Aberdeen knock back £5m from Celtic for McKenna

[Inch Hearts]

11 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Goodness!

 

Far too blinkered for reasoned debate.  Mulgrew and Christophe should be at the heart of Scotland’s defence. 

[KennyMcP]

Aberdeen are counting on a significant over-valuation of McKenna to help finance their new ground, and are using the press to assist.  (We’d get no such assistance if we were to do the same with Soapy or any player).

 

Watch them accept much less when the stadium bills start coming in.

I’ve yet to see what McKenna offers that would put him in the bracket of best in the country.

Neither do Dons fans that I speak to.

[Mr Elwood P]

51 minutes ago, SpruceBringsteen said:

 

Clarke's had two games in which McKenna (and Mulgrew) stunk the place out. If he keeps picking them I'll be questioning his cleaning fluid habit too. Souttar is better than both of them. It's not debatable.

 

If it’s not debatable then why:

 

(a) Has Souttar not been playing for Scotland?

 

(b) Have we not had any bids for him?

 

Everything is debatable, hence the existence of this forum. Look at all the honours Charlie Mulgrew has racked up over his career. To suggest that Souttar is clearly the better player, when he’s done nothing yet, is not convincing in the slightest.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

16 minutes ago, Inch Hearts said:

 

Far too blinkered for reasoned debate.  Mulgrew and Christophe should be at the heart of Scotland’s defence. 

 

Now I know you're on the wind-up!

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

5 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

If it’s not debatable then why:

 

(a) Has Souttar not been playing for Scotland?

 

(b) Have we not had any bids for him?

 

Everything is debatable, hence the existence of this forum. Look at all the honours Charlie Mulgrew has racked up over his career. To suggest that Souttar is clearly the better player, when he’s done nothing yet, is not convincing in the slightest.

I gave you the first answer.  Second is experience,  Clarke wanted to get off to a good start and went with the left footed player for balance and the experience for balance. 

Souttars time will come. 

McKenna must be concerned about being ragdolled every day in training by Curtis Main. Not something that could be said of our central partnership 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

20 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

If it’s not debatable then why:

 

(a) Has Souttar not been playing for Scotland?

 

(b) Have we not had any bids for him?

 

Everything is debatable, hence the existence of this forum. Look at all the honours Charlie Mulgrew has racked up over his career. To suggest that Souttar is clearly the better player, when he’s done nothing yet, is not convincing in the slightest.

 

Mulgrew and McKenna are both lefties. Seems weird to choose them as the centre back pairing and the way we have defended when they've played together makes it mystifying to me that they are the first pick CB partnership.

 

If McLeish had stayed we could even have seen an entire back four of left footed players as he tried to lever in all his favourites.

 

Souttar is the best central defensive prospect we have as he proved when partnered by Berra pre-injury last season and most of the previous season. He can turn defence into attack which is valuable at international level. McKenna's purely a stopper. As a few have said - a less skilful Berra.

Edited June 23, 2019 by ToqueJambo

[Beast Boy]

What I have noticed with this topic and a few others, is that some people rate a player based on watching them, and assessing their ability against what they see with their own eyes. Then there are those who make their judgement based upon things like the fee another club is willing to make as an offer, or or the interest shown in them from elsewhere.

[Inch Hearts]

6 minutes ago, Icon of Symmetry said:

What I have noticed with this topic and a few others, is that some people rate a player based on watching them, and assessing their ability against what they see with their own eyes. Then there are those who make their judgement based upon things like the fee another club is willing to make as an offer, or or the interest shown in them from elsewhere.

 

Why do you think there’s a fee and interest from elsewhere?  Maybe watching them? 

[Beast Boy]

7 minutes ago, Inch Hearts said:

 

Why do you think there’s a fee and interest from elsewhere?  Maybe watching them? 

 

Absolutely. However, I was talking about JKB posters, not managers, scouts or coaches.

[Mr Elwood P]

34 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

I gave you the first answer.  Second is experience,  Clarke wanted to get off to a good start and went with the left footed player for balance and the experience for balance. 

Souttars time will come. 

McKenna must be concerned about being ragdolled every day in training by Curtis Main. Not something that could be said of our central partnership 

 

 

Except Charlie Mulgrew is left footed so your explanation doesn’t make any sense at all, does it?

[Mr Elwood P]

18 minutes ago, Icon of Symmetry said:

What I have noticed with this topic and a few others, is that some people rate a player based on watching them, and assessing their ability against what they see with their own eyes. Then there are those who make their judgement based upon things like the fee another club is willing to make as an offer, or or the interest shown in them from elsewhere.

