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Selling the Club


Armageddon

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Armageddon

So, with all the chatter on Hubs and their new :

 

Would you want somebody to buy us?  After all the amazing work done so far we are a very attractive brand IMO, but after what happened before would we ever want a return to that potential?

 

What kind of money would it take for somebody to come in and buy us?

 

Would you still pledge your FOH if it was directed to a specific part of the club and used effectively?  Or maybe filtered into an account and left to build for many years with an annual contribution being made to the club for a specific purpose.

 

 

 

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scott herbertson

1..No - what would they be in it for, would be the question I would ask, and how safe would the future of the club be in their hands, and what happens when they want to sell on

 

2...See above - if they want to buy us they want a profit 

 

3.... No, I wouldn't pledge anymore aunless the money was to be held away from hearts against a 'rainy day' scenario - eg the potential to buy back the club if it goes into administration

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8 minutes ago, Armageddon said:

So, with all the chatter on Hubs and their new :

 

Would you want somebody to buy us?  After all the amazing work done so far we are a very attractive brand IMO, but after what happened before would we ever want a return to that potential?

 

What kind of money would it take for somebody to come in and buy us?

 

Would you still pledge your FOH if it was directed to a specific part of the club and used effectively?  Or maybe filtered into an account and left to build for many years with an annual contribution being made to the club for a specific purpose.

 

 

 

 

It's very unlikely to ever happen once AB sells to FOH.

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Unknown user

The only person I'd want to take over Hearts would be a proper, proper Hearts fan with LOADS of cash, I mean hundreds of millions, enough to absorb mistakes, gambles etc.

 

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Francis Albert

Agree above (Iie no sale) From memory a decision to sell would require a super majority of Foh members (90% plus?). 8m quid would give each member £1000. 80m would give 10000 each. Can't see it voted through at any feasible sale price.

Edited by Francis Albert
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Dagger Is Back
11 minutes ago, scott herbertson said:

1..No - what would they be in it for, would be the question I would ask, and how safe would the future of the club be in their hands, and what happens when they want to sell on

 

2...See above - if they want to buy us they want a profit 

 

3.... No, I wouldn't pledge anymore aunless the money was to be held away from hearts against a 'rainy day' scenario - eg the potential to buy back the club if it goes into administration

 

Where I am too.

 

Did wonder what would happen when I won the lottery and wanted to buy the club but I'd just become a benefactor as others have done.

 

There are certainly going to be interesting times ahead as we move into fan ownership. It ain't all going to be plain sailing either I suspect

 

 

 

 

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Cruyff Turn

I’d prefer the fans had a controlling majority stake in the club, say 51% but would happily allow some rich bugger to buy the other 49%, if their intentions were to invest and improve the club. 

 

I think it would be silly to ever deny that opportunity.

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Rick James

Not interested in being bought over by anyone again. Wouldn't necessarily be opposed to a businessman/woman in the mould of Mrs Budge investing wisely in the club though.

 

Again, like SH, you have to question what's in it for them? If someone wants to buy into us to make big bucks, then they can do one.

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I would be willing to sell enough shares that we could splurge a bit but FOH remain the major shareholder. Obviously they would have to be vetted by kickback first.

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I am of the view that we have been incredibly fortuitous to have been able to buy the club at an affordable amount and equally fortunate that a rich fan helped us do that. The groundwork put in place by Ann Budge means we will be taking over a club that balances the books which is incredibly rare in football. 

I've gone from just contributing to help us survive to really looking forward to being a fully fan owned club. That in itself is something to be really proud of and is a legacy we can pass on to the next generation of Hearts supporters. I don't want to see any outside parties encroach on that, I couldn't see any good reason for someone to invest other than their ego or advertising their company. I would definitely be against either.

The club is now ran relevant to its size, offers a genuine path for young Scottish players to reach the first team and has an identity based on solid principals. I can identify with this in a way I couldn't with previous regimes. 

Edited by Jodami
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Fxxx the SPFL

What there not some guy a few years ago who was a jambo but moved to America when he was young and worked his way up from the ground floor to Chief executive or similar in General Motors who was thinking of investing think it was a good bit before the adminstration era. would never want us to sell though happy to accept mutil million pound donations.

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ToadKiller Dog

No I wouldn't back a sell off to an investor. Fans ownership is they forward. 

I don't belive any investor would do so with out looking for a return long term. 

 

Don't know enough to answer the second question over what a offer would be. 

 

Yes  would cancel my FOH if an investor took over the club. Im happy to pay my subs for as long as able as long as we own the club. 

