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Parking at work levy

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fabienleclerq
5 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Greens backed this play.

So you're left with: 

The Scottish branch office of the tolies, labour, lib dem, UKIP, Brexit Party or an independent.

Good luck with that...

Ken, which is why I've been voting snp! 

 

I don't think they're doing a great job but there's not many alternatives! They'll lose my vote if this goes through as it will cost my house potentially £800 because they had to make some shabby deal with the greens. 

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Ribble
5 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said:

Two other thoughts;

 

Working class tax - this is the weakest argument of them all. Unless by working class people mean anyone that works, which is just tax, then this isn't a working class tax, it applies to everyone. Arguably, it would apply less to the traditional working class who are less likely to work in cushy offices with car parking. 

 

Environment and taxes on general - This should be good for the environment if it reduces traffic as in Nottingham. Does anyone think that's a bad thing? It's also another step towards Scotland doing its part and meeting its early carbon neutral target. All steps, however small, help.

 

Then there is the issue of taxes in general. Since Thatcher, people on this island have been so self-centred and entitled. Folk are simultaneously moaning about councils being given more revenue generating powers, blaming the reason on the SNP government for under funding them and greeting because the Scottish Government has slightly higher tax for some people compared to England.

 

What do folk honestly want? Amazing services, great councils, pay little tax. It doesn't work like that. We have a deficit in this country (as do most) so it's about time we had a grown up conversation about tax because it is not a complicated conversation really;

 

1. You want low taxes, then expect many services to be cut or reduced. Bye free prescriptions, free tuition, stop subsiding the bedroom tax, free personal care, free eye tests.

 

2. You're willing to pay proportionate taxes for the things you receive.

 

At the end of the day, something has to give, because we don't generate enough revenue to pay for things as it is. But I wish folk would stop the self entitled we want everything but don't want to pay for it attitude. 

 

Free prescriptions is one of the best marketing ploys by politicians going, cost next to nothing (in relative terms) to implement as only 5% of prescriptions were ever paid for anyway, good part of what it costs to provide that 5% for free is recovered by not paying for a fraud team to try and track down folk that weren't really on the dole and then not even fine them but just make them pay the £5.75 or whatever it was!

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BRUCEM63

Lip,service policy for their Green Party pals

 

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Trapper John McIntyre
1 hour ago, BRUCEM63 said:

Lip,service policy for their Green Party pals

 

13,000 voters directing the policy of the Scottish government.

 

First past the post might not be such a bad system after all.

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EC_Hearts

A lot of support for this plan appears to be based on the premise that all parking spaces are attached to plush city centre offices occupied by staff earning vast fortunes.

Whilst I appreciate this will be true in some cases, there are also numerous companies located in different parts of the city with staff car parking and not the best direct transport links (Crewe Toll for example coming in from the west). Had the original tram scheme came to fruition I would have been delighted to leave my car at the Ingliston and use the tram to get to Crewe Toll but I'm afraid the equivalent bus journey(s) does not hold the same appeal.

Will be interesting to see how Edinburgh Council apply it to companies but I think the SNP government will ultimately be held responsible for it by the electorate along with the high tax rates.

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frankblack
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, EC_Hearts said:

A lot of support for this plan appears to be based on the premise that all parking spaces are attached to plush city centre offices occupied by staff earning vast fortunes.

Whilst I appreciate this will be true in some cases, there are also numerous companies located in different parts of the city with staff car parking and not the best direct transport links (Crewe Toll for example coming in from the west). Had the original tram scheme came to fruition I would have been delighted to leave my car at the Ingliston and use the tram to get to Crewe Toll but I'm afraid the equivalent bus journey(s) does not hold the same appeal.

Will be interesting to see how Edinburgh Council apply it to companies but I think the SNP government will ultimately be held responsible for it by the electorate along with the high tax rates.

 

Exactly my point.  I now work in the Haymarket area so do take public transport with no parking spaces for the ordinary worker.

 

Up until the end of last year I worked at the shore in Leith and public transport is shit from the other side of Edinburgh, so took the car and got there in less than half the time because I could pick a more direct route.

 

A lot of companies have workers who commute in from Fife, West Lothian, and sometimes as far as Glasgow.

