Liam Fox and Jon Daly.

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, Mr Kipling said:

Whether CL is being more hands on or not, we are massively struggling. If CL is leaving training to the other coaches then what exactly are they coaching on? is this another Cathro style project that is operating on a subterranean level where CL is trying develop younger and inexperienced coaches by way of 'learning by doing'? What ever it is, it isn't working.

 

Every week we slate the players and tbh there is justification in that but surely they are also just playing the way the coaches ask them to. We also say regularly that some players are just stealing a wage - are the coaches not doing the same? What do all these key people/coaches actually do? Maybe the coaching is as follows: a cheeky wee lazy morning with a bit of stretching and some bacon rolls at 11. Maybe a bit of running after then a spot of lunch. A kick around after lunch before home time. In a word, the coaches are rubbish and the justification for this comment is watching the team play every week. The tactics are terrible and the football is eye-bleeding to watch. We have a squad with considerable international experience FFS!

 

Surely FOH has some sort of influence over all of this? While this forum is actually very good for venting frustration and hearing opinions etc - is not time to exert influence? Are people really happy watching this every week? 

FoH has no influence other than their rep on the Hearts board. 

[soonbe110]

56 minutes ago, jambocub said:

Foxy takes most of the sessions and Daly  stands watching . McPhee and levein generally stand watching .

 

 

Not what I have witnessed. Fox leads the warm up and McPhee does a lot of the coaching tactics etc 

[Newton51]

What does Daly do then? I thought he was next in line especially when he has his trial period but remember he made some silly statements at the time 

[Soapy Soutar]

The buck stops with levein,he is the gaffer.If he is going to deligate coaching/training then he must keep tabs on it.

 

I dont know how it all breaks down and who does what,what i do know is

 

Many players look unfit,no desire,no style of play,set pieces are awful and confidence is a all time low.

No players are impressing or improving under this regime,not to mention all the injuries which training must play a part in.

 

CL and his staff i can find nothing positive anyone could take credit for,get them all tae ****.

 

 

[It should have been ten]

2 hours ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

I would even be happy enough if Levein decides he is staying, sack some of these guys and get some fresh coaches in. At least that would be action.

 

This

[A_A wehatethehibs]

1 hour ago, Gambo said:

Just get in some other mugs to follow his orders, yes that will sort the problem.

 

2 hours ago, Forever Hearts said:

The last thing we need is giving him the responsibility of picking a new coaching team. He should be leaving along with the duds that HE brought in. 

 

Just mean, better that than no action at all. 

 

Some kind of drastic change is needed, he’s not going to resign and Budge isn’t sacking him so maybe the only hope for improvement is for him to do a clear out of the boot room himself.

 

He has all that experience, he must have some idea of where he thinks things are going wrong. Change is needed, There’s no way he can think this is all down to the players, it clearly isn’t, we’re seeing different players come in and out of the team, all of them doing the same things and showing the same vulnerability. 

 

I accept the view that he himself is the central problem. Really I want him out but if he’s going to stay then he needs to make changes to the back room, a big shake up is needed. 

[sadj]

2 hours ago, afanderson33 said:

There were rumours a while back that Daly isn't liked at all by the younger players, wonder how true it is

Or by the senior players same with Fox and its not a rumour

[deejtee]

Seems like Kirk is doing ok however.

[logopolis]

We can't get rid of Austin - our new players in  policy seems to be going through his phone contact list.

[Thommo414]

2 hours ago, Jamhammer said:

Maybe shouts at them and acts like he gives a ****. Bless their little cotton socks

Aye but there's a way to do it without being a complete cock and still manage to command respect (Naismith for example). 

 

Personally throughout my work life, I've had both, managers that were firm who I could still respect and managers that looked to disparage people to get over their own inadequacies. 

 

Tbh I don't find it hard to believe if Jon Daly is the latter 

[Yoda]

3 hours ago, EIEIO said:

Craig should be included in any clear out, Austin seems a knowledgeable guy but is not team manager  material for me.

Austin was number 2 to Cathro and escaped any of the mud.

 

If wasn't partly culpable then, he was doing feck all for his money.

[Jammy T]

JJ used to leave most of the early week coaching to Billy Brown and whoever.