 

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Jim Panzee
7 minutes ago, Jodami said:

I am of the view that we have been incredibly fortuitous to have been able to buy the club at an affordable amount and equally fortunate that a rich fan helped us do that. The groundwork put in place by Ann Budge means we will be taking over a club that balances the books which is incredibly rare in football. 

I've gone from just contributing to help us survive to really looking forward to being a fully fan owned club. That in itself is something to be really proud of and is a legacy we can pass on to the next generation of Hearts supporters. I don't want to see any outside parties encroach on that, I couldn't see any good reason for someone to invest other than their ego or advertising their company. I would definitely be against either.

The club is now ran relevant to its size, offers a genuine path for Scottish players to reach the first team and has an identity based on solid principals. I can identify with this in a way I couldn't with previous regimes. 

Spot on. We've been very lucky to have both a Hearts fan and sound business person to guide us to where we are now.

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Anyone able to fill me in on what's happening with the vermin? I got emptied (and rightly so) pretty early from the Hibs thread for abusing an obvious undercover spoon burner. 

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Hungry hippo
53 minutes ago, Smithee said:

The only person I'd want to take over Hearts would be a proper, proper Hearts fan with LOADS of cash, I mean hundreds of millions, enough to absorb mistakes, gambles etc.

 

 

Even in that scenario the super rich PHM could still invest in the club without taking over the FoH shares.

 

We've already done the hard part of getting the fans to buy into the idea so I'd hate to ever throw that away.

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Finlay James

No, fan ownership all the way.  We are already the best run club in the country and it's only going to get better.

 

 

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In short term I see no chance of this happening.  Medium to longer term is a different matter.  It will depend on what success or lack of it we have.

 

Will we have enough spending power to succeed under fan control? We could easily become a mid table team. If this happens regularly I can see pressure to give up fan ownership.

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Well when I win the Euromillions I’ll be buying Hearts, so you better get used to one man being in control again. 

 

On the plus side my plans include only one section for the away side, regardless of who they are, beer taps next to every seat in the Wheatfield and free pyros on entry. 

 

So...how much ye wantin for yer shares then pal...?

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Hungry hippo
3 minutes ago, McCrae said:

In short term I see no chance of this happening.  Medium to longer term is a different matter.  It will depend on what success or lack of it we have.

 

Will we have enough spending power to succeed under fan control? We could easily become a mid table team. If this happens regularly I can see pressure to give up fan ownership.

 

We will have far greater investment from our owners that any other Scottish club out with Rangers whose directors etc seem happy to write off millions of their own cash which can't be sustainable. Celtic will rightly just continue to live of their income which will be plenty and American at Hibs will not waste his own money without chance of getting it back.

 

Nothing about this model should cause us to be mid table. Recently funding has been diverted to buy the club (ie repaying Ann Budge), invest in neglected infrastructure and build an £18m stand.  This will not be the case going forward and the full FoH income can be used for BAU. 

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adambraejambo

Dangerous road to go down again. We could get a really good owner who does well for us over the years but he or she won't last forever. At sometime they will sell the shares . I mean since i started going to games in 84 i have seen Mercer, Robinson, Romonov and now Budge. That's 4 owners We sell to someone now who knows how many owners we could have over next 30 years. Just takes 1 bad one and we fkd again.

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Jambojay84

I know this threads just a bit of fun but with brexit we’re seeing more Americans investing in Scottish teams for business reasons(which I’ve no idea about) Do any of the smarter posters think the same logic may be applied by your sheik mansour and co’s

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Armageddon
1 hour ago, Armageddon said:

So, with all the chatter on Hubs and their new :

 

Would you want somebody to buy us?  After all the amazing work done so far we are a very attractive brand IMO, but after what happened before would we ever want a return to that potential?

 

What kind of money would it take for somebody to come in and buy us?

 

Would you still pledge your FOH if it was directed to a specific part of the club and used effectively?  Or maybe filtered into an account and left to build for many years with an annual contribution being made to the club for a specific purpose.

 

 

 

 

Can't believe I missed my wee joke in the opening line (****!!)

 

So, with all the chatter on Hubs and their new 'Vladimir Ronaldov':

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12 minutes ago, Hungry hippo said:

 

We will have far greater investment from our owners that any other Scottish club out with Rangers whose directors etc seem happy to write off millions of their own cash which can't be sustainable. Celtic will rightly just continue to live of their income which will be plenty and American at Hibs will not waste his own money without chance of getting it back.

 

Nothing about this model should cause us to be mid table. Recently funding has been diverted to buy the club (ie repaying Ann Budge), invest in neglected infrastructure and build an £18m stand.  This will not be the case going forward and the full FoH income can be used for BAU. 

 

I hope you are right. I wonder though if the FOH contributions will continue at anywhere near the current rate once ownership has been completed?