 

Park and ride is no good when the transport options from the park and ride car park take you nowhere near where you need to work, and rail is fine if you work in the city centre or the Gyle - anywhere else and you are ****ed.

 

Companies may consider whether to relocate outside Edinburgh if this gets taken up here.

Edited by frankblack

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Trapper John McIntyre
15 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Exactly my point.  I now work in the Haymarket area so do take public transport with no parking spaces for the ordinary worker.

 

Up until the end of last year I worked at the shore in Leith and public transport is shit from the other side of Edinburgh, so took the car and got there in less than half the time because I could pick a more direct route.

 

A lot of companies have workers who commute in from Fife, West Lothian, and sometimes as far as Glasgow.

 

Park and ride is no good when the transport options from the park and ride car park take you nowhere near where you need to work, and rail is fine if you work in the city centre or the Gyle - anywhere else and you are ****ed.

 

Companies may consider whether to relocate outside Edinburgh if this gets taken up here.

 Nothing will be done until the Scottish electorate wakens up and votes the horrendous  SNP out of office.

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Pans Jambo
5 minutes ago, Trapper John McIntyre said:

 Nothing will be done until the Scottish electorate wakens up and votes the horrendous  SNP out of office.

OK but votes them out for who?

Tolies?

 

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H2

If you are self-employed, or work from home and have a parking space on your property, well I guess could be "elite" and having to pay for having a parking space at work at home too. 

 

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TheOak88
14 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said:

This thread shows exactly why Trumps and Johnsons get power. Too many folk running around in a rage rather than looking at the facts. 

 

1. Why shouldn't councils have more power? 

2. It's the business who'll be liable for the tax, so if the worker pays, that'll be a business decision. 

3. In Nottingham, it only applies to businesses with more than 10 parking spaces. This won't affect small business.

4. In Nottingham, some businesses have passed it on to workers, while others haven't. 

5. In Nottingham, the money raised is required by law to go back into transport. 

6. Emergency services, NHS and disabled spaces don't count. 

7. It's been shown to have improved traffic congestion. Nottingham are the only area in England to have seen a reduction in travel times during rush hour. 

8. It's an environmentally friendly initiative. 

9. It's entirely possible for the businesses to set it up in a way that they only pass on the charge to people living within a certain number of miles. There's scope for flexibility by councils and businesses. 

 

On the other hand;

 

1. SNP Argh Argh bad Argh.

 

I'm being facetious. There are obviously downsides to the initiative. But overall I think it's a good move. 

 

 

 

Why shouldn’t councils have more power? From where I work I see our £1bn tram line everyday. I have never once looked at it and thought “I really wish those guys at the council had more power over how my tax money is spent”. In fact I have thought quite the opposite. 

 

Do you really think with Edinburgh Councils track record of decision making over the past 10-15 years they have earned a right to make more meaningful decisions?. 

 

“It’s the business who will be liable for the tax” - yes that’s correct, but we all know that higher tax take from businesses will either directly or indirectly effect both the employees and the customers of that business. Even if the business does not directly charge its employees, it will inevitably result in less money to be handed out at annual pay reviews and less scope to higher more staff.  

 

I agree it would probably have a mildly positive effect on traffic congestion across the city though. 

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Trapper John McIntyre
1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

OK but votes them out for who?

Tolies?

 

 

Got doubts?

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Trapper John McIntyre

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superjack
1 hour ago, Trapper John McIntyre said:

 Nothing will be done until the Scottish electorate wakens up and votes the horrendous  SNP out of office.

Totally agree, but there is no credible alternative. 

This is the same reason that the Tories are still in power in Westminster.

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EIEIO
1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

Exactly my point.  I now work in the Haymarket area so do take public transport with no parking spaces for the ordinary worker.

 

Up until the end of last year I worked at the shore in Leith and public transport is shit from the other side of Edinburgh, so took the car and got there in less than half the time because I could pick a more direct route.

 

A lot of companies have workers who commute in from Fife, West Lothian, and sometimes as far as Glasgow.

 

Park and ride is no good when the transport options from the park and ride car park take you nowhere near where you need to work, and rail is fine if you work in the city centre or the Gyle - anywhere else and you are ****ed.