 

That’s because me stating my opinion on a player is entirely subjective, it has no weight and won’t convince anyone of anything. Factors such as goals scored, fees, appearances, international caps, can be looked at objectively. This allows us to ascertain which argument is more convincing. 

[Bongo 1874]

Celtic think mckenna is the awnser for them to challenge in Europe and get into the group stages ???? wow times must be really hard either that or Peter Lawwell Ian Bankier and Dermot Desmond are shafting them for millions tick tock lenny ? on that i will leave u all with this so delightful and mckenna effort to get the ball away ?????? Uche just nipping in there I'll take that yah big clumsy f**

 

Edited June 23, 2019 by Bongo 1874

[Beast Boy]

3 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

That’s because me stating my opinion on a player is entirely subjective, it has no weight and won’t convince anyone of anything. Factors such as goals scored, fees, appearances, international caps, can be looked at objectively. This allows us to ascertain which argument is more convincing. 

 

Well yes, quite. That’s just expanding on what I said. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

12 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

 

Except Charlie Mulgrew is left footed so your explanation doesn’t make any sense at all, does it?

It does. Mulgrews foot doesn't detract from his experience. 

You don't rate Souttar. Strange or just Mr Awkward again?

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

6 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Celtic think mckenna is the awnser for them to challenge in Europe and get into the group stages ???? wow times must be really hard either that or Peter Lawwell Ian Bankier and Dermot Desmond are shafting them for millions tick tock lenny ? on that i will leave u all with this so delightful and mckenna effort to get the ball away ?????? Uche just nipping in there I'll take that yah big clumsy fud. 

 

Celtic signed Jack Hendry straight in, Souttar to the back of the queue. 

Hendry must be a better player eh

 

[Scallywag]

Aberdeen are quite right to knock back 5m. Whatever you think of the players theres silly money washing about in england, why woud you sell to a rival at price lower than you have already had offers. He's a good players and young with lots of development potential someone will come in with a better bid.

[Mr Elwood P]

Just now, Sir Gio said:

It does. Mulgrews foot doesn't detract from his experience. 

You don't rate Souttar. Strange or just Mr Awkward again?

 

Mulgrew is there for experience. The other option is a right footed Souttar or left footed McKenna. Surely Souttar would make the team more balanced? 

 

I rate both players highly and believe they will both move to England for significant fees. All I said was that ‘I’m not convinced that Souttar is better’, which has led to a bit of a backlash.

[Mr Elwood P]

11 minutes ago, Icon of Symmetry said:

 

Well yes, quite. That’s just expanding on what I said. 

 

I thought you were advocating the subjective point of view?

[Bongo 1874]

14 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Celtic think mckenna is the awnser for them to challenge in Europe and get into the group stages ???? wow times must be really hard either that or Peter Lawwell Ian Bankier and Dermot Desmond are shafting them for millions tick tock lenny ? on that i will leave u all with this so delightful and mckenna effort to get the ball away ?????? Uche just nipping in there I'll take that yah big clumsy f**

 

Answer*

[Beast Boy]

Just now, Mr Elwood P said:

 

I thought you were advocating the subjective point of view?

 

 Not really, it was just an observation. I do it myself at times. A good example is if I like a player and see something that I think is positive in him, despite him being panned by others. If that player keeps getting picked, then I find myself thinking my opinion is probably justified, since an experienced manager like Levein sees something there. On other occasions such as bringing back Walker, I don’t get it, because I saw him shitting it in derbies for a couple of seasons, and it drove me mental.

 

I think the method of judgement based on caps, fees, interest and valuations, has merit, but it can be flawed. It doesn’t take in to account things like Alex McLeish.

[Mr Elwood P]

1 minute ago, Icon of Symmetry said:

 

 Not really, it was just an observation. I do it myself at times. A good example is if I like a player and see something that I think is positive in him, despite him being panned by others. If that player keeps getting picked, then I find myself thinking my opinion is probably justified, since an experienced manager like Levein sees something there. On other occasions such as bringing back Walker, I don’t get it, because I saw him shitting it in derbies for a couple of seasons, and it drove me mental.

 

I think the method of judgement based on caps, fees, interest and valuations, has merit, but it can be flawed. It doesn’t take in to account things like Alex McLeish.

 

I wouldn't have made the point if it was just McLeish, the fact that Clark and Strachan seemed to prefer McKenna was important. Regarding Walker I would look at his 37 league goals in 155 appearances and suggest that is something we need in the team ASAP.

[Beast Boy]

12 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

I wouldn't have made the point if it was just McLeish, the fact that Clark and Strachan seemed to prefer McKenna was important. Regarding Walker I would look at his 37 league goals in 155 appearances and suggest that is something we need in the team ASAP.

