Hungry hippo Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 15 minutes ago, ArcticJambo said: Not disagreeing with anybody particularly but I've outlined what I think went wrong (and a lot of that is down to great work from both Stanton and Shankland) so it would be interesting to see other takes on Berra and Hickey's movement/positioning/actions. If you can't be arsed then fair enough. Berra's getting slated on another thread so it's not just Bobbys being criticised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabgee Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 Bobby was too far away from his goal when there was no need to commit himself (just like the “penalty” in the final) defence was poor and everyone seemed to be caught cold. Berra looks to have lost sharpness and if Souttar stays beyond the transfer window I think we will see Halkett partnering him in the centre of defence before too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticJambo Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Hungry hippo said: Berra's getting slated on another thread so it's not just Bobbys being criticised. Okay, will check that out later; think I'll pop off to New Dundas Park the now though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 23 minutes ago, Hungry hippo said: There were several mistakes including Bobby's positioning which was poor. Utter Baloney re Bobby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 Gordon would be an instant upgrade. Bobby is erratic. I don't like goalies who are erratic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bighenry Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 Bobbys positioning was poor. He gave shankland an open goal. His place should have been just in front and side of the front post. Close enough to turn his body, move his feet and face the header. That said, he may still have scored regardless. Hardly a howler tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 According to our esteemed coaching staff we don't need another keeper. I beg to differ. Far too many mistakes by our two options from last season and then Bobby being out of position last night does not fill me with confidence. Berra needs to have a critical look at his recent performances and see what he thinks about is capabilities to continue at this level especially for the coming season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Normthebarman said: He's better than or equal to Moilanen, Banks, Hamilton, Macdonald or Kello, in my opinion. All keepers we've had in the last few decades. In fact the only keepers I'd say were definitely better were Niemi, Gordon, McLaughlin, Rousset and Smith. Who were all utterly outstanding goalies. And even then, they all had some absolute clangers that cost us games. He also gained us a fair few points last season. People focus on the odd mistakes and the Livi horror story. They forget he pulled off some top class saves the likes of Gordon and Niemi would be jealous of. Same as my work really. I get hauled across the coals if I feck up but usually ignored when things go well. Funny that. I want utterly outstanding. In fact, I expect it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 1 hour ago, CJGJ said: Correct and Hickey should have got on the other side of Shankland The Keeper was not to blame, the marking in the six yard box was poor The biggest mistake was Berra, he should have stuck the ball in row Z, then when it comes back Souttar is slow to react, then when it’s played to Stanton, Michael Smiths a bit slow to read it. What folk are failing to realise is that Bobby actually comes to anticipate a shot by Stanton and the reason he moves forward from his near post is because if Stanton hits it, Bobby saves the ball and it goes safe, either wide, over to the right touchline or whatever because he’s narrowed the angle. It cannot go in off him whatever happens. If he stands on his post and the shot comes in, there is a likelihood of him saving it but the ball going towards to center, the edge of the box into danger or in off him at his near post. The simple fact of he matter is, that ball should have got nowhere near Stanton or Shankland in the first place. Yet it’s all Bobbys fault. Un-feckin-believable this place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section Q Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 4 hours ago, been here before said: One game into season, one game. Some folk just cant wait. Start a thread called "Bobby at Utd goal" and then say its nothing to do with their goal. Berra made 2 mistakes in the lead up to Utds goal- be as well punting him as well. He finished the season out of position too in the SC final to give Celtic their goal. Levein will be taking note I expect. He did redeem himself with his penalty save last night. I wouldnt be too disappointed though if we signed another keeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queensferryjambo Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 Bobby is a decent keeper who has made some good and a couple of great and important saves for us. This nonsense happens to every keeper we have on here every time we lose a goal. When MacDonald was in goals people were screaming for Ridgers to get a game, Alexander was in and they were screaming to give Hamilton a chance, Hamilton was in and people were screaming for Noring. Last season people were screaming for Doyle instead of Bobby. Over the piece I would say the better of our keepers all kept or regained their places and the people screaming for the back up keepers would hopefully have seen that over the piece the better was in goals. Bobby is the least of our problems and you would be surprised to hear he saved a penalty last night to give us an extra point in the group that will probably be the difference between us winning the group or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscjambo Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 Thought Berra was at fault with the goal, not clearing it properly. Bobby is decent not outstanding but not awful either. As previously said I think Harry Stone will eventually get it, age isn't a barrier. If Dounaruma at AC Milan can do it.. One game in let's give it time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychedelicropcircle Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 5 hours ago, hoof.hearted said: When my son played under 12's football in goals he was constantly being told to be aware where you are in relation to the goals, watch the ball but don't be drawn out by it (1 on 1 is different obviously). Guess Bobby was never told this. I didn't notice it at the game but saw goal on TV later and he was way too far out and Shankland had nobody to beat. We need a new keeper. Not because of their goal but because 1st meaningful game back and here we go again. Last season was on the move before the penalty taker connected with the ball every time! Wots PG doing in training? