Sharpie Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 (edited) When I started in the police in Canada in 1969 the area I worked in was frequented by younger people, and many what in the day were referred to as hippies. It was a pretty slow night if there was not at least one arrest for possession of marijuana. Young people many students were charged and convicted of possession. As a polic e offic er one just considered it a part of the job and it was done without malice or consideration. Later much later in life I met people who had been convicted of possession, some it had affected their university completion, some went to jail and some for years have been refused entry into the United States as a result of their convictions. When given responsibility for departmental recruitment following policy I asked about marijuana use, a positive response meant automatic rejection. In later years it was considered that use was so prevalent that if an applicant said no, he/she was probably not being truthful, so the question became redundant. Over the years I have often thought about some of the arrests I made or supervised, the rec ruits I rejec ted and the people who were unable to travel back and fore to the States. I have not reached the sack cloth and ashes stage but I often wonder how it impac ted the lives of many of these young people. Today it was announced that Canada will be giving Pardons to over 200,000 people who were convicted of possession, no cost and immediate. Despite my confidence that I done what I was mandated to do the Pardons are good, but deep down I can say I have for a long time wondered if it was all worth it, it was primarily just the times, but it is the only police ac tions I have carried out that have given me any cause for looking back and questioning Edited August 2, 2019 by bobsharp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlimOzturk Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 You were doing your job. Ultimately it was illegal at the time and the people who got arrested only have themselves to blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, bobsharp said: Today it was announced that Canada will be giving Pardons to over 200,000 people who were convicted of possession, no cost and immediate. Good stuff, well done Canada. Not your fault for upholding a shitty law. Edited August 2, 2019 by Ray Gin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locky Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 Nothing you could do about it Bob. It would've caused you more hassle had you turned the blind eye and been caught for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted August 2, 2019 Author Share Posted August 2, 2019 Thanks for the replies, I am not really concerned about it, as said they were doing something and getting in trouble, If I wasn't doing something I would have been in trouble. The only thinking point is how something that was so rigidly enforced become something that over the ensuing fifty years became less and less an offense until it in fact has become legal, and further has now been totally forgiven. I just wonder how some seventy year old man is thinking if he lost because of his conviction a career and thus a life that would have been so different to what he had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey J J Jr Shabadoo Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 (edited) Similar to homosexuality being illegal, and people now being pardoned. We are living in more enlightened times, with fewer people believing in God. Edited August 2, 2019 by Joey J J Jr Shabadoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maple Leaf Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 12 hours ago, bobsharp said: When I started in the police in Canada in 1969 the area I worked in was frequented by younger people, and many what in the day were referred to as hippies. It was a pretty slow night if there was not at least one arrest for possession of marijuana. Young people many students were charged and convicted of possession. As a polic e offic er one just considered it a part of the job and it was done without malice or consideration. Later much later in life I met people who had been convicted of possession, some it had affected their university completion, some went to jail and some for years have been refused entry into the United States as a result of their convictions. When given responsibility for departmental recruitment following policy I asked about marijuana use, a positive response meant automatic rejection. In later years it was considered that use was so prevalent that if an applicant said no, he/she was probably not being truthful, so the question became redundant. Over the years I have often thought about some of the arrests I made or supervised, the rec ruits I rejec ted and the people who were unable to travel back and fore to the States. I have not reached the sack cloth and ashes stage but I often wonder how it impac ted the lives of many of these young people. Today it was announced that Canada will be giving Pardons to over 200,000 people who were convicted of possession, no cost and immediate. Despite my confidence that I done what I was mandated to do the Pardons are good, but deep down I can say I have for a long time wondered if it was all worth it, it was primarily just the times, but it is the only police ac tions I have carried out that have given me any cause for looking back and questioning The police don't make the laws, they are only required to enforce them. You were required to enforce a law that, in hindsight, was heavy-handed. No doubt, the lives of some of the people convicted under those drug