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The Sevco saga continues ...


JamboAl

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Footballfirst
6 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

At 20p (or thereabouts a share) that means King has around 60/65  MILLION shares in Rangers ?

Rangers have issued , on that basis, around 300 million shares ? 

 

On another note : is the share sell off simply so that King gets his DFE money back - but to avoid this being obvious, he's selling his entire shareholding. Not very "loyal" of him. 

The share numbers are further up the thread.

 

Yes, King is simply looking to get all his money back.

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14 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

The share numbers are further up the thread.

 

Yes, King is simply looking to get all his money back.

Cheers, I'm having trouble keeping up with this now. 

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Footballfirst

Club 1872 is saying that it's had 700 people sign up to the £500 deal. It can be paid in full, or over 10 months @£50, or 25 months @£20.

 

That's £350k accounted for, just the £13m to go.

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20 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Club 1872 is saying that it's had 700 people sign up to the £500 deal. It can be paid in full, or over 10 months @£50, or 25 months @£20.

 

That's £350k accounted for, just the £13m to go.

 

haha, just another 25,700 gullibillies @ £500 a skull needed then.

 

The line about Sevco's squad being worth big money is dubious. Kent is the only guy anybody has sniffed at and Sevco need over £10m to make a profit. Just because Lennon is a dumpling doesn't make RIFC players attractive to epl sides.  I'm not buying their Europa run either until they beat a side not ravaged by covid.  

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Seems to be more than a bit of haste about Kings reversal out of the club. Possibly even more telling that he wants this done fairly quickly. Wonder what he actually knows about what the future holds. 

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AllyjamboDerbyshire

Not sure if there's been any announcement from the boardroom, but I do wonder if the board, and in particular those who most recently pumped more money into the club, are all that enamoured with King trying to syphon off money from a source that they, those left behind carrying the can, might well have envisioned coming into the club's coffers at some time quite soon. It would surely be of more benefit to the club if the £500 donations, sorry share purchase, was used to buy new shares in some future super wonderful opportunity for supporters to buy...more confetti.

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1 hour ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said:

Not sure if there's been any announcement from the boardroom, but I do wonder if the board, and in particular those who most recently pumped more money into the club, are all that enamoured with King trying to syphon off money from a source that they, those left behind carrying the can, might well have envisioned coming into the club's coffers at some time quite soon. It would surely be of more benefit to the club if the £500 donations, sorry share purchase, was used to buy new shares in some future super wonderful opportunity for supporters to buy...more confetti.

By all accounts King was on his knees financially so the DFE swap must have embarrassed him. 

He needs to sell to pay back his DFE money lenders ; and as you say, that means the buyers of his shares won't be taking up any new share issue in the near future. But then the Huns were never good at this anyway : the IPO wasn't a great success and historically they don't get behind the club (Murray had to under write - and ultimately pay for - a share issue in oldco due to a lack of enthusiasm by the fans). 

That possibly leaves the current directors stuck with more soft loans & DFE swaps for the foreseeable future.

Unless they stop 10-i-a-r, in which case hubris trumps all. 

Edited by NANOJAMBO
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Ex member of the SaS
11 hours ago, Deevers said:

Seems to be more than a bit of haste about Kings reversal out of the club. Possibly even more telling that he wants this done fairly quickly. Wonder what he actually knows about what the future holds. 

Think we all know it's just a matter of time.

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AllyjamboDerbyshire
10 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

By all accounts King was on his knees financially so the DFE swap must have embarrassed him. 

He needs to sell to pay back his DFE money lenders ; and as you say, that means the buyers of his shares won't be taking up any new share issue in the near future. But then the Huns were never good at this anyway : the IPO wasn't a great success and historically they don't get behind the club (Murray had to under write - and ultimately pay for - a share issue in oldco due to a lack of enthusiasm by the fans). 

That possibly leaves the current directors stuck with more soft loans & DFE swaps for the foreseeable future.

Unless they stop 10-i-a-r, in which case hubris trumps all. 

As I said, it would be interesting to know their (the board) thoughts on this latest King development, he's certainly not doing this for the good of the club, and though they might believe otherwise, neither is he dong it out of a sense of altruism towards the club's supporters. But regardless, even if, as seems likely, Club Screw the Fans fails to gather enough to buy all of King's shares, it must surely tap that potential income source dry for some time to come, and I do wonder if, despite their historically poor record of financial support for their clubs, some comfort to recent major investors came from the belief that putting a winning team on the park might encourage fans to support future share issues.