 

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Jim Panzee
13 minutes ago, adambraejambo said:

Dangerous road to go down again. We could get a really good owner who does well for us over the years but he or she won't last forever. At sometime they will sell the shares . I mean since i started going to games in 84 i have seen Mercer, Robinson, Romonov and now Budge. That's 4 owners We sell to someone now who knows how many owners we could have over next 30 years. Just takes 1 bad one and we fkd again.

And this.

 

cannot believe after the dark hours only a handful of years ago that some folk are unhappy with Budge's leadership..

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Rocky jamboa

There wont be many owners putting £1.8m a year into a club and looking for nothing in return, other than the joy of watching their club. 

 

We could end up with a mike Ashley, running the club into the ground and bleeding them dry but the fans cant do anything about it. 

 

I hope we stay fan owned forever and stay in control of our own destiny. 

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kingantti1874

Only if the PSG or Man City owners fancy a Scottish sidebar project.. otherwise Na.

 

certainly wouldn’t sell to a guy of limited wealth, who’s going to be looking to make money not invested it like the hobos have just sold out to. 

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JamboGraham
27 minutes ago, Hungry hippo said:

 

We will have far greater investment from our owners that any other Scottish club out with Rangers whose directors etc seem happy to write off millions of their own cash which can't be sustainable. Celtic will rightly just continue to live of their income which will be plenty and American at Hibs will not waste his own money without chance of getting it back.

 

Nothing about this model should cause us to be mid table. Recently funding has been diverted to buy the club (ie repaying Ann Budge), invest in neglected infrastructure and build an £18m stand.  This will not be the case going forward and the full FoH income can be used for BAU. 

 

Never really thought of it like that before but yes...as far as on-going, no strings, no restrictions direct investment of working capital in the club I wouldn't anticipate many owners across the league putting in more (Celtic and Rangers aside).

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Ibrahim Tall
59 minutes ago, Hungry hippo said:

 

Even in that scenario the super rich PHM could still invest in the club without taking over the FoH shares.

 

We've already done the hard part of getting the fans to buy into the idea so I'd hate to ever throw that away.

 

Tbh I’m not sure that’d be realistic(first sentence).

 

Theoretically if I was e.g. a billionaire and planned to invest £100-200m in Hearts I don’t think I’d particularly be happy to just ‘give’ the money over without deciding on how and when it’s spent. 

‘Small’ scale investors chucking in a few hundred grand to million is one thing and it’d be unrealistic for them to assume they’d have control but it’s a different story when you start talking 8 or 9 figures.

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3fingersreid

Once bitten twice shy or fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me 

 

speaking to my hibs supporting friends and family many of them are very wary of what their new owners intentions are

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Footballfirst

The FOH super majority (90%) requirement will almost certainly prevent any sale, however advantageous it might be. 

 

It's the same with moving from Tynecastle. It's unlikely to happen. There will be too many pledgers with sentimental reasons to stay. 

 

In that regard the super majority could be a hindrance to the club moving forward should an opportunity arise. 

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As mentioned above, the sale would require a very large number of individual Hearts Supporters to support the decision. Again on the numbers above, it’s very unlikely that someone would buy us all out £80m before you spend anything on moving the club forward. 

So the only possibility of this happening is if we all believe in the business plan. 

We would need to draw up a strong legal document ensuring a subsequent sale maintains the continuity of the club. 

If someone with sufficient finances to take us to the next level had a detailed business plan and was willing to sign up to this exit strategy, then the Vlad days are back - without the final outcome - and bring it on!!! 

Otherwise, not interested and accept we will not realistically be able to compete for the League regrettably and a Cup will be our ambition for the foreseeable. 

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Short answer is no. Leave the ownership in the hands of people that believe in Hearts and stuck with club in all its hardships, namely the FOH.

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Saint Jambo
2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Agree above (Iie no sale) From memory a decision to sell would require a super majority of Foh members (90% plus?). 8m quid would give each member £1000. 80m would give 10000 each. Can't see it voted through at any feasible sale price.

 

The FOH governance proposals which included the 90% vote to sell the shares, also included a stipulation that the proceeds of a sale could not be distributed to members.

 

I can only see two scenarios where a sale that would deliver no financial benefit to members would be passed by 90% of members.

1. A super rich perspective buyer emerges with strong Hearts supporting credientials and is able to convince the fans that they will put significant investment into the club without seeking anything back. This feels unlikely.

2. Under the stewardship of FOH the club gets into financial difficulties beyond what it is possible to raise from FOH members. A sale is needed to save the club. We obviously plan for this not to happen, but have to acknowledge it is within the realms of possibility.

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2 hours ago, Hungry hippo said:

No. That's why we're doing fan ownership avoid the associated risk.