 

For example I bet you a lot of money Gary Mcallister does a lot more coaching than Gerrard each week but Mcallister is a very good

coach.

 

Folk are right though - that if you are delegating training(which most older school managers do) your coaches need to be a high standard - and I’ve never rated Daly. Maybe that was what McCann was getting sounded out for - some sort of head coach role but with Levein still in the dug out with possibly Neil taking over at the end of Craig’s contract if he had proven himself.

 

 

[Jammy T]

15 minutes ago, logopolis said:

We can't get rid of Austin - our new players in  policy seems to be going through his phone contact list.

 

A contact is a contact and he gets in good players.

 

What McCann signings have been duds?

[luckydug]

4 hours ago, ramrod said:

You can add Austin to that list as well , all 4 are callable. 

Yesterday proved that it doesn't matter how many players you add it means nothing if the coaching isn't right during the week . 

We were a shambles again yesterday with no pattern or style of play . 

All 4 need to go asap imo but the problem is Ann is miles away football wise so we would probably need a sporting director and a manager to push on . 

That was grim yesterday, very worrying going forward, given the money we've invested in new personnel. 

Ann was a ST holder and a fan same as the rest of us.

She has been around the club a while now and knows as much about football as any of us.

Eventually she will make the big decisions on the football department she hinted as much in her latest statement.

[jambo89]

The training can be the best the players have ever had.

 

They can work on passing all through the week and train like Barcelona 

 

But it if the players turn up on Saturday and implement Levien’s tactics (which isn’t what’s been worked on in training) then what else can the coaches do. 

 

They are either taking training as per the managers instructions or the manager is not applying the correct tactics as per the training.

 

Either way the buck stops with Levein.

 

It’s funny that Macphee’s training methods aren’t questioned at international level. 

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, Jammy T said:

JJ used to leave most of the early week coaching to Billy Brown and whoever.

 

For example I bet you a lot of money Gary Mcallister does a lot more coaching than Gerrard each week but Mcallister is a very good

coach.

 

Folk are right though - that if you are delegating training(which most older school managers do) your coaches need to be a high standard - and I’ve never rated Daly. Maybe that was what McCann was getting sounded out for - some sort of head coach role but with Levein still in the dug out with possibly Neil taking over at the end of Craig’s contract if he had proven himself.

 

 

Horses mouth says no contact or discussions ever happened 

[Meadows]

Daly and Fox should be punted pronto ,Andy Kirk seems respected by the players he is coaching .

paul Gallagher deserves a medal for coaching our keepers to get out the  direction of every single penalty 

Levein  is culpable as he hired them and blindly trusts them . 

Budge oversees the shambles , where do we stop ? 

 

 as he put his trust /reputation 

[stevie1874]

6 hours ago, Darren said:

 

Aye, because he got sacked by Dundee after doing a terrible job.

He did try to play an attacking style of football but ultimately had a poor standard of player, we have a good squad quality wise we just need the coach to find a style and formation of play that will win most games and excite the fans.   

[Debut 4]

1 hour ago, Jammy T said:

JJ used to leave most of the early week coaching to Billy Brown and whoever.

 

For example I bet you a lot of money Gary Mcallister does a lot more coaching than Gerrard each week but Mcallister is a very good

coach.

 

Folk are right though - that if you are delegating training(which most older school managers do) your coaches need to be a high standard - and I’ve never rated Daly. Maybe that was what McCann was getting sounded out for - some sort of head coach role but with Levein still in the dug out with possibly Neil taking over at the end of Craig’s contract if he had proven himself.

 

 

Yip.  It’s been interesting recently. We’re led to believe the same situ happens now at Hearts but I nip over most days to watch training for a bit as I’m working up at HW. 

 

Levein has been heavily involved on a daily basis since the East Fife match. Could be pressure or he’s not happy with his coaches, or both. 

 

You look over the years too and most Hearts managers have a good experienced assistant or someone they’ve forged a partnership with over a long time from the moment they took up management. 

[jambocub]

7 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Not what I have witnessed. Fox leads the warm up and McPhee does a lot of the coaching tactics etc 

You've clearly no been up oriam anytime lately .. unless they swap jobs about on different days 

[sadj]

6 hours ago, Jammy T said:

JJ used to leave most of the early week coaching to Billy Brown and whoever.