 

Or, put another way, at a time when Hearts supporters are finding ways to add money to FOH during the pandemic, TRFC supporters are being encouraged to cough up cash to an ex-director. 

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6 minutes ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said:

As I said, it would be interesting to know their (the board) thoughts on this latest King development, he's certainly not doing this for the good of the club, and though they might believe otherwise, neither is he dong it out of a sense of altruism towards the club's supporters. But regardless, even if, as seems likely, Club Screw the Fans fails to gather enough to buy all of King's shares, it must surely tap that potential income source dry for some time to come, and I do wonder if, despite their historically poor record of financial support for their clubs, some comfort to recent major investors came from the belief that putting a winning team on the park might encourage fans to support future share issues.

 

Or, put another way, at a time when Hearts supporters are finding ways to add money to FOH during the pandemic, TRFC supporters are being encouraged to cough up cash to an ex-director. 

Agree with all of this , especially the last para. 

 

But when you have the Daily Ranger reporting the (potential) sale as a "£13 MILLION INJECTION" ... which it clearly isn't.  

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AllyjamboDerbyshire
1 minute ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Agree with all of this , especially the last para. 

 

But when you have the Daily Ranger reporting the (potential) sale as a "£13 MILLION INJECTION" ... which it clearly isn't.  

Injected up their collective ar*e, more like. Unless, of course, they consider ridding the club of King's toxicity to be valued at £13m.

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1 minute ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said:

Injected up their collective ar*e, more like. Unless, of course, they consider ridding the club of King's toxicity to be valued at £13m.

Interesting perspective. 

On the one hand King floods the market with his unwanted shares but the club gets a boost because it might be more appealing to other investors / sponsors with him gone. 

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1 hour ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Interesting perspective. 

On the one hand King floods the market with his unwanted shares but the club gets a boost because it might be more appealing to other investors / sponsors with him gone. 

He’s still got to get rid of them. I somehow doubt that these geniuses in Club 1872 will be able to raise the 13 million or anywhere near it. It could  well be that King will be hanging around like a really bad smell there for the foreseeable future. 

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On 02/12/2020 at 12:30, Hagar the Horrible said:

another question is if King is selling his 20% for £13.3m , he is valuing the club at £66.5m  thats a club that has their training facility held by Sports Scotland, and pretty much everything else by Close brothers.

 

History will tell us thet in 2006 SDM tried to do a share issue and ended up selling 1/3rd of MIM to finance that deal and ended up with extra shares he was trying to get rid of?

 

If this was Dragons Den rather than Bearsden I would be saying...Im out!

The lying king is not stupid he has probably seen the writing on the wall , being that if he doesn't get out now he will lose all or most of his investment sevco may look like a graceful swan on the surface but under the surface I think they are paddling furiously to keep above water .If sevco are a good investment why get out now seems very peculiar imo as I said King will not lose money

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Footballfirst

Club 1872 is now reporting 1,000 people signed up to their £500 club.

 

Interestingly they have also gone on record as saying that they will be able to participate fully in future share issues.  We know that the club requires £23.2m further funding between this season in next.  It seems highly unlikely that Club 1872 will be able to participate in that funding while raising funds to pay Dave King.

 

If further DFE swaps are required in return for £23.2m funding then Club 1872 will see both their 4.95% and Dave King's 20.37% holdings diluted.  The deal is being sold to fans as providing the opportunity for Club 1872 to have a "negative" controlling stake, i.e. the combination of both stakes is just over the 25% mark which would be enough to block special resolutions such as new share issues.  It is difficult to see how Club 1872 can sustain a holding in excess of 25% in the future.

 

The alternative to repaying future funding need would be to sell off their prized assets, which would not be welcomed if it affected performances on the pitch.

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Hagar the Horrible
13 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Club 1872 is now reporting 1,000 people signed up to their £500 club.

 

Interestingly they have also gone on record as saying that they will be able to participate fully in future share issues.  We know that the club requires £23.2m further funding between this season in next.  It seems highly unlikely that Club 1872 will be able to participate in that funding while raising funds to pay Dave King.

 

If further DFE swaps are required in return for £23.2m funding then Club 1872 will see both their 4.95% and Dave King's 20.37% holdings diluted.  The deal is being sold to fans as providing the opportunity for Club 1872 to have a "negative" controlling stake, i.e. the combination of both stakes is just over the 25% mark which would be enough to block special resolutions such as new share issues.  It is difficult to see how Club 1872 can sustain a holding in excess of 25% in the future.

 

The alternative to repaying future funding need would be to sell off their prized assets, which would not be welcomed if it affected performances on the pitch.