 

I think you are maybe taking it a bit too personally tbh. It wasn't aimed specifically at you, and it wasn’t really a dig either. It’s just something that jumped out at me whilst reading the thread.

 

My point, was that some posters on here rate players based on their opinions on their performances, whilst others go by evidence of how they are viewed by folk in the game. I think there is a place for both views, but often in such a debate, never the twain shall meet.

 

Edited June 23, 2019 by Icon of Symmetry

[Inch Hearts]

47 minutes ago, Icon of Symmetry said:

 

Absolutely. However, I was talking about JKB posters, not managers, scouts or coaches.

No bother bud. 

[Bridge of Djoum]

This thread really is a good debate. Changed my opinion 2 or 3 times reading this. 

 

I initially thought Aberdeen should snap their hand off for 5m, then the great point was brought up about Scottish players going for peanuts, not that 5m is. Then someone said he’s bang average, countered with if he’s average then why would the Dons knock back the bid. 

 

JKB at its best. Fantastic. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I still think he’s murder. 

[CJGJ]

All this and there is no bid..madness

[SpruceBringsteen]

Elwood destroyed me tbf. I need to get my radar sorted. Souttar is pish. ?

[Jammy T]

As far as I see it, although I think McKenna is worth **** all. What he is sold for is the benchmark for Souttar - Souttar being worth at least 20% more than McKenna

[North Berwick Jambo]

I think it’s a clever move by Aberdeen, sends a message. 

[vegas-voss]

It's a big **** you to Celtic I think.An English side coming in with £5m plus add ons and he would be away.Also £5m from Celtic might be coming conditions.

Edited June 24, 2019 by vegas-voss

[Hearts1975]

I would take a million for McKenna 

 

rejecting 5 million is laughable 

[NaturalOrder74]

Aberdeen have said there was no bid at all ? 

[Mr Elwood P]

35 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

I would take a million for McKenna 

 

rejecting 5 million is laughable 

 

You'd take £1m, for a player who has already attracted bids of £5-7m and you think Aberdeen's strategy is laughable?

[Mr Elwood P]

4 minutes ago, NaturalOrder74 said:

Aberdeen have said there was no bid at all ? 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45805859

 

Previous bids confirmed by McKenna. Wouldn't be surprised if Aberdeen are in the press shouting about no Celtic bid to alert the English clubs that they are open for business.

[Hearts1975]

10 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

You'd take £1m, for a player who has already attracted bids of £5-7m and you think Aberdeen's strategy is laughable?

Yes I would. The player is utter dross. 

 

More fool Aberdeen. If they have seriously been offered 5 million plus for that player and on more than one occasion, and have rejected both bids, then yes, their strategy is laughable. 

 

They should have took either of the bids now and thank their lucky stars they won the lottery.

 

Holding out for more money may mean that eventually if they do decide to sell him and there are no takers they are offered much less 

 

if McKenna is worth 7 million then Soapy must be worth around 14 million. 

[Nookie Bear]

3 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

Yes I would. The player is utter dross. 

 

More fool Aberdeen. If they have seriously been offered 5 million plus for that player and on more than one occasion, and have rejected both bids, then yes, their strategy is laughable. 

 

They should have took either of the bids now and thank their lucky stars they won the lottery.

 

Holding out for more money may mean that eventually if they do decide to sell him and there are no takers they are offered much less 

 

if McKenna is worth 7 million then Soapy must be worth around 14 million. 

 

He will be when someone offers £14m for him.

[busby1985]

If Aberdeen get £10million for McKenna then Souttar will pay off the main stand, pay back Budge and the millions left over will go straight into the bank. Laughable that Aberdeen have rejected £5million, laughable that Celtic will have spent £8million on 2 bang average players from the SPFL. Fair play however to Celtic for not taking the Rangers approach of low ball bids and trying to unsettle players. 

[Mr Elwood P]

5 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

Yes I would. The player is utter dross. 

 

More fool Aberdeen. If they have seriously been offered 5 million plus for that player and on more than one occasion, and have rejected both bids, then yes, their strategy is laughable. 

 

They should have took either of the bids now and thank their lucky stars they won the lottery.

 

Holding out for more money may mean that eventually if they do decide to sell him and there are no takers they are offered much less 

 

if McKenna is worth 7 million then Soapy must be worth around 14 million. 

 

Think you need to get someone else to manage your finances for you! Taking the first bid that comes along is an illogical strategy. Saying you'd accept £5.5m less than the current top bid is just idiotic. It is time for Scottish clubs to start being more bullish in the transfer market and demanding top fees for our top players. Aberdeen have my full support on this matter. 