laws were negatively affected, but it's the lawmakers of the time who should be reflecting on that, not you and your colleagues who were doing your job. Something I've wondered since Canada made Mary Jane legal, what are all the cops doing who were in the vice squad and now have a lot less work to do? My local police budget went up again this year, like it does every year. Strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tynieman Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 I respect your threads and I like you Bob. However, it does show that blindly following the law is wrong. Someone mentioned when homosexuality was a crime. If you were in the job at the time, you may have arrested someone for their sexuality. I'm not a fan of the police overall, and the above highlights at times the issues of enforcing outdated and wrong laws. As least you have a conscious which many from the line of work, don't. This isn't designed to be a go at you btw! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forza Cuore Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 @bobsharp always enjoy your input and this is another thought provoking thread. As others have said, you were working within your capacity as a LEO so shouldn't feel you've impeded anyones life. They made their own choices. One thing I've heard is that the Canadian government has possibly set tax too high on Cannabis meaning there is a thriving black market? Not sure if you've heard anything like that? My cousin was a constable in the Calgary Police Service for sometime but was medically retired after an RTA and she is now a Union Leader there. Funny wee story, I visited her in the early 90s and we were in a pub with 7 or 8 of her colleagues one Friday night when some guy came up to our table and asked me if he could buy some of the 'stuff' I was selling....poor guy almost fainted when she told him the whole table were Police 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted August 2, 2019 Share Posted August 2, 2019 5 hours ago, Tynieman said: I respect your threads and I like you Bob. However, it does show that blindly following the law is wrong. Someone mentioned when homosexuality was a crime. If you were in the job at the time, you may have arrested someone for their sexuality. I'm not a fan of the police overall, and the above highlights at times the issues of enforcing outdated and wrong laws. As least you have a conscious which many from the line of work, don't. This isn't designed to be a go at you btw! The police ain't perfect but as long as they correctly enforce the law they can’t be blamed. Without the police most societies would be in a far worse state than they currently are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted August 2, 2019 Author Share Posted August 2, 2019 6 hours ago, Tynieman said: I respect your threads and I like you Bob. However, it does show that blindly following the law is wrong. Someone mentioned when homosexuality was a crime. If you were in the job at the time, you may have arrested someone for their sexuality. I'm not a fan of the police overall, and the above highlights at times the issues of enforcing outdated and wrong laws. As least you have a conscious which many from the line of work, don't. This isn't designed to be a go at you btw! Of course there are outdated and laws that in retrospect appear to have been at the least misguided. However the laws were there, and the public knew as well as the police what they were. Contravention could lead to apprehension. As a matter of fact I was directly involved in one arrest, it involved gross indecency, two males involved in oral sex. I had no qualms about making the arrest, and have had none since. Having had bad experiences as a young soldier in London with homosexual men who quite blatantly harrassed us to participate with them it was not a group of whom I was highly impressed by, in fact disliked very much. I can also assure you that no police were involved, but quite often one or a couple of guardsmen administered their own form of discipline, and not the type that by some could be seen as enjoyable. The two men I was directly involved with were breaking the law, and my ac tions were carried out in that regard. Pot smokers were the same thing, they were quite blatantly contravening well known statutes. The unfortunate thing that gives me reason to think was that the stigma of their arrest and conviction had a very adverse affect I am sure on a lot of lives. I however have no conscience re any of my actions, it just seems now when I look back that we were arresting and c harging people with offences that contained life changing affects. Quite often we the arresters finished work and went out and had a few glasses of legal mind changing drinks. But thats life as it is lived, one mans food is another mans poison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iantjambo Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 19 hours ago, Tynieman said: I respect your threads and I like you Bob. However, it does show that blindly following the law is wrong. Someone mentioned when homosexuality was a crime. If you were in the job at the time, you may have arrested someone for their sexuality. I'm not a fan of the police overall, and the above highlights at times the issues of enforcing outdated and wrong laws. As least you have a conscious which many from the line of work, don't. This isn't designed to be a go at you btw! Whether you think a law is wrong or outdated doesn’t really matter. It’s a law. You can’t blame the police for that. They don’t make the laws, they just enforce them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 On 02/08/2019 