Just about to say the same thing but with my thoughts

 

Our model has us putting in whatever we can afford into the Foundation, which in essence we can commit to or come and go as our finances dictate.  We will own the club lock stock and barrel, apart from those individual shares we already own.

 

This King/club 1872 model is to pump millions into owning just 20% requiring 26,600 fans to cough up £500.  Why not just buy those shares up as an individual?  They need thousands of fans whom in a pandemic and Christmas is upon us and jobs are at risk, just to put ONE bampot in the directors box.  I bet he has already bought a pair of brown brogues?

In fairness having 1000 people in day 1 is brilliant, but 25,000 people to go is an ask, and what’s worse is the club needs £20m if that is provided by another director as a soft loan and then gets converted to shares (DFE) the 20% holding will be halved every single time that happens.

 

If the club went bust they could buy the whol,e club for what they raised so far, this project only allows King to get his money back, he is the only benefactor

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AllyjamboDerbyshire
41 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Club 1872 is now reporting 1,000 people signed up to their £500 club.

 

Interestingly they have also gone on record as saying that they will be able to participate fully in future share issues.  We know that the club requires £23.2m further funding between this season in next.  It seems highly unlikely that Club 1872 will be able to participate in that funding while raising funds to pay Dave King.

 

If further DFE swaps are required in return for £23.2m funding then Club 1872 will see both their 4.95% and Dave King's 20.37% holdings diluted.  The deal is being sold to fans as providing the opportunity for Club 1872 to have a "negative" controlling stake, i.e. the combination of both stakes is just over the 25% mark which would be enough to block special resolutions such as new share issues.  It is difficult to see how Club 1872 can sustain a holding in excess of 25% in the future.

 

The alternative to repaying future funding need would be to sell off their prized assets, which would not be welcomed if it affected performances on the pitch.

This is the kind of thing I was referring to earlier and wondering how King's latest Ibrox sortie sits with the board and those who most recently ponied up. I don't know what their beliefs in how the club's future financing shortfall would be managed were, but I'd imagine fan involvement in any share issues would have been anticipated, regardless of past history. I could well imagine, though, that there may have been some expectation there that if the club could challenge (and they are) for the title, and block 10 in a row, then there would have been a far healthier response than TRFC/RIFC has previously experienced. I doubt, though, that they'd have expected as much as £13m+ being raised through fans alone, and even if Club1872 doesn't achieve the full amount, they will be maxing out on their potential donations for quite some time to come. Whatever effect King's self-interest event has on TRFC/RIFC's finances, it surely cannot be welcomed by the board.

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Ex member of the SaS

Ok I know nothing of business and finances but I was always under the impression that company shares equated to the value of the company. Ie The company is worth £100 therefore you could sell 10 shares at £10 each or 100 shares at £1 each.

We don't know how much the Sevco shares are really worth, but divided by the number of shares issued the company must be way over valued.

Maybe someone can come on and correct me if I have this wrong.

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Footballfirst

Court hearings related to the indictment and arrest of David Grier (Duff & Phelps) and the indictment of Imran Ahmad, both following the collapse of RFC and the phoenixing of Secvo are continuing next week.

 

Greir has two actions against the Lord Advocate and Police Scotland, while Ahmad has an action against Police Scotland.

 

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1,000 sign ups is some stampede to buy Glib out. Bomber Brown better shake down the care homes again and turn over a few mattresses. 

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5 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Court hearings related to the indictment and arrest of David Grier (Duff & Phelps) and the indictment of Imran Ahmad, both following the collapse of RFC and the phoenixing of Secvo are continuing next week.

 

Greir has two actions against the Lord Advocate and Police Scotland, while Ahmad has an action against Police Scotland.

 

Amazing to think the catalyst for all this and everything before was Murray being duped hook, line and sinker by that charlatan, Craig Whyte

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On 02/12/2020 at 10:41, Footballfirst said:

Current major holdings

 

  • New Oasis Asset Limited, 66,672,893, 20.37%

  • Douglas Park, 40,000,000, 12.22%

  • George Alexander Taylor, 31,574,998, 9.65%

  • Stuart Gibson, 25,000,000, 7.64%

  • Borita Investments Limited, 23,611,955, 7.22%

  • Club 1872, 16,202,838, 4.95%

  • John Bennett 15,800,000 4.83%

  • Barry Scott, 15,145,000, 4.63%

  • George Letham,14,774,516, 4.519%

I've seen that Barry Scott on the Cilit Bang cleaning adverts. I had no idea he owned nearly 5% of the huns aswell😜

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Joey J J Jr Shabadoo
10 hours ago, Riccarton3 said:

Amazing to think the catalyst for all this and everything before was Murray being duped hook, line and sinker by that charlatan, Craig Whyte

Or go back further to when the Hun cheated.