 

For example I bet you a lot of money Gary Mcallister does a lot more coaching than Gerrard each week but Mcallister is a very good

coach.

 

Folk are right though - that if you are delegating training(which most older school managers do) your coaches need to be a high standard - and I’ve never rated Daly. Maybe that was what McCann was getting sounded out for - some sort of head coach role but with Levein still in the dug out with possibly Neil taking over at the end of Craig’s contract if he had proven himself.

 

 

 

🥴

 

 

 

na, joking that is 👌🏻

[siegementality]

Billy Davies was right about what Billy Davies said.

[Kiwidoug]

From what's gone on in the actual games for years now, the whole lot of them have been utter bollocks.

[Pans Jambo]

19 hours ago, GorgieRules22 said:

Clean slate, get them all out.

If you dont agree with this are you happy to see our club struggle on the park against teams like "Ross Country"?

 

I am all for giving folk a chance but how many seasons have this lot been at our club? Enough!

 

I actually believe that our squad has the talent to win a lot more than they currently do but I dont think the management can motivate them.

 

Time to re-think our entire management structure. I would bet a new management team with the same squad could do much better.

[jambo19]

As director of football Levein let Neilson operate as Head Coach and he led the training with Crawford. By all accounts the sessions were very good and Neilson was involved day to day.

Both Neilson and Crawford were young and inexperienced but both very good coaches who demanded standards.

I get the impression Kirk and Rankin are similar to these two and should probably be part of the set up whilst Fox and Daly move back to a youth side as it's clearly not working. If a manager delegates you want these coaches - regardless of age - to put on sessions that get the best from their players and tie in with the style of play and tactics for the weekend, not just a session for the sake of it.

 

Macphee is highly thought of and has a good CV with his international jobs. Surely worth keeping. 

 

Either way some change is needed to freshen it up and get more from the players.

[siegementality]

Liam Fox and Jon Daly are not doing their jobs correctly.

[siegementality]

19 minutes ago, jambo19 said:

As director of football Levein let Neilson operate as Head Coach and he led the training with Crawford. By all accounts the sessions were very good and Neilson was involved day to day.

Both Neilson and Crawford were young and inexperienced but both very good coaches who demanded standards.

I get the impression Kirk and Rankin are similar to these two and should probably be part of the set up whilst Fox and Daly move back to a youth side as it's clearly not working. If a manager delegates you want these coaches - regardless of age - to put on sessions that get the best from their players and tie in with the style of play and tactics for the weekend, not just a session for the sake of it.

 

Macphee is highly thought of and has a good CV with his international jobs. Surely worth keeping. 

 

Either way some change is needed to freshen it up and get more from the players.

MacPhee survived Cathro’s sacking, he shouldn’t survive Levein’s.

[tolcross lad]

I doubt Fox and Daly are happy chappies if they have ambitions.The bootroom was the place to earn promotion.It now appears the place to stagnate or from where to get emptied.I dont know what McPhee expected.This kind of situation can breed resentment.

[soonbe110]

20 hours ago, Meadows said:

Daly and Fox should be punted pronto ,Andy Kirk seems respected by the players he is coaching .

paul Gallagher deserves a medal for coaching our keepers to get out the  direction of every single penalty 

Levein  is culpable as he hired them and blindly trusts them . 

Budge oversees the shambles , where do we stop ? 

 

 as he put his trust /reputation 

Re Gallagher I did wonder whether the Doyle extension was going to be followed by an announcement that he was also going to be keeper coach.  Might still happen 

[soonbe110]

16 hours ago, jambocub said:

You've clearly no been up oriam anytime lately .. unless they swap jobs about on different days 

I have, more than once. McPhee and Levein main players at training, Fox did warm-up and Daly was working with the players returning from injury, leaving, youngsters etc. 

Can only post what I saw. I’ll give you the dates if you want them. 