 

Companies may consider whether to relocate outside Edinburgh if this gets taken up here.

I worked at the Forestry Commission in Corstorphine Road, for too many years we had people driving to work every day from Corstorphine,  East Craig's even Roseburn FFS.  Also many other places within the city of Edinburgh. 

Lazy *******s will drive and clog up the streets if it does not cost them anything.

I currently live in Winchburgh which has a bus every 15 minutes to Edinburgh which is great except for the grid lock at kirkliston,  Newbridge,  Corstorphine etc for this reason people drive as it's more comfortable in their cars , less congestion some of them might choose public transport.

Several thousand more houses are in the pipeline for Winchburgh and Kirkliston so things will only get worse. The same is true for south queensferry, east calder , Broxburn and whitburn/heartlands to name only those towns to the west of Edinburgh where will these people park? This pattern also applies to east and Midlothian , this is why public transport needs to be prioritised over cars.

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stevie1874
On 19/06/2019 at 22:26, AlimOzturk said:

Councils should take a common sense approach to this. If over a certain miles away...maybe over ten miles no levy if under and deemed able to make it easily via public transport, cycling or waking then charge them. 

How about not charging Edinburgh residents whose council tax must be the highest in Scotland and charge commuters instead ?

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ri Alban
16 hours ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

The SNP are giving the council the rope to hang themselves though rather than introducing it themselves. The councils budget isn't sufficient so the government has given them a way to tax more people. It won't be politicians or the elite who will suffer it will be shift workers etc. 

 

I've voted SNP in most recent elections but this is another thing to make me look for an alternative. 

It's a green party policy, it's a trade off for the budget. Labour/Tory/Libdems could have negotiated for something they wanted, but as usual #SNPBAD.

 

 

 

 

I have to say, the brain melt of Frank Black the SNP is causing. 

:glorious:

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Pans Jambo
8 hours ago, Trapper John McIntyre said:

 

Got doubts?

About what? SNP are the only choice at present. The rest are just lapdogs of Westminster & thats a  complete basket case!

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frankblack
7 hours ago, EIEIO said:

I worked at the Forestry Commission in Corstorphine Road, for too many years we had people driving to work every day from Corstorphine,  East Craig's even Roseburn FFS.  Also many other places within the city of Edinburgh. 

Lazy *******s will drive and clog up the streets if it does not cost them anything.

I currently live in Winchburgh which has a bus every 15 minutes to Edinburgh which is great except for the grid lock at kirkliston,  Newbridge,  Corstorphine etc for this reason people drive as it's more comfortable in their cars , less congestion some of them might choose public transport.

Several thousand more houses are in the pipeline for Winchburgh and Kirkliston so things will only get worse. The same is true for south queensferry, east calder , Broxburn and whitburn/heartlands to name only those towns to the west of Edinburgh where will these people park? This pattern also applies to east and Midlothian , this is why public transport needs to be prioritised over cars.

 

You are right to an extent, and there is no excuse for some that should be using public transport, as I now do.

 

There are a few different issues though.

 

New builds at Cammo, Kirkliston etc are insane and should never have been approved as they are in heavily congested areas with limited and overstretched public transport.

 

Public transport in Edinburgh is poor going to the outskirts of the city with limited North to South routes.

 

The tram is a big white elephant losing money with no realistic prospect of being extended to other lines such as to the ERI.

 

I think reintroducing tolls on the bridges  and improving the Fife park and ride and rail services would be a sensible starting point.

 

 

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fabienleclerq
1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

It's a green party policy, it's a trade off for the budget. Labour/Tory/Libdems could have negotiated for something they wanted, but as usual #SNPBAD.

 

 

 

 

I have to say, the brain melt of Frank Black the SNP is causing. 

:glorious:

 

You know its folk like you that puts people off independence with your point blank refusal to criticise anything about the SNP or having a go at anyone that does. 

 

The SNP agreed to it in some shady deal to pass their budget, we all know this and it makes them responsible for it as well. You can't agree to something then try wash your hands of any responsibility for it. 

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The Real Maroonblood
9 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

You know its folk like you that puts people off independence with your point blank refusal to criticise anything about the SNP or having a go at anyone that does. 

