Souttar on Neilson

[luckydug]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Can we nail this myth that Neilson left because of fans protests. Only Neilson knows why he decided to go and he's not going to reveal that publicly. Perhaps he felt there was interference from above or he had taken us as far as he could, or he was worried he wouldn't get another chance to manage in England. If he left because of a plane flying over the ground then he obviously wasn't mentally tough enough for the job anyway.

Perhaps he felt that whatever he achieved at Hearts it was never going to be good enough for the hole in the head gang of our support.

For some he committed the cardinal sin of being in charge of a Hearts side that lost a cup tie to Hibs.

Some fans are very short sighted and once an opinion is formed that is it for evermore.

Bit like yourself actually?

 

[The Merse]

Neilson has done little since leaving Hearts to suggest he’s the manager some people seem to think he is.

 

We’ve made poor appointments since but I still feel we were on the start of a downward trajectory under Robbie.

 

But aye, it’s the fans fault that we’re utter shite now.

[luckydug]

Just now, The Merse said:

Neilson has done little since leaving Hearts to suggest he’s the manager some people seem to think he is.

 

We’ve made poor appointments since but I still feel we were on the start of a downward trajectory under Robbie.

 

But aye, it’s the fans fault that we’re utter shite now.

I hope you are touching wood as you type that☺

[soonbe110]

42 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I support the club, not individual employees who come and go. Imagine the seethe if "Levein haaaayyters" took the word of a couple of random players over what Levein had said.  The seethe would be immense. Neilson left to "further his ambitions ".

It is feasible that he left to further his ambitions because he knew that the fans of his current club were giving him abuse. Who would have any ambitions to stay at a club where some fans hired an aeroplane to make a protest? 

[Beast Boy]

10 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

Get used to it, nothing is ever done about it.

 

☹️

[Rudy T]

He was just starting to fine a blend of style that allowed his defensive tactics to still play apart but also get on the front foot quicker. 

 

He lost a cup replay to Hibs and the arsehole entitled ****nuts, many of whom are slating Levein ran the guy out of town. 

 

Ann Budge should be at the game on Friday with a contract for him to return. Get CL back upstairs and continue what they started.

[Beast Boy]

4 minutes ago, The Merse said:

Neilson has done little since leaving Hearts to suggest he’s the manager some people seem to think he is.

 

We’ve made poor appointments since but I still feel we were on the start of a downward trajectory under Robbie.

 

But aye, it’s the fans fault that we’re utter shite now.

 

He was doing a decent job, but still a rookie. He had us right up there in about things in the league. A few fans decided they didn’t have the patience to let him improve upon that, so went to extraordinary lengths to chase him. 

 

It’s not “the fans” fault, it’s the fault of some fans.

[Section Q]

1 hour ago, OTT said:

Its actually a really good article considering the rag which published it.

 

I don't want to sound negative, but it frustrates me no end quote like this - “He was big on the importance of the gym and that was ideal for me.” Walker had a similar one when he was 20ish about recognising how important diet is (something about still eating sweets all the time).

 

YOU'RE A PROFESSIONAL ATHLETE GO TO THE ****ING GYM AND EAT RIGHT!!!!!!

 

I'm not directing that ire at Souttar or Walker, its the education they're receiving and its clearly not been good enough. Perhaps someone who has a keen interest in the youth teams might be able to confirm if the lads are getting a better education on what I would consider professionalism now? (since walker came through pre Levein and Soapy at Utd).

 

I remember folk making comments about the difference in size (muscle build) between our lads and Man City/ Evertons during the friendlies. Again, they might have better, more skillful players but physicality is something which is completely within our control and not something any of our lads should allow themselves to be second best in. 

The Scottish diet has a lot to answer for but I agree that young people are more aware of the benefits of a healthy diet. One of the coaches at Everton once said that changing the diet of young Scottish hopefuls is the hardest thing to do.

[greggy123]

7 minutes ago, The Merse said:

Neilson has done little since leaving Hearts to suggest he’s the manager some people seem to think he is.

 

We’ve made poor appointments since but I still feel we were on the start of a downward trajectory under Robbie.

 

But aye, it’s the fans fault that we’re utter shite now.

Couldn’t agree more. Neilson went to a club under a good owner who gives young managers a chance and ultimately is at fault for getting them relegated. Our downward spiral started with him. Just look at our away results the season he left. 