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougal Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 4 hours ago, Walrus said: Posted this in other Bobby thread. To be honest United should never be scoring in that situation. Seven hearts players inside the 18 yard box with 6 of them within in 10 yards of the ball and only 2 United players in the box. Positioning from the goalie is extremely poor. This is the sort of thing a goal keeping coach needs to be working on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 4 hours ago, Walrus said: Posted this in other Bobby thread. I'm confused. Is this post in defense of Zlamal or slating him? Positioning looks almost spot on to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 11 minutes ago, dougal said: To be honest United should never be scoring in that situation. Seven hearts players inside the 18 yard box with 6 of them within in 10 yards of the ball and only 2 United players in the box. Positioning from the goalie is extremely poor. This is the sort of thing a goal keeping coach needs to be working on. Where should he have been, in that photo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
been here before Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, graygo said: Where should he have been, in that photo? Edited July 13, 2019 by been here before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 1 minute ago, been here before said: It did cross my mind that that would be the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
been here before Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 Just now, graygo said: It did cross my mind that that would be the answer. Too quick man, too quick!! 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, been here before said: Too quick man, too quick!! 😆 Aw man you've added the word FACT to it so it must be true. Can you add arrows from the other players who were out of position as well? 👍 We'll get the Georgie stand filled before the end of the season. Edited July 13, 2019 by graygo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodanny Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 4 hours ago, TheOak88 said: Try to argue the point not the poster, you will get more out of it in the long run. I remember now why I put him on ignore a long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
been here before Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, graygo said: Aw man you've added the word FACT to it so it must be true. Can you add arrows from the other players who were out of position as well? 👍 We'll get the Georgie stand filled before the end of the season. Sorry I would but Im struggling just now with finding out some anonymous faceless nonentity on an internet message board has popped up on a random thread to tell some other nom de plume he has me "on ignore". #crushed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLTFTh Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 Bobby is not at fault i any way IMHO. As that ex vermin player gathers the ball Bobby narrows the angle for any shot coming in from that position thus is then away from the front stick. Unfortunately at that moment in time he is left exposed from any cross ball, we all know what happened next. It's a no win scenario for any Keeper at any level. If Bobby remained at or near his front stick he then offers up more of the goal to any possible shot coming at him and would have been castrated from the usual culprits on here if that had been the case. We should really be rewinding back to when Berra had the opportunity to clear but failed and put the back line under.. Bobby is the least of our worries this early in the season tbf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walrus Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 1 hour ago, graygo said: I'm confused. Is this post in defense of Zlamal or slating him? Positioning looks almost spot on to me. It's to help people make up their own mind. My opinion is that he is slightly too wide. Stanton would be doing well to score from that angle with defender sliding in. Berra and Hickey were more to blame though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross-l Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 Personally I think zamal is in a poor position. He should be at more of an angle to cover both a near post shot and a ball across the 6 yard line. Purely my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmreido Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 5 hours ago, Olly Lee's left boot said: Gordon would be an instant upgrade. Bobby is erratic. I don't like goalies who are erratic. Yep, would Craig Gordon back in a heart beat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oh ah grantona Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 Amazed so many want to defend a very poor keeper The last 3 competitive goals he has conceded I would put him high on the list of blame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 4 hours ago, dougal said: To be honest United should never be scoring in that situation. Seven hearts players inside the 18 yard box with 6 of them within in 10 yards of the ball and only 2 United players in the box. Positioning from the goalie is extremely poor. This is the sort of thing a goal keeping coach needs to be working on. Berra ball watching as well. Hickey trying to get back to cover but wrong side of Shankland. I notice to that Bobby still moves to soon for the penalties making