 

The SNP agreed to it in some shady deal to pass their budget, we all know this and it makes them responsible for it as well. You can't agree to something then try wash your hands of any responsibility for it. 

You could say the same about unionists.

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fabienleclerq
6 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

You could say the same about unionists.

 

You could aye, are you insinuating I am one? 

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frankblack
1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

It's a green party policy, it's a trade off for the budget. Labour/Tory/Libdems could have negotiated for something they wanted, but as usual #SNPBAD.

 

 

 

 

I have to say, the brain melt of Frank Black the SNP is causing. 

:glorious:

 

Brain melt.  You would know all about having meltdowns on here, aussie_h. :rofl:

 

The cultists are trying to target me with personal abuse, but that shows their desperation not mine.

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The Real Maroonblood
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

You could aye, are you insinuating I am one? 

No.

Have a couple of mates who are pro union and waffle the same crap just like a few on here.

Edited by The Real Maroonblood

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theshed

Just charge the fifers to come over the bridge 

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Trapper John McIntyre
4 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

About what? SNP are the only choice at present. The rest are just lapdogs of Westminster & thats a  complete basket case!

 

So you would consider voting for someone else then?

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Trapper John McIntyre
3 hours ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

You could aye, are you insinuating I am one? 

 

The natives are revolting.

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Trapper John McIntyre
3 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

No.

Have a couple of mates who are pro union and waffle the same crap just like a few on here.

 You've got mates?

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Trapper John McIntyre
3 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Brain melt.  You would know all about having meltdowns on here, aussie_h. :rofl:

 

The cultists are trying to target me with personal abuse, but that shows their desperation not mine.

 

They're beginning to stir, Frank. Becoming restless.

 

And we've got the Salmond trial to come. Yum yum.

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The Real Maroonblood
10 minutes ago, Trapper John McIntyre said:

 You've got mates?

:lol:

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davemclaren
3 hours ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

You know its folk like you that puts people off independence with your point blank refusal to criticise anything about the SNP or having a go at anyone that does. 

 

The SNP agreed to it in some shady deal to pass their budget, we all know this and it makes them responsible for it as well. You can't agree to something then try wash your hands of any responsibility for it. 

They’ll be getting into bed with the Ulster Unionists next. ?

 

The Scottish Parliament was explicitly designed to always have a minority government, which means that, apart from the one time the SNP amazingly overcame that hurdle, every government has had to make compromises to get their budget through. Shady deals, as you term them, are a fact of the PR system. 

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Pans Jambo
39 minutes ago, Trapper John McIntyre said:

 

So you would consider voting for someone else then?

Yes I would but as I said, the SNP are the only show in town.

 

After Indy I think (& I have stated it many times on JKB) that the SNP will splinter and new parties will emerge.

 

Who knows what policies they will be offering. 

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XB52
5 hours ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

You know its folk like you that puts people off independence with your point blank refusal to criticise anything about the SNP or having a go at anyone that does. 

 

The SNP agreed to it in some shady deal to pass their budget, we all know this and it makes them responsible for it as well. You can't agree to something then try wash your hands of any responsibility for it. 

In what way is it shady?? It is called negotiation as the SNP don't have a majority at present. The unionist parties flat out refused to back the SNP in anyway shape or form so a deal had to be done with the greens. So blame the unionists 

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IronJambo

How would a parking levy work then? Pay as you park? I've got a permit to park at my workplace but only drive there half a dozen times a year when it's necessary. Don't think I'd be impressed if I had to pay an annual charge.

 

This of course is currently irrelevant to me in the South East of England.

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Dunks
1 hour ago, IronJambo said:

How would a parking levy work then? Pay as you park? I've got a permit to park at my workplace but only drive there half a dozen times a year when it's necessary. Don't think I'd be impressed if I had to pay an annual charge.

 

This of course is currently irrelevant to me in the South East of England.

 

It is up to each individual LA as to if they implement and indeed how. It is then up to individual organisations that are charged the tax as to how they meet the cost.

 

For example, a LA may decide to implement the tax on businesses with the required number of permanent spaces. The business may then decide to charge only those single occupancy cars i.e. encourage car sharing or something similar.