[The Merse]

1 minute ago, Icon of Symmetry said:

 

He was doing a decent job, but still a rookie. He had us right up there in about things in the league. A few fans decided they didn’t have the patience to let him improve upon that, so went to extraordinary lengths to chase him. 

 

It’s not “the fans” fault, it’s the fault of some fans.

 

Overall he did a very good job. I wasn’t sad to see him go but can’t argue that over the piece he did well.

 

The club has made too many bad calls since he left though and that’s why we’re in a bit of a state at the moment.

 

All clubs have arseholes in their support though and this site seems to apportion way too much blame to them rather than the folk making the decisions.

[Rudy T]

2 minutes ago, greggy123 said:

Couldn’t agree more. Neilson went to a club under a good owner who gives young managers a chance and ultimately is at fault for getting them relegated. Our downward spiral started with him. Just look at our away results the season he left. 

 

?? He won the championship finished 3rd and had us 2nd what a downward spiral that was??

[Captain Canada]

I genuinely believe we'd have finished higher than 6th if Neilson had stayed in charge the past two seasons. 

 

He was far from perfect but Cathro wasn't ready and Levein's experience hasn't improved us any. 

[Beast Boy]

14 minutes ago, The Merse said:

 

Overall he did a very good job. I wasn’t sad to see him go but can’t argue that over the piece he did well.

 

The club has made too many bad calls since he left though and that’s why we’re in a bit of a state at the moment.

 

All clubs have arseholes in their support though and this site seems to apportion way too much blame to them rather than the folk making the decisions.

 

How many supports do the following, during times of reasonable success -with a rookie manager- though?

 

Hire a wee plane to drag a banner ridiculing the head coach

 

Paint bedsheets calling for his head and stick them around the city centre.

 

Photoshop the owner who saved us and the DoF who was rebuilding us on to pornographic material, alongside the head coach.

 

Distribute posters calling the head coach “phoodle” - suggesting he was a puppet of Levein and had some kind of tenuous Celtic link.

 

Whinge and moan about winning games, and riding high in the league, because they do not like the style of football.

 

Its ludicrous the way he was treated, and it clearly played a part in him f-ing off in an attempt to try and repeat his achievements in the Scottish championship, down South.

 

Yes all clubs have some arseholes who attach themselves to them... we unfortunately have a growing and sizeable number of complete morons unfortunately. 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2019 by Icon of Symmetry

[greggy123]

8 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

?? He won the championship finished 3rd and had us 2nd what a downward spiral that was??

The first two seasons were great I said that. However the football started to become laborious. He was uninspiring and he’s hardly proved the people who wanted him out wrong since leaving. Out in the 2nd round of the Scottish cup again and beat by a team from Malta. Not hard to see why people weren’t happy. 

[Rudy T]

8 minutes ago, Icon of Symmetry said:

 

How many supports do the following, during times of reasonable success -with a rookie manager- though?

 

Hire a wee plane to drag a banner ridiculing the head coach

 

Paint bedsheets calling for his head and stick them around the city centre.

 

Photoshop the owner who saved us and the DoF who was rebuilding us on to pornographic material, alongside the head coach.

 

Distribute posters calling the head coach “phoodle” - suggesting he was a puppet of Levein and had some kind of tenuous Celtic link.

 

Whinge and moan about winning games, and riding high in the league, because they do not like the style of football.

 

Its ludicrous the way he was treated, and it clearly played a part in him f-ing off in an attempt to try and repeat his achievements in the Scottish championship, down South.

 

Yes all clubs have some arseholes who attach themselves to them... we unfortunately have a growing and sizeable number of complete morons unfortunately. 

 

 

 

Nailed it!

 

and I’ll also guarantee had he had any affiliation to govans finest he’d never have suffered the same fate!

[Unknown user]

Just now, Rudy T said:

 

Nailed it!

 

and I’ll also guarantee had he had any affiliation to govans finest he’d never have suffered the same fate!

 

He does, he grew up rangers and was with them before leaving for Hearts as a youngster IIRC

[Rudy T]

4 minutes ago, greggy123 said:

The first two seasons were great I said that. However the football started to become laborious. He was uninspiring and he’s hardly proved the people who wanted him out wrong since leaving. Out in the 2nd round of the Scottish cup again and beat by a team from Malta. Not hard to see why people weren’t happy. 