at 01:41, bobsharp said: When I started in the police in Canada in 1969 the area I worked in was frequented by younger people, and many what in the day were referred to as hippies. It was a pretty slow night if there was not at least one arrest for possession of marijuana. Young people many students were charged and convicted of possession. As a polic e offic er one just considered it a part of the job and it was done without malice or consideration. Later much later in life I met people who had been convicted of possession, some it had affected their university completion, some went to jail and some for years have been refused entry into the United States as a result of their convictions. When given responsibility for departmental recruitment following policy I asked about marijuana use, a positive response meant automatic rejection. In later years it was considered that use was so prevalent that if an applicant said no, he/she was probably not being truthful, so the question became redundant. Over the years I have often thought about some of the arrests I made or supervised, the rec ruits I rejec ted and the people who were unable to travel back and fore to the States. I have not reached the sack cloth and ashes stage but I often wonder how it impac ted the lives of many of these young people. Today it was announced that Canada will be giving Pardons to over 200,000 people who were convicted of possession, no cost and immediate. Despite my confidence that I done what I was mandated to do the Pardons are good, but deep down I can say I have for a long time wondered if it was all worth it, it was primarily just the times, but it is the only police ac tions I have carried out that have given me any cause for looking back and questioning Many years ago I got done for 7 roaches that were in an ashtray. 7 roaches that contained 0.00something milligrams. 😄 Went to court and a small fine. The police at the time I believe had been informed there would be a lot more than that to be found. The trouble was I'd been released the previous day from Polmont. Think they realised the information had been malicious. But the roaches covered the search warrant I suppose. That drugs charge didnt affect me as I wasnt a particularly upstanding citizen. I've had police search me and put hash back in my pocket. Like everyone says police are there to enforce the law . If I was a cop.(now now Bob dont choke on yer coffee) I'd have had a hard time policing things like the miners strike. On the drugs stuff I'd have probably just confiscated from the offenders. 😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EH11_2NL Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 20 hours ago, Tynieman said: I respect your threads and I like you Bob. However, it does show that blindly following the law is wrong. Someone mentioned when homosexuality was a crime. If you were in the job at the time, you may have arrested someone for their sexuality. I'm not a fan of the police overall, and the above highlights at times the issues of enforcing outdated and wrong laws. As least you have a conscious which many from the line of work, don't. This isn't designed to be a go at you btw! I am always intrigued when people post stuff like that. And always ask why that is the case. If it is because of one incident where the cop concerned was rude etc, then first impressions last. If it is because they've had multiple encounters then who's fault is that? To paint 'many' with having no conscious is nothing more than rhetoric. They have discretion to a point but ultimately laws have to be enforced. We don't always agree with them but such is life. Bob was doing his job in an era when there would be little room to manoeuvre discretion wise on the drugs laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maple Leaf Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 23 minutes ago, EH11_2NL said: I am always intrigued when people post stuff like that. And always ask why that is the case. If it is because of one incident where the cop concerned was rude etc, then first impressions last. If it is because they've had multiple encounters then who's fault is that? To paint 'many' with having no conscious is nothing more than rhetoric. They have discretion to a point but ultimately laws have to be enforced. We don't always agree with them but such is life. Bob was doing his job in an era when there would be little room to manoeuvre discretion wise on the drugs laws. A few years ago I owned a wine-making business. People came onto my premises to make wine for their personal consumption. Making wine for oneself is legal, but making it for resale is not. One day the police set up a sting operation, and I was charged with selling alcohol. It was a set up by the cops. Needless to say, I fought the charge in court. Two police officers took the stand to give evidence, and both lied through their teeth about the circumstances of the set-up. When I successfully challenged one of them over his testimony, he replied that it was acceptable to lie under oath in order to get a conviction. The judge threw the case out, and I've never regained my confidence in the police. But I still recognise the fact that, for the most part, they do a hard job under difficult circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, jake said: I've had police search me and put hash back in my pocket. On the drugs stuff I'd have probably just confiscated from the offenders. I've had both happen to me as a younger man. I was reasonably well known to the local constabulary, but more as a general nuisance than an baddie. I must admit, I'll be forever grateful to those coppers. I could never have gone on the