[maroonlegions]

On 11/08/2019 at 16:23, soonbe110 said:

Not what I have witnessed. Fox leads the warm up and McPhee does a lot of the coaching tactics etc 

So its Mcphee who is responsible for the utter shite on the park then, he should have been emptied with Cathro. If this is about saving money with CL doing too hands on jobs then it aint working. Nasiy out fecking wide on Saturday, players looking like they just did not know what the feck they were doing. I have had a long suspicion that its McPhees coaching and tactics that are producing the shite on the park, he needs emptied.

[jambocub]

4 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

I have, more than once. McPhee and Levein main players at training, Fox did warm-up and Daly was working with the players returning from injury, leaving, youngsters etc. 

Can only post what I saw. I’ll give you the dates if you want them. 

I'm only posting what I saw lately as well.

 

I was actually quite impressed with some of the one and 2 touch stuff I saw last week.

 

Then come match day you'd think it was the first the guys had saw each other and a football 😂😂

[busby1985]

The problem as I see it is this. The coaches are learning to coach using our first team as their apprenticeship when they should be learning how to coach the first team. Sounds mad but hear me out. By that I mean they shouldn’t be left to their own devices when it comes to the main body of work Monday to Friday. They should be learning watching Levein running the sessions, giving the instructions and dealing with poor performance. What we are seeing now is a continuation of problems that should be being drilled out them at training. This is obviously not happening which leads me to think that the set up is wrong. Berra the other day eluded to the fact that Levein took in an under 13’s game at the Oriam. Here in lies the problem. I don’t want Levein watching those ages group, I want Levein on the training park running the sessions and drilling home what he wants. Once we are successful on the park and everyone is on the same page, then start taking in these games and showing face around the various age groups. This shouldn’t be happening to the detriment of the first team, which it currently is. Washington’s comments today also kinda point to this problem. He said that the players didn’t carry out the managers instructions, something that normally comes from too many cooks, so to speak.

 

Everything needs to be simplified in my opinion. It’s amazing the work that has been done below the first team, something to be really proud of. Having been someone that’s seen first hand the old ways of the academy etc to what we have now, it’s lightyears ahead of what we had. We now need to focus on the first team as their is a clear disconnect between them. What we are seeing, all the good things aren’t being seen at first team level. We need a manager managing every single aspect of the first team and only the first team until it’s to a standard that the manager can step away, when needed. We are miles away from that point. 

 

I am still, kinda, like 60% sure, I want Levein to go back upstairs. The more I watch us tho, the more that % goes down. He is in major danger of wrecking the stairs back up to DoF and any of his coaches potential to step into the manager role. Lose on Friday and I can’t see him or his coaches surviving. 

[soonbe110]

27 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

So its Mcphee who is responsible for the utter shite on the park then, he should have been emptied with Cathro. If this is about saving money with CL doing too hands on jobs then it aint working. Nasiy out fecking wide on Saturday, players looking like they just did not know what the feck they were doing. I have had a long suspicion that its McPhees coaching and tactics that are producing the shite on the park, he needs emptied.

Wouldn’t say so. Thought his training sessions were excellent. Maybe it’s all about players being able to put into place what they have been coached during the week 

[soonbe110]

24 minutes ago, jambocub said:

I'm only posting what I saw lately as well.

 

I was actually quite impressed with some of the one and 2 touch stuff I saw last week.

 

Then come match day you'd think it was the first the guys had saw each other and a football 😂😂

Yep, I was extremely impressed each time especially by McPhee. The prep being put in to formation and tactics for Pittodrie was an eye-opener for me. Players seemed to be enjoying it as well. Levein was there and involved as was Paul G. Fox and Daly were mostly looking after the players not involved in the 11v11 training. 

Seemed to work quite well at Pittodrie but equally as perplexed as you re saturdays performance. Hopefully a one-off shocker. 

More fans should take the time to go watch what goes on at Oriam during the week rather than bashing their keyboards or gnashing their gums all week. 