 

A downward spiral you said, how can you possibly say Neilson contributed to a downward spiral?? He had shite results yes but the only downward spiral was when that joker Cathro stepped in and CL needs to carry the can for that **** up

[Rudy T]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

He does, he grew up rangers and was with them before leaving for Hearts as a youngster IIRC

 

Well he clearly did make that clear enough to the ******s! The whole phoddle chat was embarrassing to say the least suggesting they thought he had Celtic connections 

[Jodami]

2 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

Well he clearly did make that clear enough to the ******s! The whole phoddle chat was embarrassing to say the least suggesting they thought he had Celtic connections 

I don’t even think they actually thought he had Celtic connections, they just thought that slipping in an h to a word is what you do when you are being critical. Who knows what websites they must have spent endless hours on to form that particular opinion. 

[Beast Boy]

4 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

Well he clearly did make that clear enough to the ******s! The whole phoddle chat was embarrassing to say the least suggesting they thought he had Celtic connections 

 

I think he just expected that Hearts fans weren’t generally as thick as some of them proved to be. I knew he was a Rangers supporter growing up. Can’t remember where I picked that info up from, but I assumed it was common knowledge.

 

The folk who campaigned for his removal were (and I assume still are) mouth-breathing bellends.

[Beast Boy]

2 minutes ago, Jodami said:

I don’t even think they actually thought he had Celtic connections, they just thought that slipping in an h to a word is what you do when you are being critical. Who knows what websites they must have spent endless hours on to form that particular opinion. 

 

Deano the genius. 

[Jodami]

Neilson obviously moved on too quickly but I think there is more to the story than just issues with a group of idiots in the fan base. Several posters have commented on Levein being dead set against the Sammon signing and the writing was already on the wall on that score when he left. How was the relationship with them at that time? How much did the club really  want to keep him? Was Cathro an idea that had been floated behind the scenes already? 

Taking an extremely curious job at an odd time of the season looks even stranger now than it did then. 

Ultimately I think he was a victim of losing the cup tie against Hibs and Sow going at that time did him no favours although the club had to take the money. 

[Rudy T]

9 minutes ago, Jodami said:

Neilson obviously moved on too quickly but I think there is more to the story than just issues with a group of idiots in the fan base. Several posters have commented on Levein being dead set against the Sammon signing and the writing was already on the wall on that score when he left. How was the relationship with them at that time? How much did the club really  want to keep him? Was Cathro an idea that had been floated behind the scenes already? 

Taking an extremely curious job at an odd time of the season looks even stranger now than it did then. 

Ultimately I think he was a victim of losing the cup tie against Hibs and Sow going at that time did him no favours although the club had to take the money. 

 

I heard a story that Cathro was CLs first pick but didn’t want it so Robbie got the gig, when MK came calling AB told them to forget it, CL convinced her Cathro would be better, Neilson left, the fans and money played a part in that! When Cathro failed AB went nuts and told CL to take the job and fix the mess. A lot of 2+2=5 in that perhaps but the same guy told me Washington was in talks a long time before it came to light so like a lot of these stories there will be some truth in it.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Rudy T

[Jodami]

1 minute ago, Rudy T said:

 

I heard a story that Cathro was CLs first pick but didn’t want it so Robbie got the gig, when MK came calling AB told them to forget it, CL convinced her Cathro would be better, Neilson left, the fans and money played a part in that! When Cathro failed AB went nuts and told CL to take the job and fix the mess. A lot of 2+2=5 in that perhaps but the same guy told me Washington was in talks a long time before it came to light so like a lot of these stories there will be some truth in it.

Interesting chat Rudy, not inconceivable certainly. Good point on the money as well, doubt he was on a great deal with us so it would have been a significant increase in salary. 

[Jammy T]

The same people that call Neilson a pussy for not being able to take a bit of abuse are the same people who wanted shot of a manager because of two, YES TWO, games that he lost after 2 and a half years of improving league position year on year....

 

Who are the pussies?

Edited July 7, 2019 by Jammy T

[Beast Boy]

14 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

I heard a story that Cathro was CLs first pick but didn’t want it so Robbie got the gig, when MK came calling AB told them to forget it, CL convinced her Cathro would be better, Neilson left, the fans and money played a part in that! When Cathro failed AB went nuts and told CL to take the job and fix the mess. A lot of 2+2=5 in that perhaps but the same guy told me Washington was in talks a long time before it came to light so like a lot of these stories there will be some truth in it.

 

I read that and and all I can think of, is the people who started that rumour were the same folk that wanted Neilson out, and that was a good way of passing the buck. Could be wrong though, obviously.