There’s absolutely no guarantee that FoH/ Hearts won’t get into financial difficulty in the future. Dealing in the same market, same cost structures, same challenge of risk and reward when it comes to transfers, players wages etc. 

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43 minutes ago, McCrae said:

 

I hope you are right. I wonder though if the FOH contributions will continue at anywhere near the current rate once ownership has been completed?

 

 

I would be all for a business man/group investing but only by working alongside FoH, not above or instead of.

I was hounded on another thread the other day for expressing a little bit concern in the future of the club. Not right at this moment but in future years/decades. Those concerns are still going to be there for me, no matter what others say. Good luck McCrae, you might need it if this thread turns into a points-scoring exercise like that thread.

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Francis Albert
7 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

The FOH governance proposals which included the 90% vote to sell the shares, also included a stipulation that the proceeds of a sale could not be distributed to members.

 

I can only see two scenarios where a sale that would deliver no financial benefit to members would be passed by 90% of members.

1. A super rich perspective buyer emerges with strong Hearts supporting credientials and is able to convince the fans that they will put significant investment into the club without seeking anything back. This feels unlikely.

2. Under the stewardship of FOH the club gets into financial difficulties beyond what it is possible to raise from FOH members. A sale is needed to save the club. We obviously plan for this not to happen, but have to acknowledge it is within the realms of possibility.

OK thanks - as I said I was speaking/writing from memory and at least got the 90% right!

Academic questions I think but is it possible for the governance rules to be amended? And if the proceeds of any sale do not go to members, who do they go to?

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Tommy Brown
1 hour ago, Mr Sifter said:

Well when I win the Euromillions I’ll be buying Hearts, so you better get used to one man being in control again. 

 

On the plus side my plans include only one section for the away side, regardless of who they are, beer taps next to every seat in the Wheatfield and free pyros on entry. 

 

So...how much ye wantin for yer shares then pal...?

Corners?

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Craig Herbertson

I think a billionaire fan  would just say here's loads of cash, get some players - like the rich good guys who just have us a few million.

We didn't save. Our club to give it away.

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54 minutes ago, Ibrahim Tall said:

 

Tbh I’m not sure that’d be realistic(first sentence).

 

Theoretically if I was e.g. a billionaire and planned to invest £100-200m in Hearts I don’t think I’d particularly be happy to just ‘give’ the money over without deciding on how and when it’s spent. 

‘Small’ scale investors chucking in a few hundred grand to million is one thing and it’d be unrealistic for them to assume they’d have control but it’s a different story when you start talking 8 or 9 figures.

 

There would be nothing stopping you from offering funding for specific players or projects, likewise there would be nothing stopping FOH from accepting external funding, so long as it was in the best interests of the club and ownership remained with the fans i.e accepting stand/stadium sponsorship deals 

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The fans ARE the club.

 

Hearts are just making that official.

 

Fan ownership is the way forward for football.

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23 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

OK thanks - as I said I was speaking/writing from memory and at least got the 90% right!

Academic questions I think but is it possible for the governance rules to be amended? And if the proceeds of any sale do not go to members, who do they go to?

 

The 90% rule regarding the sale of shares acquired from Bidco is entrenched in the articles of association and cannot be changed.

 

The proceeds of any sale won't go anywhere, the intention being that we never return to a non-fan ownership model and the non distribution of profits used to prevent the 8000 FOH members selling the club for a personal profit (not that I could ever see the FOH members taking that approach) , I'd guess that if it was the case that somehow the club was in financial trouble to an extent that FOH had no option but to sell the club to an investor then the sale price would be set at Debt + administration costs of the transfer of ownership, meaning that the FOH would have a retained profit from the sale of exactly £0

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Francis Albert
13 minutes ago, Ribble said:

 

The 90% rule regarding the sale of shares acquired from Bidco is entrenched in the articles of association and cannot be changed.

 

The proceeds of any sale won't go anywhere, the intention being that we never return to a non-fan ownership model and the non distribution of profits used to prevent the 8000 FOH members selling the club for a personal profit (not that I could ever see the FOH members taking that approach) , I'd guess that if it was the case that somehow the club was in financial trouble to an extent that FOH had no option but to sell the club to an investor then the sale price would be set at Debt + administration costs of the transfer of ownership, meaning that the FOH would have a retained profit from the sale of exactly £0

Thanks. Although I think Articles of Association can be changed with the approval of (75%?) of the Shareholders. Obviously FoH will therefore be able to block any change but on the other hand could presumably with the super majority of its members approval make a change as it will own 75.1% of the shares.

But as I say hopefully pretty academic ... but on the other hand maybe it is not completely impossible for ownership to change in circumstances other than financial disaster.

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