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Footballfirst

It looks as if the EBT recipients have finally escaped unscathed from having to pay back any tax.

 

 

Edited by Footballfirst
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AllyjamboDerbyshire
10 hours ago, Riccarton3 said:

Amazing to think the catalyst for all this and everything before was Murray being duped hook, line and sinker by that charlatan, Craig Whyte

Had very little to do with Craig Whyte, charlatan though he was/is, and all to do with David Murray and Rangers cheating the taxman and all Scottish, and some European, football clubs. Craig Whyte had nothing to do with the EBTs and his cheating only delayed the inevitable liquidation of the club.

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11 hours ago, Riccarton3 said:

Amazing to think the catalyst for all this and everything before was Murray being duped hook, line and sinker by that charlatan, Craig Whyte

By that time Murray could not wait to get away from Rangers. The hole he had dug was getting deeper and deeper as subsequent events showed.

I just wonder if there’s a similar scenario on the cards with Kings apparent haste to exist them. If anyone knows the real depths of the financial situation inside the Rangers then it’s King.  I wonder what the other major shareholders and lenders make of all of this. 

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Hagar the Horrible

Do you know what would be hi;arious, is if Clube 1872 accidently bought 1 more share taking them over the 29.9% threshold and are forced into making an offer for all other shares

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1 hour ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

Do you know what would be hi;arious, is if Clube 1872 accidently bought 1 more share taking them over the 29.9% threshold and are forced into making an offer for all other shares

 

Be even funnier if it was hijacked by Celtic fans and they turned Ibrox into a carpark.

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5 hours ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said:

Had very little to do with Craig Whyte, charlatan though he was/is, and all to do with David Murray and Rangers cheating the taxman and all Scottish, and some European, football clubs. Craig Whyte had nothing to do with the EBTs and his cheating only delayed the inevitable liquidation of the club.

Aye sorry I was being sarcastic. The idea that Whyte duped Murray is ridiculous. 

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King stating value of Huns squad as much as 200 million. 

 

Clubs certainly will be drawn to players plying their trade in the SPFL and its demanding standards 😂

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Footballfirst

Another £2.75m raised with the issue of 13,750,000 new shares.

 

Could be another DFE swap, or just cash to keep the lights on.  They were forecasting a funding requirement of £8.8m for this season.

 

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC437060/filing-history

 

Assuming that neither Dave King nor Club 1872 has taken up some of these shares, then both will have been diluted sufficiently that their combined holding will no longer reach the 25% threshold, which was one of the reported key attractions of the sale/purchase arrangement.

Edited by Footballfirst
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36 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Another £2.75m raised with the issue of 13,750,000 new shares.

 

Could be another DFE swap, or just cash to keep the lights on.  They were forecasting a funding requirement of £8.8m for this season.

 

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC437060/filing-history

 

Assuming that neither Dave King nor Club 1872 has taken up some of these shares, then both will have been diluted sufficiently that their combined holding will no longer reach the 25% threshold, which was one of the reported key attractions of the sale/purchase arrangement.

Christ this new entity is another black hole, anyone getting involved has to be willing to throw money away ,the only guy to walk away with a profit yip the lying king who's taken the gullibles for a ride and they don't know it mugs

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12 minutes ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

Christ this new entity is another black hole, anyone getting involved has to be willing to throw money away ,the only guy to walk away with a profit yip the lying king who's taken the gullibles for a ride and they don't know it mugs

On a hard-nosed basis you are probably right but our FoH contributors do something similar to keep the club going.  These people will have no great expectation of a financial return for their share purchase.

Edited by JamboAl
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Glamorgan Jambo
1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

Another £2.75m raised with the issue of 13,750,000 new shares.

 

Could be another DFE swap, or just cash to keep the lights on.  They were forecasting a funding requirement of £8.8m for this season.

 

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC437060/filing-history

 

Assuming that neither Dave King nor Club 1872 has taken up some of these shares, then both will have been diluted sufficiently that their combined holding will no longer reach the 25% threshold, which was one of the reported key attractions of the sale/purchase arrangement.


Personally I thought it was very telling that there was precisely zero comment from anyone on or close to the Rangers board when the proposed sale of King’s stake was released.

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AllyjamboDerbyshire
1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

Another £2.75m raised with the issue of 13,750,000 new shares.