have the career I have, or have led the life I live, had any drugs charge been on my record. Hindsight is a great thing, but as a kid/young man with no real concept of the future beyond the next weekend, it would've been easy to screw it all up before it had even really started. This is not a dig at you, Bob, but I'm glad those rozzers had more sense than I did, and used their discretion to protect the future of a young man who was still too daft to look after it for himself. The men and women of Oxgangs, Wester Hailes, and Torphichen Street cop shops, I salute you. Lothian and Borders finest. I have a number of friends and relatives working for Police Scotland, and the impression I get is that type of discression is no longer possible under the Strathclyde model. Edited August 3, 2019 by Governor Tarkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said: I've had both happen to me as a younger man. I was reasonably well known to the local constabulary, but more as a general nuisance than an baddie. I must admit, I'll be forever grateful to those coppers. I could never have gone on the have the career I have, or have led the life I live, had any drugs charge been on my record. Hindsight is a great thing, but as a kid/young man with no real concept of the future beyond the next weekend, it would've been easy to screw it all up before it had even really started. This is not a dig at you, Bob, but I'm glad those rozzers had more sense than I did, and used their discretion to protect the future of a young man who was still too daft to look after it for himself. The men and women of Oxgangs, Wester Hailes, and Torphichen Street cop shops, I salute you. Lothian and Borders finest. I have a number of friends and relatives working for Police Scotland, and the impression I get is that type of discression is no longer possible under the Strathclyde model. It's the wee moments that often lead to bigger stuff mate. Took me a long time to get my head together. Or I should say it's taking me a long time. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tynieman Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, EH11_2NL said: I am always intrigued when people post stuff like that. And always ask why that is the case. If it is because of one incident where the cop concerned was rude etc, then first impressions last. If it is because they've had multiple encounters then who's fault is that? To paint 'many' with having no conscious is nothing more than rhetoric. They have discretion to a point but ultimately laws have to be enforced. We don't always agree with them but such is life. Bob was doing his job in an era when there would be little room to manoeuvre discretion wise on the drugs laws. I've had a few dealings with the police when I was much younger (and thankfully just avoided a criminal conviction when I was 16). However, I grew up a lot around the police, especially being from the area I grew up in. My, and many others, experience of the police is that they tend to want to arrest anyone, no matter how small the crime even when if is wrong to do so. An example is targeting people who have an addiction issue. It ensures they have high conviction rates regardless of the consequences for said person. I've known several people who have been beaten up by the police, which still happens a lot. Many of these people did very little wrong apart from maybe mouthing off a bit. A very close relative of mine still has the scar on his stomach to this day, this being there because he was given a kicking by the boys in blue at 15 years old. Also, the criminal justice is felt mostly by the poor the Majority of the time. I have never had dealings with the police since I've been young and still see some shocking behavior from them, with very little consequence. Bob has openly admitted that in the past he occasionally dealt out the odd blow to someone who he'd arrested - and this still happens frequently. There's sure to be good officers out there, I'm not saying there isn't. However, many of the resources are focused on the wrong things such as the war on drugs, which can result in some poor addict being arrested, charged and eventually leading to convictions, which ruin people's life. I appreciate the argument could be had that the police don't make the laws but by joining the force, they are agreeing to follow all directions, even if they don't agree with it. Ultimately, again I'll mention, this ruins many life's when there is no need to. I hope this creates a bit of understanding why there are feelings of dislike towards the police. Edited August 3, 2019 by Tynieman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: 7 roaches FFS. Can I ask how they knew they contained pot. Did they test you or just do you under paranalia? Seems a complete waste of time and money on everyone’s part. Did it go on you record? On the police, as you and others say they’re just enforcing the laws. They don’t make the However, as with anything there are some good and some not so good people in the police force and that will be reflected I’m their actions. Got tested I'd imagine 0.00 something milligrams. 