[soonbe110]

20 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

The problem as I see it is this. The coaches are learning to coach using our first team as their apprenticeship when they should be learning how to coach the first team. Sounds mad but hear me out. By that I mean they shouldn’t be left to their own devices when it comes to the main body of work Monday to Friday. They should be learning watching Levein running the sessions, giving the instructions and dealing with poor performance. What we are seeing now is a continuation of problems that should be being drilled out them at training. This is obviously not happening which leads me to think that the set up is wrong. Berra the other day eluded to the fact that Levein took in an under 13’s game at the Oriam. Here in lies the problem. I don’t want Levein watching those ages group, I want Levein on the training park running the sessions and drilling home what he wants. Once we are successful on the park and everyone is on the same page, then start taking in these games and showing face around the various age groups. This shouldn’t be happening to the detriment of the first team, which it currently is. Washington’s comments today also kinda point to this problem. He said that the players didn’t carry out the managers instructions, something that normally comes from too many cooks, so to speak.

 

Everything needs to be simplified in my opinion. It’s amazing the work that has been done below the first team, something to be really proud of. Having been someone that’s seen first hand the old ways of the academy etc to what we have now, it’s lightyears ahead of what we had. We now need to focus on the first team as their is a clear disconnect between them. What we are seeing, all the good things aren’t being seen at first team level. We need a manager managing every single aspect of the first team and only the first team until it’s to a standard that the manager can step away, when needed. We are miles away from that point. 

 

I am still, kinda, like 60% sure, I want Levein to go back upstairs. The more I watch us tho, the more that % goes down. He is in major danger of wrecking the stairs back up to DoF and any of his coaches potential to step into the manager role. Lose on Friday and I can’t see him or his coaches surviving. 

Think you will find he is involved in first team training most days at the the moment and if he isn’t his assistant manager is. Fox and Daly are coaches. 

McPhee is a pretty experienced and highly regarded coach/assistant these days. 

[soonbe110]

35 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

So its Mcphee who is responsible for the utter shite on the park then, he should have been emptied with Cathro. If this is about saving money with CL doing too hands on jobs then it aint working. Nasiy out fecking wide on Saturday, players looking like they just did not know what the feck they were doing. I have had a long suspicion that its McPhees coaching and tactics that are producing the shite on the park, he needs emptied.

Have you ever gone to watch any of his coaching sessions? 

[CJGJ]

Unless you have been coached or involved in the coaching you will have no idea of just how good or bad the coaches are

 

The rest of the comments from others are just speculation and skewed depending upon the pro or anti Levein posters

 

Others speaking about the structure with no idea of what a 'coaching structure' should consist of are acting out of frustration rather than knowledge

 

[Forever Hearts]

11 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Yep, I was extremely impressed each time especially by McPhee. The prep being put in to formation and tactics for Pittodrie was an eye-opener for me. Players seemed to be enjoying it as well. Levein was there and involved as was Paul G. Fox and Daly were mostly looking after the players not involved in the 11v11 training. 

Seemed to work quite well at Pittodrie but equally as perplexed as you re saturdays performance. Hopefully a one-off shocker. 

More fans should take the time to go watch what goes on at Oriam during the week rather than bashing their keyboards or gnashing their gums all week. 

I couldn't care less what they do in training if the product on the pitch is utter crap, which it is. 

[kingantti1874]

9 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Unless you have been coached or involved in the coaching you will have no idea of just how good or bad the coaches are

 

The rest of the comments from others are just speculation and skewed depending upon the pro or anti Levein posters

 

Others speaking about the structure with no idea of what a 'coaching structure' should consist of are acting out of frustration rather than knowledge

 

I get you but we do so many of the basic things poorly, positionally, movement.. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to look at the coaching day in day out. 

[kingantti1874]

19 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Yep, I was extremely impressed each time especially by McPhee. The prep being put in to formation and tactics for Pittodrie was an eye-opener for me. Players seemed to be enjoying it as well. Levein was there and involved as was Paul G. Fox and Daly were mostly looking after the players not involved in the 11v11 training. 

Seemed to work quite well at Pittodrie but equally as perplexed as you re saturdays performance. Hopefully a one-off shocker. 

More fans should take the time to go watch what goes on at Oriam during the week rather than bashing their keyboards or gnashing their gums all week. 

formation and tactics?!? Did we talk about what we should do in possession, moving the ball quickly, the runs to make in certain situations.

 

all I see is hearts continual trying to work the ball wide, slowly and obviously making us ridiculously easy to stop.. we then usually resort to hoof it when this fails. It’s beyond grim.. whatever they are doing they need to do something differently 

[maroonlegions]

41 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Have you ever gone to watch any of his coaching sessions? 