[Prof]

As usual a good number of comments seem to come from posters who haven’t watched Hearts. Under RN we won the Championship with record points, record goal scoring and with great attacking style. The championship contained Hibs and Rankers who were both desperate to get promoted. They didn’t succeed and  we did In the SPFL, Robbie has us in the top 3 consistently. The only mistake he made was in listening to CL that the Championship team wasn’t good enough for the SPFL. RN was able to take a group of decent players and make them into a good team. If you disagree with that you are either a bitter Hobo or didn’t go to games.

[Mr Elwood P]

5 minutes ago, Prof said:

As usual a good number of comments seem to come from posters who haven’t watched Hearts. Under RN we won the Championship with record points, record goal scoring and with great attacking style. The championship contained Hibs and Rankers who were both desperate to get promoted. They didn’t succeed and  we did In the SPFL, Robbie has us in the top 3 consistently. The only mistake he made was in listening to CL that the Championship team wasn’t good enough for the SPFL. RN was able to take a group of decent players and make them into a good team. If you disagree with that you are either a bitter Hobo or didn’t go to games.

 

Which players did we release, that have subsequently gone on to be outstanding Scottish Premiership players?

[Turkishcap]

FWIW I don't expect us to lose on Friday.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

2 hours ago, Central Belt 1874 said:

 

It was a stupid gamble, and one that the club did not need to make. Neilson, along with Levein, at that point had built a solid foundation on which to build upon. 

 

Instead we went down the cheap option, both in the dugout and on the pitch, and we have two 6th place finishes and 6 months of dreadful performances to show for it.

 

 

 

Neilson was also a gamble and cheap option - some you win, etc.

 

With different timing and and fewer impatient, entitled eejits amongst our support who knows what could have happened. Neilson could have got another third and left in the close season. Cathro could have had a close season to bed in or might have moved to rangers and messed them up for a season instead! Who knows, but hopefully some Hearts fans might now think twice before turning on a manager too soon.

 

Edited July 7, 2019 by ToqueJambo

[Zico]

1 hour ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

Always the same posters dragging it away from the subject.

 

Get used to it, nothing is ever done about it.

Said it multiple times but I’d start subscribing again if they did - or if the ignore function didn’t show quoted ignored posters. Can’t say I’m surprised to see the usual idiots popping up here, including one “PHM” that has been to Tynecastle less in the last decade than most H1B5 fans. 

[Rudy T]

15 minutes ago, Icon of Symmetry said:

 

I read that and and all I can think of, is the people who started that rumour were the same folk that wanted Neilson out, and that was a good way of passing the buck. Could be wrong though, obviously.

 

Perhaps. The facts are CL wanted Cathro and Ann Budge wasn’t impressed...want went on in between is up for debate.

[Beast Boy]

3 minutes ago, Zico said:

Said it multiple times but I’d start subscribing again if they did

 

I know a few that say the same thing.

[Mr Elwood P]

4 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

Perhaps. The facts are CL wanted Cathro and Ann Budge wasn’t impressed...want went on in between is up for debate.

 

 

The most commonly misused word in JKB history.

[Gavman81]

2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

It's still pre season.

 

No way is it embarrassing to lose what is effectively still a pre season game. 

How about if we don’t qualify from the group, is that acceptable as just pre season still?

Not having a go but this appears to be your rationale - I’d say Friday is a must win and in semi convincing style as Levin needs to hit ground running this season. 

[Mr Elwood P]

3 minutes ago, Gavman81 said:

How about if we don’t qualify from the group, is that acceptable as just pre season still?

Not having a go but this appears to be your rationale - I’d say Friday is a must win and in semi convincing style as Levin needs to hit ground running this season. 

 

Not sure the League Cup Group Stages constitute 'pre season' ?

[Gavman81]

3 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Not sure the League Cup Group Stages constitute 'pre season' ?

That’s my point to Mickey’s post mate. 

[Mr Elwood P]

1 minute ago, Gavman81 said:

That’s my point to Mickey’s post mate. 

 

A win would be ideal on Friday as it would set us up to win the group. Even a 'win' on pens would be decent if we win the other games. The only aim in cup football is to progress to the next stage. I think we will achieve that!

[Bridge of Djoum]

40 minutes ago, Zico said:

Said it multiple times but I’d start subscribing again if they did - or if the ignore function didn’t show quoted ignored posters. Can’t say I’m surprised to see the usual idiots popping up here, including one “PHM” that has been to Tynecastle less in the last decade than most H1B5 fans. 