it easier for the taker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 5 hours ago, been here before said: Sorry I would but Im struggling just now with finding out some anonymous faceless nonentity on an internet message board has popped up on a random thread to tell some other nom de plume he has me "on ignore". #crushed. I feel your pain man, that must be soul destroying. ☹️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 5 hours ago, NLTFTh said: Bobby is not at fault i any way IMHO. As that ex vermin player gathers the ball Bobby narrows the angle for any shot coming in from that position thus is then away from the front stick. Unfortunately at that moment in time he is left exposed from any cross ball, we all know what happened next. It's a no win scenario for any Keeper at any level. If Bobby remained at or near his front stick he then offers up more of the goal to any possible shot coming at him and would have been castrated from the usual culprits on here if that had been the case. We should really be rewinding back to when Berra had the opportunity to clear but failed and put the back line under.. Bobby is the least of our worries this early in the season tbf Exactly how I see it, but I was a shite keeper to be fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 5 hours ago, Walrus said: It's to help people make up their own mind. My opinion is that he is slightly too wide. Stanton would be doing well to score from that angle with defender sliding in. Berra and Hickey were more to blame though. I get what you're saying but as a keeper it is very difficult to put your trust completely on a defender sliding in, your instinct is to cover any possible shot and hope that the other defenders will cope if he cuts it back. Bobby was in the correct position imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 His positioning wasn't great but what are the options???Even worse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 4 hours ago, rmreido said: Yep, would Craig Gordon back in a heart beat People letting memories get in the way of the real present day Craig Gordon Still attending a private Edinburgh Hospital for treatment and struggling for fitness but you go ahead and waste our money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
been here before Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 (edited) Ive went out on a bit of a limb here but before anyine shoots me down, hear me out. If we imagine for a moment Bobby had been dropped and say replaced by a purple 6 armed octopus type creature with greater positional sense then its obvious Shankland would never have scored. Ive included a graphic which I hope makes the point... Edited July 13, 2019 by been here before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 6 hours ago, Walrus said: It's to help people make up their own mind. My opinion is that he is slightly too wide. Stanton would be doing well to score from that angle with defender sliding in. Berra and Hickey were more to blame though. And just what is your expertise re goalkeeping ?...……………..TV viewing I suspect Imagine he had scored you and others would be spending days telling us about covering the near post If only you had simply stuck to your point re Berra and Hickey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLTFTh Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, graygo said: Exactly how I see it, but I was a shite keeper to be fair. He's Not our greatest keeper but he is the best we will have for the foreseeable future.. Always expect the unexpected is what you learn but nobody can cover 2 positions at once or allow for those in front of you to make an erse of things... As for those touting Craigie G.. Seen better days, still cannot come for a cross, lol... He'd get torn apart on here at his 1st mistake just like the rest... Edited July 13, 2019 by NLTFTh missed out a "d" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queensferryjambo Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 4 hours ago, oh ah grantona said: The last 3 competitive goals he has conceded I would put him high on the list of blame You think Zlamal was to blame for the second goal in the scottish cup final? He never stood a chance when Edouard was allowed to run through unchallenged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 14 hours ago, Normthebarman said: He's better than or equal to Moilanen, Banks, Hamilton, Macdonald or Kello, in my opinion. All keepers we've had in the last few decades. In fact the only keepers I'd say were definitely better were Niemi, Gordon, McLaughlin, Rousset and Smith. Who were all utterly outstanding goalies. And even then, they all had some absolute clangers that cost us games. He also gained us a fair few points last season. People focus on the odd mistakes and the Livi horror story. They forget he pulled off some top class saves the likes of Gordon and Niemi would be jealous of. No they wouldnt. Henry Smith’s still better! Mediocre. Easter Road. Almost sounds the same IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walrus Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 7 hours ago, CJGJ said: And just what is your expertise re goalkeeping ?...……………..TV viewing I suspect Imagine he had scored you and others would be spending days telling us about covering the near post If only you had simply stuck to your point re Berra and Hickey 😂 I haven't claimed to have any expertise in goalkeeping. I thought he was out at the time of the goal, and still think that when I watch it back. It's an opinion. Stanton would be doing very well to score into the near post from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougal Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 16 hours ago, graygo said: Where should he have been, in that photo? He needs to be closer to the goal. Almost in line with shankland. Close enough that he's still able to cover near post but also so that he can at least cover some of the goal (from a cross). His position at the goal while covering the front post does mean none of the goal covered if a cross comes in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amadjambo Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 Bobby is