 

And it is very relevant to you as the powers have existed for english authorities for a number of years now :thumbsup:

 

 

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Brighton Jambo
On 20/06/2019 at 13:59, fabienleclerq said:

 

The SNP are giving the council the rope to hang themselves though rather than introducing it themselves. The councils budget isn't sufficient so the government has given them a way to tax more people. It won't be politicians or the elite who will suffer it will be shift workers etc. 

 

I've voted SNP in most recent elections but this is another thing to make me look for an alternative. 

This for me is the best post yet.  If this scheme had all the benefits that those above say then the SNP would implement across the board.  But they know it will be unpopular with business and employees so they pass the hard decision to the councils to make.

 

councils who are absolutely starved of cash due to this nonsense pander to the people council tax freeze and so will have no choice but to implement.

 

credit where its due its clever politics but its grubby and underhand at the same time.  

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fabienleclerq
16 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

This for me is the best post yet.  If this scheme had all the benefits that those above say then the SNP would implement across the board.  But they know it will be unpopular with business and employees so they pass the hard decision to the councils to make.

 

councils who are absolutely starved of cash due to this nonsense pander to the people council tax freeze and so will have no choice but to implement.

 

credit where its due its clever politics but its grubby and underhand at the same time.  

 

It's absolutely underhand and designed to look like it's nothing to do with them, even on this thread the "unionists" are getting the blame! 

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davemclaren
6 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

It's absolutely underhand and designed to look like it's nothing to do with them, even on this thread the "unionists" are getting the blame! 

Not sure how the unionists can be ‘blamed’ given it’s clearly a Green policy and they support independence. 

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Old Blue Eyes
Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, stevie1874 said:

How about not charging Edinburgh residents whose council tax must be the highest in Scotland and charge commuters instead ?

 

Charge commuters from outside the town to pay for what in the town? Improved Edinburgh public transport?

Edited by Old Blue Eyes

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IronJambo
2 hours ago, Dunks said:

 

It is up to each individual LA as to if they implement and indeed how. It is then up to individual organisations that are charged the tax as to how they meet the cost.

 

For example, a LA may decide to implement the tax on businesses with the required number of permanent spaces. The business may then decide to charge only those single occupancy cars i.e. encourage car sharing or something similar.

 

And it is very relevant to you as the powers have existed for english authorities for a number of years now :thumbsup:

 

 

It's irrelevant because nobody is speaking about introducing it.

 

It's also irrelevant because should it happen here I can just hand in my parking pass and get a taxi to work for free instead.

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stevie1874
3 hours ago, Old Blue Eyes said:

 

Charge commuters from outside the town to pay for what in the town? Improved Edinburgh public transport?

Yes, start with tolls at the Forth bridge then a charge for entering our fine City ??

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Nookie Bear
On 21/06/2019 at 09:15, theshed said:

Just charge the fifers to come over the bridge 

 

:sadrobbo:

 

For starters. 

 

(Actually, more companies should be locating in Fife)

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XB52
16 hours ago, IronJambo said:

It's irrelevant because nobody is speaking about introducing it.

 

It's also irrelevant because should it happen here I can just hand in my parking pass and get a taxi to work for free instead.

???? It's already in use in England

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XB52
18 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

This for me is the best post yet.  If this scheme had all the benefits that those above say then the SNP would implement across the board.  But they know it will be unpopular with business and employees so they pass the hard decision to the councils to make.

 

councils who are absolutely starved of cash due to this nonsense pander to the people council tax freeze and so will have no choice but to implement.

 

credit where its due its clever politics but its grubby and underhand at the same time.  

I take it you agree westminster is grubby and underhand then??

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IronJambo
23 minutes ago, XB52 said:

???? It's already in use in England

I don't pay a levy to park at work in London. 

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EIEIO
2 hours ago, IronJambo said:

I don't pay a levy to park at work in London. 

Nottingham uses it to subsidise their public transport. Not sure about any other cities.

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frankblack
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, EIEIO said:

Nottingham uses it to subsidise their public transport. Not sure about any other cities.

 

Edinburgh would need one hell of a charge to subsidise their debts on the existing trams project let alone any extensions.

 

I would expect they will be front of the queue to adopt this with their current congestion causing traffic measures.

Edited by frankblack

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