Nope, have you been to Tynie and watched it or the shite thats on offer, its not working, the coaching that is, I take  it you witnessed that utter shite on Saturday. Coaching sessions. 

[maroonlegions]

36 minutes ago, Forever Hearts said:

I couldn't care less what they do in training if the product on the pitch is utter crap, which it is. 

That's the next excuse if and when we are dogfighting in the bottom six, but, but , but   come see our coaching sessions, what a total pile of cop out shite eh.

[tolcross lad]

1 hour ago, Forever Hearts said:

I couldn't care less what they do in training if the product on the pitch is utter crap, which it is. 

"the proof of the pudding is in the eating"

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 hour ago, kingantti1874 said:

I get you but we do so many of the basic things poorly, positionally, movement.. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to look at the coaching day in day out. 

 

Of course it isn’t but there is literally nothing which certain people on here won’t find a way of defending or, failing that, muddy the waters around.

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, kingantti1874 said:

formation and tactics?!? Did we talk about what we should do in possession, moving the ball quickly, the runs to make in certain situations.

 

all I see is hearts continual trying to work the ball wide, slowly and obviously making us ridiculously easy to stop.. we then usually resort to hoof it when this fails. It’s beyond grim.. whatever they are doing they need to do something differently 

Absolutely, lots of time spent on it, over and over again as well as how/where to hold the defensive line etc. 

I have no idea how or why the players don’t take what they do on the training pitch on to the park on a matchday. Levein even said himself sat night that going long wasn’t the plan on sat but for some reason we(mostly Bobby) did exactly that. 

Its a bit of a conundrum to be honest 

[soonbe110]

46 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

Nope, have you been to Tynie and watched it or the shite thats on offer, its not working, the coaching that is, I take  it you witnessed that utter shite on Saturday. Coaching sessions. 

Virtually every game. I’m mystified by it to be honest. 

[annushorribilis III]

2 hours ago, CJGJ said:

Unless you have been coached or involved in the coaching you will have no idea of just how good or bad the coaches are

 

The rest of the comments from others are just speculation and skewed depending upon the pro or anti Levein posters

 

Others speaking about the structure with no idea of what a 'coaching structure' should consist of are acting out of frustration rather than knowledge

 

Maybe it's a process of elimination. We change players every season but we still see the same dire outcomes often followed by the same comments from the management ie "it's not what the players were asked to do". Either the players are technically not capable of what is being asked of them or the the message from the coaches isn't clear/over complicated. The question is, how much longer will AB allow the manager/coaches to blame the players or do we simply keep on signing players until it all comes right? There's no point in saying it's all looking good at training -  it doesn't work when it matters on match day  and it hasn't been for a very long time , even after yet another injection of fresh blood into the team. This cannot continue. 

[Gorgieboy7]

4 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Yep, I was extremely impressed each time especially by McPhee. The prep being put in to formation and tactics for Pittodrie was an eye-opener for me. Players seemed to be enjoying it as well. Levein was there and involved as was Paul G. Fox and Daly were mostly looking after the players not involved in the 11v11 training. 

Seemed to work quite well at Pittodrie but equally as perplexed as you re saturdays performance. Hopefully a one-off shocker. 

More fans should take the time to go watch what goes on at Oriam during the week rather than bashing their keyboards or gnashing their gums all week. 

I watch sometimes and saw the same things when I watched the training week of oor last game of the season at Celtic. McPhee led the tactical training and it was really impressive, clearly has the players respect. Watched that game in the pub and saw what they were doing... gave me hope for the Final (sorry to bring it up). Fox seems far closer to the players than Daly... too many cooks?... no manager let’s assistants pick team or tactics. 

[soonbe110]

1 minute ago, Gorgieboy7 said:

I watch sometimes and saw the same things when I watched the training week of oor last game of the season at Celtic. McPhee led the tactical training and it was really impressive, clearly has the players respect. Watched that game in the pub and saw what they were doing... gave me hope for the Final (sorry to bring it up). Fox seems far closer to the players than Daly... too many cooks?... no manager let’s assistants pick team or tactics. 

Cheers