talented and insightful coach but he was a disaster for us. 

[N Lincs Jambo]

The highlights of the Cathro era for me were the " You're getting fecked by a laptop" 4-0 game v Killie with Boyd playing and the 4-1 v der Hun just after we'd signed about 9 new players. I'm also tempted to put the 2-3 v Dundee at Dens purely based on the Official Match Thread on here that night. Went 2-0 up and everyone on here raving about how great the football we were playing was. Then Dundee changed it in response and we had no answer to their changes.

 

Cathro's comment after the game was " I didn't see that coming" and for me that was when things started to turn against him. A naive comment in the extreme.

 

Like many I wanted the Cathro experiment to work as, let's face it, we're not going to compete with the arse cheeks based on revenue so no chance of getting the likes of a Brendan Rodgers or even a Gerrard in as manager, so if we're ever to win the league in my lifetime (I'm 56) we need to find something better than either of those two clubs have.

 

For that, I was happy to see we tried something different. I was sad more than anything that it didn't work out.

 

Cathro clearly has something to offer. He's employed at Wolves probably earning far more as a coach than as manager here (ok I know his title here was 1st team coach) but Wolves have a manager. He's rated very highly by those in the game who have worked with him including Rafa Benitez. Would the folk who want CL out take Rafa as a replacement assisted by Cathro??

[Thomaso]

2 hours ago, Ethan Hunt said:

The Cathro situation is all a bit of a mystery. He has had success - relatively speaking - as 1st team coach at a few clubs. Rafa Benitez rated him, a pretty good endorsement of his coaching ability.

 

It was clear Cathro wasn’t great at interviews. That showed up some weakness and gave the knockers an in to give him a hard time. The club should have kept him away from that side of things initially until he got comfortable in a head coach role.

 

Was he given enough time, I dunno! Regardless of what people think, three years later we are no better off.

Cathro was a back room guy. He was and is not cut out to be the main man - he has the personality of a goldfish!

How Levein didn’t know that was a disgrace!

[Tommy Brown]

On 12/08/2019 at 10:27, A_A wehatethehibs said:

You have to laugh when you think how wrong that appointment was 

 

Neilsons team sitting 2nd, Johnsen showing good form, most players all working very hard, all we needed to do was basically get an experienced steady pair of hands in to take over, not make too many changes or pull up trees and we would have been 3rd or 4th 

 

Instead we hired a novice who looked to reinvent the whole team that January and we totally capitulated. Hilariously bad appointment- the exact opposite of what would have worked.

Short memories aplenty on here.

 

The guy will never ever be a manager. He shat his pants.

Rabbit caught in the headlights.

It was obvious by February that he needed binned. 

Yet our glorious DoF gave him a pre-season then sacked him the week before the league starts.

We are really ****ing this up.

[Glottis]

His tactics and selection were utterly shocking.

 

Our best game under him was against Rangers at home and we never once played that team or system again.

[AW1]

Although the Cathro experiment was an utter disaster the "laptop" did give me one of my favourite ever nights as a Hearts fan. That 4-1 pumping of Rangers  is something I'll never forget. Even Leonard Sowah nearly got in on the act that night from a wonder strike (how Foderingham got across to save that I don't know) 

 

He never had the dressing room, didn't seem to have any personality to get the players in board with his philosophy, shame really. Took a head coach role too early and was left hung out to dry