[Mr Elwood P]

2 minutes ago, busby1985 said:

If Aberdeen get £10million for McKenna then Souttar will pay off the main stand, pay back Budge and the millions left over will go straight into the bank. Laughable that Aberdeen have rejected £5million, laughable that Celtic will have spent £8million on 2 bang average players from the SPFL. Fair play however to Celtic for not taking the Rangers approach of low ball bids and trying to unsettle players. 

 

They rejected £6.5m last summer, laughable that Celtic think he will go for less. If they have actually bid at all. If Mckenna goes South for £10m it sets down a marker for the rest of Scottish football. Only a good thing for the league as a whole.

[busby1985]

28 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

They rejected £6.5m last summer, laughable that Celtic think he will go for less. If they have actually bid at all. If Mckenna goes South for £10m it sets down a marker for the rest of Scottish football. Only a good thing for the league as a whole.

Agree. 

[cosanostra]

The lad is a carthorse.

Slow, cumbersome, horrible distribution and prone to blunders. 

I hate seeing him play for the national team as he's a liability.

Turning down 5m for him is quite staggering.

[jack D and coke]

Wonder if this is legit...

 

[TheBigO]

21 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Wonder if this is legit...

 

Doubt assists form part of a deal. Maybe but seems weird to me. Define assist!

 

Gotta be fake. If they get offered this, they should take it though

[Mr Elwood P]

1 minute ago, TheBigO said:

Doubt assists form part of a deal. Maybe but seems weird to me. Define assist!

 

Gotta be fake. If they get offered this, they should take it though

 

What do you mean? 

[Unknown user]

22 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Wonder if this is legit...

 

 

I don't know but it's not a photo or a scan, that's a hyperlink at the bottom so it's never seen a piece of paper.

[TheBigO]

2 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

What do you mean? 

In "legal" terms, what's an assist? Last person to touch the ball before the scorer?

[Mr Elwood P]

Just now, TheBigO said:

In "legal" terms, what's an assist? Last person to touch the ball before the scorer?

 

Last person to touch the ball and think if you win a penalty or a free kick that is converted into a goal that also counts? 

[mikescotland]

I don't know which bit to believe the least - that they offered £5M in the first place or that the sheep could afford to turn £5M down.

[vegas-voss]

2 hours ago, busby1985 said:

If Aberdeen get £10million for McKenna then Souttar will pay off the main stand, pay back Budge and the millions left over will go straight into the bank. Laughable that Aberdeen have rejected £5million, laughable that Celtic will have spent £8million on 2 bang average players from the SPFL. Fair play however to Celtic for not taking the Rangers approach of low ball bids and trying to unsettle players. 

The boy from Motherwell looks pretty good for the money to be honest 15 goals in 30 games for a 19 year midfielder.I wouldn't mind some of that average

[tian447]

2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Wonder if this is legit...

 

 

I'd be disappointed in the lack of professionalism if this is legit.  It looks suspiciously like it's been typed up on Microsoft Word and saved as a PDF.   The default bullet style points give it away, and is full of niggly little errors:

 

1) The Arsenal logo does not match the margin spacing of the text on the right hand side, ruining the symmetry of a supposed professional document.

 

2) They define Celtic Football Club as Celtic F.C. in the opening paragraph, and then immediately use Celtic Football Club, even though they then refer to Arsenal F.C and Celtic F.C in the rest of the document.

 

3) £7.5M is not expanded to (7.5 Million Pounds) in brackets, even though all other instances of sums of money are.

4) "Head of football operations at Arsenal Football club" is all over the place, and I've never seen anyone in a company or business use the word at in their job title, especially in an email.  "Head of Football Operations, Arsenal Football Club" would be much more likely.

 

Chances are, this was typed up on a laptop on a 6 year finance deal from Brighthouse, by some Celtic supporting jakeball that thinks this is how it would actually be done.

Edited June 24, 2019 by tian447

[The Mercer Takeover]

I am surprised to see Aberdeen reject this fee but it is good to see them do so. They clearly feel there is significantly more to be had.

 

In terms of the comparison to Souttar, I personally think McKenna is further forward in his development and probably worth significantly more at this time.

 

Whilst Souttar is clearly better with the ball at his feet and general distribution, he does have the tendency to switch off for periods and can be a bit lightweight. Souttar has looked really poor in a Scotland shirt and these tend to be the games that get noticed. Against some of the bigger and more physical Centre Forwards down south, I suspect he would currently be a liability. Another year of development perhaps and he could be worth a fortune.

 

Bottom line is, no-one had made a serious offer for Souttar and footballers are only worth what someone else is prepared to pay for them.