an OK keeper. He will make some terrific saves and also make some howlers. Doyle is honking. Personally disappointed we didn’t sign a more reliable keeper but I’m guessing it comes down to money and the fact our two are under contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 7 hours ago, Pans Jambo said: No they wouldnt. Henry Smith’s still better! Mediocre. Easter Road. Almost sounds the same IMO. I think they would. And there's no ****ing way Henry was better than Niemi and Gordon. That's just crazy talk. I loved Henry and I still remember his absolute, had no right to make it, wonder save against 'Well as probably the best I've seen. But no chance he was better then Niemi and Gordon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 Although, now I've been up a bit longer I'm beginning to think the exclamation mark implies you had tongue in cheek a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 46 minutes ago, Normthebarman said: I think they would. And there's no ****ing way Henry was better than Niemi and Gordon. That's just crazy talk. I loved Henry and I still remember his absolute, had no right to make it, wonder save against 'Well as probably the best I've seen. But no chance he was better then Niemi and Gordon. Not suggesting he is but he was better that Zlamal. We need a decent keeper. Not enough that he pulls off a good save or two. He needs to be more consistent and the defenders in front of him need to be able to trust him. I dont believe they do. I dont. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Green Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 See folk who are saying he was out of position, you do realise he was closing the angle for the utd player to strike at? If he has stayed in the middle and the utd player had beaten him at his near post you would have all slated him for that 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locky Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 On 13/07/2019 at 12:29, OTT said: Yup. I think its 2 key positions we could do better in. Washington obviously needs time, Scottish football is much quicker than english football so perhaps that is something he needs to get up to speed with. Irrespective of that, I still think nabbing Cummings would be a sensible signing. Not interested too much in debating this, he's a player some fans just ****ing hate. He started strongly at Peterborough but fell away a bit. Coming home might suit him. 3 strong seasons in the league below with a predictable flop when he went down south (too early IMO), coming back up makes sense. I accept he's never played in the Scottish top flight so it might be a risk, I don't think you get a move down south if there isn't a belief from experienced scouts that you have talent. I've been screaming Zander Clark from the rooftops as a replacement for Bobby. We can't have a goalkeeper we don't have confidence in. Need to make a step up here ASAP and Clark only has a year on his contract left. Would be silly not to try and see what St J are looking for to get him now. Gordon will be 38 next year and isn't a long term solution. I don't know how Harry Stone fits into this jigsaw, perhaps Levein see's Bobby for this season, Gordon to come in on a free next season and Stone start to feature the season following that? Personally wouldn't say no either. Boyhood Hearts fan, and a lot of ability too. He's had his moments off the park, but nothing other than daft young laddie things. Hibs seem to have a culture among younger players where there's no limits to how you conduct yourself. Look at Riordan, O'Connor etc. And Cummings looked like going down that road a bit. We've never really had much trouble from younger players. I think there seems to be a lot of work put in to make surel ads conduct themselves as a professional and representative of HMFC both on, and off the park. With that in mind, and the stern arm of Levein around his shoulders at all times, he'd flourish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rambothejambo Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 On 13/07/2019 at 23:02, been here before said: Ive went out on a bit of a limb here but before anyine shoots me down, hear me out. If we imagine for a moment Bobby had been dropped and say replaced by a purple 6 armed octopus type creature with greater positional sense then its obvious Shankland would never have scored. Ive included a graphic which I hope makes the point... Has to be one of the funniest posts on JKB for a while. Sitting here at my work pishing myself, superb! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HMFC86 Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 On 14/07/2019 at 08:20, dougal said: He needs to be closer to the goal. Almost in line with shankland. Close enough that he's still able to cover near post but also so that he can at least cover some of the goal (from a cross). His position at the goal while covering the front post does mean none of the goal covered if a cross comes in. Absolutely correct. Positioning is poor & he also doesn’t move his feet quickly enough. As others have said Berra should have stopped it at the start. But that doesn’t take away from Zlamal being poor. New keeper needed, as he will cost us games as he did last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diadora Van Basten Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 Life of a goalkeeper I suppose. I would have gave Bobby a seven out of ten, six for his general performance and an extra mark for saving Clark’s shot. I read in Tim Howard’s autobiography that when he was at Man Utd if he came out he got stick and if he stayed on his line he got stick. I think if you are a goalkeeper you go with your instincts and if you get it wrong you don’t let it effect you and just get on with the game. I didn’t think watching the game it was a chance that the keeper should save. If a ball is cut back then the striker has the option and angle to go either way so the keeper has little chance of saving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 On 13/07/2019 at 10:49, been here before said: Brilliant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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