50 pound fine at Edinburgh sheriff. So it would have been on my record. Like I said they were expecting to find something a bit more substantial. And not hash. I wasnt a dealer never have been. Edited August 3, 2019 by jake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EH11_2NL Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Maple Leaf said: A few years ago I owned a wine-making business. People came onto my premises to make wine for their personal consumption. Making wine for oneself is legal, but making it for resale is not. One day the police set up a sting operation, and I was charged with selling alcohol. It was a set up by the cops. Needless to say, I fought the charge in court. Two police officers took the stand to give evidence, and both lied through their teeth about the circumstances of the set-up. When I successfully challenged one of them over his testimony, he replied that it was acceptable to lie under oath in order to get a conviction. The judge threw the case out, and I've never regained my confidence in the police. But I still recognise the fact that, for the most part, they do a hard job under difficult circumstances. No it isn't. Ever. Under any circumstances. And thankfully the judge saw through that and hopefully that cop is picking up soap in the shower in some zoo of a jail somewhere. And the job has never been harder than it is at the moment. Tory party have decimated numbers. Morale is at rock bottom. Zero support from a hostile media. My parting shot is always, what would happen without them? They will always have bad apples and practices that went on in the past don't happen now no matter what your mates tell you about being beaten up. Most Cops now don't have the bottle anyway for a fight and it's too easy to lose your job when it isn't worth it. The VAST majority of cops still join for the same reason. To make society a better place and to help those that can't help themselves. Bottom line. Behave and you won't attract the cops. I've managed it for 50 years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted August 3, 2019 Author Share Posted August 3, 2019 I hav to reply to some of the comments and surprisingly do not disagree with any of them. First of all for myself. I was raised in a totally different age than most. The one word that was most commonly used was discipline. It started right in the home, mother dispensed Justice, father was the arbitrator and decided if heavier punishment was required. School came next, somebody spoke, teacher peed off we all then sat with our hands over our mouth so nothing could be spoken. Often we were punished for having to sit for extended periods with our hands linked over our heads. A bit older 12 weeks at the Guards Depot, learned that there was no such thing as an individual. We all had to stay in step learn acceptable behaviour and accept punishment for breach of the rules. Next stage police, three months training, worked with older policemen, always impressed that we are all for one and one for all. Was I an angel, not at all, did I use my own form of discipline, you bet. When you were out on your own at two in the morning at the intersection of Hay Drive and niddrie Mains Terrace, no radios, no handcuffs, a whistle and a wee baton, the people you were dealing with had to know what you were capable of and how you would do it. Lots of talk about using discretion, of course I and we did, but there were some areas that it just wasn't prctical. Self preservation rules, you let someone off, he tells his buddies the next thing you are under investigation for neglect of duty. Is lying on oath acceptable is it done absolutely, I had two colleagues fired after getting caught lying about an impaired driving case. Are cops angels no, are they now what I was, absolutely no comparison whatsoever. A totally different job, a totally different generation, and quite frankly not for the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted August 3, 2019 Author Share Posted August 3, 2019 47 minutes ago, bobsharp said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertonian_II Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 On 02/08/2019 at 01:41, bobsharp said: When I started in the police in Canada in 1969 the area I worked in was frequented by younger people, and many what in the day were referred to as hippies. It was a pretty slow night if there was not at least one arrest for possession of marijuana. Young people many students were charged and convicted of possession. As a polic e offic er one just considered it a part of the job and it was done without malice or consideration. Later much later in life I met people who had been convicted of possession, some it had affected their university completion, some went to jail and some for years have been refused entry into the United States as a result of their convictions. When given responsibility for departmental recruitment following policy I asked about marijuana use, a positive response meant automatic rejection. In later years it was considered that use was so prevalent that if an applicant said no, he/she was probably not being truthful, so the question became redundant. Over the years I have often thought about some of the arrests I made or supervised, the rec ruits I rejec ted and the people who were unable to travel back and fore to the States. I have not reached the sack cloth and ashes stage but I often wonder how it impac ted the lives of many of these young people. Today it was announced that Canada will be giving Pardons to over 200,000 people who were convicted of possession, no cost and immediate. Despite my confidence that I done what I was mandated to do the Pardons are good, but deep down I can say I have for a long time wondered if it was all worth it, it was primarily just the times, but it is the only police ac tions I have carried out that have given me any cause for looking back and questioning Interesting post given that I'm not long back from Victoria BC visiting for a family wedding. My younger brother(58) was quite happy to show me his cannabis plants alongside his vegetable patch 😁 as it's all legal there now😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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