Yip. I quit subscribing also. Tired of being warned when interacting with the faces constantly getting away with it. Paid members being warned for arguing with non paying trolls. ''Go figure''.

[OTT]

2 hours ago, Section Q said:

The Scottish diet has a lot to answer for but I agree that young people are more aware of the benefits of a healthy diet. One of the coaches at Everton once said that changing the diet of young Scottish hopefuls is the hardest thing to do.

 

 

That actually sounds familiar, its also utterly shocking. I seem to recall seeing Cochrane etc. doing some cookery course, so hopefully it is something Levein is very aware of and consciously trying to change.

[davemclaren]

38 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

A win would be ideal on Friday as it would set us up to win the group. Even a 'win' on pens would be decent if we win the other games. The only aim in cup football is to progress to the next stage. I think we will achieve that!

We need to finish top to get a better draw next round I think. 

[Mr Elwood P]

24 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

We need to finish top to get a better draw next round I think. 

 

We need to finish top to make JKB bearable again ...

[davemclaren]

Just now, Mr Elwood P said:

 

We need to finish top to make JKB bearable again ...

That as well. ?

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

3 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I appreciate that but again, why take the opinion of them ahead of the comments of the man himself?? 

Because press statements are more than a tad PC. 

[airthjambo]

3 hours ago, greggy123 said:

My biggest criticism was games away from home. We always started slow and Didn’t look up for a battle. It usually took us going a goal down for it to look like anyone cared. Obviously there were great things about Neilson and the plane over Tynecastle was idiotic behaviour. But for me he had taken us as far as he could. 

2nd in league when he left have certainly made progress since then!!! Lots of so called fans wanted him gone after cup capitulation to Hibs for which I still say Neil Alexander was the man at fault

[Prof]

2 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Which players did we release, that have subsequently gone on to be outstanding Scottish Premiership players?

An irrelevant comment. The whole point of good management is to build a team from average players. 

[rick witter]

5 hours ago, Inch Hearts said:

 

Losing to a lower league time is embarrassing.  Not that hearts will lose on Friday.  

0-0 borefest with 2 managers who don’t want to lose but won’t go all out for the win. 

[Beast Boy]

2 hours ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

Yip. I quit subscribing also. Tired of being warned when interacting with the faces constantly getting away with it. Paid members being warned for arguing with non paying trolls. ''Go figure''.

 

9 minutes ago, rick witter said:

0-0 borefest with 2 managers who don’t want to lose but won’t go all out for the win. 

 

?

[OTT]

In hindsight I think Levein should have taken the role after neilson left with Cathro being brought in as #2 with the intention of taking over after a bedding in period. 

 

Not sure that would have changed the end result but might have given him time to work with the squad and kinda develop his man management skills a bit better. I think letting him come in (especially without an established #2 of his own) was destined for disaster.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

4 hours ago, Jodami said:

Neilson obviously moved on too quickly but I think there is more to the story than just issues with a group of idiots in the fan base. Several posters have commented on Levein being dead set against the Sammon signing and the writing was already on the wall on that score when he left. How was the relationship with them at that time? How much did the club really  want to keep him? Was Cathro an idea that had been floated behind the scenes already? 

Taking an extremely curious job at an odd time of the season looks even stranger now than it did then. 

Ultimately I think he was a victim of losing the cup tie against Hibs and Sow going at that time did him no favours although the club had to take the money. 

 

Levein always wanted Cathro as next in line. That's why he offered him the U20s job before Ross. I think he saw him as an unfinished project. He was available and Neilson had an offer. I thought we were far too relaxed about losing Neilson at the time. We should have backed Neilson with the funds we needed to properly replace Sow as the reason Neilson played cautiously was we never properly replaced Sow until big Bjorn got up and running.

 

Levein handled the whole Neilson leaving and Cathro starting really, really badly, IMO and credit to Budge for making him clean up his own mess.

 

The big thing about Neilson for me wasn't just how consistent he was at picking up points and putting out teams that did usually create a lot of chances, was how he got the best out of players like Paterson, Walker and Djoum. Even the youngsters in the championship season like King and Nicolson will probably look back on their Hearts days under Neilson as their best ever form.

 

I'd take Neilson back in a shot. I think he's only going to improve as a manager.

 

Edited July 7, 2019 by ToqueJambo