 

Could be another DFE swap, or just cash to keep the lights on.  They were forecasting a funding requirement of £8.8m for this season.

 

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC437060/filing-history

 

Assuming that neither Dave King nor Club 1872 has taken up some of these shares, then both will have been diluted sufficiently that their combined holding will no longer reach the 25% threshold, which was one of the reported key attractions of the sale/purchase arrangement.

Could this be a strategy to scupper King's latest money making scheme, or just a sign of their desperation?

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Footballfirst

I've just had a look at the latest liquidators report for the Oldco.  BDO seem intent on squeezing everything £1 out of the creditors pot that they can.

 

In the last 12 months they have taken £563k in fees for themselves and a further £693k is legal costs.

 

They still seem intent on pursuing Duff & Phelps, but I can't see them getting anything out of that, given that the D&P guys appear to winning their legal cases against the Lord Advocate and Police Scotland for malicious prosecution.  The BDO case is not due to be heard until May 2021.

 

However, there's still £3.9m in the creditors pot so the liquidation process may go on for a while yet.

Edited by Footballfirst
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Footballfirst
12 minutes ago, AllyjamboDerbyshire said:

Could this be a strategy to scupper King's latest money making scheme, or just a sign of their desperation?

I think its just to cover day to day running costs and bill payments. It is just part of their forecast funding needs, so we can expect further share issues and loans in the months to come.

 

The King and Club 1872 arrangement is just a side show to the main event.

Edited by Footballfirst
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Predictions of financial meltdown for Rangers are straight out of the Celtic fantasy pool. They have been going into liquidation "next quarter" for years now.

It's not going to happen. They are running at a loss but owe money to no one but directors who aren't in it to make money. You might consider them fans.

Does a Hearts fan expect a financial return on his investment when he puts money into Hearts through any means such as simply buying a season ticket. Of course he doesn't, all he expects is a return through success on the field.

These guys at Rangers are exactly the same and while they can't maintain the current situation indefinitely it's certainly beginning to pay dividends right now. They're ripping it up in the EL plus looking good for a league title and a crack at the CL.

 

If they can make that CL group stage which I doubt too many professional gamblers would bet against right now mission accomplished. They will earn a minimum £50 million or so and move on to an even financial footing.

And all that's aside from the huge investments they have on the field such as Kent, Morelos, Barisic, Tavernier, Aribo and more some of whom will be cashed in for big money at some point.

But I doubt that will happen before the mission accomplished point.

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On 03/12/2020 at 22:09, Boy Daniel said:

The Masons must be bricking it. 

Do you know anything about masons ? I dont so I dont make assertions about them !!

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8 minutes ago, Sherbet said:

Do you know anything about masons ? I dont so I dont make assertions about them !!

Spoken like a true mason😉🤣

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1 hour ago, JFK-1 said:

Predictions of financial meltdown for Rangers are straight out of the Celtic fantasy pool. They have been going into liquidation "next quarter" for years now.

It's not going to happen. They are running at a loss but owe money to no one but directors who aren't in it to make money. You might consider them fans.

Does a Hearts fan expect a financial return on his investment when he puts money into Hearts through any means such as simply buying a season ticket. Of course he doesn't, all he expects is a return through success on the field.

These guys at Rangers are exactly the same and while they can't maintain the current situation indefinitely it's certainly beginning to pay dividends right now. They're ripping it up in the EL plus looking good for a league title and a crack at the CL.

 

If they can make that CL group stage which I doubt too many professional gamblers would bet against right now mission accomplished. They will earn a minimum £50 million or so and move on to an even financial footing.

And all that's aside from the huge investments they have on the field such as Kent, Morelos, Barisic, Tavernier, Aribo and more some of whom will be cashed in for big money at some point.

But I doubt that will happen before the mission accomplished point.

Spot on - unfortunately. The only way they would have been in bother would have been failure to qualify for the group stages.  The other half of the arse cheeks will be raging.

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On 12/12/2020 at 08:47, Sherbet said:

Do you know anything about masons ? I dont so I dont make assertions about them !!

I think they're an organisation similar to the Knights of St Columba

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Footballfirst
2 minutes ago, sadj said:

Aside from whats on the gov website whats the ins and outs of this FF , for us poor laymanni types 

 

It's basically an inquiry into price fixing across the retailers.

 

There has to be a suspicion that some party has complained to the competition authorities that they were not allowed differential pricing or that they were excluded all together.  Sports Direct/Mike Ashley?

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  • cosanostra changed the title to Sevco are as stupid as we thought

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